Can i have a redpill on NAFTA?

can i have a redpill on NAFTA?

why is trump against it? (i really wanna know)
who benefits currently from it and why?

what would happen if trump wins and decides to take america out of that treaty?

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Prob because WRTKN DER JRRBBBS!

If it means there will be no tax on importet goods between you 3, then it's a pretty good deal for Mexico

This

why is it called north american FREE trade agreement if its not actually free lmao

youtube.com/watch?v=eBPqksG9nbA

doesnt that just mean leaf and burger CEOs just move their factories to mexico for that cheap labour then enjoy no tax when they ship the goods back to their country?

That is exactly why dumbass, after NAFTA passed many companies took their factories to Mexico because they pay you guys $2 an hour and left many working class Americans jobless.
I am border Chicano, here in the South Texas border we used to have tons of factories where everyone worked and had decent pay and lifestyle. After NAFTA passed, everyone lost their jobs,after the companies just took their jobs to Mexico, and now the only jobs here are mostly minimum wage jobs. 27% of our population is under the poverty line now.
And it affected your farmers even worse, they cant compete with produce from American corporations so they got fucked, and that is why they cross the bored illegally to work in our farms.
tl;dr NAFTA fucked over the American working/blue collar class and the Mexican farmer

It hurt literally everyone except for the owners of multinational corporations.

That being said, Trump is still a moron even if he opposed NAFTA. In fact, the entire reason there's so many Mexican immigrants is BECAUSE of NAFTA. It put hundreds (possibly millions) of Mexican workers in agricultural out of work, resulting in them flooding into the US looking for work. Not because the Mexican government is "sending them over."

Bill Clinton even anticipated this crisis. Immediately before and after he signed the bill, he started militarizing the US-Mexican border, which, until that point (and the inevitable onslaught of unemployed workers), had never really been an issue of public concern. So, yeah, NAFTA is bad but Trump is still a fucking moron.

Alcatel Lucent where my father worked moved all their plants to Mexico a few years after it was passed. He was a quality engineer who worked for them for 12 years

That has to be the most retarded logic I've ever read. You call NAFTA bad and the reason for illegal immigration and then you say Trump is a moron because he's been saying that? Trump can't get in a time machine and fix it, but he's saying he wants to address the problem. How is that bad?

Trump is not stupid, his supporters are. That is why he promises Bernie proportion bullshit (Muh wall, deport 16 million illegals overnight) but he knows what he is doing and he does care about America, if not he would not fighting the trade deals that have fucked over the American working class. Now a lot of his supporters are retarded, which is why he says shit like muh wall or Mexico actively sending illegals, because the average Trumpster can not understand why we should oppose trade deals

>good explanation
>threw in 'Trump is dum' for no particular reason

Yes. It's good for mexico, bad for USA and Canada

Because jerbs. Donald will move the Sup Forums nerds to repopulate Detroit and become car factory workers.

was signed by bill clinton.
they want to create a north american union
similar to the eu
they want a new currency,the amero to replace the dollars and peso.
it's why they don't enforce the border.
oh and agenda 21 un bullshit

Yeah here in the border it fucked all of us, not just the factory workers from the working class, but people from the middle and upper middle class as well, like the engineers and the managers

>but he knows what he is doing and he does care about America, if not he would not fighting the trade deals that have fucked over the American working class

Let's dispel this fiction that Trump doesn't know what he's doing, he knows exactly what he's doing!

In all seriousness though, you're a complete retard

youtube.com/watch?v=L9inPBS98cs
Video explains nafta pretty well.

He has been talking about how these trade deals have been fucking America years before he even thought of running for president

That's what happens naturally in a free market economy through comparative advantages : while Mexico might have a comparative advantage to train employees in manual labor work, America (US & Canada) has a comparative advantage in high technology domains, services (like physicians/lawyers), finance, etc. All the parties profit from being more efficient at what they produce. Since for the US it takes less resources to train a astronaut than it does for Mexico, it would be a waste for the US' market to train a man in a manual labor instead (which is why factories are being transferred to Mexico).

Although it does obviously hurt these sectors of the US economy, the average overall wealth created by NAFTA is bigger than where NAFTA not in place.

Also, NAFTA doesn't affect the tax laws of the countries involved. If you live in Toronto, you still pay your taxes to the government of Canada, and having a factory in Mexico doesn't change that. The only thing that changes is that that your business in Mexico might be subject to taxes in Mexico.

>$2 an hour

ha, we wish. minimum wage here is 4 dollars a day.

You have to go back

Its garbage and

This is why.

When one country decides to focus on one industry while relying on others to control other necessary industries... bad things happen to each involved.
Ie, China.
Why the fuck would you put all your relience in someone else to make stuff for you?
Its just dumb.
Nations need to look at "vertically integrated manufacturing" for the prime example of how their economy should work.

My family has been in Southern Texas since it belonged to Mexico, we literally always been here, fuck off anchor baby

Get out of here with your logic and shittttt thei took Our our jebssssss

thanks guys, appreciate it

It means you get cheap goods thanks to low knowledge spics doing shit work for shit money. It also means you get plentiful high value jobs because there are no skilled engineers or programmers in Mexico

>average overall wealth

For whom?

Globalist elite and corporations

This is exactly what it means.

Here is a tip fellow burgers: when you go shopping for grocery products check and see how much of the produce is actually from Mexico.

If so much of our produce is already from Mexico, why are they flooding over the border to find work?

Really makes you think...

Ok shitskin

They fucked over Mexican farmers, they cant compete with produce from American corporations

>because buying stuff cheap is terrible
nice argument, mr. marx.

>redpilled

Vertically integrated manufacturing is less efficient than specialization for businesses because businesses have internal transaction costs (the cost of setting up your business) and if you multiply the sectors in which you do business, then it requires you to set up a new organisational structure every time as your business will function in different sectors, where the skills and efficiency developed in one sector (like services) won't be transferable to another (like extracting minerals). This means that you multiply the costs, while not getting the same benefits from them. You get less bang for buck in your business.

Also, your not the only business that will be working in your sector, which means you have to face competition (has does anyone on the free market). So your multi-sector enterprise will be less efficient than its competitors and you will fail.

Now, if you apply that at State level you end up with mercantilism. Since you can't afford to trade much with other Nations (because they would then own what you need to be self-sufficient and vertically integrate your State), you need the resoursces to back up your production. And unless you already have an Empire, you probably don't have the entire table of periodic elements under your land, which means you need to go to war, and acquire colonies with which you can trade internally. Because of that internal trade, which probably involves monopolies so that your most precious resources end up in your military to fund your wars and repeat the cycle, the prices raise. And they also raise because there is little to no competition with other nations. Now you end up with high prices, low innovation because there's no incentive for the private sector to compete with others internationally (or you end up with a lower rate of innovation), which means the poorer are worse off than they would have been had they lived under a free-trade agreement anyway, even if you disagree with those.

As much as it pains me to go against the most amazing economic doctrine that build the world's best empire and the very nation you inhabit, in this instance free trade is shit.

America has so many working class dumbshits who can do nothing but these crappy jobs, to suddenly fire them all at once means that all they can do now is smoke crystal meth and claim welfare. Companies may save money employing Mexicans instead, but at the end of the day the taxpayer foots the bill for the fallout.

It happened over here in the 80s when Thatcher closed the mines. Although they were run at a massive loss and it was a great victory to crush the corrupt and useless unions like she did, there was no alternative for the miners and so now we have entire cities of dole scum who have never worked a day in their lives because there are simply no jobs to be had. And yup - it's the middle classes paying their way too.

Certain sectors of the economy and those taking part in them. For Canada, the oil industry, the agricultural industry, minerals, etc., all of which increased their exports to the US. For the US, the automobile, plane, agricultural (as already cited) sectors have benefited from NAFTA. Both of those countries' investor and capital have also largely profited, as well as the high tech sector from NAFTA. Mexico has largely benefited from the investments of the US and Canadian corporations.

While you might see that the rate at which the shareholders of those corporation get wealthier is higher than the average worker's, and you might see a gap, keep in mind that both do get richer, one does not get richer at the expense of the other, since wealth isn't a 0 sum game. One doesn't get richer by stealing the slice of the pie, but by making the circumference of the pie bigger.

and they import Southerners for dirt cheap and house them in work camps comparable to a refugee zone. You don't have to drive too far from Cancun, Tulum, Puerto Ave to see this. Fuck you can see the camps on google maps.

Yeah but services rely on having a healthy economy. Not to mention your average person is not going to be a lawyer or doctor or wall street broker. Average people need jobs too.

>Donald will move the Sup Forums nerds to repopulate Detroit and become car factory workers.
And who is gonna bear those children? Care ladies?

I don't claim that NAFTA doesn't negatively affect those in labor intensive industries ; I'm just saying that the positives of free trade outway the negatives. For a simple example, trade has more than tripled between member States, and their overall GDP has more than doubled since the 1990s.

Now, those that lose their jobs because of that (like the miners) are part of the natural unemployment rate (structural unemployment), and they are to be expected, if you have any form of free trade at all. And to be more specific about this, since this is about NAFTA, only those people unemployed because of these reasons should be considered, not those unemployed for other, unrelated reasons.

Now, since everyone gets wealthier and tax rates don't really increase that much (at least in the US), the tax payers aren't really poorer because of that unemployment, though they still pay for the troubles caused. A possible solution would be to have negative tax rates like Friedman proposed (and eliminate tax credits and social welfare) so that those unemployed people get the money needed to secure a new education and change their sector of work.

I do understand that the money you get from that you wouldn't be able to afford an education under the US system, but that is less a problem with the free trade, than with the education system that is poorly conceived and thought through ; because when you think about having a service-based economy you need the members of your society to be well-educated and formed, but you can't have that if your government doesn't in some form ease the access to higher education (like in most European countries). The return on the investment a State gets by funding education is huge, and shouldn't be overlooked.

I know some people are just fucked up and/or criminal, and there's nothing you can do about it, but most people, even those with little to no current skills, can still get educated in profitable fields (like being an electrician).

I'm not a neuroscientist, but I'm quite certain the average can become a lawyer or a doctor. The restrictions on grades imposed by universities on these fields reflect less the ability of the people going in these programs, and more the inability for universities to provide an education in these programs for everyone (or, in some cases, they are there to prevent anyone from joining so the prices stay high for these services).

Most of these programs require, for you to excel, to memorize things, which the average person already does well. Memorizing articles from a law is not different from memorizing the players, their numbers and their role in a football team.

What is this from?

>but that is less a problem with the free trade, than with the education system that is poorly conceived and thought through ; because when you think about having a service-based economy you need the members of your society to be well-educated and formed, but you can't have that if your government doesn't in some form ease the access to higher education (like in most European countries). The return on the investment a State gets by funding education is huge, and shouldn't be overlooked.
That sounds like goddamn communism boy, you are not a god denying communist pinko, are you?

Jeanne Da'ck, Muchi Muchi Princesses

Thank you, may your country see better days

shit, user, sorry, I gave you a different name, the correct one its: Sugi G, My Care Lady

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