Killing of mass murdering supervillains, do you agree with it? Would you kill a supervillain if you were a superhero?

Killing of mass murdering supervillains, do you agree with it? Would you kill a supervillain if you were a superhero?

Yes. Absolutely. Fuck Peter for ever convincing anyone otherwise.

In some superhero settings, whenever a villain goes too far they'll get a kill order placed on them, allowing heroes and vigilantes to attack them on sight with lethal force in exchange for a bounty. I would kill somebody who had a kill order placed on them. Although if kill orders didn't exist I would kill them anyway if they were evil enough or if people were in immediate danger. Wouldn't that be justifiable homicide?

Someone people just don't want to kill, blame the state's incompetence not the hero.

I'm not saying Batman and Spider Man have to go full Frank and kill every thug but ya gotta crack some eggs when they go too far.

Why hasn't the state sentenced these people to death if they have been detained over and over again?

If you catch him in the process of trying to kill, then you can kill him. Otherwise the villain should be turned over to the state, who should then promptly try and execute him.

In a fictional world, no idea. In a real world situation such an individual would be too valuable as a potential weapon to be disposed of.

If Batman killed he joker everyone in gotham would breath a HUGE sigh of relief, even if the believe in batman's theory that someone worse will replace him. While I respect the underlying morality of the no kill rule heroes have, some people need to be dealt with in a way that allows them not to hurt anyone anymore. I'm tired of all the excuses they come up with about not wanting to turn into a monster themselves and other nonsense, If that is such a big issue for you then just retire after killing those who absolutely deserve it. sure, there is nothing wrong with giving someone a second chance, but 15 is way too fucking many.

if i had the power to actually kill them and not get pulled off and only wounding then and making them stronger then yes i would you would think a soldier like flash would be alright with killing someone like carnage

Likely not, since there is always the chance that they did not commit the crime or were otherwise framed. If there were no other choice, all bets are off though.

Everything is situational, so it depends on the villain.

yes of course
no need to kill the more minor criminals but at a point something has to be done

I'm fine with heroes not killing, as long as they provide a proper alternative. A long term solution that villains won't escape from.

like in a fucking atosecond

Kaine was the perfect hero for Texas.

Of course, this being comics, they WILL escape. That's the nature of the beast.

Bill Finger had this problem with Batman, back in the day. He claimed that murderers constantly getting out and murdering again made Batman look like he wasn't actually helping Gotham.

All he was doing was giving Gotham a reprieve between killing sprees, instead of stopping the problem.

If you are not a friend of justice, then you're mankind's enemy.

Why not? Give me a good reason not to.

If they haven't killed all the time I can see letting some villains live in a fictional world. Guys like Carnage, Joker and Norman Osborn should be executed.

Only if it's the only way to stop him from killing someone right then and there or something like that, or if he was one of those villains who just keeps getting out of prison and killing more people no matter how many times you put him away or how secure his cell is.

Superior was so satisfying.

Wormy-wormy-worm~

Examples?

Not the user, but I assume he's talking about Worm: parahumans.wordpress.com
1.7 million words long, featuring a rough start followed rapidly by a dramatic increase in writing quality and depth or worldbuilding. Good story.

If Kaine had successfully killed Carnage in this instance, we would never have gotten the world's greatest hero Axis Carnage, and that would be the true tragedy.

Well, it seems like I should put forth the moral and ethical arguments...
( Let's see if I can fake knowing them! )

First up: Killing is wrong. It's a line that heroes don't cross unless there's no choice. And for a "good" reason: Superman is insanely overpowered as is, plus he has plot armor, so the idea of this alien man-god flying around Metropolis with kill-from-space eyes for some select chosen people is horrifying. That's what Zod and Bizarro do. That's a kryptonite lobotomy away from him being Doomsday 2.0, it justifies every suspicion that Lex Luthor ever had about him. Plus it teaches every schoolboy across the world (both IRL and not) that might makes right alone, and bullies are cool, a message Superman fans sometimes take to heart anyway. That's not what Superman was intended to inspire.
Then there's the problems that this action would create in comics and in the industry: Batman one day decides to rape-murder the Joker for jollies, fair enough, but now that scary guy dressed like the devil who everyone's secretly called nutzoe for years has seemingly abandoned the only rule he had, isn't that the kind of guy that superheroes fight? Killers in funny costumes with crazy themed gadgets, minions, and secret layers where they brood and plot their schemes? So now Batman is on everyone's villians list, stuff has a tendency to escalate. Other killer heroes might try to bump him off, and die themselves, bodies stack up ... how long until he has to kill Superman to keep outa jail? WonderWoman?
Superhero Civil Wars have started over less.
But let's not forget the most important thing: good rogues galleries are hard enough to fill as is.

Did Norman Osborn really have that big a kill-count? I know he kills but he's not Carnage/Joker serial killer level dangerous.
Plus, unlike those two, he has a good side to him: father/familyman, buisness-man/job creator, Republican in good standing.
His insanity plea is actually legit.

>Wouldn't that be justifiable homicide?

Depends on where you are. In 95 percent of america, and maybe half of europe, yes.

In places with a "duty to retreat", you're required to run away.

Also, in places that require "proportional force", you're not allowed to just go up to him from behind when he's having a mocha and kill him even if he's murdered a bunch of people in the past. He's got to be an immediate threat to you. If he tries to run away, you're supposed to let him go.

Of course, with a big enough kill count, these rules tend to get stretched.

What if you're a wimpy fair weather friend of justice? Does that mean you're just mankinds annoyance?

Depends on a supervillain.
Someone like Mysterio, Rhino or Vulture? No.
Killing bastards like Hobgoblin or Kingpin would be very tempting, but no.
Carnage, Purple Man or Bullseye? Fuck yes and that's coming from someone who likes Bullseye as a villain.

Pretty Sure Norman killed Peter's baby daughter didn't he?

He may not have a kill count on the scale of Joker or Carnage, but he kills without remorse.

Still never got properly punished for Gwen Stacy, Otto's waifu (he gave her AIDS), Sentry's wife, Frank and didn't he blow up a football stadium?

He's not a good father. He might be a good businessman, but the world would be an inarguably better place if someone put a bullet in Norman's head. He's a remorseless peice of shit.

Depends if we're taking everything into context. There is no real reason to kill villains since if they're popular they'll neither stay imprisoned OR dead. If they aren't then chances are if you imprison them they'll stay in jail. And the whole believing villains are redeemable isn't without merit. I mean Magneto may have been hero more than he's been a villain at this point.

>it justifies every suspicion that Lex Luthor ever had about him
You are a human god damn shit stain.
Killing in self defense & defense of others IS NOT EVER FUCKING WRONG and billion light years from being what Lex is talking about.
Was Thor suddenly a tryant because he killed the Sentry/Void? when we know for a fact the sentry could have destroyed the entire planet as we saw in one of the what ifs.

No.
I don't have the authority or right to just decide to be judge and jury, just cause I have the power to do so. You can take the edgelord route, then scream and shout that you're doing the right thing that no one else is willing to do, but that still makes you an edgelord, at least in my eyes. If there is a way to stop someone without killing them, then I don't need to, nor should I be expected to.
If I stop a guy, and I get him in jail it's the judicial system's decision from then on.

>bullet in Norman's head
Would that even work, though? He has a healing factor that brought him back from the dead once.
Beheading seems to be the best solution.

Yes

>In a real world situation such an individual would be too valuable as a potential weapon to be disposed of.

That wouldn't work any better IRL than it does in comics.

Common Sense VS Batman.

Nice bait trips

>it's the judicial system's decision from then on

And if the judicial system is laughably ill-equipped to deal with these demigods?

he did in Endgame and now there are 3 Jokers instead of 1

THIS HAS NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH JUDGEMENT.
We aren't talking about killing people who aren't a threat at the time we kill them.
We aren't talking about sitting down and making a thought out choice to kill.
We are talking about in the midst of battle, in the midst of moutains of corpses you can prevent more death only by ending the threat.
Killing to save lives isn't fucking edgy, Letting people fucking die just to keep blood off you hands is mother fucking edgy you piece of worthless selfish shit.

He murdered Darkseid in final crisis

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NO. That's NOT the scenario in debate here.
Kaine has a standing policy of kill first and ask questions later, or at least he did when he first put on a hero costume.
He's making that argument in the OP's pic because that's his justification to go into EVERY combat situation with the intent to kill the villian.
That's called premeditated.
It wouldn't matter if Carnage had a hostage in hand or if he suddenly found Jesus, repented, and surrendered - Kaine would kill him.

God damn, that image must be 5 years old.

That's fair. Osborn has also done more good than those two.

I find Spider-Man sparing Carnage infinitely more annoying than Batman saving the Joker, I don't think he's ever even given an excuse for it.

It shouldn't be necessary, and vigilantes who are already operating outside the law have valid ethical reasons for wanting to keep their extra-judicial, no oversight crime fighting non-lethal, but it becomes an overwhelmingly valid step to take in a world where the demands of mass marketing ensues the villains will always escape and be back to business. In the real world, criminals very rarely actually escape from prison.

I never noticed that was Bomb Queen before.

Yeah, especially the big time ones

I'll give chances to the small time hencemen

This has everything to do with jusgement, and it always has.
It's your judgement that the only way to stop him is through death, and it's your judgement that justifies that decision is worth making.
You're also the only one talking about 'letting' people die.

IRL criminals, at least the big ones, rarely NEED to escape prison anyway.

It's a judgment of the situation and my capabilities not of him.
It's about risk.
Say a gunman has a gun to a little girls head and is counted down to when he pulls the trigger.
Yes I could shoot him in the shoulder but he could still pull the trigger. I could shoot the gun but it might set the ammunition off.
The safest course of action for the girl would be to shoot him thru the skull or spine.
Period.

No. Start killing and the law is less likely to tolerate all the vigilantes running around

If you let a murderer go when you have a point to kill him while he is still on the rampage every person he kills from then on is on you. You let them die.

Or, as a superhero, I just take the gun and incapacitate the gunman.
Or I take the girl, and incapacitate the gunman.
Shooting the gunman with a gun would just give him time to kill the girl, anyway.

But you're the one entertaining the idea that I'd be letting him go by not killing him. You've already set it into your mind that killing is the only solution, refusing any other end case scenario.

The biggest issue with the world is that it's overpopulated, so fuck killing mass murdering supervillains and lower the bar to start with jaywalkers.

FunFact: As he first appeared as a villian-of-the-month in an issue of Spiderman's,
IF Spidey had any kind of pro-killing policy it would have meant there would be no Frank Castle... THE PUNISHER. today.

Why does Batman have to be the one to kill the Joker? Why doesn't everyone lobby the state about it?

People say Batman killing him would be the logical thing, but if this universe abided by logic, this wouldn't even be a problem in the first place.

So you either have to accept that he won't kill him, or accept that Joker is going to come back to life every time. Your choice.

Because supervillains don't tend to escape and kill more.
OH WAIT.

what always get me about the whole Joker that no one Gotham, which supposedly one of the most corrupt police department in America, has never "discovered that Joker hanged himself in his cell" or "Joker tried to steal my gun during interrogation and I had no choice but to shoot him" or "we accidently put rat poison his lunch instead chicken flavor. WHOOPS". it's not like he has friends in the crime families. no one except for Harley (and not even her anymore apparently) likes the Joker. "He's the bad guy all the other bad guys tell horror stories about" right? he should've died long ago. not from Batman killing him but some family like i dunno, the Maronis deciding he's too much of a liability and having him killed on the way to the station.

>Killing of mass murdering supervillains, do you agree with it?
Yes. Very much so.

>Would you kill a supervillain if you were a superhero?
No, but I would do everything I could to make sure the police would execute them, and every time somebody asks me why I don't, I point out that neither has any cop.

Seriously, Spider-Man has Doctor Octopus beaten, bloody, and unconscious, hanging upside down from a pole. One of you, pull out your fucking service pistol and SHOOT HIM IN THE HEAD.

Then go back to what I first said: Blame Judicial System or whoever is in charge of keeping them locked up instead of the guy who literally put him on your doorstep wrapped up and tied in a bow.
I'm a superhero, not a political powerhouse.

...

Good point, but corruption usually favors the money.
In this case Arkham has two types of guards: those paid by generous Wayne donations, and those paid a little extra by someone they shouldn't be taking bribes from.
Apparently both those big money sources want Joker alive.
And then there's the cops: Gordon keeps it as by-the-book as possible under his command, before him, yeah, Joker would have never made it to a stationhouse, one way or another.

When Joker gathered up the other rogues for his asinine plot in Death of The Family they were portrayed as being either too spineless to resist him or too caught up in their own sense of supervillain duty to argue otherwise. It's just shit all around.

Then that goes back to what I just said, I'm no political powerhouse. If I was the type of superhero that could infiltrate and uncover secrets, and what not, then sure, but if I'm of the stopping crime and villains and what not, then that's something the people should really work out for themselves.
In any case, point being is that, it still falls out of my hands and I still don't hold the right to decide to kill someone just because someone else decides not to.
It's not my decision to make. I help where I can, and do what I can; if it isn't enough, I make it enough and keep trying.

depends on the situation, let's say the bad guy was fooled into killing people, like pressing a magical button that he thought would save the world, and it made shit worse. If we are going constant murder mode or soldier who isn't afraid to murder or purist on his crusade and they all kept escaping to murder again, then yes put them down.

unless DC says other wise, who is to say it's always the same joker every time. Like some one taking the mantle of batman, there is a new joker. Joker kidnaps people who look like him and brain washes them like in batman beyond plot.

if these demi - gods even exsist then they should have the means to hold them, since there is merely a man in a bat suit who beat them with technology.

That why I consider SpiderOck's run good.

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Athough he went full psychopath in the end

>full psychopath

Is that how all superkilleroes end up? Watchmen style?

Pot, meet kettle.

I think that there comes a point, round about the fourth time that mass super-murderer escapeds from an Ultramax Prison, that you just have to say:
"Okay, at this point, we've got to put you down, and see if death will keep you off the streets."

Because let's be fair, in comics, death very rarely IS the end. All you can do is hope it takes a few years before they come back.

If the villain happens to be popular then literally nothing you can do will keep them from being alive and free to murder.

Well, in the real world when you lock up mass murderers, they stay locked up, our prison system is very good at that. In fact, odds are they'd get the death penalty.
So no, there would be no need for me to kill mass murderers.

To be fair mass murderers in our world usually can't bench press a cruise ship with their pinkies or shoot lasers out their dickhole.

The Joker can't do anything of those things

To be fair, Carnage is kind of hard to kill.

He started as a villain trying to be a hero using underhanded and controversial methods to defeat his enemies, he had an ego that made him a bad team member and and despite his twisted personality there were certain things he couldn't tolerate like the Vulture using children. But I think they ruined him when near the end turning him into a full villain for Peter returning with the approval of the fans.

There have been multiple times when Carnage and Cletus were seperated.
More importantly, Symbiotes are weak to sound and fire.

The big criminals usually aren't mass murderers, in America at least.

>be US Marine
>not a grunt just support

He'll yes fuck those assholes. I'd be Frank all day everyday.

Should I throw him into the sun?

I'm just saying the guy came back from being torn in half in space. And isn't the symbiote inside his blood now? Can't really seperate them at that point.

Some people on here are talking about regular criminald and others are talking about fictional repeat serial killers.

If Charles Manson broke out of jail every few years and killed a bunch of people or whatever he would do his ass would have been dead decades ago.

Drain all the blood from his body, replace it with donor blood.

If society has a problem with villains escaping jails and murdering again they can execute them themselves. Superheroes are not your executioners.

To be fair he wouldn't have plot armor. Plus isn't he segregated from the main population since it's obvious there'd be constant attempts on his life since he's a famous murderer and therefore good for your rep?

and yet they're our law enforcement

>Duty to retreat
I still cannot believe that somebody thought this law was a good idea

I'd play it like a cop (the good kind). I'm not going to immediately resort to gleeful murder, on the account of valuing people's lives on principle, but I'm not going to let you kill me or a bystander. If that means you die, it's unfortunate -and I'm not being sarcastic- but acceptable.

Chances are I'd try to get deputized by local law enforcement before it came to that, though. Just randomly throwing yourself into situations where you have to kill people straddles the 'murderous vigilante' territory. Best case scenario, the baddies surrender and receive due trial, and facilities are built to deal with metahuman criminals.

So, yes, I would kill, but only as an absolute last resort, and with carte blanche to do so given by local/federal authorities. None of that sadist crap either; quick and painless, as much as possible given the circumstances. Not quite Spiderman, not quite the Punisher either.

Too edgy for a superhero?

...

The commandment actually originally said something closer to "You shall not murder", it was against unlawful killing, but fine with killing your enemy in battle or executing criminals.

Yeah, fuck that. My father is an asshole.

Craven pussy.

And yet here we are.