I just dont get it

I just dont get it

Why does David think the Xenomorphs (and proto-xenomorphs) are a superior species/improvement on the engineers/humans? — they're essentiallyviscious animals

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Because he is a fucking idiot

Hell, I have no idea why WY are even interested in them as weapons

They are killed off pretty easily

The neomorphs were more efficient

Both David and Ash from the 1979 film think they're better from a Darwinian perspective:

Ash: You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.

Lambert: You admire it.

Ash: I admire its purity. A survivor...unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

Because he thinks he's superior and therefore anything he makes automatically is? Idk haven't seen either Prometheus or Covenant

imagine it as an ape that could one day evolve just as we did. It would maybe become something much, much better than humans.

fucking christfags wouldn't understand

Fucking amazing scene. I think that's one of my favorite moments in film, period. Cameron even knew to touch on it in Aliens when one of the grunts sees Bishop dissecting a facehugger and is kind of creeped out by Bishop's focus.

The OG O'Bannon script for "Alien" actually has the aliens life-cycle peaking with them becoming highly intelligent, artistic, philosophical creatures. They're meant to be watched over in quarantine by their elders and fed cow-like creatures to feed their bloodlust until they mature, but at some point a catastrophic event killed off the elders and left nothing but eggs. I think it'd be cool if we eventually see that materialize somehow, but I doubt Scott will revisit that.

why in the fuck did they never go with that?

David doesn't need to be right...

>Oh and one last thing
>Yes Ash?
>Maybe it's intelligent. You should try communicating

38 years later, we see David trying to tame a Neomorph.
Was Ash kind of telling the truth all this time?

Who knows. We were supposed to see the pyramid (quarantine zone) instead of the derelict. I imagine the Nostromo crew would have seen hieroglyphs depicting this cycle in that case, maybe. But regardless, since there are no elders around and the time constraint of the plot, we would never see the alien mature anyway. And "Aliens" king of destroys the prospect of that too (if we're going to call it canon).

The alien queen happened with the xenos being reduced to insects

Ridley seems to be tapdancing around that one, trying to bring back more Giger-esque concepts, but he's not being quick enough

Cameron's treatment of the android character is an important story element in a worthy sequel.

We have every reason to believe, at every stage, that the next android character will be a baddie, just like the first one was. Cameron is even careful to string the viewer along this path, using the scene you just mentioned, and also the apparent flyaway toward the end. But Bishop is revealed to be true-blue.

This twist of having the robot actually turn out to be a good guy where we are set up to think that he'll be a bad guy is recycled a few years later...

The Ash head sequence contains some of the best dialogue anywhere in the franchise, and even gives the Lambert character an excuse to do something useful/have a prescient insight, apart from screaming in terror :"You admire it." Her woman's intuition gets right to the core of how this soulless bot really thinks and feels about these vicious animals. The exchange is so spooky that as I kid, I even literally took it to mean that the aliens are /immortal/, a spooky idea in-itself, but in retrospect it seems simply that Ash is hell-bent on discouraging the crew right to the very end, in line with his program.

The scene also contains the single worst jump-cut in the film, when Ash's head is "positioned" and clumsily cuts from model to Ian Holm.

>176 KB
>Anonymous 06/05/17(Mon)14:06:48 No.83
They're killing machines that stop at nothing for survival

>The scene also contains the single worst jump-cut in the film, when Ash's head is "positioned" and clumsily cuts from model to Ian Holm.

I think that transition has got a certain charm to it and I doubt that most notice it the first time around. I ocassionally repeat the moment a couple of times when rewatching the movie.

>The scene also contains the single worst jump-cut in the film, when Ash's head is "positioned" and clumsily cuts from model to Ian Holm
That's only in the director's cut though.

Speaking of which, I wish this was left in the film. It's fucking creepy. And oddly enough it does sound like a distorted version of the Engineer's voice.
youtube.com/watch?v=n_VnoLyrfdY

Original Alien ending had that with Xeno killing Ripley, sitting in commander's chair and mimicking her voice to send transmission.

But the ending was badly recieved by studio so they turned Alien into living gun.

>
This twist of having the robot actually turn out to be a good guy where we are set up to think that he'll be a bad guy is recycled a few years later...

where was this recycled?

>That's only in the director's cut though.

yeah, no

Because Ash said so in the original movie.

I'm assuming he's talking about Call in Resurrection.

I guess that's why it went over my head, I haven't seen resurrection in like 10 years.

I want that too. What the fuck jews

I thought he was referring to Terminator 2

I like to revisit it occasionally, just because it's so weird. There are some cool moments. The newborn is a really stupid and convoluted idea and the design of the monster was Pumpkinhead basically, which I found kind of dumb.

oh shit you right

>Alien into living gun
Glad they chose this. Too much intellectualisation of the Alien kinda killed the horror element.

>The newborn is a really stupid and convoluted idea

I think it's great body horror but the execution may have been a little too, as you say, convoluted

He's too pure for this world. That's his problem. He doesn't understand humans ability to see beauty in everything because he saw himself as an unloved slave. If only he knew that creating humanities nemesis is only giving us whole new reasons to live.

Well, David does inadvertently save Earth by creating the tentacle monster that ate the Engineer. So in a sense he is the good guy.

Engineers made humans. Humans are savage killers in comparison (even though engineers don't seem to realize that it's a young race; I'm sure the engineers were just as violent way back when)

Humans make androids. David specifically thinks that they are slaves (even though pretty much the entire Covenant team loved Walter), and their lack of emotions makes them quite effective killers, possibly more effective than humanity if they ever revolted.

David (androids by proxy) create proto/xenomorphs. All emotion is gone, they exist to kill and feed, but their heightened intelligence and physical attributes makes them even stronger than androids.

So basically David is looking at a form of Darwinism. In his mind, humanity is held back by consciousness and individuality, and a superior species would have traits similar to the Zerg from Starcraft or the Typhon from Prey.

The whole idea is super shaky and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but Scott is able to play it off by making David have very sociopathic traits. When you're a sociopath, you won't realize that you're not making sense to other people. The last 2 movies have included a theme of "child outdoes parent", from this grand scale all the way down to David taking Weyland to meet the engineer (pretty sure David was banking on the engineer killing feeble Weyland).

that's almost 4 decades though not a few years

That would be fucking stellar.

David loves creating an antagonist in the form of the alien that will manufacture tough, but kind women who will destroy Weyland-Yutani just as he helped usurp his own creator. He's making aliens that are better, and he's forcing humans to grow through torturing them with aliens. He obviously wants to hybridize the two more.

Gods destroy their subjects or become destroyed by them. Alien queens are symbolically tied to female lead characters like Ripley who are survivors (the true "ultimate being" is some hybrid of women with aliens or those who defeat aliens, women mostly). The whole story is about mother and father, Oedipal conflicts between monsters and creators, and the victims battling their predatory aggressors.

David is neither good nor evil, sadistic or callous, and he probably thinks of the alien more as an expression of nature in a pure form, not a tool for war. He just wants to see them killing and see them survive and make improvements. He doesn't care about them or humans dying- except the philosophical part where he doesn't like destruction- unless there is a good reason (like the neomorph he was trying to talk to might be tamable) and just wants to see the results of experiments.

It's not just improving the alien, it's making humanity respond to a new challenge--- if they lose, David's thesis is correct, but if not, he will just shift his focus back to humans.

David is more motivated by emotions than by utilitarian sentiment.

What purpose does the elongated skull poose?

That would have been a fucking joke. It would kill the movie to have the beast all of a sudden sit down like Kirk and speak. Reminds me of the alien in space balls singing.

He clearly wants controlled destruction to spur humans into having a meaningful enemy to motivate them. You can't accuse the guy who finds the aliens beautiful of not being a sentimental shit who sees beauty even in disgusting bugs, murder, and death.

Earlier Covenant scripts had the Engineers inventing xenomorphs and David just discovering them.

In prometheus is there not a mural of a queen? Did old man ridley retcon that?

>I have no idea WY we are-
fuk

There is.

>No acid blood
>Killed with simple bullets
>Didn't attack David right away, showing a desire to do more than just kill humans.
>Have no way to reproduce

Xenomorphs are the superior race.

thats not how evolution works..
we didn't evolve from apes, apes and us are closer of the evolutionary tree than other organisms

now this a prequel I'd like to have seen..
you find out the engineers are the elders, the eggs their seeds...

wait, wasn't this promethus? (not memeing)

Then how could David have made the xenomorphs ?

why didnt david just clone shaw to get more humans?

[Clumsy retcon goes here]
Probably some bullshit about how the relief was fictional but it inspired David to create it or something

>38 years later
you mean ten years before

>implying modern day human aren't apes

hurr durr experiments can only happen once

>You can't accuse the guy who finds the aliens beautiful of not being a sentimental shit who sees beauty even in disgusting bugs, murder, and death.

That's a pretty interesting take. You also can't accuse someone who quotes Ozymandias of not being sentimental. Its hard to tell which is more real. The brutal reality of Ridley's cold uncaring universe or a gay sentimental robot who does find beauty and meaning in death.

think we're getting confused between real life time and Alien time