Being Hawkman is suffering

So I'm reading through Johns' JSA and Hawkman runs chronologically, and life generally seems to be shit for Carter. He just seems miserable all the time.

I mean, the love of his life for thousands of years not only wants nothing to do with him, but will completely flip her lid whenever he makes a mistake and always seems to assume the worst of him. You can tell that pains him severely, and everyone but Ray Palmer seems to only ignore, chastise or tease him. I mean I know she ends up fucking that douchebag Red Arrow eventually and then dies so I know her and Carter don't get together. Also the whole thing about remembering losing everyone he's ever cared about over the many lives he's had is pretty sad too.

Does he ever catch a break?

So nobody wants to talk about him either? Damn.

He starts banging Power Girl later, life gets better for him.

Huh, that nearly is worth thousands of years of sorrow.

Don't forget his real world treatment.

Despite his life sucking, is it an enjoyable read? I'm getting sucked into comics again in a big way but realized it was the main 'big' heroes of the franchises that turned me away. I'm really liking understated stories and characters, like Punisher, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, X-23, and on a DC front Constantine and Lucifer.

Yeah, JSA and Hawkman are both great

>so I know her and Carter don't get together
They do finally hook up and are together for a while until she dies, at least

Being Hawkman is suffering but he tends to take it in stride

Hawkman deserves happiness and good media adaptations ;_;

Reading this makes me think that Marvel's equivalent to Hawkman is Hank Pym. Accurate/inaccurate?

Well like I said I've been reading JSA too and PG just seems like a cunt honestly. She talks down to everyone and gets off on tooting her own horn.

Why does Sup Forums always read my mind or I see things from the future. Swear to God OP I've been thinking about this non-stop lately! I really, really want to write a new Hawkman.

My goal is to be a comic writer/artist but my more specific goal is giving some love and good stories to the unloved characters. I want to write a Hawkman comic, Atom, Martian Manhunter etc. (Hawkman #01, Atom #01, Martian Manhunter #01 etc) I have a theory I've been espousing for at least two years now and Sup Forums seems to be agreeing with it.

>The supervillain makes the superhero.

So my "writing" has been focusing on giving everyone who doesn't have one a genuine rogues gallery for starters. Coupled with their own mythos (I define mythos like lore, places, items associate with the character) side characters etc.

I know this is tooting my own horn but the villain I came up with for Hawkman is probably my favorite so far. With each of these villains, they are challenge only that specific hero can overcome, but I design my villains to where they can be easily adapted into other stories too and they aren't killed off as soon as they appear. So I came up with this bad guy first, thinking Hawkman didn't have an arch nemesis of any kind....

Then I decided, shit I need to retool Carter completely too.

Now... Now I'm in love with Hawkman/Carter Hall too after I see this amazing potential for him. I just got done watching JLU too and they made him literally Cuckooman after that and watching him be a nobody on LoT and trying to hunt down Hawkman stories I decided he needs some serious love and I've got the ideas and passion to make him awesome.

Sounds awesome Sup Forumsmrade; keep up the good work

Okay so here's some of what I'm cooking up. Trying to take all the convulsion of his multiple origins and fit them all together so pulling this off, it might as well be part of a reboot of some kind.

Hawkman is basically the God-Emperor of the DC multiverse.

Carter Hall has been reincarnated for thousands of years. He's been flying all over the world, generation after generation, age after age protecting and guiding humanity to the best of his abilities.

When Vandal Savage first started wrecking havoc in the ancient world, Hawkman was there.

When Ras Al Ghul first started his League of Assassins, Hawkman was there.

When King Arthur fought against Morgan Le Fey, Hawkman was there.

When the Hawk's die their soul becomes the Hawk Soul, it soars through the after life, then through the Red as it looks for a new host. Every scrap of this Earth has hosted a Hawk. Every race, creed and culture has seen the blessing and power of the Hawk Soul. Him and his lover were first real super heroes. Saving humanity from all sorts of threats they may never even know about, both alien, magical, inter-dimensional. The Eye of the Hawk has never once blinked in it's vigil to protect the Nest of Humanity.

But what about... Thanagar?

It's not like Kendra didn't love him, it's just that she was confused and little afraid of the whole cursed lovers thing.

Hank Pym's equal on DC's side is probably Will Magnus. Same scientist-hero angle, same instability and one dip into crazy territory that he had difficulty living down.

Both the Egyptian and Thanagarian origins are good in their own right, but I really don't see any way of combining the two together in a way that would improve the whole over just sticking to one of the other.

Yeah you need to just pick one

>Hawkman is basically the God-Emperor of the DC multiverse.

Okay that's fucking cool. Just a guy with bigass hawkwings and archaic weaponry who has been literally everywhere and has a story to tell about all of it. When you stress the Egyptian-reincarnation side of Hawkman people just tend to think of him as a barbarian throwback without remembering that Carter's an archaeologist as well and a really well-traveled and studied man. I want to see that mace-wielding brick shithouse combined with an erudite and academic mind.

Having the thanagar hawkman be another reincarnation seems seamless enough

as bad as that is, at least it's not written in stone that he's eternally fated to be cucked unlike his DCAU counterpart.

yeah but instead of a Robot with Daddy Issues that wants to fuck his mom (Which he does through Jocasta) he has 5 Robots with the qt wanting to fuck him so it's all good. He does get regularly invited to evil mad scientist parties as we've seen in 52

>But what about... Thanagar?

I'm not a fan of cosmic stuff in cape comics, mainly because it creates so much complicated stuff and takes away from Earth's position in the universe, devalues it. DC has way to many aliens as it is. And I hate aliens that looks like humans, just because I think it shows a lack of imagination and it's too convenient. Why would all these different alien worlds evolve creatures that look EXACTLY like us?

But now Thanagar is just part of Hawkman's mythos. So you can't completely dismiss it so I had an idea.

The Thanagarians were a dying species, they looked nothing like humanity. They were more like feathered dinosaurs, more reptilian and bird like. However generations of war destroyed their best genetic lineages. Their eggs were getting weaker. They decided to try something dramatic... Revitalize their species through splicing it with another species.

They scoured the stars, looking for life that they could use, some place unmolested and tucked away safely from the Wars. They found us. They abducted humans and genetically engineered them to start producing both human and pure blood Thanagarian DNA. Thanagarian DNA chromosomes are always stronger and override the human part.

Thus we get the angelic looking ones we are familiar with today. Also Thanagarians were mostly given grey wings, multicolored wings were reserved for the upper classes. They're very bird like it and the wings are status sympols, like birds use their wings as a mating displays. I'm focusing on wing colors for a reason, one being Hawkman's wings are boring artistically.

This DNA rewriting process is where Hawk Soul comes in. It's not a mystic thing, more like a psionic machine that operates like one, the purpose is to spread as much of this new species DNA as possible. To revitalize the DNA of Thanagar that was degenerating. Except the one that's Katar and Sharia are was never... never meant for the normal humans of Earth...

user good shit. How about Thanagarians visited ancient earth and hawkman was like when the Maya met Cortez? The south Americans thought it was their god Quetzalcoatl come again. Why make the hawk even earth native? You said multiverse so why not have hawkman having reincarnated on many planets before earth harbored life

Well according to DC earth started life.
So
Earth>hawk>Thanagarians>earth trip>Thanagarians conclude hawkman is their most coveted deity and then they DNA tinker back home?

Hawkworld, both the mini and the ongoing, are the only versions of Hawkman/woman I've enjoyed

>>The supervillain makes the superhero.
That's whoreshit. If a character cannot stand on their own, then the character is poorly written.

I'm getting there... Exactly. Here's where Katar/Sharia themselves come in.

Now how did this Hawk Soul get to earth? The idea was to take humans, go back to Thanagar, use them and well... get rid of the Earth. The Thanagarians main weapon of war is using weaponizing comets and meteors. (More about that later, that's where the Villain is coming in.)

The meteor of Nth metal that hit Egypt was meant to destroy the planet, but a loose Hawk Soul basically prevented that, showing mercy against it's unwilling host. It still landed, they still made weapons out of it but the Hawk Soul divided into it's male and female parts.

This explains the romanticism of the Hawks. The Hawk Soul improves DNA. A Hawkman/woman is 100 times stronger than a human, immune to pretty much every disease and doesn't really age. The only reason they die is through battle and they know they'll just come back stronger anyway.

Modern day Carter Hall needs reform. My Hawkman is probably going to undergo a complete redesign. More like pic related. It's hard to describe without drawing out though, but he's toned done muscle wise (relies on super strength) to give him more of a bird like appearance. He's skinnier like Cloud Strife or the dude from Escaflowne but his smaller size is to visually draw more attention to his HUGE wings that he also uses to fight with, making sonic booms, using the wing tips as two more fists. His wings are Nth Ethereal now, kind of like how they work in LoT. He can summon them when he needs to, they're actually there all the time but when he doesn't need them they drop into a Nth Pocket Universe.

He's an archaeologist, scholar and gentlemen who's kind of a little too romantic for his own good. Published author and researcher. He's the Indiana Jones of DC. Swooning girls take his lectures and fall in love while he tells them the story of two cursed Egyptian lovers.

One day, the Middle East is rocked by a meteor shower...

Plus, the whole "you're fated to love me even if you don't know it" thing is actually rather creepy when you think about it. Which Arrow and LoT illustrated rather handily. Thanks, Arrow-Hawkman, you WERE useful for something!

This sounds a lot like what DC did with Guy Gardner and the Vuldarians.

Personally, I think that with someone with the kind of horrific backstory Hawkman has, you have to stay simple. Seriously, it's been so bad that it's poisoned him through at least 3 different reboots, including one where his past shouldn't have mattered at ALL. But, someone had the bright idea of merging Carter and Katar in N52, because HISTORY! At one point, Hawkman's history was so radioactive, DC retired him from publication. (Until James Robinson started knocking it out of the park with Starman and the subsequent JSA, which made DC think maybe there was a way to respect Hawkman's history AND not fuck the character up.)

So, simple: the Hawk Soul had to come from somewhere, right? Thanagarians crash land on Earth during ancient times, bringing Nth metal technology. That technology, combined with the unknown radiation from Vandal Savage's meteor, fuses together in Prince Khufu and Priestess Chay-Ara. Bam, reincarnated souls, with a perfect basis to touch on magic AND science in their adventures. Plus, if you have to combine the Katar Hol identity, he's not a cover or a separate entity, he's just a past life to call on.

I agree.

Where the HELL is that man's pelvis?

Also, after the new incarnation of Lobo fell rather resoundingly flat, you might have had trouble selling a slimmed down version of Hawkman.

>One day, the Middle East is rocked by a meteor shower...

In all the chaos, the largest meteor seemed to strike the middle of the Sahara desert. At the bottom of the crater is what appears to be a small black pyramid. Amist the chaos of the Meteor Crises, Cater Hall, the worlds leading expert on Egypt is called to secretly investigate this mystery.

When he touches the pyramid, the earth starts to shake. It's rising. That was only the tip. Carter spreads his wings, flies everyone out as this pyramid rises further and further until it finally breaks the surface, floating in the atmosphere, the most massive structure you can imagine, seen for miles in Europe and Africa.

It keeps floating until leaves the Earths atmosphere, followed of course by tons of jet fighters, Hawkman flying around it...But right before it leaves, a beam comes out and snatches Hawkman sucking him into it. The pyramid moves into position, eclipsing the Sun.

Hawkman wonders around this pyramid, it looks familiar, Egyptian but alien as well. Until he finds a huge throne room and a sarcophagus. As Carter approaches it... it begins to slowly open...

Enter The Raptor of Rapture, Wielder of the Space Mace...

Hawkgirl was a bitch, she went with Roy but was dreaming and fantasizing about getting fucked by Carter

>Enter The Raptor of Rapture, Wielder of the Space Mace...

Who's the Raptor?

His design invokes Hawkmans classic design, he has two sets of wings, that form an X pattern when fully spread. Their blue with red and orange tips. So when he flies and moves around the wings make him look like a meteor or a comet. Remember the wing colors being important? The Rapture Raptor is Thanagarian Demi-God of sorts. His long blue hair peaks up at two points with red tips that look his wings, his hair basically takes the shape of Hawkman's helmet in a way. His eyes are reptilian and black skin underneath that look like the eyes of Orisis.

An opposite of Hawkman, like a dark mirror. Regal and ruthless. His torso is dressed with a robe and his feet look like traditional birds claws, blue with red talons.

He wields the Space Mace. Which is Thanagars ultimate weapon. It starts off as a giant rod, flying around an asteroid belt, collecting rocks into a giant rugged, spike orb floating on the tip. Once it reaches critical mass, it's flung at planet, completely ripping it apart. The remains of the destroyed planet form the basis of the new "mace" part it.

It's the Death Star of the DC universe. The Rapture Rapture weilds a smaller, two handed version of it that controls the larger one.

>Hello, Katar... It's been a long time since our last battle... Since you put me here...

>Personally, I think that with someone with the kind of horrific backstory Hawkman has, you have to stay simple.

That's what I'm trying to do here.

>This sounds a lot like what DC did with Guy Gardner and the Vuldarians.

That's what I was trying to avoid, haha.

I'll address your guys points more in a bit, I was trying to get to villain because this is where it all comes together.

The Rapture Raptor was who was in charge of destroyed the Earth the first time and the Hawk Soul possessed earthlings to prevent this as well. There as a battle, RR lost and hid in his throne ship to recover.

Now, I originally had him just coming Thanagar after freshly using the Space Mace to destroy Rann. But I liked the idea of him already being here too? So I'm sort of torn, could go either way.

Either way, Earth needs to be destroyed because it's an abomination that's been tainted with Thangarian DNA it's not "worthy" of. This could lead to a race that could challenge Thanagar too.

He is defeated but I want him to be recurring. Maybe he reincarnates too? After his defeat either way he's stuck on Earth. So he can join groups like the Legion of Doom since Hawkman doesn't have a "villain representation" so to speak.

> If a character cannot stand on their own, then the character is poorly written.

Allow me to explain.

If the character is standing on their own, doing nothing it's boring. The villain gives them a conflict to resolve, a problem to solve, an obstacle to over come. Something for them to DO.

That's a lot of heroes problems. By themselves, they have nothing to do. Maybe in other genres that works, but not in cape comics. Without a super villain it gets boring real quick. All the most successful heroes all have the largest rogues galleries, so there is always a story to tell with them. But these other characters, like Hawkman, like Atom he's got a rogues gallery but it's weak, like Wonder Woman's...

When you think about super heroes, especially for the big two, you have to think about them not only doing well in their own stories in their own books, that comes first. But as a BRAND as well. I design this villain so it makes the story better, but the villain can be easily turned into a toy, a character in a video game too, be easily picked up and adapted into other stories in other mediums too. You can't do that with no-face amorphous blobs of evil or random monsters. And that will keep that villain around for longer too.

They need to be a CHARACTER as much as the super hero does. The better you make the villains, the better the hero is. There are some great super hero stories that don't involve villains, but for long term success of the character, they need a villain.

Does that make any sense?

>You said multiverse so why not have hawkman having reincarnated on many planets before earth harbored life

Because I want Earth and protecting Earth and Humans to be a priority for the Hawks. If he's on all these other worlds, it's not as important to him. In my version, Thanagar is part of the story but only to further the narrative. Hawkman doesn't interact with it beyond fighting RR. It's sort of an after thought.

Yeah I thought about that but I'm not for sure how to incorporate it.

I said it earlier but I just watched that episode (I somehow missed all of season 2 as a kid growing up and only saw the last two episodes of it) so I rewatched it, for another project too because I want revive JLU. Then I saw Hawkman being literally cucked and felt really bad for him, like I said I was already designing this villain and his DCAU appearance is what inspired the God-Emperor-ish idea because I wanted to make him something better. I feel bad for him.

Another idea I had in this book is having different versions of Hawkman throughout time and various periods. Like a Samurai Hawkman, a Knight Hawkman, a Hawkman who was native american during 1800s etc.

Each of these lives is lived differently too. One big theme is asking if Carter is his own individual or not?

Another story down the line is how him and Sharias descendants spread these Hawk genes. So in modern day there is a shadowy group of people trying to find these people, who are essentially meta-humans if they realize or not and doing things with them.

bump

hawkbump

Thank you.

Marvelfag here. Sounds good . Makes me want a moon knight crossover

Hi I'm user from last night who said include the white entity. The way I would do it is combine Blackest Night lore with Our Worlds at War. Earth is the Nexus of the multiverse and the alt earth are the eggs in the orrery of worlds. Space + earth + multiverse cosmology should cover all bases and it offers an egg motif. Like earths in the multiverse are eggs to hatch hawkmen into each earth. Bam. Right? You can fit the red into that I'm sure.

They get together in Brightest Day ... for about 10 seconds.
Then hawkgirl was turned into wind.

>talk about hawkman
>turns into a faggy oc fanfic
Fuck you guys

Well no one fucking spoke up and told me to stop having original ideas. I guess you Hakwman to sucks Cuckooman for the rest of his existence?

If you didn't want me to talk about my ideas, you could of also spoke up. I sat here last night talking to myself.

Some of us do more than shitpost and call people faggots, I know it's hard for Sup Forums to conceptualize doing anything other than insulting everything.

>Space + earth + multiverse cosmology should cover all bases and it offers an egg motif.

Yeah and I love multiversity so I've been trying to incorporate it in anything I come up with for DC.

And now they're on separate earths.