Marvel Is Losing Ground To DC

ign.com/articles/2016/06/17/between-the-panels-marvel-is-losing-ground-to-dc

>I've always gravitated toward Marvel's heroes first and foremost. It was the X-Men (both in comic book and animated form) who sparked my original transition from casual superhero fan to full-fledged comic book geek in the early '90s. And when I returned to the fold after a long absence, books like Ultimate Spider-Man and New X-Men were as responsible as anything for reigniting my love of comics. Even as I've gained a love and appreciation of the many non-superhero comics the medium has to offer, Marvel has always been a crucial part of this hobby.

>That's why it's so strange to come to terms with the fact that my interest in Marvel's comic book output is at a 15-year low these days. There are still current Marvel books I enjoy (All-New Wolverine and Vision being the two standouts), but my overall enthusiasm for the company and its general direction is sorely lacking in 2016. It's hard not to look back on the past 12 months and feel that Marvel peaked with Secret Wars. And on the flip side, I currently find myself more excited for the future of DC than I have in years. One company is losing me even as the other one is hooking me all over again. The balance of power is shifting.

>With Marvel, there's a sense of diminishing returns when it comes to the company's perpetual cycle of big relaunches followed by major event crossovers followed by big relaunches. Recent monthly sales reports seem to bear this out, with many current Marvel titles selling lower and dropping faster than their 2015 equivalents. There are a number of trends to be gleaned from these sales figures, but speaking solely from my own perspective as a reader, I don't feel enthused about the state of the All-New, All-Different Marvel Universe in the same way I did the original Marvel NOW in 2012 or the Heroic Age-era Marvel in 2010 or the post-Avengers Disassembled Marvel in 2005. The fact that this year's post-Civil War II relaunch is simply recycling the "Marvel NOW" name does nothing to decrease the "been there, done that" sensation.

>Relaunch apathy aside, Marvel has a larger problem when it comes to the state of its major franchises. Of the four main pillars of the Marvel Universe (Spider-Man, Avengers, X-Men and Fantastic Four), only the first is in a particularly strong place right now. Both the Avengers and X-Men books seem to be undergoing similar post-Secret Wars identity crises, while the Fantastic Four franchise, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist anymore. The clear sense of purpose and editorial direction that in years past propelled Marvel's heroes from Civil War to Secret Invasion to Dark Reign is no longer apparent. That's to say nothing of Marvel ongoing talent problem. They have yet to really recover from the loss of so many key creators over the past couple years (Matt Fraction, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Jonathan Hickman, Rick Remender and now Kieron Gillen). I honestly wonder how Marvel would cope if Jason Aaron or Brian Michael Bendis decided to follow their peers and focus entirely on creator-owned projects.

>IGN
>balance of power is shifting
>but sales aren't
lmao ok but I do hope that DC gets more sales and panders even harder to the Harley Quinn and Batman crowd

>Even as Marvel grapples with these persistent problems, DC is currently on the upswing. Granted, DC really had nowhere to go but up with the way so many of their core franchises have stalled in the past year. But I certainly didn't expect to be so immediately and completely taken with the new Rebirth status quo. DC Universe Rebirth #1 wasn't just a great swan song for Geoff Johns, it was a love letter to everything the DC Universe was and is still capable of being. That one issue seems to have reinvigorated the DCU in a way last year's DC You relaunch failed to do. I've read every DC Rebirth title published to date, and there hasn't been one stinker in the bunch. And it's not just the big guns like Superman and Batman that are capturing my attention. I point to Green Arrow as the first major success story of DC Rebirth. Before DC Rebirth, Green Arrow wasn't a comic I gave much thought to. Now it ranks as one of DC's best. That's despite the fact that the new Green Arrow series has the same writer as the old one. Right off the bat, Rebirth is bringing out the best in DC's creators in a way that the old status quo wasn't.

>You can point to many mistakes made during the course of the New 52, but I think Rebirth is proving that the most fundamental of them was the the elimination of so much vital history and so many defining character relationships. Barry Allen is a better character now that he has Wally West back in his life. Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance are stronger together than they were apart. With DC Universe Rebirth #1, Geoff Johns took a long, hard look at what the New 52 lacked, acknowledged those shortcomings with frank honesty and set the wheels in motion to restore the DCU to what it once was. That crucial sense of history and legacy is back. It's fitting that DC Universe Rebirth #1 culminated with Barry reaching into the Speed Force and rescuing his long-lost friend.

>It's an apt metaphor for the way Johns and the other DC Rebirth writers have extended a welcoming hand to alienated and disenfranchised readers.

>Obviously, we're still less than a month into DC Rebirth, and there's no guarantee the current track record will hold as more books debut and creators get deeper into their new stories. But even after a few short weeks I'm optimistic about the future of DC in a way I haven't been in a long time. I just wish I could feel the same level of enthusiasm for Marvel's comic book lineup right now. I wish I felt the same way about Marvel's comic book universe right now that I do the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

>However, the takeaway from DC Rebirth is that positive change can happen, and it can happen quickly. Maybe there are lessons to be gleaned from DC Rebirth's success. Just as DC took a long, critical look at itself and set about restoring what was lost, so too should Marvel reevaluate its current direction. I know I'm not the only Marvel lover who misses that old spark

I actually can't wait to see the sales numbers about a year from now.

Rebirth has been a really good thing for DC and has brought a LOT of people back into the fold.

Marvel really pissed fans and LCS by doing the constant relaunches and the secret wars delay. (Not even touching the growing SJW influence they had been pandering to)

Marvel shock stories might be finally starting to backfire on them.

Okay but can they sell better for like four months

Omitting Star Wars? Maybe.

DC has an exclusive contract with Tom King
Marvel has Unbeatable Squirrel Girl

>and panders even harder to the Harley Quinn crowd

No man, no. Please, make it stop. I'll accept it if it means less Harley books by P&C and more by other writers

I'd say they aren't really gaining ground, more they pulled out of the nose dive the company was in thanks to the Nu-52 and bad editorial/corporate decisions.

Actually having DC be a competing player again in the comic market is a GREAT thing for the industry long term. Marvel has gotten kinda stagnate lately. A good kick in the pants something every company needs from time to time.

It's a good thing Tom King has a bunch of books that sold extremely poorly...?

His Batman is lackluster and it'll be a while until he gets another title with DC thanks to it being bimonthly and Sheriff already being a thing

There's a lot of things I agree with. I always considered myself more of a Marvel fan, but in recent years it feels like editorial has let off the reigns and is content to promote diversity and angering their fans (which are not always mutually exclusive). Say what you will about Joe Quesada, but at least he had balls and pushed his artists. Barring One More Day, we saw stellar runs from Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Mark Millar, J. Michael Strazynski, hell even Bendis was on point during this time period.

Now everything feels so disconnected, which is not a problem, but the talent roster is mostly garbage as well. I really blame Axel Alonso for seemingly lacking a spine, and allowing the Mouse to push him and the creative direction around, hence the Inhumans push and scaling back of the FF and X-Men. God, at this point I'd even welcome Shooter back, he'd at least whip everyone back into shape.

>His Batman is lackluster
Spoken like a true Marvel shill. His Batman #1 is hands down one of the most nuanced and subtly philosophical works of the medium to be put out by any publisher in years. At the very least, it blows literally every Marvel comic out of the water. It did more in one issue than most Marvel comics can manage in their entire run.

But his Batman is lackluster

>the Mouse
You mean Perlmutter.

>Rebirth has been a really good thing for DC and has brought a LOT of people back into the fold.

Funny how much of an effect empty promises can have.

>>>/tumblr/
I bet you were one of those people saying that Gotham Girl's skirt was too short in the storytime. Fuck off, DC isn't for your kind. Stick to Marvel and webcomics.

>his ONE batman is lackluster
lmao at least give it 3 or 4

You know Marvel is in trouble when IGN of all places is giving DC props over them

>tfw Cereal King saved comics

>ITT a bunch of salty Marlel fans will try to pretend like their company is publishing anything of substance right now

The problem with Marvel is that it obvious they are going to a seasonal event/relaunch model. Especially since the Disney buyout. Plus God help you if you're a FF or X fan.

Now that the Inhuman pushing has died down, maybe they are getting the idea they don't have to be in everything so Disney can cross-promote.

no one is saying anything like that

but they're still beating out DC in sales by like... a shitload

Well aren't we mr. cynical today.

As someone who works at a LCS, I've never seen this much enthusiasm for DC. Rebirth has been a big deal.

whats even the difference between Rebirth and ANAD? It's just another re-numbering right?

As much as I like what DC is doing with Rebirth and want to see it succeed over Civil War II, I don't trust fucking anything IGN puts out as journalism.

Yeah but now he's writing Batman, which will sell no matter what.

Can't say I disagree and I've always leaned toward Marvel. I hope they learn their lesson.

Sales have nothing to do with quality. Otherwise Bendis shouldn't sell more than 5000 each month. The sales may don't reflect it yet, but the whole Marvel Now relaunch is subpar crap so far.

Not sure why everyone is so down on King's Batman. I thought the first issue was really intriguing, and I guarantee that people who are shitting on it now will be eating their words in a couple months.

Literally one issue has come out. Calm the fuck down.

If Batman books can flourish under Snyder, that can under anyone

but that doesn't really say much about the rest of DC. I mean Flash, Superman, and Green Lantern got beat out by 2 Harley Quinn titles since the beginning of the year. They got beat out by 4 in April. I just don't know where DC is going to get their sales from.

ANAD came just a few months after a relaunch. And there's already a relaunch coming barely a year after ANAD. Also ANAD is mostly full of bad titles.

Yeah, but you can't just omit the Star Wars sales and the #1s. I like DC's output better and it would be fun to see them on top for a while for once, but these practices do work for Marvel.

>A good kick in the pants something every company needs from time to time.

Agreed and I think Marvel could do with a little bit of friendly competition. WWE was made indefinately better through it's competition with WCW and ECW. Kind of makes me sad they no longer have anyone to work against to help a "complacent body back into shape"

>Nu52 was so shit it makes Rebirth seem good

nevetheless, I'm not falling for DC bullshit ever again

>Sales have nothing to do with quality
Sales are the only thing that matter to companies and no one says "losing ground" in terms of quality.

>I just don't know where DC is going to get their sales from.
You answered your own question

Would be cool if this trend continued. More competition would probably be good for both DC and Marvel.

This. Well said.

The thing is Star Wars is almost an entirely separate market, a market that DC isn't competing in. Sure Star Wars comics are being published by Marvel, but they aren't really "Marvel Comics" if that makes sense.

I've also considered myself non-biased when it comes to comics as I just appreciate a "story told well that's worth telling" and semi-decent artwork. That being said, I did grow up more with DC titles from late 90's/early 00's era. I love Marvel too, but my interest in them in a company ends around the time Shooter left

Good. Marvel is pure cancer, they should wither and die. Comicbooks will improve considerably.

Nope, I mean the Mouse. Ike has been at Marvel since the early 2000's. Hell, I don't like the guy, but he did bring them back from bankruptcy after the whole 90's collector market BS.

>comic books will improve if there is no competition
wow

At a certain point, shitty quality will affect the sales. Something of bad quality, can't go on forever.

I'm just thinking, sales are sales, but yeah, that does make sense.

Snyder's Batman sold well for 52 issues

>cape comic fans discuss quality

ain't that cute

>Sales have nothing to do with quality.
They're businesses so sales are pretty important user
It's not "losing ground" if DC continues to be #2 publisher after all their big #1s stop coming out
And the companies care more about sales than they do quality because if they didn't then most events and crossovers wouldn't even exist

> there are only two comic companies in the world
wow

Good quality competition is a important thing to have.

Hell, I love to see a quasi 50/50 split happen again. It's a good thing and keeps innovation high.

Also, DC has really turned around from the shitty editorial they had around 2010-2013. Communication has improved and teams aren't getting thrown under the bus nearly as much.

>the market can survive on DC alone
wow

t. Dave Sim

I feel the same, and it's hard not to, when DC stopped the updated heroes and diversity gimmick and is focusing on stories only while Marvel keeps "reinventing" the characters no one wants to see fucked with.

>MFW with double-shipping even Rebirth titles will have higher issues counts in under a year than any of Marvel's titles from the past few years.
Will Marvel ever hit issue 13 again in one of their capeshit titles?

> still thinking DC is the only other comic book company
wow

The fact that Marvel is still overwhelmingly the majority market share after Rebirth has already happened with the highest selling issues that they have (the #1s) means that nothing is going to change.

LCSes need both marvel and dc.

If one goes then many of them would die, diamond wouldn't purchase as many things from the publishers left standing, and then the publisheres left standing would make less money

Vision and Contest of Champions are pretty great.

>comics
>substance
lol

We don't have June sales and figures yet.

And anyway DC most likely lost more money from the Rebirth oneshot than they gained, no matter how well it would've sold.

>Thinking the comic industry can survive without spider-man
wew

Vision is being written by a DC exclusive author. Might as well be a DC comic.

>Hell, I love to see a quasi 50/50 split happen again.
This hasn't been the case since the 80s.

Image, Dark Horse, etc aren't big enough to support a Marvel-less industry.

> implying spider man hasn't gone to shit after pearls such as making a deal with not Satan
wew

I shouldn't laugh but that chart is so accurate it's hilarious.

ITT: Salty DC fans

Let me get my pop corn

Don't worry, the real hero of DC will save them!

DC is selling books in Walmart?

You think it's bad now, just look at solicits from the early 00s.

Batman and Superman were quite literally two thirds of DC. The other third was Vertigo, JL members, and extra books like Titans, TT, YJ, etc.

it has and it can

DC fans are mad their favorite company is doing well?

That's not how that works.

>DC or Marvel's well-being depending on comics

They are mad because another company is doing better.

This has been happening for the last 50 years.

Sure why not. No one goes into LCSs anymore, so you might as well try to hit people where they already are like with gossip magazines.

I will live to see Amazing Spiderman vol 10 #1. Not sure now to feel about that.

back during MoS, a local Walmart had a TPB of Earth 1 Superman.

Walmart really doesn't do books much anymore. some shitty paperbacks and novels of whatever Hollywood turned into a movie.

Walmart and Rite Aid is where I used to buy all my comics when I was a kid. It didn't dawn on me until now that I hadn't seen comics in a store like that in ages.

fair enough WB and Disney sugar daddies make them harder to kill

the 90s were 50 years ago? Damn I feel old now

Will Batman, Harley and Flash become the new Trinity?
How long until Harley replaces WW as Batman's sorta-waifu?

Will this lead to a Batman/Harley/Joker love triangle?

>Will this lead to a Batman/Harley/Joker love triangle?

I hope not

Sales Demand It!

>I will live to see both Action Comics and Detective Comics #1,000

I love the "DC is doing good rn lol x)" meme. DCfags consists one of the most retarded fanbase I have ever seen. They basically pulled the same shit Marvel has been doing with ANAD in DCYou and you fags were like ''Y-yeah DC doesn't pander to SJWs!".

But it's understandable since no one fucking reads DC. Just look at the sales figures. It's embarrassing.

I wasn't referring to sales, but then again, why did I expect a DC fan to have good reading comprehension and not read into things?

Man, let's just leave Batman & Joker be happy together, they deserve it

You mean they aren't already?

But if they spitroasted Harley it wouldn't have to be so gay.

It's just anecdotal but it's good to hear. Not because DC necessary deserves it but because something needs to change at Marvel.

>That crucial sense of history and legacy is back.
That kind of is what is it now that I think about it. The current Marvel stuff really has no weight or sense of progress. It just feels like things are happening. Like continually playing a game after you beat it.

Nah

They have more than 75 years of sexual frustation going on across all continuity and universes, they have to release all that sexual tension someday, better now that it's allowed that when it's too late

DC gained ground on Marvel with the Nu52 launch, for a while.
They will gain with Rebirth,
for a while.
Nothing is changing, the Bat-comics must flow.

Yes it does Marvel shill. For all intensive purposes Vision is just a DC book under a different name. You could rename it Red Tornado and it would actually be a better comic for it.

>butthurt

Flash, Wonder Woman, and GL have been in the mid 30k range together for months now

Batman, JL, and Harley are DC's most consistent best selling books.
And JL was probably because of Johns. Every book he leaves gets destroyed in every way.

DCYou was great, though.

There's no guarantee Sheriff will start up right away after the first 12 issues. He might do something else in the meantime. The artist is DC exclusive too.