Is healthcare a right?

Is healthcare a right?

Or is it a service offered by those who have dedicated their time, money, and efforts, to learning the field and should be able to offer their services to consumers for whatever they and the free market dictates?

Health care should be provided by the state, but if a doctor wants to have his own hospital he should be free to do so.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, cunt

i was thinking about this song all day long thanks OP

I haven't seen a human right that you need to coerce another human to give you in order to claim it

Damn it. Now I'm gonna this song stuck in my head all night. Thanks alot.

You don't need to coerce anyone to have free healthcare, building public hospitals doesn't force anyone to work there.

Also I bet a lot of doctors would prefer to just indiscriminately help people, I doubt they go to med school to just earn money from patients.

np bb

only the free market could possibly organize a system productive enough to supply products and services to the majority of people at reasonable prices. The problem with healthcare is that the government is too involved.

You assume the demand for doctors by government build hospitals will be met. What if it isnt, and theyd rather work in the private sector?

The government would just have to make a better offer or end the free healthcare plan. That would happen.

So healthcare wouldnt be a universal right then. If it was, coercion would be necessary to fulfill that right

it's an entitlement

Well you don't have to coerce anyone to be police officers, and protection by the law is also a right. I'm not sure what you're arguing here, if healthcare was a right the government would most certainly have doctors to work for them, since the government has virtually infinite funding and could pay their doctors a fuck ton.

>protection by the law is also a right
not in america it isn't
police have no duty to protect. for example If someone is stabbing you to death the police are not required to stop the stabbing from occurring, if someone is robbing a bank the police don't have to stop the robbery from taking place. The job of the police is to apprehend the criminal

its important to remember when people complain about the police, they do a lot more for us than they are required to

>infinite funding
No they don't, what about taxes. You dont have the "right to be protected by the law", either you follow the law or the state punishes you

>Is healthcare a right?

Positive rights are slavery.

huh for some reason i thought this song was incredibly obscure

Well then, if the police only job in America is to apprehend criminals I'm surprised people talk about "serve and protect" so much.

I see brazil is here discussing healthcare, economics, etc. Tell ya what get some clean tap water, get the bodies out of your rivers, quit being a shit hole and then you can talk to the 1st world countries.

>All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

That is an universal human right.

The right to a public defender

Like primary education, baseline healthcare is a civic duty. I'm not a particular fan of the Supreme Court's habit of constructively re-interpreting the constitution to invent new rights because, frankly, it is unnecessary. The political atmosphere mandates government provision of services which the people deem basic and in re-interpreting the constitution in this way, Justices (who answer to no one) are playing at law maker without the appropriate checks and balances.

If healthcare is a right then I can force a surgeon to perform an operation on me. Doing so deprives that surgeon of his liberty and is contradictory to the constitution.

Health care is not a right.

By your logic you should quit opining on European politics since their quality of life is much better than yours.

Why can't we have public and private hospitals in the same country? Poorfags can go to the shitty public practices, wait five months for an MRI and die, and I can go get my scan the next morning with a private practice

Free healthcare does not equal doctors are forced to operate you. IF you say that people have the right to free healthcare treatment that just means the government has to provided it somehow, if a specific surgeon is not interested in saving your life, fine, the government will just have to find another one.

"Protection of the law" doesn't mean someone is obligated to save your ass from criminals, you idiots. It means that laws apply to everyone equally.

If you're marooned alone on a desert island, how do you exercise your right to free health care?

I'm saving this. To laugh at

Kek, you don't? If you end up alone in an island whatever rights you may have aren't really that relevant anymore.

Free healthcare =/= healthcare being a right
Either way, you cannot demand services from someone without compensating them for their time, that is called theft.

> if a specific surgeon is not interested in saving your life, fine, the government will just have to find another one.
And what happens when surgeons refuse to practice, you cant force them to if they dont want to. They can all go become fishermen if they desire, nothing is keeping them practicing medicine.

Good for you. Enjoy your sensible chuckle.

>If you end up alone in an island whatever rights you may have aren't really that relevant anymore.

I thought health care was a basic human right? It's funny, I'd still be able to speak out, practice my religion, etc.

Healthcare is a "right" insofar as every person should have access to largely unfettered, competitive markets, in healthcare and everything else, when possible.

The problem with American healthcare is two-fold, or rather was, before ObamaCare addressed the first issue:

>adverse selection, leading to the free rider problem
>the mccahan-ferguson act, exempting health insurers from most anti-trust regulation

The first problem, people deciding to not bother purchasing health insurance despite remaining part of the risk pool, was dealt with by way of the individual mandate, in the same way that liability auto insurance requirements were imposed by all the states. Nobody thinks he's going to be involved in an accident, but some people are, and when some of those accident participants are uninsured, premiums for those who are rise. Same principle in healthcare:

>uninsured person gets sick
>no insurance
>not eligible for medicare/medicaid
>"your total will be $245,000,123.67, sir"
>inna bankruptcy court
>government will only assume part of the debt
>premiums for insured persons rise
>lather, rinse, and repeat until healthcare costs are consuming 15% of gdp, healthcare costs are 75% of household bankruptcies, and 1 in 10 households is bankrupted.

However, when you're required to participate in a monoply healthcare market like America's (courtesy of McCahan-Ferguson), it doesn't really change the equation, because insurers don't have to compete. Obama realized this, and placed repeal of M-F alongside the individual mandate, but got fucked by his own party, specifcally Byron Dorgan, who was the healthcare industry's bagman in the Senate.

No one apart from Matt Taibbi noticed this, but Trump plans to repeal M-F upon assuming office. Ind. mandate that Trump's keeping + real competition = everyone getting affordable healthcare.

If you're alone sure, but what if some native people decide to enslave you? No more rights for you.

>alone

>universal rights are only valid if you can enforce them alone in islands
Is that what you're arguing for here?

Healthcare is not a right. You can't include the service of others as part of your own personal rights.

Unlike self defense and the right to carry weapons, this is something I could do myself and involved no help from others.

>itt huemonkey's critical thinking skills are crippled by zika

Congratulations, you've discovered positive and negative rights, and specifically, why the former doesn't exist.

"Free" healthcare is not a right. First and fucking foremost it is not free, just because the gov't, or someone else, pays for it does not make it free, that money has to come from somewhere.

Let's look at it like this; you and four others go on an expedition. You as the leader tell the others what provisions to bring. Two of your party don't bring said provisions. Both of the two break their legs the same day of the expedition, one while carrying a log, the other jumping into a shallow river for fun. You can only help one, which do you chose? It's a somewhat loaded question but you see where it's going...

Should I have to help meth head Mike cause he made dumb choices in life?Should I help blue collar Bill because he was injured I a contributing manner?

If you can't "afford" something, it isn't a human right. You can't talk/write, your fault (or shitty genetics), you don't own a gun, you can't even afford a place to live, etc.

No one in this world owes you shit, if you want to drink a 2 litre of faygo with your xxl pizza, fine on you. When your ass has diabetes and heart problems, it's your fault, you could have spent that money on health insurance.

And if you truly are a decent human that contributes to society and can't afford healthcare, well that sucks, but it isn't my problem. I work hard day in day out but I don't expect someone else to pay for my beer at the end of the day, cause it's NOT A HUMAN RIGHT.

a right?? the world owes us nothing. the only right we have is to prosper according to our abilities, or to be crushed by those better equipped. If anything, healthcare should be forbidden for a few generations to purify the gene pool.

All I know is that I got charged $430.00 for a 5 minute doctor visit wherein he took a needle and failed to drain an abscess. I had to pay $230 because of my awful shitty insurance. So something is horribly wrong. I pay Like $500 a month for this terribly, high deductible insurance. If we had socialized medicine I KNOW I WOULD NOT BE PAYING THIS MUCH

I guess what I am saying is either actually let the free market regulate medicine or socialize it. Either system would be better than the current monstrosity (or what came before it). Capitalism doesn't work if people can't make informed decisions.

...

Well I wasn't really arguing that it was a right I was saying we should socialize if it could mean that I wouldn't have to worry about going bankrupt because my daughter needs a $600 epipen. I definitely don't think it is a right, but that doesn't mean we can't decide as a society that it is worth paying for as an intelligent investment in the future.

OK the epipen won't drive me to bankruptcy but that and the kidney stone surgery jesus fucking christ that shit is expensive