As a libertarian I hardly agree with anything Trump wants to do and I believe Hillary is probably a devil, if not THE devil.
How many of y'all think Trump is a straw-man created by the elites to make us think there's an actual election? I feel Trump is paving the way for a Clinton presidency and he's in on it.
Jeb woud have lost to Hillary, Trump has a far better chance than he had.
Same for Rubio and Cruz.
Bush conservatives don't win Pres elections anymore.
Far more likely that the RNC threw out Trump to try and shake things up and get out of the evangelical/compassionate conservative rut they've been in for decades. Their lack of any real official opposition to Trump plus their eventual warming to him is good evidence of that.
>Far more likely that the RNC threw out Trump to try and shake things up and get out of the evangelical/compassionate conservative rut they've been in for decades.
But the RNC did not throw out Trump. They had Trump shoved down their throats by the primary voters.
>2016
>believing in """(S)elections"""
>believing in left vs. right
One is a fascist, the other is a socialist. Two flavors of tyranny.
It seemed that way, sure.
But who's to say they weren't pretending?
Hil rigged the Dem primary, they could easily have rigged against Trump if they really wanted to.
I think Romney may have taught them something after all.
Nice shill post you faggot.
Trump will win easily. He isn't a plant, we've gone over this thousands of times with more competent shitposters.
>not agreeing with anything Trump says
>having an intellect
pick one.
I'm democrat and latino and i agreee with Trump too.
I'm no shill. My red-flags went up when he said he wanted to raise minimum wage to $10. And he's pro-cop/pro-military. I'm totally against BLM, but I'm not sucking government cock.
The differences seem cosmetic.
He wants to re-negotiate TTP. That's kind of doublespeak.
that's how the parties always were, the thing is democrats push for socialism but will end up making communist or dictator country while republicans will push more fascism but will probably make socialism or fascism.
We need the middle but I have not met a man alive who is good at that let alone gets people to follow him.
I think the opposite is true. Hillary Clinton is probably the only Dem candidate who could lose against Trump simply because of personal merits. Who's to say the globalists don't want Trump to win as part of their grand plan? With the recent and upcoming attacks on Clinton and the CF, Trump has virtually no chance of losing.
Politics is a game for immature children.
If you're truly an adult, you disregard it as such, and mind your own, more mature business.
As libertarian what exactly is it you disagree with Trump on? His respect for the Second Amendment? His intent to lower taxes? His intent to cut spending and lower the national debt? His unwillingness to get into a pointless war with Russia? His belief that education should be left to the states?
How come libertarians are so stupid? All they do is say stupid shit, day in, day out.
>He wants to re-negotiate TTP. That's kind of doublespeak.
His whole trade policy is about renegotiating trade deals. Trump is not anti-trade deals, he's just against the ones which aren't in our interest.
Also, the minimum wage raise is probably just a bone to the Bern victims. It won't actually do any harm, and he probably wouldn't do it anyway.
Well, unless you plan to form an army with the purpose of making all the "elites" and the "establishment" in their limp and dead forms, dangle from trees, then it is rather pointless.
Right now, we don't have many a choice.
Trump, a clown who can't keep his mouth shut, and someone who probably has no idea what he is doing, but we won't know for sure until he gets into office. But he seems to want to get us away from another NAFTA. As well as stopping the flood of toxic refugees that seem all to uninterested in being American, and more interested in changing our country into the shit-hole they left. He seems to back our civil rights, but has made some contradictory statements concerning internet freedom (the famous "close the internet" came to mind) . Is seemingly for the protection of the 2nd Amendment.
Or Hillary, someone who we know has a murder-on for our civil rights, someone who by all accounts is surrounded on a daily basis by very obvious corruption, and might well be a murderer. A literal mob-boss who wants to pursue more poking the bear (Russia), more arming and training of snackbars, and more meddling in a place that is already spreading cancer across the globe. Also, she plans to fill the Supreme court with more of her goons, and then she plans to implement open borders and legalize everyone who has already crossed, giving them access to the ballots and putting them on the same political plantation that blacks are on.
Did I mention that she will sign the TPP? You will have Merkel-levels of fuckery if she gets in.
Then there is a Johnson, who runs on an appealing platform of "leave me the fuck alone" but has chosen a running mate that totally contradicts lolbertarian values. He wants to still maintain he disastrous open borders policy, and he is more than likely a Hillary shill.
It's Trump, or we are fucked.
I can see that, but the media is sucking her cock, big time. Even Tim Cook of Apple is fundraising for her. Facebook, Google, reddit, etc, are all supporting her.
I scared of both.
He bought the Islamic terrorist meme. He's pro-military pro-police to an extreme. He wants to build a wall. He wants to kick out all immigrants.
Immigration isn't the issue. It's subsidizing the immigrants and paying them to come here is the tragedy. Natural immigration is great for liberty. People are free to leave and free to come and add to the economy.
When he says lower taxes, does it mean for a few people, his friends or everyone? Does he support second amendment or registration?
Read between the lines. I'm not voting Hillary. Never ever. But I'm careful about what Trump is really saying and advocating.
They both suck when it comes to the Constitution.
Trump doesn't know anything beyond amendment two, Hillary knows the Constitution but doesn't fucking care what it says.
>open borders policy
open borders is a libertarian ideal
the only reason why it sucks is the money that goes to immigrants and their welfare, including flying them here
undocument people are the ideal natural state of people
illegal aliens have more rights than we do because they are undocumented. that is where real freedom lies
we are all documented by government and their slaves
but it's difficult to market this idea to conservatives because it SOUNDS leftist
You have more questions than answers. You don't actually seem to know anything at all about this election. Typical libertarian. His tax plan is on his website, as is his immigration plan. As is his Second Amendment policy.
I'm sorry, but like virtually every libertarian I've ever come into contact with, you're just stupid and uninformed.
Well I only know what he says in interviews and debates. I will look at his website for more details.
I'm going to stay skeptical, no matter what the fuck you said. But I only like about 5% of his policy and 0% of hers.
That 95% can really fuck us over.
It's actually quite dangerous. We have an enormous amount of people who still love their home country but will abuse ours and cast us aside. We have "make America Mexico again" as an actual movement. There is no emphasis on assimilation.
As an aside though, the lolbertarian values I was talking about is that his running mate wants to fuck with the 2nd Amendment. Open borders is a libertarian ideal, but it a dangerous philosophy.
We are watching what "open borders" is doing to western Europe. Change demographics, changing politics, and even killing freedoms.
>(the famous "close the internet" came to mind) .
Dumbass. That was about closing off the internet in ISIS territory so they couldn't use it as a recruitment tool. Nothing to do with internet censorship.
As someone who has closely paid attention to this election for well over a year now, no. I guess libertarians don't do that.
>Their lack of any real official opposition to Trump
Immigration is the issue. In Latin America they vote socialist. Do you think those people coming here will be good for libertarians? America is one of the most libertarian countries, especially in our origin. But if it's filled with people who have no respect for that and don't believe it, it won't be that.
>As a libertarian
stopped reading there. Fuck off lmao
that open borders policy in europe is fucked not because of immigration, but because these countries were meddled with militarily and the elites are bussing them into those countries
natural immigration is good
unnatural immigration is bad. and it seems to be done by design to destroy their societies
if i was president, i would not support the immigrants. i would not give them a single penny. i would let the citizens defend themselves, but i would not have a policy against immigration. that in and of itself is totalitarian law that could be used against everyone. more laws=more tyranny
>elect libertarian
>open borders
>flooded with mexicunts
>crime stats go through the roof
>mexicunts will vote for gibsmedats as soon as humanly possible
>never have a libertarian in power again
>never have a conservative in power again
Not at all. If anything it's the other way around.
Clinton has worked for 30+ years to build her political career. Now Donald Trumo comes along and absolutely devastated her.
Trump has done more damage to her career and her personal reputation than anyone she has faced in the previous decades. He has ruined her.
The elites HATE Clinton. This is why she lost to a ONE TERM senator from the Midwest. She literally lost to a political nobody who went on to be a two term president.
The world has some serious problems right now. We need a tyrant. That's where Trump comes in. He has already won the election.
again, people confuse the freedom of movement between countries with something bad
i see it this way, when it gets full blown totalitarian, they'll use immigration to keep us in this prison
you tag those immigrants, you tag yourself
you clamp down on freedom, you'll get clamped by the same mechanics
it's simple
subsidizing immigration is fucking retarded
they wouldn't be here if we didn't give them all this free money and political protection
libertarians are literally the vegans of Sup Forums
>He wants to kick out all immigrants
Trump has no problems with immigrants as long as they come here LEGALLY.
More low carb than vegan
>LEGALLY
legal is doublespeak for government permission
immigration is fucked because the liberals subsidized it for 30+ years
1.cut off all subsidies
2.cut off political protection
3.and cut off minimum wage and get 100% employment that weeds out all immigrant competition
>I'm not a shill
>I'm actually this fucking stupid
liberal detected
Put it this way, you know for certain hillary is going to destroy america, but nobody really knows how a Don presidency could turn out, which means your best possible outcome is he reforms the republicans into an america first party and they nominate a constitutionally minded libertarian after his 8 years is up.
As it stands right now a vote for libertarians is a vote for hillary.
>Trump is a straw-man created by the elites to make us think there's an actual election?
Thats why china, syria, half the (globalist) repub party and the entire (globalist) democratic party hates him right?
this would be the only reason to vote for Trump and it seems very logical
and very scary. huge risk. i'm still not sure if i'm willing to take it. it's like asking for AIDS or for a syringe that has a question mark on it. at least trump supporters should understand this dilemma
>Hil rigged the Dem primary, they could easily have rigged against Trump if they really wanted to.
Exactly and there is proof she did no rpoof the repubs did please stop this WELL THEY DID SO THEY MUST HAVE made up logic.
>Trump is a fascist
Please explain
I side with libertarianism but I understand it's idealism rather than based in reality. It's something to aspire to and nothing more
extremely pro-military and pro-police to a fault creating a class of people that are elevated and celebrated above its citizens
very dangerous....but they are both statists and pro government, so there's little difference
>Trump doesn't go along with my particular set of political beliefs so he must be controlled opposition
Here's what you do, OP
Buy a gun while you still can
Then shoot yourself in the head.
You will never be of any worth to this world, ever
You're too stupid.
Why would you disagree with everything Trump proposes? This country is dying right now, and we've let it get so bad that it's going to take some drastic steps to save it. Trump is the only one talking about doing what needs to be done, while the globalist shills Hillary, Johnson, and Stein will keep driving this country off the cliff. Illegals need to be stopped. Terrorists hiding among Muslim immigrants need to be stopped. Shitty trade deals that destroy American workers need to be stopped. The rights guaranteed by our Constitution need to be preserved. There's a lot more that needs to be done eventually, but it needs to start somewhere, and Trump's the only one even mentioning starting the process.
it's a question, you retard
i have a healthy distrust of anyone wanting any position in government
i even had doubts about ron paul, though i went to his rallies and whatnot
I'm a libertarian voting Trump, it's amazing how many stupid libertarians can't realize how Trump wants to defend their first and second amendment rights (and all their other rights for that matter).
This is always the problem I encounter when I try to get my dad on the Trump train. He was a Ron Paul voter in 2012 and was very soured on elections because Ron Dropped out early. He's always been a bit of a conspiracy theorist, but now he thinks that the whole presidential election is bullshit and that Hillary was decided for president in 2016 8 years ago. He absolutely hates Hillary and likes a lot of the things Trump says, especially the fact that he doesn't take donor money and is hated by both party establishments and the media but he still thinks Trump is just a plant to make people feel like there is a choice. How do I convince him (and myself truly, I suppose) that Trump is for real?
Trump is NOT a socialist. But you are correct that Hillary is a fascist.
>I feel Trump is paving the way for a Clinton presidency and he's in on it.
This isn't a question.
What's you're doing is called back peddling, because some one called you out on how fucking stupid you sound
>creating a class of people that are elevated and celebrated above its citizens
what the fuck are you even talking about? it sounds like your describing illegal aliens.
>How many of y'all think Trump is a straw-man created by the elites to make us think there's an actual election?
How many of y'all think Trump is a straw-man created by the elites to make us think there's an actual election?
that's the quesiton
my feelings are doubts and healthy skepticism
i'm pretty sure I should not trust Trump nor Hillary
Like I said, it's a choice between AIDS and a syringe with a question mark, esp when i'm still relatively healthy at the moment
liberals want to elevate immigrants
conservatives want to elevate the military and police
over its citizens
both should be underneath, naturally
The "trump is a clinton plant" is a total meme. I will admit that in the beginning I thought it might be true, but there's no way at this point that he's doing all of this.
First of all, what exactly does he have to gain from throwing the election? His entire existence is about how WINNING and successful he is.
Second, Trump has been saying the same things for the past 30 fucking years. There's interviews with him from the 80s where he uses the exact same phrases like "China and Japan are ripping us off!"
He's not trying to be politically incorrect. That's just how he is. He's had tons of feuds in the media before. He's not acting any different.
Third, and the most important. Trump runs every election he can anyway. This is just the first time he's gotten traction because many americans believe this country is in the shitter. Also, he's not even "that" politically incorrect. It's just the Overton Window has shifted towards a more PC culture, so the backlash against what he's saying is so huge.
You dont, you learn from him.
he's very centrist as if that's a good thing.
he's gently pulling us to the left but hillary is raping us to the left
See, that's not even true either.
Both parties are already on the left. You think Mitt Romney was the bastion of fiscal conservatism? It's not new that the GOP puts up a RINO as their candidate.
And you might not want to hear this, but the GOP needs to be moved to the left, socially speaking. Bible thumping and hating on queers is monumentally detested by the public right now. The republicans really need to stop doing it.
I think that's just it. Trump doesn't come as a politician, he comes as a human fucking being and that terrifies people because of that perceived mold governing types are "supposed" to have.
This is also true. I remember from the 2004 election that one of the most important questions for voters was "which candidate would you rather have a beer with?" It's not surprising that Trump is so popular with the working class. He's kinda like Bill Clinton in a way, both are able to bring people in and feel good about themselves.
How is she owed anything?
>And you might not want to hear this, but the GOP needs to be moved to the left, socially speaking. Bible thumping and hating on queers is monumentally detested by the public right now. The republicans really need to stop doing it.
no one should pander to queers or bible thumpers (me being one).
there should be no hate crimes or any special interest rights, only private rights of the individual
>there should be no hate crimes or any special interest rights, only private rights of the individual
I totally agree. I started out this election supporting Rand, and I generally consider myself to be libertarian. But I'm gonna end up voting for Trump. Because between Trump and Clinton, Trump is the only one who MIGHT protect private rights and freedoms. I know Clinton will not.
Just look at the DNC. They spent the entire convention complaining about whites and males and white males and how oppressive and evil they are. That's what Hillary brings.
i'm not white
i don't support pandering to any race or creed or sex or any degeneracy
it really boils down to people vs government
i support freedom period
Like I said, I do need some convincing that the election is true as well. But as it stands, if it isn't completely falsified, than Trump is the best option right now by far. The problem with this argument that the election is bullshit is impossible to fight because you don't really know until after the fact. I'm going with my gut and voting Trump.
If you support freedom, then at the very least dont vote for Clinton.
The idea of a Bush vs Clinton "1992 part 2" really gets my fucking conspiracy boner going. America is run more like a family business than a democracy at this point. Might as well get Trump in there because at least he has a successful track record with his.