Remember when feminism was equally as heavy-handed as it is today, but the story was so good you didn't care?

remember when feminism was equally as heavy-handed as it is today, but the story was so good you didn't care?

fuck, mulan was awesome.

i mean we know the media has never understood the word "subtle" but why can't they at least propagate their shit in an entertaining way anymore?

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youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64
youtube.com/watch?v=eGMN-gNfdaY
youtube.com/watch?v=iEInZnbXHCE
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I really need to get around to watching Mulan 2. I heard the plot is comically bad and its Extremely Goofy Movie tier in terms of dank reaction images

never watched it either. fuck it, that's what kickass is for, downloading

>bait
I know but let's get this out of the way in the first post
>Mulan is an ancient story, not a new age story
>Her motivation wasn't to prove girls can fight, it was to save her father from being drafted
>She wasn't supposed to be stronger than the men, she just played her strengths, which was being clever, and it makes sense for her to be smart since her family was well off
She was just a likeable and selfless character

>I really need to get around to watching Mulan 2.

No you don't.

>I heard the plot is comically bad

No, it's worse.

>and its Extremely Goofy Movie tier in terms of dank reaction images

Yeah, can't disagree with that part.

>remember when feminism was equally as heavy-handed as it is today, but the story was so good you didn't care?

The fundamental difference was that Mulan didn't bad mouth any of the men in the camp just because they were men

>>Her motivation wasn't to prove girls can fight, it was to save her father from being drafted

Not entirely true. That was the catalyst but her real motivation was to gain self respect

oh well excuse the shit out of me for not being familiar with ancient chinese folktales. the rest of your post is your personal interpretation of events.

"one man may see an image, and call it black. another may see the same image, and call it white"-

>mulan was a feminist movie
I'm just gonna point you over to this guy Let's just post songs, shall we?
youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64

>She wasn't supposed to be stronger than the men
So...feminism. The actual definition, not the Sup Forumsack definition.

>oh well excuse the shit out of me for not being familiar with ancient chinese folktales
But that was her entire motivation in the film, dummy.

How would Mulan look today?

Shit some animator needs to make 2016 Mulan

Her comrades are all amazed and perplexed.
Traveling together for twelve years
They didn't know Mu-lan was a girl.
"The he-hare's feet go hop and skip,
The she-hare's eyes are muddled and fuddled.
Two hares running side by side close to the ground,
How can they tell if I am he or she?"

-- Poem of Mulan, written btw. 386 and 533 A.D., China

That modern Western feminism, right?

And yet it does more for female empowerment than "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW INDEPENDENT AND TOUGH I AM. I HAVE A VAGINA!"

A character that solely exists to propagate a specific worldview is always shit and boring. And what's even worse is when they reduce a pre-existing character to author mouthpiece.

That's why I can't stand the way modern comics are written. Zero subtext, and they derail the entire narrative to wag a finger at the audience and go "Racism/sexism/homophobia is bad, m'kay." or some other self evident bullshit. And for what purpose? To score brownie points with the fucking barista, that makes your soy latte?
TELL A FUCKING STORY!

Mulan is a good example of a message being coupled with a character and story without it hampering or drowning out either. But I guess that was in a time before tumblr.

/thread

to be fair though man, you haven't seen my barista. she is smokin'

You don't even know what you are talking about. You are just an idiot who can't pick on story and character cues.

FUCK! Forget that. I AM the idiot, I misread the first line.

why are they always like that? it's almost like starbucks has some kind of agenda

can we shelve the feminism talk for a second to discuss how hot the girls who make out coffee are?

See, this is the difference between 2nd-wave and 3rd-wave feminism.
Mulan came out when feminists demanded respect and equal rights for women and wanted female characters to be shown as equal to men, not the same as.
Right now the 3rd wave demands legal supremacy and pity-points from society, which to cash in for advantages as needed. They want female characters to absolutely perfect and beyond reproach from men, but God help you if you dare find such a goddess sexy!

If you actually look at what happens, the movie is surprisingly enough holding true to Confucian doctrine. Which is why she does not take a high office at court but goes home to care for her father. Because that is what was regarded the virtuous thing to do. Note that a guy would have been expected to do the same. At least in the eyes of Confucian teaching.

LETS GET DOWN TO BUSINESS

The quality of the story is irreverent at this point. The Internet is so radically politicised that the story actually being good or bad is secondary to the politics around it.

If Disney released Mulan exactly as it was today, you would have Sup Forums retards screaming about how its evil feminist propaganda and anyone who dislike it was a cuck a you'd have Tumblr screaming about how she's still defined by her romance to a man at the end and how its all dirty cis scum bullshit, along with a thousand thinkpieces about her being used as a trans ally.

I know Sup Forums and especially Sup Forums likes to think they they care more about the quality of something then then the gender or racial politics but that's blatant bullshit. The Internet itself has been mutated to the point that only the loudest voices on either side can be heard.

youtube.com/watch?v=eGMN-gNfdaY

I so hate that i see your point...

Before it was tumblr is was Gaia forums, live journal, MySpace, what have you. This will never be new.

it's true but you can't deny that the quality of "feminist" media has taken a nosedive in the past few years

Did people yell that Zootopia was feminist propaganda on here? I avoided all the threads because I didn't watch it.

Mulan is a steeped in ancient Chinese sensibilities, though.
Her motivation is filial piety, a core doctrine of Confucianism.
Disney just painted over any notions too at odds with modern ideals.
Except that she basically goes back to the fucking kitchen in the end which is baffling from a modern viewpoint.

You are a gentleman and a scholar. I don't think I've ever seen a post on this god forsaken site worded so well.

>fuck, mulan was awesome.

More like China was hilariously shit-tier in it.
>An avalanch kills all the mooks in the Mongol army
>the surviving five or six face characters still successfully besiege Beijing, army can't do shit until chinese face characters show up

once you defeat Shan Yu(Genghis/Kublai Khan) you ain't got shit to prove, son. she can be in the kitchen if she wants

Nah, tumblr would be upset that they took a lesbian with a beautiful mixed romance and made her into a dirty cishet who can only love her own race.

No, they just went right to the race war allegory. And shipping.
But it's basically similar to Mulan in that it has a message of working with what you have to get what you want, judging people by their deeds, not their looks, etc.
I am just surprised that tumblr tarts don't catch on to the many points it makes against their ideology. Which just shows how little they care for it when they can't make it a weapon.

Nah, they yelled about it being Furry Propaganda.

With the recent stuff with Pidge from Voltron I'm sure tumblr would be convinced that Mulan was a man all along, and was a MtF that was living his life as a woman and fought in the army to prove that a transperson could fight in the ancient chinese army.

>No, they just went right to the race war allegory. And shipping.
Not surprising, as the race stuff was pretty prominent though I also see it as a bit of a class thing too.

This is also not surprising.

She saved China, she has every right to do whatever she wants.

Though in IRL, it's been told that she killed herself after the new emperor wanted to make her his concubine.

Sure, but that's less to do about actual feminism and more to do about trends. Being inclusionary to a fault is the hot new trend like Nolan-esaue gritty angst was five years ago and over-the-top masculinity was in the 90's.

Like all trends, it'll pass in a few years.

I never saw it, but people were too busy jerking off to the bunny to talk about gender politics in the threads that I saw.

Actually now that I think about it it would be even worse, because ever since The Force Awakens we have the fresh new meme of every hyper-competent female character being instantly labelled as a Mary Sue.

So you would have ten thousand "Mulan is a Mary Sue" threads with the OP image being the webm of Mulan flicking the sword out of Shan Yu's hand with the fan.

It wasn't "feminism" because it didn't try to suggest that every woman can or should be like her, it was just a story about one particular extraordinary woman.

Sure, but from a Western perspective you would expect her to serve the state in some fashion and get her father to come to the capital, not go make sammiches which she is now far overqualified for.

i did like how the anit-stereotype movie was filled with southern rednecks, donut eating incompetent cops, actually sneaky weasels, actually slow sloths, actually cunning foxes, etc.

STEREOTYPES ARE TRUE PEOPLE, THEY'RE TRUUUUUE
some things are just too poerful for progess

>Except that she basically goes back to the fucking kitchen in the end which is baffling from a modern viewpoint.
Feminism is about allowing Women to have every right that Men have. If she wanted to go back to the kitchen, then that's her choice. In the movie, at least, she never wanted to go to war or any shit like that, she did it because her dad had a snowball's chance in hell of living through a single battle with the Huns.

>southern rednecks
Who turned out to be a good person.
>donut eating incompetent cops
But he's also a sweet guy.
>actually sneaky weasels
Nothing to say there.
>actually slow sloths
Flash tho.
>actually cunning foxes
Yes, but he became a cop.

I see your argument, and I agree that there's definitely more divisiveness, but I disagree with the core thesis, particularly the dualisim. Particularly pre release, you will absolutely see shitflinging, but over time, other aspects, like quality and rule 34 become more important.

Stephen universe, Ms Marvel, Miles Spiderman got a lot of very contentious screaming threads, particularly early on, but eventually settled down. The first two are regarded fairly highly by Sup Forums, and miles is mixed but generaly at least "ok"..

There were Sup Forums smokers early, but they quieted down very quickly. They were more focused on the race riot. Oh, and furries. I lurk trash and you could literally sense the great sphincter of the super dedicated release on that one.

If there's one thing I'm reminded of, watching the last 9 months or so unfold, is to not underestimate the power of memes.

>An entire musical sequence of a man beating combat and survival skills into a woman
Nah, I don't think so. But then, if Mulan was released today, that whole section would be skipped since she would take to combat within the first few minutes and show up all the silly boys with a smug grin on her face, single eyebrow raised.

In theory. But a character has no choice. The writer makes the choice.
So anything not MAXIMUM EMPOWERING can and will be bitched over.
And you make the mistake to assume the point of feminism hasn't changed in the last years. It's no longer about equality, but about bankrolling an outrage-machine.

It was though. You can't deceive me, furfag!

true. girl power characters are mary sueish these days

But aren't sloths really slow tho?

>we have the fresh new meme
Dude, this has been a thing since many years before TFA
For that matter, Rey was a total mary sue

Yeah, but they are a joke about a broken system, not a statement about sloths.
And Flash is actually speeding something fierce.

sure, but just because something is true doesn't mean it's not racist. it's 2016

>Except that she basically goes back to the fucking kitchen in the end which is baffling from a modern viewpoint.

She doesn't go back to the kitchen so much in the original as just eventually returns to the more simple argricultural life both men and woman lived after her fighting for over a decade (15 yrs?),,,as did the male warriors as well, eventually. You can't lead that life forever, man or woman.

Ironically the original was much more feminist and so-called "progressive" than that Disney crap (cute songs and good villain though). 1,500 years later...

Lucky you. The one that is after my dick is someone I would want to avoid.

The west needs to stop thinking all fullfilment is linked to escalating the oligarch's staircase to nowhere.

Mulan made out all the men to be idiots for a majority of the movie. Only in the end when they literally become women do they become useful in fighting the mongols

>baristas

east/west coast metrosexual loons

it's a person that pours coffee. the coffee should be black. the end.

for some inexplicable reason, they're actually the huns. guess because the mongols are still around and could get offended

>Ironically the original was much more feminist

You mean the story of how the daughter of a family of foreign fighter/colonists living in a recently conquered land disguises herself as a male so that their king won't disenfranchise her household for its inability to perform their milita duty?

Clearly feminist as fuck that one, yes.

They were last minute draftees formed during a desperate war. Of course they were a motley band of fucktards.

Uh yes, how is that not feminist? She performs her duty to her family and fulfills her role to fight as a man would do. The original poem ends on the note that the difference between male and female is not clear, hence a message of general equality. In the year 400 or so, as has popped up at times since writing began (the first known author was a Mesopotamian woman writing about her political troubles).

Original feminism is just about the general equality of the sexes, nothing more.

#rememberwhenfeminismmadesense
#1500yearsago

Nothing is subtle anymore. People are too busy on their phones to not notice anything that isn't slapping them in the face.

Early 1900s.

youtube.com/watch?v=iEInZnbXHCE

> She wasn't supposed to be stronger than the men

Except for during the training montage where it was shown that she outdid every guy in training after getting the arrow?

the other guys were two fatties and a skinny 4channer. she never outdid the hunky guy

Except you also see Ling, Yao and Chien Po doing the same.

There were other normal background characters shown there aside from the comic relief guys.

> she never outdid the hunky guy

Yes she did, she was shown running ahead of the entire group including him when they were carrying weights, and she knocked him down while they were sparring.

Uh the point of the video is the rich asshole is a huge classist dick, the poor women is working her ass off to support her family because she's poor and she has to work all the goddamn time, the rich guy can sit on his ass and read about this shit and spew his opinions everywhere all damn day. Way to totally misread the scene. Points to him to to humiliate people living in poverty for his amusement, Nucky is uncomfortable because that's exactly where he same from.

Only the fat one was shown leading the group when they were jumping over the water poles.

Point is Mulan was shown being directly better than the other guys there even though she's a woman and of a pretty small build.

Fuck why could they use this cover for the Blu Ray?

is was posting it as comedy sis, relax. i'm all for female empowerment trust me, you should see my porn folder.

Sup Forums - Politics

when the comics (M A R V E L) bring the politics to us, why not?

...

i have no complaints against that. i read that issue. the guy in question is a lunatic who though a pop-star(let thst sin in, a pop-star-we all know how pop-stars become pop-stars) was some virginal deific girl that would be "tainted" by appearing in a fucking boxing movie. MANSPLAINING rambling ensues, says a man

>Uh yes, how is that not feminist?

Because it's steppe people we're talking about, the sort of folks who have a history of not confirming to settled folks' norms on anything, inculding the issue of murdering family members. Plus in her context, it was a class issue. Their family was part of a class who got land and access to political institutions in return for military service, but the state didn't even particularily care who rendered that service as long as somebody showed up and shot arrows at somebody else on command. Were it a gender issue, her being a war hero wouldn't have done shit for her family because they ultimately still did not send a male.

Mulan came out during third wave feminism.

Watch yourselves, the Hillary shills might be attracted to here.

Stop shit posting

>Mulan made out all the men to be idiots for a majority of the movie.

Only the three comic relief and the eunuch. Not her dad, Chang, his dad or the Emperor.

Chang doesn't dress as a woman not is he made to be an idiot during the plot.

Mulan was clearly a feminist movie, just the kind that existed before the perverse corruption that calls itself feminism today

I won't sugarcoat it, I watched Mulan 2 and I think it is great. The simple artstyle works wonders, since the sequel doesn't seem low budget. The characters are still funny.

The plot is boring and unimaginative though and everyone is stupid and has no understanding of the situation beyond immediate future. And as far as I remember the whole thing could've been easily avoided with a short conversation, this is never an acceptable excuse for a whole movie.

Feminism has always been shit
ALWAYS

I doubt it's Sup Forumsack who make angry tweets when women are even implied to be weaker than men.

>Chang doesn't dress as a woman

Damn shame.

>Death battle did an analysis on her
If Mulan get's into a death battle, which cross dresser should she fight?

Lady Oscar

Mulan isn't heavy handed feminism, it just teaches kids that females don't always have to be dainty limp-wristed bitches.

Mulan would lose so hard.
I mean, a French noblewoman of the 18th century, trained like man all her life and living as a soldier VS an 11th century Chinese official's daughter with basic weapons training and fitness.
Without plot armor, the froguette takes this easily she has guns, ffs.

I loved Mulan as kid, but when I saw the sequel I just straight up thought they fucked up her character. It's been forever since I saw it, I just don't want to see it again.
Also this plus Ouran High School gave me a reverse trap kink.

Before or after they turn Mulan into a 'man'? Before: of course she's no match.
After: Lady Oscar would a more even match and portable rocket launcher + Bow and Arrow used by skilled archer >>>>>>>>>>smooth bore fire arms.

>one particular extraordinary woman
But women are a collective now, didn't you know?

Every single female character is a representative of the entire female gender.

Is every person who shoots a gun at an enemy soldier qualified for a government position?

She lived through a war, that doesn't mean she should start dictating national affairs.

>soldier qualified for a government position?
If you listen to what military types say then yes but I think they may be a bit bias.

feminist at the time hated it though.