Civil War II

Why not just prosecute him for stealing the tank?

King of the Hill and Kamala are in the same universe?

Because then he'd be out earlier and Carol and her social authoritarian followers can't have that.
I feel like GWW did what she could to make this shitty forced conflict make any kind of sense.

Nah. With her it was a Canadian nationalist ninja master.

Is that Kamala's sister in law without the oppressive clothing?

He shouldn't even be able to steal the tank in the first place.

Don't worry it's Halal
Women don't have to cover up their shame when they are in their own homes.

It's hilarious she's just some girl her brother found.

Her family isn't even Muslim. I think this is sort of autobiographical of G. Wilson herself.

What a novel concept

She isn't oppressed by anyone, actually. Quite the opposite, in fact. Her family tolerated her decision (they didn't welcome it, but they accepted it) and is probably happy enough she married into an okay family and didn't start fucking around.
Except for her fedora-tier brother, of course.

It looks like she is going for a traditionally modest look in public but wears whatever while at home.

Similar strictures have actually been applied in Europe and the US into the late 19th century. We now stand at the end of a 70-year process of liberalising dress codes and promoting women's rights.
Although traditional dresses in Europe were mostly an expression of wealth and status, and as such often subject to "keeping up with the Joneses" while cloaked-up women in the Muslim world would wear their goods under the concealing dress. and not be seen much in public at all.
Which is now turning into a big problem when Western societies demand women to be in public all the time while the Saudi-led promotion of religious fundamentalism tries to force pragmatic local traditions to the sidelines and pushing for the most extreme ways of concealment.
Which is one reason why we need to get independent of Arabian oil and throw the suckers out.

>If they prosecute him for something he might have done
What makes her think they would? What does that shit even have to do with future sight, if Kamala just happened upon with no prior warning and they do this it would still be the same.

I think Willow fucked up considering Ulysses and Carol have nothing to do with how he is prosecuted because no one knows he exist outside a bunch of heroes and it is unlikely they could use his testimony anyway.They could try to say he would have done worse shit but they have zero proof. However we know they aren't even trying to do that because they haven't told the public about ulysses.

No, user.
They are trying people for crimes that never happened as though they committed them.
That is the point of contention. That is why Kamala is going out with the Hipstapo. They are coordinating the whole legal thing and connecting Kamala to Alpha Flight.
They are trying to rewrite law so as to allow for pre-crime judgements.
Why are they being such retards? Because Bendis dictated that it must be so and they had no time to talk him out of it.

>They are coordinating the whole legal thing and connecting Kamala to Alpha Flight.
>They are trying to rewrite law so as to allow for pre-crime judgements.
When did they say on what page?

I guess if they're going to make use of this precog guy, they're going to have to be able to prosecute people for crimes they haven't committed yet. If they want to set a precedent for that, it would be easiest to do so by piling it on top of actual committed crimes.

I think that is an inconsistency as a result of the short notice (probably they had to cut some stuff Alphona had drawn already, too) and Bendis demanding completely retarded shit to happen.
Wilson is obviously scrambling to build a case against Carol and not doing too hot. They have no case to launch the storyline if the legal proceedings are legit and they would have to be completely sanctioned by the state with their pre-crime in order to have questionable trials.
Which they aren't. So Wilson has to choose between making no sense or having a glaring plot hole which she seems to have tried to brush over here.

iirc this even wast stated to be written in two months, it was squeezed in at the last moment. They have Willow writing a tie in when the conflict hasn't even started in the main book. Honestly so far the conflict is not about thought crime but rather tony being petty and Carol being incompetent.

>Tyesha, if he was PLANNING to do something terrible with it, isn't it better to get him off the streets BEFORE he hurts somebody?

#Trump2016.

They've done no such thing yet. The solicitations already said Clint's going to go on trial for his pre-emptive murder of Banner.

>I feel like GWW did what she could to make this shitty forced conflict make any kind of sense.
Pretty much
Writers are just trying to do the best then can with the shitty hand they have been given

It's not well-stated in this particular comic, but it's the core of the Civil War II event.

>Carol being incompetent.
You mean Monica.

This is my main problem with Civil War II. We were told we'd be getting Minority Report, and Tony Stark is acting like that's what's happening, but that's not what we got.

There's plenty of things to charge him for
>Being the leader of a Canadian Ninja smuggling syndicate (that's a crime, right?)
>The crimes we saw him commit in a previous issue
>Stealing a tank
>Driving a tank all around Jersey City
>Reckless endangerement

Kamala's sister-in-law is an idiot
>HE DINDU NUFFIN

>There's plenty of things to charge him for
Isn't the issue that he was being charged for the explosive in the tank that he had no knowledge of?

That was speculation on her part.

That's impossible.
The news report didn't mention it, the sister-in-law had no way of knowing it, in fact she made no mention of the bomb, only of what he could have done with the tank (which doesn't matter, it's a crime in the real world). And even if she did know of it, Ulysses' testimony would have nothing to do with it because his existence is a secret.

What she complained about was trying people for projected crimes.
That is the topic of this issue.
But the fucking event book hasn't established that yet to the point where tie-ins could work with it.
Wilson is working with nothing but the promise of a conflict.

>Why not just prosecute him for stealing the tank?
You could, the issue is if you add other charges for things that didn't happen on top of that.

Well they should have phrased it better, because she doesn't mention the bomb at all.
More importantly, the bomb wouldn't be a crime since there was no intent, he didn't know about the bomb. Worst they could do is charge him with wreckless endangerement.
The scenario as presented just doesn't work, and it's even worse because she compares it to fucking racial profiling, which has nothing to do with a Canadian Ninja stealing a tank.

Gag and also wretch. I'm glad I'm not paying for this tripe.

>Well they should have phrased it better, because she doesn't mention the bomb at all.
They constantly mention him being caught "before he hurt anyone".

>Worst they could do is charge him with wreckless endangerement.
Yes in the real world you could do that, but in magic future seeing world, there is the possibility of charging him with causing the actual deaths of people even if those people didn't die. For example, a charge of "Murder" instead of "Attempted murder", just because you completed the murder act in the future vision.

>and it's even worse because she compares it to fucking racial profiling, which has nothing to do with a Canadian Ninja stealing a tank.
They are both about apprehending people because of a POSSIBLE crime.

>They constantly mention him being caught "before he hurt anyone".
Doesn't matter, still a crime, driving a tank like that is dangerous.

>For example, a charge of "Murder" instead of "Attempted murder", just because you completed the murder act in the future vision.
Yeah, no. They never make any mention of that here or anywhere else. I would like to re-emphasize that Ulysses' existence is secret, so he can't testify.
And like I said, he had no intention of killing anyone, he knew nothing about the bomb, and without intent you can't be charged with murder.

>They are both about apprehending people because of a POSSIBLE crime.
Which doesn't work here because Hijinx did in fact commit a crime. And the sister-in-law knows nothing about Ulysses so why is he she even bringing it up?

>Doesn't matter, still a crime, driving a tank like that is dangerous.
I didn't say it was, just that it's clear they're aware of the future thing.

>And the sister-in-law knows nothing about Ulysses so why is he she even bringing it up?
I think it's pretty clear the characters are meant to be aware some sort of future vision thing is going on. That's literally the only way this conversation could work.

Which is precisely why I said earlier that Wilson had to choose between having to story to tell or fucking with the timeline because Bendis cannot into pacing.

She should have had Kamala arrest someone before they actually did anything and had no evidence against, she came up with a scenario that in the real world would be a clear-cut case.

They were about to show her assault a robber while the robber was pondering whether to rob a store or not, but she was interrupted by one of her friends flying through Ulysses crime-radar.

I still don't know why they didn't switch those two. Maybe Wilson just figured "Kamala races to stop a ninja driving an out-of-control tank before it explodes" made for better first half of her comic than "Kamala grabs a scruffy flatscan walking into a supermarket".

But prosecuting someone for planning to commit a crime is literally just prosecuting them for conspiracy

It doesn't even matter in this scenario. He ALREADY stole the tank, a weapon, and was driving it around town with clear criminal intent.
But as you said, yeah, conspiracy is a crime, though usually you need evidence (an Inhuman said so probably won't be accepted), thoughtcrimes don't count, the perp needs to have taken actions to prepare for the crime.

>costumed villain driving stolen tank down busy street running over cars

Why are they so focused on what he might do rather than what he was currently doing?

We don't dispute that the story is shit for an event and looking at it with any degree of judgement gives you a golden bridge to act on the future intel by waiting for the culprit to incriminate themselves.
The only thing we can discuss is how writers deal with the shit hand they are dealt.

In the issue he's charged and being tried for stealing a tank, reckless endangerment, and conspiracy to commit murder. Kamala's sister in law (and the anti Ulysses side) are focusing on the what ifs and not what's actually happening. Carol has yet to Minority Report anyone

Especially since Carol has nothing to do with the trial process, that's all on the American Justice System that is unaware of Ulysses' visions.

He was driving an armed tank down a busy street. In the issue he's shown crushing card with the tank, thats enough for attempted murder inhuman prophecy or not

Attempted murder would require the deaths of people to be his intent. It's wreckless endangerement, he's putting lives at risk but doesn't care.

Their end game was to kill, that's obvious without visions. Also you could argue they did try to kill MM and friends when they tried to stop them

Rhodey was the incompetent one. He let his missile go off by accident and hit Jen and was so shocked that he was easily killed by Thanos. That's all on him.

Or even more accurately, all on Bendis.

One of the few good thing about current Marvel is that, one way or another, you can always blame Bendis

I wonder if any of these writers realize that the entire idea of predicting crime was flawed.

Flawed how? It's perfect! Just like rounding up and keeping tabs on individuals who belong to a specific group. Nothing morally dubious about that.

Wait, if they got picked up on the street for "probable cause" they'd still need to have drugs on their person in order to get arrested, if they had nothing on them they'd have to be let go. Which means they did actually commit a crime. Her argument doesn't make sense.
Is she saying that the police should just ignore drug vendors?

Who does Miles look up to most? Peter?

Instead of Prosecutor vs Defense atty, will there now be dueling prophets in court?

There's nothing Morally dubious yet because everyone they stopped was in the process of a crime or a fucking criminal, usually both.
He seems disillusioned with him.

Why does he seem disillusioned with him? I haven't read in a while.

>it's a Sup Forums discusses ethics episode

The only morally dubious thing we know if is Hawkeye killing Banner next issue, but one idiot acting on his own isn't enough to damn the whole system.

Fuck yeah.
>Next time on Marvel THEN!
>Who is the true Messiah?

>Miles is disillusioned with peter
Well that's bullshit

If you actually think there's nothing wrong with being stopped and frisked on the street for no more reason than because you're black in a sketchy neighbourhood, then I don't know what to tell you.

Something about him being a manchild? Which is something that is entirely Marvel's fault seeing how they're the ones who regressed Peter.

>no more reason than because you're black in a sketchy neighbourhood
Actually, it's the fact that the dude stands by himself on a street corner for a long time. The fact that he's black is irrelevant (in fact she never mentions race), any cop would be suspicious of that.

>the fact he's black is irrelevant
>this something that white America doesn't believe but will say anyway

Then Hank Hill needs to be fuckin arrested.

How long is too long? A "Longtime" is entirely subjective.

Pretty sure that if they were arrested for selling drugs they probably weren't planning on going to college anyway.

You know college kids experiment with drugs right?

This.
Walking up to someone and seeing if they might be high or something is one thing. Just arresting people for standing in the streets under the pretense of preventing crime is kinda preposterous.
You can easily be waiting ten minutes for a friend who's picking you up or something.

I know people who financed college with drug trafficking.

Who said they were selling drugs?

Yeah, but they usually don't sell them.

If they didn't have any drugs on them, they'd be frisked and the cops would let them go.

They poke fun of it in Deadpool

>Just arresting people for standing in the streets under the pretense of preventing crime is kinda preposterous.
>You can easily be waiting ten minutes for a friend who's picking you up or something.
Like I said, they can frisk you for standing too long, but if you don't have any drugs on your person, they can't arrest you since they have no evidence, they'd just let you go and move on.

Actually college kids do sell drugs for extra cash.

>they usually don't sell them
Pfffft

Yes, they do. At my college drug dealers were rampant. You ever been to college kid?

Possession of narcotics doesn't mean intent to sell.

So college kids who have drugs will never ever sell while that black kid on the cornee who might have drugs is without a doubt a drug dealer?

>Implying that "loitering while black" isn't a crime

It's not, it's probable cause.
The crime they're committing is the crime.

But why am I being searched? Because i was on a corner for "too long" which is entirely subjective measurement of time. they find like half an ounce of weed on you and now you're being arrested after the cop made an illegal search of your person.

>Loitering
>"remaining in any one place under circumstances that would warrant a reasonable person to believe that the purpose or effect of that behavior is to enable a criminal street gang to establish control over identifiable areas, to intimidate others from entering those areas, or to conceal illegal activities."

What he said. If the kids have no drugs on them, they'll be let go. If they did have drugs on them, they were either trying to sell them or they're incredibly stupi.

Honestly since all they've used Ulysses for so far is to go confront things while they were already happening, I can't disagree with Carol's side yet

Which effectively means you can accuse anyone at any time of it.

Yeah, Tony Stark blaming Ulysses because Thanos happened to kill Rhodey for reasons completely unrelated to his visions is stupid. Rhodey would have died even if the mission had been done because they received a warning from the Shi'Ar or something. It has nothing to do with the Minority Report analogy.

>either trying to sell them
You caught me, I was definitely carrying the roach because I'm a drug dealer and I was gonna sell it.
>or incredibly stupid
You're right, it's real stupid for me to assume I have rights.

It was stupid of you to go out on the street with drugs on you and then stand on a street corner, yeah.

You are aware that you don't actually have to be standing in a corner for any amount of time?

4th amendment a shit

What happens with the writing situation with these mega-events? Do the writers get cliff-notes and checklists from the 'showrunner' of the main book (Bendis in this case) that they have to follow in their tie-ins?

>drugs on my person
Guess what nigga? That's entirely irrelevant when it comes to illegal searches.

Depends on how the planning goes.
Normally they have good-to-okay coordination. This time they had no time for a proper process and are just shitting out what they can after being surprised with the announcement.

I really don't get why they can't just take preemptive measures to make sure the events of the vision don't happen, like temporarily detaining and questioning someone, something you can already legally do with some evidence but not enough to prosecute someone. That's the problem with these ideological battles: Nobody's willing to compromise.

in theory the creative summits they have are to make sure everything's lined up and clear and everyone knows what they're doing

Keyword is "in theory"