I'm a history student and in our current semester we are supposed to work on the history of the Levant, the rise of Islam and the effects of arabization of the ancient Levantine civilizations. This is great, because I always had an interest in middle eastern history. I'd like to get a discussion going by asking a few questions first.
1. How much has Islam changed since its very beginning? Do muslims from back then behave the same as they do today?
2. How did the Muslims behave when they came in contact with different religions and cultures?
3. How fast was the process of arabization? Egypt and Persia had their distinct cultures before the Caliphates conquests and I'd like to know how long it took them to be arabized
4. How much has the Arab language and writing changed? Do they remain largely the same as they were before? Also which Language is the closest to Arabic which still remains today?
5. How much did the Turkish dominance in the Levant, and especially the new mystic turkish sufism effect the arab tribes? And do arabs still have good relations with the Turks today?
My final and perhaps most important question would be, how do modern day muslims in secular or western countries behave? Are they still allinged with their faith or do they enjoy the luxury of a secular country?
1.it went through loads of changes mostly in mentality 2.depends on which caliphate ummayad lorded over them, abbasyd assymulated them, ottoman enslaved them 3. again depends on the region and the time of conquest, those who were taken in the Rasheideen era stayed almost the same though i'm not sure about thee rest 4.each country and area has it's own dilution of arabic and what they orginally spoke along with a few words from colonizers and so forth. as a language? both turkish and persian are very arabized though i'd say persian is a bit closer 5. they lasted 400 years and changed alot though sufism originated in the levant not turkey and they still exist today in closed communities and circles due to the wrongful accusation of heresy
the last question depends on the demogrphic and background
is that all my dear mehmet Von Waffenheimer?
Lucas Morgan
>history student
that's going to be very useful when you become a barista
Cameron Russell
Thank you for your input, how would you say arabs from today view the former Sultans? Do for example Gulf-Arabs honor Saladin or do they dislike him because he was a kurd?
Luke Jones
Not sure about the Gulfs but Saladin is pretty liked person in the Arab world. We sometimes say we wish we had another Saladin to free Jerusalem once again
Caleb Brooks
>We sometimes say we wish we had another Saladin to free Jerusalem once again One day user, one day.
Tyler Carter
I see. Aren't you from the Gulf?
Ethan Lewis
first of all salah-aldeen is half an arab who later identified openly as an arab and even if he had kurd genes he took them from an arabized parent
i do not know much about gulf arabs, i don't understand how they work yet but all islamic age leaders are idolized by the modern day arab from the mohhamed (pbuh) to ali rasheed pasha
Gabriel Rodriguez
I'm a Palestinian who lives in the UAE
Adrian Diaz
im yirtze hashem moshiach will come, aravim will be kicked out of eretz yisroel and the third beis hamikdash will be built omein omein
Jonathan Hall
yes arabs have an illness of worshiping ancient people
James Wilson
Do you hate jews?
Jeremiah Hill
...
Hudson Rivera
Nah I judge people by this charcter and action. Reilgion won't change anything
Brayden Long
everyone has idols literally everyone you are just self loathing
Gavin Jones
Why do so many people claim that he was a kurd then?
Are you a berber?
I was thinking about posting this om /his/, but my work requires me to do recent events as well and /his/ has some last 30 years rule no?
Jordan Brooks
Would you say that this kind of thinking is prelevant in the youth or are they still thinking the same way their elders do?
Luis Edwards
not as much as >us even people who worship idols aren't that obsessed of dead people like muslims >mah sahaba >mah tabi3in >mah tabi3i tabi3in >mah caliphs >mah moujahidin ..... No
Thomas Sanders
>We sometimes say we wish we had another Saladin to free Jerusalem once again OBSESSED
Kevin Wilson
Yeah it's always has been like this in human history. The new generation will be more open minded than the last
Ryder Cruz
kurds are famous in the 3 nations that surround them for nothing but banditry
i know turks think he was turkish and arabs think he is arabic everyone wants to take pride in his work
and the kurds specially because of the reason above who else do you want? >mah advanced first world takes modern celebrity shitbags and the others take mah jebas and decibels,kings and nobels
Ayden Jackson
OBESE
Jaxon Clark
Palestinians are converted Hebrews, or arab immigrants from other arab countries?
I am curious of this issue, and, what about Samaritans in the West Bank?
Levi Myers
>kurds are famous in the 3 nations that surround them for nothing but banditry weeew how dare people without a proper nation make trouble. >takes modern celebrity shitbags mena has that >mah jebas and decibels,kings and nobels lol only autists in neckbeard forums do that shit
Jack Ortiz
20 year rule but the mods don't really care it seems, as long as you don't start a thread literally about Trump
Easton Roberts
I am not a Muslim, but i have read some interesting things about the Islamization.
In Islam, there was some rules that actually gave some basic rights, such things like, a Muslim can't slave another Muslim. Other factor wide spoke on Sup Forums was the taxation of non Muslim living in Islamic countries that contribute to the mass conversion.
One of your cited sources could be the reason why the Russ (a tribe of Scandinavians that rule a insignificant amount of Slavs) chose the Greek Orthodox Church instead of Islam (which they drop because booze and some other factors). I record that have read it in one book, but definitely did not remember which one was that.
Good luck with your work.
Jaxson Turner
both
Jeremiah Jackson
each of those 3 nations have dozens of minorities what makes this one like that?
Eli Perry
because they are the biggest and strongest?
Leo Wright
>weeew how dare people without a proper nation make trouble. IDK m8, i really don't hate anyone, but kurds have a complex history of doing shit. Recently i was reading about Yazidis and Assyrians, and they also had century long problems related with kurds. Also, pretty much every ME (outside some countries that are full arab) had significant minorities, and you don't hear too much about them doing shit (pic related, some linguistic groups on Asia)
Jaxon Martin
see this alot of those groups have meme independence movements but they are too weak also yazidis are kurds
Sebastian Adams
>tunisia Do you feel Arab or Berber or Tunisian yourself?
Samuel Anderson
>also yazidis are kurds Are you sure about that?
Matthew Stewart
I feel numb The Yazidis, or Yezidis (/jəˈziːdiːz/ (About this sound listen) yə-ZEE-deez; Kurmanji Kurdish: Êzidî [eːzJˈdiː]), are a Kurdish and Arabic speaking distinct ethno-religious group[15][16][17][18][19][20] indigenous to a region of northern Mesopotamia (known natively as Ezidkhan) who are strictly endogamous.[21] Some sources claim that Yazidis are ethnicaly Kurds or Arabs. Also some Yazidis consider themselves as Kurds or Arabs.
Wyatt Carter
Literally anyone in real life will refer to them as arabs. Nobody refers to themselves using diaspora except memeing shitposters on Sup Forums.
Elijah Adams
Interesting, i tough they where some not related group of people.
So, why is there shit happening between those two groups?
Daniel Stewart
>Literally anyone in real life will refer to them as arabs. Nobody refers to themselves using diaspora except memeing shitposters on Sup Forums. not really dear diaspora, especially in morocco and Algeria , in Tunisia identifying as an arab is the most common one but there are berber larpers outside of Sup Forums too
Leo Williams
Ask the iraqi tho he will mostly be biased towards the kurds but i think that sunni kurds did kill in the pass so yazidis also they killed Assyrians under the order of ottomans
Sebastian Clark
Few days ago, an autistic Iraq Diaspora in Australia told me that to be arab, you need to be able to trace your paternal lineage directly to the original arab tribes. How accurate is this?
Josiah Thomas
Kurd is a yazidi embraced Islam ethnically they are the same and most kurds r secretly still into their repugnant satanic yazidi religion. I am against any religion based discrimination but yazidi cult is so disgusting and I seriously doubt people with such believes should be allowed.
Jonathan Ortiz
I just wonder why people claim that they are satan worshipers. The wikipedia article was pretty bias and only claim that they had a different approach of what looks like the early Christianity. Why do people hate them? >they killed Assyrians under the order of ottomans Why Ottomans would hate them? They did a had a significant Christian population until the end of the Ottoman empire.
Jaxon Barnes
In gulf countries yes, in other mena countries you can find some tribe autism but not as much as the gulfies
Jaxson Campbell
ottomans announced a holy war on Christians when france and uk became their enemies and they used Kurdish soldiers that were loyal to the Ottomans to kill Christians
Ryan Diaz
So, for most of the Arab world, being Arab is just a linguistic and cultural thing? Also, i know that "arab language" is not unified, but what about the written arab? Since the Quran was the most important book, i believe that the entire written arab was unified over it. Am I wrong?
Bentley Parker
>I just wonder why people claim that they are satan worshipers. The wikipedia article was pretty bias and only claim that they had a different approach of what looks like the early Christianity. Now kurds became somewhat fashionable because they fought ISIS and Saddam before and there is one gr8 part about their religion they believe you have to born into it and do not fours people to embrace it. So they are better than Muslims and even some christians but their actual religion makes one spew
Jaxon Lopez
And despite there are very few yazidis here in Russia they managed to earn very vile reputation of unruly criminals etc
Kevin Mitchell
yes written Arabic is unified and is called msa, msa is also used in news, official shit and even cartoon and anime dubs
Jaxson Sullivan
>but not as much as the gulfies
that's because of the people who are related to the king, royal family are usually given special privileges over the other people in the gulf.
Chase Ross
>and anime dubs Wait, what? I tough that the arab posters who talk about anime have only seen them by western influence (probably in English), i did not realize that it was so common at the point where a group of people sub them. Thanks for the insight in the arab culture, was really clarifier. Like what?
>Like what? There is a term Thief in law which is apparently a thing only in ex USSR/eastern Europe. Basically this is mafia but you can google it. And number of yazidis relevant to this is enormous compared to their presence in Russia.
Tyler Wilson
Kek.
What type of music do young people hear in arab countries?
Isaiah Lee
American hip hop, egyptian music and some khaleeji music.
>American hip hop Disgusting. >egyptian music and some khaleeji music What is like? nasheed?
Julian Harris
depends on what kind of egyptian music it is. there is the pop egyptian music that i linked you, then there is sha3by which sounds like your speakers taking a shit.
Pretty western... Looking at this, i really don't understand how some people that emigrate to Europe o America are having problems "integrating"...
Carter Nguyen
Because you guys take in refugees. Refugees are not exactly normal arabs nor do they really represent us in any way. Refugees are usually the rapists, the violent ones etc. The people who are arabs and come into your country legally usually have no trouble integrating.
Isaiah Howard
Hummm. Good point, some of those people are pŕobably just medieval goat farmers. The contrast between those different groups are so significant in the Arab world? Here in the new world, generally the rural folk are actually more civilized that the people living in favelas...
Jackson Harris
>persian It's called farsi, no?
Landon Brown
>The contrast between those different groups are so significant in the Arab world?
Yeah, the contrast can be pretty huge here in the middle east. Arabs can go from being illiterate sheep herders with a child wife, to a pretty educated person. The reason why this is is because education hasn't really covered everybody yet, but we're getting there.
>because education hasn't really covered everybody yet School is not enforced by law?
Thomas Richardson
it is , only old people are not educated especially in north africa because of fr*nce
Grayson Murphy
>Levant >Not a single Israeli flag itt
Juan Ramirez
What influence france does in your country educational politics?
Jackson Hughes
Israel isnt levantine The majority of the Jews there came from Eastern Europe, Iraq and North Africa.
Sebastian Rogers
kind of. if you're not going to school, then you must be working some kind of job. however it's not that hard to get a job as an illiterate person here, we have many ethiopians here in qatar that cannot read or write and work as maids etc. usually the illiterate people get relegated to shitty jobs like these. the locals though are an exception, and are given handouts similar to welfare to help them out.
north africa and the gulf are nothing like each other bro.
Julian Brooks
well first i will talk about the kinda low literacy rates in Maghreb , they are unironically caused by France as education under their rule was paid and not free and was almost totally in french. Current influence of french in our modern education system is huge because our rulers are massive cucks to france, we study french from 3rd grade, we study stem subjects in high school in French, we have a baccalaureate system similar to the French one ( just harder and outdated) and we have the same French style engineering preparatory schools. My dream is to become a politician here and destroy all french influence in this shithole.
Gabriel Morales
French is developed in all those educational fields though, which language do you replace it with?
Jackson Turner
english and their system is objectively worse than the Anglo Saxon system, german system, and Nordic system
John Carter
Levant was the home of civilization before ar*b subhumans (Palestinians) came
Nathaniel Rodriguez
ahh ummayads did alot of great stuff in the levant
French is not really that useful in the world now days, to be honest, none of the Latin languages are.
Camden Nelson
No it actually didn't if you study history properly.
Evan Howard
9anas is great but I like the ones that hype me up
James Harris
Then explain to me why philistwas mentioned so many times in the bible?
Tyler Martinez
after romans kicked out da joos out of judea, they called it palestine
Sebastian Garcia
Not a specialist in the field of ME history, but some of the Palestinian cities where already big during the greek rule. Also, the word (greek/latin) Palestine seems to be related to the Philistia, and the people who live there philistines.
Ethan Jackson
Palestinians are Arabs DNA proves this they come from the land of the Arabian peninsula
Robert Martin
>What type of music do young people hear in arab countries?
did you get that source from your ass? only 10% of Palestinians came from the Arabia
Eli Walker
>1. How much has Islam changed since its very beginning? Do muslims from back then behave the same as they do today? It has changed and they behave differently
>2. How did the Muslims behave when they came in contact with different religions and cultures? Differently depending on the time and place but if you mean the original muslim expansions in the Levant then the modus operandi was usually to conquer the army, set up a camp for the Muslim army outside the local city and to send tax collectors into the city to collect Jizya. They didn't like to mix or talk to the locals at all.
>3. How fast was the process of arabization? Not fast. Syria remained majority Aramaic and Christian for centuries, Persia remained largely Zoroastrian and almost kicked out the muslims a few centuries later. Same for Egypt.
>4. How much has the Arab language and writing changed? Do they remain largely the same as they were before? Arabic local dialects have changed a lot, but most Arabs also know standard Arabic to some degree, which is quite close to Qur'anic Arabic.
>5. How much did the Turkish dominance in the Levant, and especially the new mystic turkish sufism effect the arab tribes? And do arabs still have good relations with the Turks today? It affected them but Sufism predates Turkish dominance by a couple of centuries. Ottoman politics had a tendency to play favourites with the tribes and sects of the Levant and this policy had a huge effect on the region
Asher Howard
Land that should be split between Israel and Turkey
Nathaniel Torres
>Because you guys take in refugees. Refugees are not exactly normal arabs nor do they really represent us in any way. Refugees are usually the rapists, the violent ones etc. The people who are arabs and come into your country legally usually have no trouble integrating. That's bullshit t. expert. Syrians are one of the most peaceful Arab groups. Nafris are responsible for most of the crime and shit
Isaac King
Fuck off back to r*ddit before you make another edgy comment like this expecting to get upvotes you faggot.
Anthony Murphy
>syrians are peaceful maybe the نصيريين syrianimals here are far from peaceful
Brandon Brooks
Farsi is Persian in Persian. It's like saying "My Deutsch isn't that bad", but for some reason some people use Farsi in English anyways.
Kayden Richardson
They are indistinguishable from lebs.
Angel Murphy
Tbh I get where he is coming from Syrians in Lebanon are utterly shit ;___; Not saying lebanese diaspora in australia and the likes are any better though...
Robert Morgan
to a european maybe my nose can pick off their stench hundreds of meters away, and i can easily identify them by their greasy slickered back jet black cockroach hair and their ripped sandals
Nicholas Collins
>my nose can pick off their stench hundreds of meters away, and i can easily identify them by their greasy slickered back jet black cockroach hair and their ripped sandals sounds like a leb
>Syrians in Lebanon are utterly shit ;___; the ones I met were nice and friendly, whereas the native lebs were all cunts
Jordan Scott
Are you a Syrian refugee? Lebs and syrians are equally shit desu.
Hunter Baker
sunnigger refugee animal detected *spits*
John Flores
1. Im Maronite so not sure 2. 3. depends, some places went faster than others 4. a lot. we all can write and read the standard arabic, but for example Lebanese (me) speak arabic that the falasteenis and sooris can understand (mostly). khaleejis (gulf people) speak different from us too. persian is closer 5. turks changed a bunch of stuff, but sufisim isnt from turkey
it depends on the region and their upbringing, i suppose, again i wouldnt know, im maronite
