Ask a ex-muslim anything. Either you want to know more about it...

Ask a ex-muslim anything. Either you want to know more about it, my reasons for leaving the religion or about what's going on in the world linked with Islam.
> trolls will probably be ignored

why you leave islam?
which sect did you belong to, sunni, shia, what?
how old are you? between 20-25, or 26-30
what does your family think?
what race are you? asian, arab, slav
have you tried bacon and beer yet?
how big is your phalus?

is your famalam gonna kill your ass now?

How long until your family behead you for leaving islam?

How do we convince more Muslims that Iskam is probably not real, that Muhammad is not a good role model, that sharia society imagined in the 7th century is not a good way to run society, that Islam tells you to do evil things like murder people who convert away from Islam, or any combination of these or other things?

How many percent of muslims do you roughly think are ready to kill for religion?

>that sharia society imagined in the 7th century is not a good way to run society
islamic law is much more complex than muh sharia, there's definitely room for improvement but it's not as primitive as we think it is

Do you think all Muslims should denounce their religion?

>t. ahmed

>Philosophical reasons, mostly, I will explain it if this really matters.
> Sunni
> I'm 21, studying
> My family is as sad as it could be about it, but they don't show me shit and know that they couldn't really argue with my logic. So it's like "It's all good, it's your opinion", while they believe I will end up in hell or something like that. I think they will remind me of my theological choice everytime I'll do something wrong. Anyway, already noticed the looks I get.
> Arab, son of migrants, my father came in the 80's
> Yup, both pleasant.
> I don't know, how long can you take it in ?

There is no real solution, it all lies in knowledge and will to live. Jew and Christians are still alive, aren't they ? After being shamed for their geocentric beliefs about the universe, for the evolution, etc. Yet they still believe.
There is no ultimate way of dissolving the religion, it all depends on the person really.


I'm taking my time to thoroughly answer to others.

>Ex-Muslim

How long do you expect to live until you get found out and honor killed?

>not reading about one of the most important religions around
you can do better norgebro

How come you people only go after whites? How come your kind doesn't attack yellow niggers or spics. I know niggers are considered your bros since your thinking is alive and you both chimp out like monkeys when superior whites use logic on you. And I mean superior whites as in alpha conseravite/republican whites not the libtard beta faggots.

It's nice that you left islam but could you also leave our country?

Do you still hate israel?

>trolls will be ignored
This entire imagebaord is one giant trolling project.

I don't know, I don't know what you're thinking but most of muslims are stupid people believing in what their fathers gave them, they lack religiosity and spirituality. They don't think of killing people, etc. While they do believe being a non-believer is bad, etc.
So the real limit between a killer and a simple-minded muslim is between the brainwashing, if they're led to think that westerner are the cause of every wrong in the world, and if they're given the means to kill, they will do it. (Most people believe it's because of their spirituality, the promise of being in paradise, etc. but it's rather brainfeeding than that)

Not really, but they ought to think it. To think the reasons some muslim became what we know of them : Extremists and the worst scum of killers in the middle-east.

m8 you're so right there's so many answers I can't even say if they're serious or not

Religion and religious institutions need to be in a constant state of reform.
Religion will not go away, we need to engage it, deal with it and make sure its in the right hands.

Is there any chance your family will harm you? I know it probably doesnt seem possible but i bet many of the honor killed girls thought this way as well.

do you believe there is a way to stop the islamization of europe and get rid of the islamic sub culture without mass deportation?

>ex-muslim
Fake. Punishment for leaving Islam is DEATH. Don't listen to this taqiyya muslim.

Are other muslims immigrants leaving islam too?

I am trying to withdraw from all formalized methods of mass control. Fair play for getting out of religion.

I am finding capitalism or the mindless and obedient kind, a hard one to shake. Its so pervasive.

do you believe there wiill ever come a tiime when islam will attempt to kiill you for leaving? Are any of the muslims you knew / know the types that would kill you for leaving?

kek

What's the difference in the view of Hadith between Shia and Sunni?

Basically, if I argue that Sahih al-Bukhari contains shitty statements that encourage violence, would that criticism apply to both Shia and Sunni?

The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to c awl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

> "How come you people only go after whites?"
> Thinking we are all a community with the same objective, linked with gene or whatever

I can't say if this is b8 or not, are you serious about this question ?

Nee.

I don't know, I've never hated it. I do hate their war because I'm against violence but I don't know, it's a country like any other.

Pressuring religion will only be motive for extremists to kill.

Nope, but I could be beaten or hurt, I lived with muslim friends for my entire life, my doubt of theism popped in my head when I was 16 years old. I've only admitted it since a year because I'm less conflicted with all that.
I've always lived in Belgium and without a father at the age of 10 so that might help.
But yeah, I am already getting the pity and the hate of others, that might lead to something but I don't care, I've outlived the fear of God, I will not die because of some religious stupid fucks.

Not really, Islamization is a big word, really, since they are only a few who did "accept" the message of Islam. But the solution is in knowledge, as sad as it could seem, helping the two world collide and share thoughts will help the Muslims assimilate and it will dissolve in centuries of work. So many people live in sub-urbs and they are led to believe that "white folk" are doing it on purpose (while this might have been true a decade ago) and that's leading to problems, to migrants doing crime because "they're fighting the current system which is against us", just like the italian mafia justified their crimes, and so does the ghettos in the U.S.A
For now on, the confrontation of Islam and Europe will only lead to oppositions, coming from both sides. Hopefully there is also peaceful people in both sides who will make it work.

tl:dr Gentle assimilation, a small pressure to never let Islam get first against the democracy and it should work

I really don't know, I've made the decision myself. The only other person who helped me is my older cousin who is an agnostic, he's far more literate than me and criticized the religion since its roots. I am a little less agressive, I don't want to fight others for their belief.

That's the spirit, but you could never evade some things... Capitalism is one of them, the constant dichotomy between sharing and selling is making money and dreams, we are in between capitalism and communism, not specifically but we are in a vicious circle which is making us taste both. You can't get out of there, really. There is no country without the capitalism and it's alter-ego, it's a pure hegemony.

Welcome to logic based morality

Try not to fall into degenerate (((traps)))

And don't rape anything ffs

Where are you from? Born here?

>small pressure to never let Islam

Isn't this going to be presented as oppresion of Islam by the kuffar?

Check here weedbro

>I've always lived in Belgium and without a father at the age of 10

If you know a little bit about Shia and Sunni, you can understand it's an ideological fight. So that's what will matter in the interpretation, to get an approval of the prophet in your own idea of Islam.

I like your thinking, Sahih Al-Bukhari made certified hadiths, the name is probably the best among sources, so if you quote it, I should be understood as real hadith for both, that's theory. However when you speak about it, you will get denial, "it's a misinterpretation" "problem in the translation", etc. (while these excuses might be true sometimes, they're just overused) I've witnessed it myself, in a far more generalized way, I can say that people will only believe what they want to believe.

I'd say it's not a safe game you're playing, if you're intending to use it to shame Islam, you will get disapproval, violences, etc. And no one will help you, besides racists who don't understand a thing of what you're getting into. Not your people, because they don't want to confront with Islam, and certainly not other religions.

>I can't say if this is b8 or not, are you serious about this question ?

Asians hate mudslimes more than Whites.

So how much hate have you recieved from white people so far you nigger.

You fucking PİG you deserve death how can you do such a thing to yourself and your family? You have no shame dont you how can you look upon anothers eyes when you turn your back on Allah? How are you different from an animal please tell me, you really cannot make namaz 5 times a day, be charitable, make something of your life, make pilgrimage when you are capable and fast? You really cannot be a man who cares about peace? You really cannot be a man who respects fitrah(nature)? When you are ready to be a man, when you are ready to join your family and all other people with a brain, a heart and the ability to feel then you come back to islam, this is only your immaturity that is showing which you will regret. Grow up and join your brothers, you are pathetic!

When I meant small, it's like invisible pressure. I'm not talking about oppression of minorities, but religious people tend to want the world shaped in their ideology, just like Christianity would have made abortion impossible if it was only for them. For Islam, I don't believe in oppression of their religion, but regulation of any political thinking that might be against democracy and free-speech. However provocation and violence against them are dangerous because it shapes the Muslim to think he will never be accepted in the country. (which might lead to extremism)

As much as you can imagine, I could greentext some moments but I don't believe in victimization.
> muh sadness, muh discrimination
So how much hate have you sent to arab people, you wigger ?

>> Thinking we are all a community with the same objective, linked with gene or whatever
Why do you think this happens with islam so much? Even the strongest antisemites can find a poor jew and not readily believe that that particular jew is part of the global conspiracy to give his wife the BBC or whatever. but why could people be so prone to assuming that all muslims are the same, and islam itself is an explicit terror group with clear organizational structure, and not just another religion?

Would you consider the French ban on face coverings in public places to be a small pressure?

When you were a Muslim, what sort of beliefs did you have about those who openly criticised your religion?

How did you feel about the massive amounts of terrorism coming from Muslim communities?

Also, what's your definition of a Muslim?

Social psychology studies have shown that we can't really recognize faces of a person from an exo-community, meaning we only manage to recognize people close to us, it's a genetic capacity, it's rather sociological (meaning you could be black and recognize white people if you lived with them)
With the migration of Arab people from Africa to everywhere around the western world, you can only get that biased thought to generalize people into one single group, while they are all different.

> inb4 : ok but why it's this way around and not arab generalizing white ?
While this does happen, you must understand that they're a difference in the scale of powers, north-Africans are coming to the western civilisation, not the other way around.

Also, the lack of understand of these north-Africans culture doesn't help. So many people tend to see things in the media and distance themselves from any migrant/etc. If you can't concretize your thoughts into a person, you will only be delusional and believe "every muslim is .... " "they do that, and that" etc.

It's big pressure actually. it's a contradiction with the own western constitution which let people live their religion, it's that kind of stuff that makes Muslims think they're victims in the french system. I do hate face covering but it's a shame to "show" to Muslims that they're not welcome, this is the kind of stuff that makes Muslims distance their identity from "being French"

.

Have you came to Christ yet?

What will you feel while your former mosque buddies are hanging in our trees everywhere?

You've got nice questions my friend.
I've always felt contradictions in the religion as a whole, and my Islamic teacher never helped me, some were wise and understanding, others were looking at me as a crazy khofar when I pointed out a certain contradiction in Islam itself.
I don't like to shame a religion, but I will answer you question.

> Why would God, a perfect being who doesn't need no one, create a world to adore him, if not for desire ? If "He" has a will to desire, he desires something, admitting He lacks something, therefore He is not perfect.
> Why am I given a free thought by God if I am supposed to believe in him ? Does that mean that I am allowed to disbelieve in Him ?
Theologically, the answer given is "it's only a test, bro" but I don't like this answer.
> How does "bad" exists ? If we assume that God knows everything, He knows the future, how did he deliver books for us to practice while knowing we would read them wrongly ? Here, the religious answer would be "but God did not make vice, we are doing it" which is admitting that God doesn't know everything since He gave us books not knowing he would read them like that.

Most of them questions are answer by religious by "The Lord's mysterious ways" which also stupid for me since That Lord is the one i'm supposed to believe in, He couldn't have asked us to believe in Him if He doesn't come clean, right ?

I do believe in a God, but in a Spinozist way, that is all and that doesn't have intentions.

About the massive amounts of terrorism, it's political, I blame stupid individuals, and poor politics from European countries and the U.S.A from 1950 and even earlier. You should read about the genesis of Wahabism and its support in the last century it's amazing to see the roots of terrorism. It's all a big mess.

And my definition of being a Muslim is : Someone dedicating his life to live by the Quoran(which implies reading it lol), and adoring Allah and His prophets.

fuck off, christnigger.

are you implying you will spare me ? How sweet of you, sadly I do not give sympathy for killers or stupid people and you seem to fit in both.

(I'm adding a little more because I believe it's an important question)

The definition of being a Muslim is important because it excludes many people from being Muslims, there are very few Muslims by my definition, because most of them never made Islam a choice, it's just a norm to stick by because of cultural inheritance. Being a Muslim implies a choice of doing so, while so many people never made it, how hypocrite can you get when you believe in something from birth, that implies that you've never made it a important choice in your life, but rather a stupid familial lack of choice, caused by sociological determinism.

If someone says he's a Muslim, I will ask him if he reads the Qoran, if he practices it and what is the root of his belief. They always peel off after a few questions tho' they will tell me stuff like " It's my belief and you can't prove you're right" and I would give him a few facts about Islam and the person will either tell me to shut the fuck up or to prove my facts. (While I have my sources from the Qoran and the Sunna)

> I blame stupid individuals, and poor politics from European countries and the U.S.A from 1950 and even earlier.
>The muslim terrorists are just stupid individials, but the kuffar are really at fault.

Oh, well. At least you tried.

>Wigger
Because I use the word nigger? Lol niggers.
And for as far as I'm concerned only a few times.
I was generally very nice to sandniggers now I have my doubts. But if you aren't a muslim anymore you are probably not that bad almost welcome even. You're still a nigger though.

How much has this guy influenced your decision to become secular?

Do you think the Sykes-Picot borders are a part of the reason why the Middle East is burning today?

> Booh, I said that I'm not a muslim but I can't criticize the west because it will reveal that I'm lying.

Keep on crying hen, I have based opinions and I am trying to be an objective person. You believe in that "that's us against them" bullshit George Bush made you believe well it's far more complicated than that. Get to know some informations about the deal between U.S.A and the royal families of arab countries, get to see the atrocities that some Europeans did during colonisation and post-colonisation and you could only be a liar not understand the fault at both sides.
I'm actually reading an awesome book about Hatred, "Le discours de la haine" by Andre Glucksman I don't know its title in English, but I suggest you have a look. That's probably the best answer to why terrorism is an option for a part of the world.

Sorry to say that he did not influence me at all. Psychology and philosophy influenced me.

And to your other question, no. I don't think so. I believe most of the reasons are in early post-colonialism which has an impact until now (because no one is taking the matter seriously at the moment for all I know, some politicians think we should strike first, some other believe there is nothing to be afraid off... both sides lack the historical understanding to give this situation a good solution)

>give this situation a good solution

What would a good solution look like?

How would you like to chop your wife's head off?

inb4 > secularl for philosophical reasons

>Important

Fuck off akbar

The one that should free African countries from the western pressure, I don't believe in reparation, but I do think that a pure emancipation of these countries and freeing the arab market and getting better relation than these contracts made to get oil and other ressources.
This might seem unfair to Europe and the U.S.A, but it will pay off since Arab countries will finally be free to live by their own model rather than trying to copy London, Paris and New York model, they will rebuild their countries, make the economy slowly better (leading to less migrations from poor countries to western world), and hopefully a less oppressive relation with the westerner will make the Muslims from these countries back off. Egypt tried that early on (1860, Muhammad-Ali's Dynasty) and got rejected by Europeans in a poor attempt, which made the Arab world believe they will never be accepted as equal by Europeans. A change in this state of mind is necessary to avoid any confrontation, just have a look at Japan, while it did fought off the western capitalism at first, it created a model equivalent and ultimately got superior at a few domains, all while not losing its culture to get assimilated in the big hegemony.
The same move should be done in the Arab world, but that would imply giving "carte blanche" to Arabs, which is a big turn-off to Europeans politicians.

As for religion, I still believe knowledge will slowly dissolve it. But religion is a sociological event that's not getting off our culture so soon, even if atheism is dominant and prevalent to our minds. Note that religion is already questioned in North-Africa, you just don't know about it. Countries like Tunisia, for instance.

>their own model

Like what, exactly?

> just have a look at Japan

Japan is literaly a client state of the USA. They have no foreign policy that is not OK's in Washington. Is that really something that would be an accepted state in the arab world?

>Countries like Tunisia, for instance.

Why is it the highest source of foreign fighters for ISIS then?

> Like what, exactly?
I can't say, I don't know much about economy. All I understand is that at the moment, politics are driven by money, the idea of fighting off the western world (or the contrary, being accepted which is not better) I can't just imagine a whole system by myself, all I know is that many relations are making the Arab countries shit on their own countries.
Basically my idea is creating a declaration of neutrality for them, making less political choices shaped by foreign relations. (That also implies making U.S.A. get the fuck out of some countries because "we're delivering muh freedom" )

> Japan is literally a client state of the USA.
I meant historically, not in a current state of events. And it is not completely true (while not being entirely false, I give it to you)


> Why is it the highest source of foreign fighters for ISIS then?

Messed up country post-liberation that have nothing, while some people live their usual poor life (I believe a month's salary is 150e there) some will accept to work for Isis because of the conditions Isis is offering, add a nice brainwashing and it does work. Tunisia is in a critical point, you might think it's getting better after Ben Ali, but it's not really true.
I don't like to justify terrorists why sociological problems but I do believe that terrorism is bound to happen when you live in the poorest city and get to see westerner living the good life while bombing "your brothers" in religion.
Note that most terrorists doing hits in Europe are Europeans and son of immigrants like me, a little bit older maybe.

Are you done with it or do you do circle jerking with other ex-muslims over how shit your former religion is?

Done with it, if someone wants to ask me my reasons we will discuss it but I don't give a shit about it, I don't give shit about my former religion, I'm living my life, getting a degree and seek for my own truth.
I will not mind having to chat with religious people, while I don't expect much from them.

>Basically my idea is creating a declaration of neutrality for them, making less political choices shaped by foreign relations.

You are asking that the entire middle east and north africa, and probably more, be almost isolated from the world until they can get their shit together. When has this been possible in the history of mankind?

>I meant historically, not in a current state of events.

Still not a very good example. Their attempt to survive against the west indebted them so much that it triggered a militarist takeover. Everyone knows how it went from there.

>Note that most terrorists doing hits in Europe are Europeans and son of immigrants like me, a little bit older maybe.

That's way worse, though. Getting attacked by foreigners is one thing, getting attacked from within is another.

By the way, would you report it to the police if you heard someone you know talking about commiting attacks?

How did you and your peers (such as your teacher or imam or who you mentioned) define jihad?

So is it true that islam is in fact a dying religion?

Is this push for Europe one last blow before we become independent from ME oil?

are you white?

Just wanted to say that I admire your strength. My grandfathers left Catholicism and I know it was hard, but someone in the family tree has to do it.

Are you a chick or a dude? If you're a chick did you ditch it so you could get a better position in society/life?

Not isolated, emancipated from Westerner pressures for oil, "democratic purposes" (ex. George Bush, Bush, Sarkozy et Bernard-Henri Levi), that doesn't implying cutting off every relation to make them a circle for themselves. The thought in it is that when doing so, you let them live by their own rules (as long as it doesn't threaten the others nation or even its own nation by the watch of UN and other world associations)

Okay, let's forget Japan if this is such a bad analogy, sorry about that. You seem to get my point thought.

Jihad is greater than the common knowledge of it, it means "fighting" or "struggling ". It could be a personal fight, it's could be against the sin, live is a Jihad for instance if you are seeing many vices in your life and you are fighting to avoid doing them. I recall one of my teacher (who teaches a modern and tolerant islam) talking about how being an muslim homosexual could be a jihad if you happen to endure the desire to be with another man while not falling to this desire.
But what're you expecting is probably the usual answer : Jihad can also be fighting off ennemies of Islam, ISIS would probably describe themselves as Jihad, it's struggle to provide Islam in your life if I could define it in my own words, do not take it as the best definition.

>emancipated from Westerner pressures for oil

Aaand this is where the project completely collapses.

Let's pretend that it doesn't though; do you believe that the society that emerges from this internal rearrangement of the middle east would be friendly to europe and america, despite all the history? Do you think that it would be more islamic or less? How do you know it wouldn't collapse into civil war? It's not like the arabs all love each other.

Also, where is Israel in this?

Yes and no, the real change here is the possibility to doubt religion, I have the right to change positions, which I did. But very few will do it by themselves. It will take a few generation to go away and be "normal" to quit his religion. Nobody wants to face the consequences right now, it means turning against your family and your friends.

N-No ?

Man I needed that, thank you. I don't talk to my single mother anymore, and my big sis is making me seem like a rebellious crazy.

A man, and yes probably, I would lie to myself if I told you that I never thought about it. But that doesn't change my life, because I'm still a sandnigger for people and I am still being judged for it, there is no escape for it really. I'm not seeing the advantages of doing it right now, I'm only taking the risk but that might happen some day. But i'm still seen as your usual sandnig in the street so...

How are Russians and Baltics seen in islamic world

CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGES MAH BOI
Sorry for the troll, I actually enjoy talking with you because I predict the answers you're giving me (besides that Japon fact, nice one)
You're basically saying that they shouldn't be left alone because they would destroy themselves and back and forth. What these countries, your kid or what ?

What you're not seeing is the colonialist thought that's behind it, the same one that is making more terrorists, how are you (not especially you) to judge these countries ? Are some kind of teacher how decides of these countries ?
The same colonialist thought created wars and destroyed many Arabs countries to make them into what they're right now.

While western countries do have much to teach to the world, despite that they can't force them to that. Adaptation to modernity is a process, which takes steps in many domains. Countries could support each other, but not force each other.

Remember, history is recalled so we don't make the same mistake twice.

What about Israel, tho ? Do you want my opinion on the whole Israel - Gaza conflict ?

Also I forgot to mention something :
>By the way, would you report it to the police if you heard someone you know talking about commiting attacks?

You're an asshole for asking that. That's one of those things that will never worn off from some afraid westerner that don't get it. It falls into what I was saying to in here People will always see you as a sort of "monster muslim", inferring some opinions I don't even have, thinking I will help killers and shit. But I'll stop.

>You're basically saying that they shouldn't be left alone because they would destroy themselves and back and forth.

Not at all. I ask you if you think it is even possible for the arab states, in their current state, to bounce back without foreign interference. You're simply putting words and judgments into my mouth.

You accuse colonialism of all the evils in the middle east, but do you think that the local are completely blameless for the state of their countries? That's a strech.


>What about Israel, tho?

It's a big destabilazing fator, allegedly. How do you see it in this hypothetical middle east left on its own?

>You're an asshole for asking that.

I didn't infer anything. I asked you directly a yes or no question.

In your opinion, is Islam fundamentally incompatible with Western philosophy (i.e. objectivism, individualism, liberty, capitalism, etc.)? Why do you think Westerners do not understand this (regardless of whether your answer to the first question was yes or no). Please explain. Thanks!

>I'm still a sandnigger for people and I am still being judged for it, there is no escape for it really

Bingo! Up until when communism fell the divide was between rich and poor, east and west, class struggle. Now the divide is much more fragmented among ethnoreligious groups. Blacks and whites and latinos in America, muslims in Europe etc. In it's core it's still a class thing but noone sees it that way any more. Everybody demonises everybody and I think the conflicts this time will be more brutal even genocidal.

Do you see officially segregated communities and civil war as the new reality in Europe?

I believe that these countries should be free to fuck up. As much as the others, yes, there might be world intervention if a country happen to weaponize itself to fight a war, the "big brothers" might shut it but that doesn't imply any abuse.

About Israel, I do believe there is inequality of treatment in both sides, and that this fight is being unfair. I think that if we let Arab countries alone, they will fight Israel but I don't see it as a bad thing, Israel has been abusing of Palestine and it's fact. I don't believe in the destruction of Israel or anything like that, but they shouldn't be allowed to bomb everything without any kind of warning from other countries.

You did infer, this whole question is implying something about my opinions, something you would have never asked if I weren't an arab ex-Muslim to you; it's alright I am not saying you're racist or anything, don't go crying, you just did it, now you're realizing what biais you have against me.


I wish to answer your question the most exhaustive answer. Let me answer to others and get your question.

Why are you still alive? Punishment for leaving islam is death.

What is your honest opinion about "islam is a religion of peace"? Do you agree with pic related about 2/3 of muslims agreeing with sharia?

>I think that if we let Arab countries alone, they will fight Israel but I don't see it as a bad thing,

>there might be world intervention if a country happen to weaponize itself to fight a war, the "big brothers" might shut it but that doesn't imply any abuse.

So if Arab states attack Israel, you approve of foreign intervention against them?

You'll have to clarify this a bit.

>it's alright I am not saying you're racist or anything, don't go crying, you just did it, now you're realizing what biais you have against me.

The question is there to gauge if your country or your tribe comes first to you. There is no wrong answer, imo. You can say "no, I wouldn't".

I'm sorry, I'm not a neo-marxist. I do not believe it's caused by a fight between the rich and the poor. It's rather a political messed caused by the will to provide for the cost of the colonisations, as they wanted to wash off their guilty, Europeans countries welcomed many north-Africans to work for them and get good money, a better life, house(s). But they did not understand the implication of it, entrepreneurs did their thing and got workers for absolutely nothing, they did what they could to provide them poor houses and stuck them in suburbs, created whole communities in their own country. They did not expect these migrants to stuck with their cultural, religious code and make a whole exo-community in their own country. The consequences are what we're living : Migrants thinking they're not welcome here because they are thrown to the side in cheap ghettos, Natives making assumption of that new community without understanding it (because they're a closed circle thrown in their suburbs), and the vicious cycle goes on. That's what we're living.
But yes I see that segregation is a big part of the new reality in Europe, we see the same fact and interpret them otherwise, that's okay though, I don't think we're opposed.

Don't know whether the question has been asked. In case it has (ctrl+f didn't help) please guide me to your answer.
What's your opinion on the million of rapefugees currently coming to europe? Trojan horse, or long time blessing?

What's the end game of it though? Pogroms are a thing all across the world. If this downward spiral continues things will get really nasty.

What do you see as the best way to deconvert Muslims?

For instance, I usually bring up things such as Muhammad's pedophilia, or the fact that he claims the Bible is the word of Allah > nothing can corrupt Allah's words > therefore the Bible is still valid and since it contradicts Islam, Islam is false

But it's like I'm talking to a stone wall

Yes, it is incompatible. I do not like this easy analogy but just like Christianity is incompatible. If you get to know the Qoran, you will see many contradiction to our Western way of life. But modern Islam is slowly getting itself to adapt to the course of Western philosophy, the only thing decelerating this movement is conservative Muslims who are doing their best to avoid getting their islam "soiled" by Westerner and that's also a justification of war against the khofar but that's not the main point, all terrorists are conservative, but not all conservative are terrorist, not at all.

It's philosophically incompatible because of their priority : the after-life, to get to the after life you must follow the code of Qoran guiding you through good and bad. That already destroy individualism since you can't act for your own self. (but to be fair, Islam is really suggesting a strong community and solidarity)
It is totally against liberty is your follow it thoroughly (which nobody does anymore, that's a good thing), the troll question since the beginning of the thread is : why are not killed yet for leaving the religion ?
Which is a real question, people who choose to abandon that part of their identity will die if they are in a muslim pro-sharia country.
The Sharia, let's talk about it : It is less violent than you might have heard, but it is still incompatible to our western civilisation since death-penalty is not allowed, note that accusing someone of a crime is a real deal for muslims, you can't just say things like that, you must base your accusation with 4 witnesses.

About capitalism and economy, while there is nothing wrong with doing business, you can't do business with people selling alcool or not halal food (against, that's theoretical because people do it atm), you can't have financial interest (many muslims still ask for money from banks that does it in Europe )

What else do you need to know ?

Its only punishable by death in sharia countries, not in the west where common and statute law is the law.

The end of the game will be something Sup Forums hates, but they will not be there to witness it. Better relations, leading to less tension, mixte mariage, leading to even less tensions and more understanding.

Not a blessing, not terrorists. They are leaving a country of blood, a warm welcoming and probably help will make them stick by the country they're in, but after that there is no way of saying if there is hidden terrorism in the whole mass of people, or soon-to-be terrorism. Until now, I'm quite content with the results, we've got millions of refugees and besides a few crimes, rapes, migrants have been behaving in their host countries. (Yeah, that sounded weird)
But I still think that Syria and other shithole should be helped rather than bombed at every city, if their country is safe, no reason to stay as refugee.

I can't answer that, really. I don't have the answer.


BTW : I'm reading through my comments and I am so sorry for the many mistakes I've made, I'm tired from writing, but thread is still on until I decide.

Did Muhammad's pedophilia bother you? I'm not trolling. I know you say philosophy is what led you away, but when you were still Muslim, how did you reconcile the fact that the Uswa Husana (most perfect example) was a child rapist?

Thank you for the answer. And you are right in that Christianity is also completely incompatible with modern Western ideals, notably liberty, capitalism, and individualism (I should have just grouped all of these under the broad category of "modernism" or "European enlightenment philosophy", not to be confused with post-modernism, which I personally feel is a lot of the cancer we see in the various troll posts these days).

I also appreciate your insight into the master/salve problem in Europe, and how many non-Europeans were brought into Europe to do the white-man's dirty work, but were somehow not expected to bring their culture, etc. We face a nearly identical situation here in America with blacks, although some of them (the ones called "Toms" by the real niggas) have assimilated into white culture, whereas others are militantly opposed to doing so (e.g. BLM).

One completely unrelated question I have, which you may or may not have insight into, depending on how well you know your history, is this: why do you think that Islam went from a culture (I use this word instead of "religion", acknowledging that Islam is much more than what Westerners would typically think of as religion) of intellectual curiosity in the 8th & 9th centuries, to one of intellectual disdain. In other words, why was knowledge (even from the infidels) sought after in distant times, but then (say by the 11th century) no longer of any interest?

>mixte mariage

Kek'd. Uppity Euros call Greeks Arab, Turk rape babies. Now the meme applies to them. Hahahaha. History is really ironic.

Are you an atheist now or open to other forms of theism? Apologies if this has been covered already, I only skimmed through the thread.

Not really, I believe it's a cultural thing to be offended by the age of their mariage. Muhammad's pedophilia (Some people are saying it is a big misunderstanding, I don't know so I'm not correcting you, just know that it's not a certified fact) is pretty normal for that time, it's around the same time when people were burying baby girls alive because it's a dishonor to have girl as the first child. (Muhammad fought all these barbaric acts, ironic that his religion is what we're seeing today)

I mean we could probably have a incestual or pedophile grand-grand-father somewhere along the way so no, being offended by Muhammad's pedophila is a cultural relativism. So yeah, I'm not ashamed of it, from what I know of his life, he does deserves to be called a prophet despite that. Maybe it's all made-up, but I would still tip my hat to what he represents.
(He did fight many wars tho' but he was a real example for others Muslims and you could probably see the love people have for him when you're mocking them for his pedophila)
Also, what you're doing is wrong but anyway.

That's pretty much my point of view as well.
You sound like a cool guy, stay the way you are.

Why do you think you're special?

Only vanilla-right idiots think the religion is the only problem.

The problem is a combination of your religion, your culture and your race.

Raus!

Do arab Muslims get along with black Muslims?

I really enjoy reading you. You seem very interested in the subject and that makes me despise the fact that I can't answer as thoroughly as I could in french, with a better spoken answer.
My point in last answer was that Islam is not compatible but it does adapt because people are still forced to live there, they abandon some part of being a Muslim to live in peace in a non-Muslim society ( not intentionally, a very few realize that). Just like Christians are forced to cope while we prone equality of gender (something Islam is very ambiguous about it), gay rights and abortion.
I'm also interested in these so-called "Tom", which is the same here. Actually it's a safe guess to say that it's in every community, it's always a dichotomy between the endo-group and the exo-group. If an Arab looking guy acts like a white native, he will also be mocked and it will be implied that he abandons his culture to the white's culture.

I don't have the answer to your last question, which is one of the best question of this whole board, I don't know your reason but you seem very studious about Islam and its relation to the western world. But I know that after the prophet's death, Islam was spread and while it was spread it refused to destroy previous culture but rather embrace it, which might be the first reason. But why did it stop ? I don't know, I could look it up but I will take me some time to have an real answer.

Can Islam go through the same reformation as Christianity has done in the past?

I'm still getting into that, I think I will read the three monotheism during this decade, and I will get a better opinion. Right now I can't admit that such a world is made up by bold luck, but I don't believe in monotheist gods that made the world for them to be adored, I believe in a God in all (not allah, lol ) something that holds the universe and decided of the essence of everything. (again, I'm very influenced by Spinoza in his own conception of the universe)

To sum it up, I'm against the first idea of monotheism which claims that God has no cause and did it for his sole purpose. I believe there a greater God, power, whatever, that made us as we are, and that we are bound to be here for something. To this day, I don't know more than that.

Also, what do you think about Trump's Muslim ban

Sofyan, zijde gij dat?

Yes. But it will only be done by themselves (which is already happening, since the young arab generation is way more rational than the old one), with the touch of western philosophy, they will rationalize the world and probably make a country out of these reforms. (Just like rousseau did in France before for instance). I'm not really an optimist so I'll say this will happen pretty late in the end of the 21th century but who knows really.

shitty, trump is quite stupid for me and we're not only talking about this thing specifically.
If this happens, this will probably be a reason for terrorists to go there and fuck up the country.