Who is right, generally speaking?

Who is right, generally speaking?

Neither because they're both mutie scum

When you remember that humanity's first introduction was Magneto taking over a military base all by himself just because, it gets hard to argue that they shouldn't be hated and feared.

Magneto did nothing wrong

/thread

Both in a sense.
Without Malcom X, MLK's non violent movement would have never worked.

In the comic book world tho Magneto. Humans will always hate mutants.

>Mutants get random powers, ranging from cool to useless
>hurr durr Master Race
Magneto was a fucking dumbass. Just because someone is a mutant doesn't mean they're objectively superior or fit to rule. The powers are random as fuck. Xavier is completely right.

>Magneto did nothing wrong
GTFO Sup Forums mutie scum, this is a abomination free zone.

I mean, there's no way the goverment will just allow mutants to roam free. But it's inhumane to do that to mutants. And mutants technically don't have rights like actual human beings.

Magneto is basically right. Exercising strength is the only way to force stalemate, which is the best possible option.

With the way our world works realistically if a group of individuals existed who suddenly developed superhuman abilities they'd find themselves in the situation Erik describes or desires (i.e. Rule or be Ruled) more often than Charles.
Unless Charles himself existed, in which case he could and probably would regularly mindwipe potential threats to the dream.

Technically it wouldn't be a crime, someone forgetting how much they want to start a mutant lynching isn't exactly the worst offense.

All that is beside the point, within the comics themselves Charles is usually in the right since Erik is fucking insane in how he goes about his philosophy making it self-defeating. It's funny because Doctor Doom's equally off his rocker but he knows how to present himself so that it's seen as a character flaw and not who he is. All he's constantly done for Latveria and his people is integral to why he cannot be easily dismissed by even his worst critic.

In the public eye Magneto is synonymous with terrorism and little else, his stance on mutant society and the one or two cases of trying to support it are considered a temporary, side thing.

>Run around literally calling themselves homo superior
>Expect to not be hated and called scum

Fucking muties!

>Magneto facing left
>Xavier facing right
pottery

I do not believe mutants can be ruled by non-mutants. Mutants will likely be top enforcers of the new world order dictating their will to others, even if government nominally is not mutant. Not necessary apartheid level, but if such a scenario happened in real life, this is how it will go down and resisting the change will only prolong violence.

Well, Xavier... Magneto is batshit insane. A more peaceful "Let's train ourselves to combat with peace and helping humanity rather than militarizing ourselves against them" is a great approach l.

Magneto is a hypocrite for wanting to do to humanity what the nazis did to da jooos.
They should just retcon him as never being jewish. Every year that passes by where magneto gets older but still looks middle-aged stretches credibility even further. What is he now, 90 years old?

>implying the holocaust even happened

>Let's train ourselves to combat with peace
Dude the XMen are a fucking private military organization. They even used to keep their identities and base of operations secret to not be answerable to anyone. The only reason they are not considered terrorists is that they punch other mutants who instead happen to be considered terrorists.

If someone beat me up and I proclaim I should break his arms so he never beat me up again, does it make me a hypocrite?

Not really, unless I preach non-violence. Criticizing Magneto for being an insurgent while training child soldiers in private is more like hypocrisy.

>powers range from cool to useless
>humans still want to genocide them with Sentinels regardless of their individual threat level
Nah m8. A handful of literally god-tier ubermensh watered down by a majority of decidedly harmless but diverse demi-gods is miles better than a bloated population of dumbass normies.

Malcolm X didn't preach violence though, he preached that blacks and whites should be separated. He renounced this viewpoint later on in life btw.

Frank Horrigan has the right idea.

I think they're both wrong overall.
Peaceful and non violent protests depend a great deal on having public sympathy. When you're on the news people need to be able to look at you or your group and feel that the opposing force is being unreasonable and that you're being bullied or taken advantage of. Being a mutant, or rather the idea that a mutant has these destructive powers at hand diminishes the feeling that you need someones help to get out of a bad situation. Looking like a demon or an animal or anything that isn't clearly human or at least cute and helpless diminishes most peoples desire to help you.

The X-Men while showing mutants weren't all killers and despots seemed like a good idea but I think it mainly sent a message of this is what a mutant teenager can do. Could you even imagine your kid not only surviving but being victorious in these situations.


And on Magnetos end getting people to accept you or your group by fear or threats has NEVER worked. At best people would pretend ot like them for a time while working on something like the legacy virus to wipe them all out.

Genosha seemed like a good idea until you realize you're putting all or the majority of them in one place to easily bomb. Plus, I think segregation just sounds bad even in some cases where it seems to be beneficial. It's isolationist and seems more like giving up than any kind of progress being made.


I think the best thing would have been to (before the mist kills mutants thing) ally with the Inhumans. Just tell them that Mutants get treated like garbage and it would be the same for them (even though it probably wouldn't because... DIRTY MUTIES) and they need help or sanctuary.

>being a buttblasted flatscan
your tears are delicious

This post, so wrong

They are both wrong because as we've seen in real life, respectability politics and trying to be a presentable "other" doesn't even fucking work for humans with different skin tone and places of birth, so it has zero chance of working when you are a toad or shoot eye punches out your sockets

Magneto's way is wrong because, you know, murder

PMO that trains and uses child soldiers, no less. Lets not even get into the consent issues that having a series of powerful mind-controllers as leaders raises

Hopping on the "they're both fuckwits" bandwagon.

Magneto is on some kind of retarded cyclic self-fulfilling prophecy shit. Humans hate and fear mutants because Magneto is constantly trying to rule/murder humans because humans hate and fear mutants. It's beyond stupid.

Charles, on the other hand, began with the right idea. Find mutants, train them to control their powers. That's a good call. People aren't going to hate and fear a mutant as much if they know he isn't going to lose control and vaporize six city blocks. Problem is, 'ol Chuck decided that he needed to take those kids he was training and form his own clandestine army of mutant vigilantes. Fucking nobody is comforted by the idea that the Mutie Gestapo could bust in and melt their brains for hate crime.

Agreed with the first part regarding pacifism and respectability. That approach is a fucking joke and the best way for a movement to achieve nothing.

For the latter you're wrong, there's nothing inherently bad about murder or violence both are simple facts of existence. Violence or the threat of violence is an absolutely essential component in overthrowing oppressive systems, there has never been a single instance in history where an independence or rights movement has succeeded in its goals without violence, despite the bullshit propaganda that establishments feed the masses.

NOT

MAGNETO

>For the latter you're wrong, there's nothing inherently bad about murder or violence both are simple facts of existence.

what's the obsession marvelfags have about asking if a character was "right"?

>Who is right, generally speaking?
Cyclops

"Generally" Magneto is right, as human's are unable to get along with themselves, never mind mutants. Though that is partially justified, how terrifying some mutants are.

There is no way they'll just let mutants alone, but terrorizing the humans doesn't really help.

Magneto was right

We are the future Charles, not them

what a based quote. it's just the next step in evolution. if you side with xavier you are baiscally siding with inferior cro-magnon men vs homo-sapiens

Like the joke is Cyclops but he was taking elements of both of them into something new and better. until once again outside editorial forces ruined poor Scott.

Can my answer by Mags when he was trying to run the school?

>All he's constantly done for Latveria and his people is integral to why he cannot be easily dismissed by even his worst critic.

yeah dude, lotta dictators and tyrants try to cover their ass by saying that.

True, but I do not believe that Magneto can see past his preoccupation with hating all humans to effectively dismantle the system of oppression effectively.

Too much nonsense about reversing the poles and indiscrimanent threats on meaningless individuals to really do anything

This is an interesting stance and if I were a mutie I would embrace it.

On the flip side it does justify all the hates the muties receive.

Marvel Zombie propoganda perputuated by Stan Lee about how Marvel is the "smart comic" on the stands

>tfw the albatross of Insane Stan/Jack Magneto forever overshadows all Claremont's work

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

also he went on trial for his crimes

If it was the real world then the Prof. Magneto is just a bastard terrorist.
In 616 however the American government is a monstrous caricature of the worst left-wing fantasies about "teh evol rethuglicans!!1!" and the general population is even worse so Xavier's peaceful integration is nothing more than stupidity.

>Magneto: "I'm a complete & total fucking hypocrite who survived the holocaust, but think of mutants as a 'superior people' and non-mutants should die"

FUCK Magneto. He's not sympathetic, he's a piece of shit.

I have always felt that the whole premise is flawed.

You can't make a statement about prejudice when characters can literally level cities.

Yeah, Doom is basically 1970s/80s Colonel Gadaffi's propaganda about himself - the non-western dictator who hates the west and is hated in return, but he loves his people and has done so much for them because he's just that good.
What I'm saying is that Doom's eventual fate is to be sodomised with a metal pipe by an angry mob.

THE clap SUB clap FIRED clap FIRST

>"Hurr durr mutants are good and totally not just humans with powers."

Mutants are not a different species. They're not special snowflakes. They're 1% of the world population born with an extra genome which gives them weird defects/powers..

And?

Magneto has tried to take over the world dozens of times and has super powers. Of course they should have fired first.

If Magneto didn't want to be prosecuted he shouldn't have been a fucking meglomaniac

So Magneto needs to get off his fucking high horse acting like he's better than everyone else strictly because he was born with a magical defect.

Even when he's in a national court to present his case he still cannot help to act like a smug piece of shit

Neither because regardless of what either of them do Mutants will never really win. They'll stop the latest racism metaphor event in the comic but they won't be equal or anything like that. Imagine if Malcom X and MLK were still protesting for the civil rights amendment 50 years later. At some point you got thing maybe we should just fuck off somewhere else.

pretty much, although it does inadvertantly feed into the "minorities are super predators" mindset funny enough by attempting to make mutants analogous to oppresed groups irl

...

/thread
Death to all of them.

I'd actually be ok with this if Marvel ever did it

>If Magneto didn't want to be prosecuted he shouldn't have been a fucking meglomaniac

iirc he didn't get arrested he offered himself up

you know if they both hadn't been assassinated they might be?

Mutant hate only really works as a metaphor for feminism.

All the other mainstream hate is like "They are all subhumans, race war now" and senator Kelly is like "They are stronger and better then me, gimme my safe space"

They'd still be talking about that BLM stuff yeah but imagine if black people still couldn't sit in the front of the bus or use the same water fountains or bathrooms as everyone else. At some point you got think maybe I should stop interacting with these people at all.

>"minorities are super predators"
Only if you focus in on the Xmen
I'm more than certain there are plenty of mutants who don't have any powers/useful powers

>At some point you got think maybe I should stop interacting with these people at all.
What did he mean by this?

Considering the books usually focus on mutants with abilities that can be used in an action setting then yeah, they make up like 99% of the presented mutant race

Isn't the standard of living in Latveria extremely high, even if it is a bit low-tech for the average citizen? I've always thought of it as some kind of big Mormon compound, but where the only religion is DOOM and medical care is probably leagues ahead of most first world nations. I mean, it is ultimately all to feed DOOM's ego because he gets to point out to Richards that his people are happy and healthy, but I doubt most Latverians care all that much about why DOOM takes good care of them so long as he continues to do so.

fuck that, why do they get to win? this is supposed to be America land of the free and if it's not we work until it is. that stupid never give up idealistic stubbornness is engrained

>falling for his propaganda

Well after 50 years of getting no where either peacefully or violently I think me and my race of super powered god children with friends in multiple alien empires would just fuck off to their own world. I mean you gotta know when to throw in the towel on the whole co-existence thing.

Is it propaganda when you literally are shown this in-universe? Are the writers and artists DOOM's propagandists?

>Are the writers and artists DOOM's propagandists?
Actually...

why does one of them have to be right

Cyclopes

So one can be wrong

> Doom gets deposed and sodomized by Richards.
> old monarchy is restored.
> goes into a worse hellhold than when Doom ran it.
> Doom gets deposed again.
> democratic government is established.
> it becomes corrupt and the person in charge tries to take over the world with Doom's toys.


So.. how is Doom a bad thing when the alternative never seems to work for that country?

>whole country looks like it stepped out of the 1920s
>living standards are really high h-honest!
>everyone loves me! pay no attention to the army of robots waiting to incinerate anyone who says they don't love me!
Some people sure are stupid.

Storytime. this is Ghosts from Nation-X.

...

...

...

...

...

...

Basically, Magneto is right. Humanity will never embrace them, mutants need to aggressively protect their own.

Magneto.

Humans won't ever accept muties. Objectively speaking, the best world for mutants is a world where they alone are its primary inhabitants. It's pretty straightforward.

Obviously Xavier is the more moral.

But neither is "wrong."

DOOM 2099 was basically that.

By your retarded logic gun owners should shoot all non owners and create their perfect utopia of gun owners where the strong all get along because they all own guns.

...

But more mutants are still going to be born, more kids with weird defects the subject of hate crimes. The X-Men fucking off and leaving Earth alone doesn't really help mutants in the long run.

Well, Magneto is a sjw, so Professor X

At first I thought Charles was right. Magneto is way too extremist and he thinks that his past is a justification for the terrible crimes he has done. However I felt that the X-men have lost their way in the recent years. They shutted themself off the world and actually started thinking of themself homo superior instead of human with gifts, caring more about the mutants than the humans they swear want to protect.

are you saying that we shouldn't do that?

It's interesting only from a stance of ignorance and self-importance.

Firstly it's artificial evolution and ultimately all the furious goose stepping is headed towards a Celestial shaped furnace in the distance.

The opposition mutants have against so much as the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister is enough to show the thinking is very flawed even at early stages of eugenics, because as already said in this thread some people do not want the face of evolution looking like Toad or Glob.

>They shutted themself off the world

The world did that too them. The mutants didn't decide to live on a rock island for the fun of it, they were forced to retreat there.

>all get along because they all own guns
They'd start fighting each other over who has the best guns.

The flaw with that kind of reasoning is that mutants themselves have "human" traits. They share the exact same flaws as humans, and it's hypocritical of muties to say "humans are wrong because of their way of thinking" because muties share those same traits. Just because you can shoot lasers or fireballs or whatever doesn't make you immune to having emotions and acting irrationally.

Mutants are like everybody else, except for the part where they can be a serious threat if they let their human side get the best of them. I really just never understood Magneto's retarded genocidal tendencies

>you are not the master race, therefore you need to be exterminated

that is just straight up xenophobia. Pretty fucking ironic coming from a jew. Humans have all the right to fear mutants, possibly not outright hate them but muties have time after time proven to be just as xenophobic as humans are. It goes both ways, and it's one of the main reasons why mutants and humans will never co-exist peacefully.

>"There is no future in integration!"
>go back to your mutants-only (save for a handful of token human servants) armed compound while smirking about how enlightened you are now

Can x-writers go a single book without making mutants massive hypocrites?

Have they really? They shut themselves off from the world because they were down to less than 200 mutants. Their actions make sense, I don't really recall anytime they really recalled themselves as superior to humanity.

yeah, when fucking Osborne was in charge.
But after Osborne fell, they remained on that island until AvX right?

Exactly which is why Magneto with his Island paradise of mutants is bullshit. Yes rule them ironically like Hitler, oppressing weak mutations and keeping the strongest in his personal army that he'll inevitably use to attack the human world.

Fuck Magneto

You missed the point. Magneto understands the folly of his supervillain ways, and thinks that the present circumstances are an ironic, hollow, victory.

This. Magneto weakens mutants by turning the world against them, the best way for him to aid mutant kind would be by joining the X Men and bringing the hammer down on threats while Xavier talks about how there's no need to worry about mutants and stops new threats from forming.

Pretty sure Cyclops says he'd sacrifice any number of humans to save a mutant back when Scarlet Witch wiped them nearly extinct.

Sup Forums

Not only that, but for a time the ONE was literally forcing at least half of the world's mutant population to be on the mansion's grounds.

Because he wasn't the only threat.
Works in Georgia.