Hawkeye Panel Density Analysis

Hey guys

I made a new video looking at Aja's panel density using a page from Hawkeye #2.

Would be interested to see what you think. Always looking for more suggestions of topics to tackle as well if anyone has any ideas!

youtube.com/watch?v=wqbPRTi8SN8

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem
parkablogs.com/content/book-review-framed-ink-drawing-and-composition-visual-storytellers
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Oh hey, I saw this earlier!

Thumbs up sir. I like the in-depth analysis.

I love how excited you sound when talking about this. You sound a lot like me in that sense lol. Ive never seen your videos, but if you love stuff like that, you should talk about how Mike Mignola uses his art to tell his story.

Aja and Fraction are geniuses together. Thanks, bro.

I think it's incredible for how "wordy" that book can be, it doesn't overwhelm you like say, a Bendis book. Aja keeps you visually stimulated so you never even notice how much you're actually reading. His flip shots also serve to show you how isolated and distant the two are at this point in the book.

Also nice voice. North England?

>North England
For the record I have no idea, just calibrating my accent index.

Hawkguy is bad

Marvel is bad

Yeah I really wanted to show an example from a Bendis book in a "how to do it the boring regular way" - but I think I'll jist keep the focus on positive stuff!

Yep. Grim north.

Yeah definitely want to do Mignola. I'm working my way through Hellboy in He'll at the moment, so might use some of that!

I thought I heard some weird background sounds around the third minute, but maybe not

Anyway, I thought it was okay. I don't usually watch YouTube so maybe that's why I don't have strong opinions. Kind of started getting bored in the last minute, wished you would have used other examples from the series instead of just talking about one page.

Never did finish the series after all the delays, maybe I should read it all again.

as a longtime reader and an occasional McCloud fan, I too notice these things, but often take them for granted, so I dig your analysis.

I mostly admire that you can find these panels attention worthy - I all too often just blitz through modern comics just to finish them. I really need to start focusing like you do.

>Yeah I really wanted to show an example from a Bendis book in a "how to do it the boring regular way" - but I think I'll jist keep the focus on positive stuff!
Well I don't think Bendis is bad per se, I just don't think his style necessarily lends itself to comics. Fraction and Aja put a storyboard on paper. That's one of the reasons why I'm baffled Marvel won't use it for a Netflix series.

It's not just stylish, it's fully realizing the art form.

Thanks for checking it out. That's probably just the way my brain works - I can get fixated on one little thing!

I'm the exact same. My thoughts are it's designed to be invisible, so if you do notice them first time round, someone's probably trying too hard.

Oh brother, if your reading Hellboy in Hell, wait till you get to the last pages of the last issue. I wont spoil anything but its just beautiful.

It would translate to Netflix very very well I think.

Bendis isn't bad, no, but like you say about Hawkeye, it doesn't often think of a cleverer way of getting through exposition that just panels of loads of dialogue.

Only a few issues to go!

Well keep up the videos, I enjoyed this one very much.

Thanks :)

I'm glad there's finally a nice channel for this, and I look forward to it slowly raising in quality and popularity.
Hellboy requests everywher, you know what to do.
Also, Hawkeye is kind of controversial here. Half hate it because of its "tumblr" style, and the other half loves it, because they read it.
Definitely do Hellboy, everyone's requesting it.
I would like to request Pax Americana. It's easy to wrap your head around it, but the analysis might be fun.

Can't believe Pax Americana isn't on my list! Great suggestion.

Yeah I'm getting a lot of Hellboy so itll be in the next couple of vids for sure.

Hawkeye is just a masterclass is sequential storytelling I think. Aja is one of those artists you let work with the "Marvel" style... he knows how to break down a page.

what is this tumblr style?

Dumb male
Super smart females
Memes like bro

What does that have to do with the art in the comic?

Even if someone doesn't like the writing, there's no doubt that Aja is a great artist and storyteller.

Your videos are very nice, man.

Yeah, but the writing is "oh-so-silly". Things like "Hawkguy" and "Pizzadog" make people think it's not a serious piece of work on first glance. Not to mention that whole running and forced joke with the "bro". Almost cartoony behaviour, and the artstyle follows that writing.

Hello OP

>page where there's a ton of fucking dialogue has a ton of panels
>the artist changes the characters expressions therefore its good storytelling

Amazing analysis. 5* liked and subscribed.
Amazing work.

Definitely cartoon-y though. It's still within the realms of a superhero big two comic. Just because something isn't "serious" in theme doesn't mean it's not a "serious" piece of art.

I know, if you read back my posts, that's exactly what I said. People who love it, love it because they read it, people who hate it, hate it because they've only seen the shallow surface of a truly gripping comicbook.
I understand also that it's cartoony, and knows it, and it works amazingly well. Just try to understand this from a different view. All hail the new Hawkeye comic, brilliant writing, magnificent details, yadi-yadi-yada. Then someone goes "I'll check this out! Sounds great!", then they see:
>Matt Fraction
>Cartoony art
>Cartoony jokes
They were "lied" to, given false expectations and idea of what it is. They expect a more sophisticated thing. I know it's a great comic with a lot of deep emotions, but you get these people reading on the surface, and you tell them "Oh, you're just not reading inbetween the lines enough, maaaan." You do know how that sounds, when one of the issues is just "bro". I love the comic, but I can totally understand where the hate comes from, and why.

even when you try to spin it the OP still sounds right

Good stuff OP. I was curious, your reviews so far have all been stuff from 2012 and beyond, do you ever plan on reviewing older comics from say like the 90's, 80's, or 00's?

Some 80's/90's Marvel I'd love to take a look at, and Harvey Pekar has a little video planned. I'm working my way through what's freshest in the memory at he moment really!

I read Harrow County and it's brilliant. People say it's a horror comic, It's more a southern gothic fairytale. They're are parts that can be quite ominous. Maybe you could do a video of a comic builds a sense of dread via framing and narrative.

On the same topic, One thing I noticed about Tom King's "Vision" is the exposition boxes are completely incongruent with what's actually happening in the panels themselves, and even the character's dialogue. (The first issue, with the vase is a /very/ good example of this.) Everything's rather superficial, which seems parrell with the '50's Americana King seems to be invoking. An era of pretence.
It creates a great level of foreboding and foreshadowing that can make you afraid to turn the next page, because you wonder when shits gonna hit the fan.

How writers use panelling and narrative to create a heavy sense of uneasiness and dread sounds like an intriguing video concept.

There's also the "I can appreciate the craftsmanship that went into this but this dude isn't anything like the Clint I know from a whole lot of comics before this, sigh" perspective.

Heck, I might try to do it myself. I love creepy stuff like that, and it would help if I could transfer what I'd gleaned into my own work, helped by someone far more articulate and better at analysing comics then myself!

What other video topics do you have lined up, SNC?

*SPN

You're basically talking about the idea I've got drafted for a look at King's Vision #1 haha! That immediately hit me when I read it, the vase issue. Also that P vs NP issue is genius in its understanding of that concept.

Also known as the "MUH" perspective

>hate it because its tumblr
I hate it because it shits on Clint.

kek

Great minds think alike! I would pay definite attention between the convo, between Mrs Vision and Vision. It tells use so much about them, and their "personhood". They are a couple who after having neighbours over are having an argument over the semantics of words. Pleasant, simple adjectives like "Nice" and "Kind" cause confusion. Something that we an organic beings who have been raised speaking English wouldn't pay to minds about they are mulling over the denotations and connotations of these modifiers and analysing every possible context they could be read as. They don't just seem like this polished family down the street, but complex algorithisms trying to analyse humans. This stark contrast of the 50's façade married to these in-organic beings with very complex brains, create a feeling of "Not quite right" and an uneasy "uncannily valley" feeling, because even though they display human characteristics, you know at the end of the day they aren't.

And, the vase! The extended metaphor of the vase is a parellel for their whole relationship/family. (Would say more, but can't find page.)

Really, this comic is a gem.

*confusion and debate

BTW, What is P vs NP?

What it is is really hard to explain. That Vision issue does a better job than I or this wiki entry ever could.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem

Also, that single bubble of "nice", with the long beat, before explaining in the second bubble his reasoning making it look like he's chiding his wife. He's very abrupt. Like he's explaining pedantically to a child. (And she is young. If I remember correctly he made her recently.) The conversation is so cold, there doesn't feel like there's love in this relationship. (Are robots capable of love?) This echoes all the way through further issues. There is a disconnect between them.


(He wants Wanda, doesn't he?)

Holy shit, that was A really good, like, really good.
>Content I find interesting
>Good update schedule
>Concise and informative
>praising Hawkeye

Yeah, subscribed. Keep it up mate.

Damn, by eyes are glossing over this scientific jargon, but thanks away. Perhaps, that issue can simplify it for me. Do you know what number of Vision it was?

Oh come on, user. It's a character from a big budget company, you know characters there get retconned and raped every other tuesday. You shouldn't care, and just enjoy the character as is, and not what he is supposed to be based on previous interpretations. You shouldn't base your opinion on how the character was in previous incarnations. Even though I understand where you're coming from. Thanos was one of my favorites, and it Aaron just destroyed him and I got annoyed aswell, and didn't read his run.

#6 if I remember right.

And yeah, the whole Tom King Vision is fantastic. It really is just this idea of advertising, being sold the perfect life and slowly coming to realise that it will never be like that. Really quite an effective thing. I love what Marvel have allowed creators to do in some of these smaller, almost indie-like "superhero" books.

>the whole Tom King Vision is fantastic
It's a shame about his Batman ...

People are saying it feels "Vertigoesque", and I completely agree. It's a very weird fit for a Marvel book. It's more slower and paced, and is a focused character piece, rather than a Bang! Boom! action spectacle.

Thanks, for the number. Another thing I've noticed is compared to most Mainstream cape books, King uses expositional boxes for Vision A LOT, to drive the narrative, than just dialogue bubbles alone. I guess it adds to the "Indiesque" feel of the book. This technique allows King to give us that visceral "uneasy" feeling as there is a conplete mis-match as to what doing on in the prose vs the picture.

Reading King's posts here makes me curious to read more of his work but Batman #1 was such a boring, deflated mumble and didn't really have any meat to it. The way he posts and phrases his ideas here makes me think there's a lot going on in his head that doesn't make it to the page.

It seems King's Batman has a rather Lukewarm reception around here, I have yet to read the issue. Perhaps, it's because by virtue of being Batman he has a much heavy editorial mandate on him, in comparison to his other titles. I think he has talked/tinted at the pressure in interviews. Guess we'll see how it feels in the coming issues and whether his run will continue his critical winning streak.

Also, seeing how much you praise the good, I'd love to hear your thoughts on artists from the 90's plastic age.

I cant enjoy seeing Clint dying/getting shat on every fucking time.

Batman is really the worst thing you could start if you want to read King stuff. I suggest you check out Vision #1, it's one of the best first issues I've read in the last couple of years.

I loved your work pal, good thing that you have there.

do you know any analisis for lewd or pornographic comics? I often work with it and I'm curious if you know how to build scenes for one. Would you do a vídeo about it?

Also, interesting thing about the bubbles, is they never really close. He continues on this very esoteric topic never missing a beat. Talking about the distance and dynamic between them, he has more dialogue, which shows his dominance to the convosation and a bit of a power imbalance to their relationship. (He created her) In the middle panels when she talks his back is turned, no eye contact. Yet, she always maintains her gaze on him, like she's seeking his approval. He only really looks at her, when she says something he agrees with/ deams "obvious". There's never any physically contact between the couple only the transference of the cookie tray from her hands to his, our eyes follow from the 1st middle panel to the third. (Something man-made/inorganic, like them.)

Adding to the discordant effect/techniques King employs, let's just state the obvious, The Visions themselves. They aren't normal. They're aren't human. They're synethoids. The non-naturalistic colours of red skin, green eyes are in complete contrast to the dour greys and browns of their kitchen. The bottom left-hand panel, where the Visions are framed by cabinets show this effect quite well.

Hey, I'm learning something new! Analysing comics can be really fun.

Saw it yesterday, alongside the Moon Knight vid.

I'd love to see an analysis about sequential humor, explored in Steve Lieber's art. The Fix and Superior Foes do it excellently.

Sheriff of Babylon has a wonderful emphasis on violence and motion. Gunshots occur in black BANG panels.
The Omega Men could be analyzed on color and panel perspectives

I feel like all of King's comics have something special to them, except Batman. Everything about the comic is so average from those 2 issues. Standard cape comic, which is not what I was expecting from him.

Ironic, since I actually really enjoyed Finch on art.
I still have faith in King, as I didn't think Sherriff of Babylon and Omega Men were that special from issue 1.

Green hair*

I read really early Clint so it reminds me a lot of him back then. A fuckup in a Hank Pym sort of way but still a hero. I think it perfectly shows the flaws of syndicated comic books through a character

Same feeling. Batman felt very pedestrian.

>Half hate it because of its "tumblr" style, and the other half loves it, because they read it.
Fuck off, I read it and it's fucking awful, the only reason it was succesful was because of Aja art

Have you formally studied film, SPN, or do you just research/read in your own time for fun?

Yeah I did Film Production at Uni.

In terms of comics analysis it's jus Scott McCloud and reading a lot of comics.

Ah, that's explains a lot. The way you analyse panels, and framing composition seems to be from a some what film perspective. I've heard of the Scott McCloud book and "Framed Ink" as being really good books that focus on comic as a vehicle for visual storytelling and help explain why certain things work the way they do. Is the McCloud book that good? Have you heard of the latter?

Semi-related, what's on your pull list/what are you reading? I just plowed through 10 issues of Harrow County. It's so good. And, I like the fact that it's not set during the time of the witch "Hestor Beck", but in the aftermath several years later. Tyler Crooks' art is amazing. The wood seem to have a life of their own. And, the side stories a great. It's like every nook and cranny of this county is plagued by the supernatural. Slightly claustrophobic, entertaining to read about, but I certainly wouldn't want to live there. Hope the TV show keeps the same ominous feeling of the comic.

McCloud's Understanding Comics is really great. Some of it might be fairly obvious if you've been reading comics for a while though, but it's a great read.

I have a lot... Southern Bastards, Saga, Providence, Wolf, Lumberjanes, Injection... various stuff really. But mostly a lot of Image.

And nope not heard of Framed Ink - I'll definitely check it out!

>My thoughts are it's designed to be invisible, so if you do notice them first time round, someone's probably trying too hard.


YEP

which sadly is why the people never get a proper due

yeah when that book was at it's hottest I was reading old Avengers and couldn't (and still can't) get my mind around how it ruined Clint or w/e dumb thing people said.

> (Are robots capable of love?)

yes, fuck you.

As always OP, the videos are great. As for requests, maybe do something by Moore? Anything but Watchmen, seeing as how that's been analyzed by everybody and their mother.

Even if something's "obvious", it can still be hard to articulate the reasons "why" into words. Having a book that can solidify those concepts can be a huge help in aiding comprehension and clarity of understanding. I'm enjoying Saga, too! But, admittedly I've slowed down. The fourth trade is still standing on my shelf, spine intact. Waiting to read the forth trade of "Nailbiter". I wanted to get into the new Powerman/Iron Fist, I love Danny and Luke, but the writing and characterisation are doing nothing for me. Any recs?

I really want to buy "Framed Ink", it not only details composition of shots, but also lighting and perspective, and by what I'm seen a myriad of different things.

parkablogs.com/content/book-review-framed-ink-drawing-and-composition-visual-storytellers

Haha, aww.

Well dang.

You got yourself a subscriber, bro.

Dude, I hope you know this channel's gonna be huge. Also, comic professionals are gonna love the fuck out of you, because you make them look like geniuses. Not saying they aren't smart, but what what I'm gathered from artists that started from a young age, it's all rather intuitive. You've just help break down, in a way the layman can understand why their panelling/composition is so damn effective. Well done.

Thanks a lot :)

As I say I picture the artists like cinematographers. There's a lot of decisions that go into a panel and you can really agonise over it - or you can just draw and get the basic content across. Some are just lucky enough to make the latter look like the former!

Oh, if only I could be so lucky! Seeing them as cinematographers is cool, they both focus how visuals are displayed to an audience. I should do reseach on that. (Any resources you would reccomend?)

What's next on the list of topics you want to cover SPN?

Bump

They're also directors, they choose the expressions and body language and yadda yadda yadda.

Like Byrne always featured Wolverine cause he wanted to promote a Canadian hero
>And Chris told me at one point, “We’re going to write Wolverine out because we don’t know what to do with him. And I stamped my little foot and said there is no way you’re writing out the only Canadian character. And so I made him mine. Whenever I do a group book I make one character mine and sort of focus on that character so I have a focus for the book.”

Why Lemire's run is so bad?

Dang.
That wasn't stupid.

Hes a hack who jacks off on Clint bashing. Like Bendis.

Good stuff OP.

I need more comics like Hawkeye, any recs?

Fucking corporate editors are cocksuckers. When King hits the gas he can drive a beautiful book.
Batman was so disappointing and I feel like it's because DC was going, "Make it dumber. Dumber! Still not dumb enough!"
"B-but I want to actually tell a story..."
"Who wants a story? Make it fast and exciting and fill up your pages with massive panels and just blow the pacing out its ass. You think you're still writing Vision?"

It's not just the faces bro. Did you even watch the video?

>bro

Sis?

Definitely something on colour theory. Something on mood. I have a couple of ideas for short content too, just like a couple of minutes on the opening of All-Star Superman for example.

For research try anything by Bordwell and Thompson. They are great.

Yep very good point. They kind of have to be all encompassing.

To me it jist lacked heart in the writing. Which is a shame, because Lemire at his best is all about heart (Essex County).

Thanks!

Hmm. Well if you haven't read it, the Iron Fist run with Fraction and Brunner a few years ago is great, too.

Why hire King and do that. That's what's so confusing.

If you're taking suggestions, are you doing anything by Chris Ware? That guy is probably my favorite artist, and certainly my favorite layout man.

>it's more a southern gothic fairytale
THANK YOU. Finally someone gets it.

King's posts where? Anyway, though it's not as great as Vision, Grayson and above all Omega Men, I liked King's Batman for what it was (a big, loud action comic).

Hm, I learned something. Neat.

Seriously bro

It wasn't bad by any means, it was actually pretty decent and one of the best Batman issues in a while (not saying much though). It did get a bit heavyhanded in one scene though. But King has just built up a kind of reputation of himself that people were just expecting a lot more and seeing a standard cape comic made them pretty disappointed. And there's also the folks not familiar with King's work that only know of him from the hype and it didn't get close to the quality he was hyped up about. That being said, I think it will get better as it goes a long and will end up a decent run. Maybe not as great as some of his other comics, but still decent to read.

>Why hire King and do that.
I mean, he was already working for them. In fact, his best work has been with them.

I really, really, really want to tackle something in Building Stories. It's just trying to figure out how to do it in a digestible way under 10 minutes.

>Why hire King and do that.
That's probably not what they're doing. The only reason they even put him on batman is because they know he is talented and want his name out there because Batman sells. And his editor is DOyle who seems to give most creative freedom amongst the DC group editors. So, it's just what King wants to write. People are tripping over themselves trying to find a way to shift the blame from King.