Is there anything inherently wrong with being left wing?

is there anything inherently wrong with being left wing?

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Yes. Fear of emotional pain shouldn't be a political belief system.

That isn't an issue with being left wing, or even liberal. That is an issue with the individual.

Are we talking modern left wing or traditional left wing?

Because with modern left wingers, if your beliefs aren't dictated by a fear of emotional pain, then you're either a sheep or you don't care what left wingers do and disagree with the other side more.

traditional left wing, not these modern """"progressive"""" left

Something very insightful I heard the other day...

Leftists exaggerate 'bad' aspects of their own people i.e the west, whites whatever...

Leftists also downplay or whitewash 'bad' aspects of other people i.e anything not west, anything not white...

You can see this in really a surprising amount of arguments and talking points that come from the left. It can literally pop up anywhere.

So what can we conclude about the common psychology of these people that compels them to do this?

Maybe they are a political 5th column created over time by both sympathy on their side and psychological abuse (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session) on behave of previously aggrieved groups for the purpose of upending hiearchies and social structures of the west?

Then you're about freedom. Which is great, but is dangerous at the same time, because it creates a society that can easily be destabilized and crippled.
It can only exist if all people have good attitudes. All it takes is one jew to create chaos, or a few hundred savages to destroy the infrastructure of others, to cause society to collapse.

Freedom only works if all actors can be responsible with it.

at the same time, couldn't an authoritarian government also potentially destabilise and turn from authoritarian to totalitarian state?

Yes. Being a modern left winger indisputably means you're a collosal treasonous faggot.

Worldwide, the left is pretty much busted as fuck.

Just come right with us, man.

We have a war to wage against progressive utopians, because we didn't fight hard enough during the Cold War.

Leftwing is the "happy NOW" platform. Everyone wants gibmedats and a libertarian social climate where all forms of hedonistic degeneracy is encouraged.

Consume these processed fatty foods. Watch our media. Don't think, just have fun and we'll think for you.

Yeah, being a cuck.

Yeah, it means you have low self-esteem and want to take from the successful to improve your evolutionary fitness. They're all parasites.

Sure, that's why we need checks and balances obviously. But I think governments tend to change slower, especially authoritarian governments. They are less vulnerable to dramatic changes by small forces.

Interesting. Surprisingly regressive sjws tend to come from the upper middle class. Is this another form of attack on the rapidly dying middle class? Is the middle class under threat from a coordinated attack from fincial and global institutions in the form of free market theory and Marxist psyops?

If by wrong you mean incorrect, yes. Leftism puts emotions over the facts

A huge portion of Sup Forums will never admit this, but not inherently. Plenty of them are actually logical and disown a huge amount of the nonsense that Sup Forums keeps going on about.

BUT there is plenty of things wrong with a big portion of left wing individuals.

What has been wrong with the left wing of politics ever since Marx shat out his manifesto:

>caring about yourself more than others
>masking it with feigned compassion for suffering somewhere in whateverland. Oh those poor oppressed workers!
>and I

Leftists want to be considered a member of a group while all of their actions support other groups. The goal of this behavior is that whichever group wins in a conflict, the leftist will be on the winning side. It's a cowardly move rooted in their inferiority complex and fear of competition.

cool thread

isn't the thing though that today's right-wingers (myself included) are fiscal liberals?

sometimes in history, liberal and conservative values get mixed up together. and so it is that today, liberal sucks want all the immigration and social justice bullshit that makes their pathetic little hearts weep, but they want also want a big daddy government to cuck their shit up and regulate them up the ass.

meanwhile, true men and women want conservative social values for their kids to grow up in, but they also want a very liberal government to allow their family business to grow and prosper without excessive regulation.

so, today's right-winger has a bit of a liberal within himself, but liberal in a very based capitalistic sense

To an extent the modern right supports free markets but there's also a lot of anti-globalist sentiment.

You could call oldschool conservatives and fiscal liberals both on the right, the left has been defined by socialism for over 100 years

sure, if you don't mind going around being wrong all day

Even the good ones like Christopher Hitchens still fell for plenty of emotive bullshit though. Hell he quoted Marx all the time and thought that giving democracy to everyone would be just fine.

>The only cure for leftism is death.

It really is.

I disagree. Leftism is entirely driven by emotion, in all forms, whether it's Marxism, or modern "progressivism." Emotions like resentment, jealousy, and fear are the driving forces of left-wing politics and always have been.

>or

but what of non-progressive leftists? People like sargon, or or TL;DR; how are these people solely driven by emotions?

Ive tries to convert a few hard Lefty's in my time. But it only reinforces their resolve. I've tried reason based aguments, humor, facts and tried to convey my position from an emotional stand point. I swear the only way to convert a hard lefty would be with psyhdelic drugs that would temporarily remove ego. Then you could fact bomb them.

>Implying this board's entire philosophy isn't driven by resentment, jealousy and fear.

I'm a non-SJW liberal ask me anything.

Do you visit Sup Forums?
Do you witness how people defend Christianity to the bitter end while the pope fellates muslims on the street?

The process of rationalization is the same.

What does liberalism stand for in your mind then?

Leftism encourages submission instead of encouraging independence. This is the fundamental reason why it is harmful.

A balance between personal liberty and leftist ideas. Imagine if someone wanted Rand Paul, but wanted social democracy for their individual state.

I'm also fine with gays, trannies, whatever.

Liberty itself is fundamentally a leftist idea while authoritarianism is right wing.

Pope is Catholic, not Christian.

That's basically low-key libertarianism then, which is fundamentally incompatible with socialism; the defining ideology of leftism for a century

daily reminder that technically today's right wing parties are still left wing since they want democracy. True right wing is monarchism, fascism etc

No it's not. These things are far more nuanced than you imagine them to be.

You can want Rand Paul and like minded thinkers running Washington and social democracy in your individual state.

in what way is libertarianism incompatible with socialism?

but if we want to talk about modern political spectrums, then the right wing believes the best way to run society is from the top down, and left wing is the opposite, from the bottom up.

>Islam is a religion of peace
>white people are terrible because some of them owned slaves before any of us were alive

Yup, checks out.

True, but everything's relative.

>what is constitutional monarchy

i guess the question is, does a free market lead to globalism or not?

if we could have a world the way a hard-core social conservative and fiscal liberal would wish it to be, the patriotic, grass-roots, anti-globalist mindset of folks around the world would, in the end, force the free market away from globalism.

but now that i think of it, there's enough young people in my country that yearn for a world which they see on youtube vevo music videos, and who think that mohammed, ahmed, and basir are some of the most interesting people they've ever met. and it's up until this last point that i was a convinced libertarian..

is there nothing else i can do besides become a wealthy businessman, marry a white woman, and have many kids?

Nailed it.

Only liberty in the sense of being "free" from having to look after one's own life. Wasn't it Stalin who once asked how a man can be free unless he is provided with food, shelter, and such? Leftism has no interest in encouraging the individual to be independent of others or of the state (depending on which form you're talking about), its inherently collectivist.

well Catholicism is a strict subset of Christianity. And all variants of Christianity teach some form of "turn the other cheek, serve the outsider, be submissive"

Left wing liberalism is political idealism. It's not practical or pragmatic and is inherently risky when you're betting everyone future on the hope that your new way will have better results.

Protestants are the only decent Christians.

You seem to be completely unaware that the state is a tool of the people in functioning democracies.

You're acting like the state is inherently an overbearing and malevolent force. Also, liberty is a lot about civil liberties rather than whether or not your money goes to public schools and hospitals.

Personally I'd like free markets within borders, just not internationally and behind a very strict immigration policy.

Your point is interesting but with the media being a complete shitshow it couldn't happen in the current climate. Free markets lead to globalism because businessmen can push the narrative.

Your best bet is doing all those things as well as being politically active

On the other hand you are betting that there is no other or better way. I'd argue it's just as stupid. You have to find a middle ground.

The US was founded by liberal thinking men. They took a risk and it worked out.

If you dont try something different, nothing will ever get better

I think its better to risk it

not really, everyone starts out left wing because being left means you have a heart.

What's wrong is not transitioning from leftwing to right wing.

By all means a degree of socialism in economic policy is a good thing, the government needs to rein in the banks and Jews somehow, but on social points it's just natural and should happen for an individual, as he/she becomes wiser and more worldweary, to become more conservative, as its basically social conservatism that has kept the world turning, as conservatism is basically synonymous with common sense really, and common sense always prevails, whch is why Brexit happened and Trump will win in November.

depends on what you mean by left wing

You can't support a free market while opposing globalism, or vice versa. If I'm free to buy goods from or sell goods to whoever I damn well please, then why can't that include individuals and companies from other countries?

Socialism demands the subordination of an individuals rights to that of a collective (an ethnic group, a nation, whatever) Libertarianism asserts that the group or nation cannot demand this, and that the individual's rights, or at a minimum certain of those rights, take priority over what the group wishes.

Does it have that "turn the other cheek" bullshit? Because I stopped being a Christian as a teen when I realized that being a good little doormat like I was taught by my parents and church would get me nowhere.

By the way, my church identifies as non-denominational, and I still go because I live with my parents but I'm going to college soon so I won't really have to go back again.

its not because they assume socialism means force

>You can't support a free market while opposing globalism
You can, you can support it within your nation but with protectionist policy.
Politics are nuanced, and shouldn't be solved by unquestioning devotion to a single ideal regardless of the cost. Even the cost of that ideal.
That is why non-nationalist libertarianism is a failure, it's institution will spell out its doom.

>brexit happened because common sense

>in the same country that named a boat "boaty mcboatface"

user, I don't think you understand what common sense means.

...

ok for the last time, the USSR and China are NOT examples of communism, or leftism. They are perfect examples of how a popular movement get's taken over by corruption. TRUE communism doesn't have a state. It is based on people in a community working together to accomplish goals such as food shelter clothing etc.
The USSR was a dictatorship. China is a one-party democracy, effectively a dictatorship.

>inb4 fuck off communist
no i am not communist, i just come from a country where we don't have government forcing propaganda down our throats on this issue.

>decent
>christians

Pick one.

Fucking thank you.

Sup Forums doesn't realize it's not 1950 anymore and the cold war has been over for 25 fucking years.

If you want to indulge your cold war fantasy, go play Modern Warfare.

No true marxist gets used so much it might as well replace no true scotsman as the name for that fallacy.

you meant "not true capitalism"

I second this motion.

ITS NOT NATURAL. NOT EVEN ANIMALS DO THAT STUPID SHIT. THEY KNOW BETTER. THEY UNDERSTAND SURVIVAL.

Fucking causual, modern warefare implies..... modern not cold war. Play bops

If you think that social animals are individualistic you're flat out retarded. They live in groups, share and work together to achieve common goals.

If anything individualism is unnatural as fuck for a strongly social animal like humans.

Then you don't have a free market. You're saying "You can trade with who you like, but only within these arbitrary lines". You have a state intervening in the economy for solely political reasons - "we don't like that other nation, you can't trade with them"

TRUE communism is impossible because it depends on people being altruistic on a very large scale in the absence of coercion. Attempts to establish communism inherently devolve into dictatorships because the system only works if everyone complies. The moment some person or group decides to strive for their own benefit rather than that of the whole, the system collapses unless it is enforced at the point of a bayonet. Which means you have a dictatorship.

I agree whole-heartedly with you that it gets used too much, but there are examples of marxism and communism working as it's supposed to.
The problem is that none of them are country-sized, they are all little communes run by hippies stuck out in the backwoods of god-knows-where.
Aaaaand that's why I'm not communist, history shows that it just doesn't work on any kind of large scale.

I wouldn't argue being strictly skeptical or conservative is the best way to think or solve problems, but logic and reason are inherently conservative. We should be coming from conservative viewpoint that's proven itself already and not relying on hope/emotions over knowledge/experience. Especially for something as important as developing human culture.

see my other post, i agree

Animals also purge the weak and useless out of their packs by either killing or abandoning them or making sure they don't eat.

I'll agree with you there but Marx fully intended it to work on a country-wide and indeed planet-wide scale. So Marxism doesn't work at all and tribalism sort of works on a small scale.

When there is desperation due to lack of food and reosurces, a problem we don't have. I'm talking about social apes btw. I don't care what lions do.

fear and emotional pain is the basis of reactionary(conservative) politics

Bollocks. Natural conservatism wants to protect our culture and way of life. It's not fear, it's appreciation for what we have.

Fear of new ideas or methods is literally what drives conservatism.

one could equally say that the appeal to novelty fallacy is what drives progressivism.

Does not change what I said.

Conservatives adopt new ideas when they are proven to work. It's why they like states rights so much, because they act as environments for experimentation.

We just don't jump headlong into new ideas without thinking about the consequences.

Name me one forward thinking and novel conservative idea.

I just want all of yoy to quit knowing whats best for me and leave me the fuck alone.

There is no 'we' here. Stop telling me I'm in it.


t. Minarchist

Leftist blacks don't exaggerate the bad aspects of their own people

>it's a he doesn't understand how much of his existence and prosperity is a result of the society he lives in episode
>he thinks he's a man alone on an island

Cutting taxes to increase revenue

YOU STUPID FUCK HOW DID YOU FAIL THIS BAD? I NEVER IN MY LIFE SEEN A SQUIRREL FUCK A WHALE HAVE YOU DUMB BITCH? JESUS CHRIST ITS FUCKING AMATEUR HR AROUND HERE LATELY.

What in gods dick are you sperging about

The point is not that I see myself as 'alone on an island'. My prosperity comes from those around me because they desire the goods or services (labor, knowledge etc) that I possess and we come to a fair price on them. I do the same when I want some of their goods or services.

My irritation with conservatism (in the modern sense) is their constant effort to legislate morality which does not work.

My irritation with liberalism is the insistence that I just need all these programs and services so bad that I have to be forced under threat of death to pay for them.

If your service is so great, I will come pay for it. You dont have to force the money out of my pocket or force me to conform to your societal ideal (see Germany's persecution of families who homeschool). Otherwise, feel free to die off and reinvent yourself like any other failed business.

Just because Im not paying 60% of my paycheck in to the same pot as my neighbor doesnt mean I dislike them or dont want to work with them.

The modern right has been drifting further and further away from that.

Now it's mostly conservatarian, the biggest difference being between globalism and nationalism.

What if pooling resources and working together will result in a better place for all of us?

Also spread the word. Sup Forums, reddit, facebook, whatever, wherever you think you will have the most influence. You can create a dummy account if you don't want to compromise your identity.

Because at its fairest this operates as a democracy and youre giving the distribution and control of those resources to as little as 51% of us. At its worst, you give control of them to lawmakers who are more than likely paid for by the 'elites' that they rail against.

There is no 'best for all of us' because we are all too wildly different. This sort of attitude literally harms the diversity that the left seems to love so much.

I want my highways plowed in the winter, loose zoning laws that allow for new and experimental construction methods (earthbag etc), my kids to have options for school so they can learn best (probably will try homeschool; i failed consistently in public school but excelled in a home and charter school environment) and frankly I think its OK to die before 70 and I dont need an overburdensome healthcare system, despite myself working in healthcare!

The left varyingly wants the opposite of all that. Especially with schools; if the left had their way and I was forced in to public school, I would probably be a burger flipper at best.

Ia that really 'best' for 'all' of us? Certainly wouldnt have been for me.

I know what is best for me. Let me make that choice.

That said, my argument doesnt preclude the pooling of resources in a voluntaryist society.

I live on a several mile long public road. Despite the lack of a road association, those of us financially able all pitch in to maintain it. Two of us keep it plowed, two others keep sections graded, and when it ices up I have someone come sand it.

Ive also got several coworkers Ive traded eggs and produce with. They dont need a USDA sticker to know how healthy my free range hens are...in fact, not needing that sticker and the associated costs allows many free range producers around here to operate and provide far superior eggs within a local food movement, also helping our local economy.

But some elements of the left would say that choice should be illegal.