Now that both of these shows are over. Who was the better villain?

Now that both of these shows are over. Who was the better villain?

Bill started a lot stronger but Dominator ended stronger. She started kind of obnoxious but got more fleshed out, while Bill was more charismatic but pretty one-note.

Dominator's character grew up bit annoying when they tried to show she was actually good deep down. That evil was now replaced with another problematic villains who's confused in her motives.

Bill stayed constant on what he wanted and his overall goal. He barely broke out of the character we were introduced to.

Bill was the better villain but that probably is because he was only used sparingly and not every episode. This whole argument would be different though if GF's got a 3 season

I'd say both shows would have become very different if they got the third seasons that they wanted.

>now that both shows are over

Make way for a better villain.

Jasper.

No one wants you here, /sug/.

Toffee will be judged once he makes his glorious return in season 2

Hater

The Lich.

>/sveg/ fags have to remind us that they got a 3 season
We get it. You got a 3rd season. Now shut the fuck up.

Lord Hater

Hater duh

>Dominator's character grew up bit annoying when they tried to show she was actually good deep down.
That's not what happened though. We saw her inner weakness (not goodness), which was way more refreshing than her constant "I'm better than everyone at everything lol" schtick. If anything was annoying, early Dom was.

This. Dominator started out as a stereotypical Disney villain, only to show that there is more to her beyond that. She's essentially an evil Wander. Bill on the other hand has nothing, becoming completely incompetent once he actually achieved his goal.

Dominator at least seemed like some kind of threat.
Bill was always obnoxious and never threatening.

What is with Sup Forums rating villains by threat level above all else?

By that logic Doomsday is a good villain.

>84158737
Alright, let me explain so you could understand.
Anton Chigurh and John Doe from Se7en are just people and they are far more threatening than most villains because of presence alone.

Now take someone like Freddy Krueger from Freddy is Dead. Yes, he's pretty much invincible and can get you when you're completely helpless, but that doesn't make him any more threatening. He's essentially a joke character.

That's what I mean by "threatening". Bill could be omnipotent god or at least like Doomsday for all I care, and he would still never be threatening.

I overall like Bill's character more. It's hilarious how the illuminati that has appeared all throughout history is actually a sentient psychotic triangle from the 2nd dimension. Maybe I'm biased though because I hate those annoying fangirl characters.

If I were to change Bill for the better though, I would like to learn a little bit more about how Bill escaped and destroyed the ENTIRE second dimension, and how he got his god like powers.

I really didn't like Bill. He always felt way too mischievous to be the big bad final boss. I was hoping his "friends" would be much more threatening demons who would drag him back to the other realm once they were defeated.

Dominator had an interesting juxtaposition between threatening and goofy teenager.

Both shows would have definitely benefited with a third season. I'm not too clear on the reasoning for changing GF's plan from 3 seasons to 2, but WoY definitely would have been nice with a 3rd season, if only to see some expanded backstories like they had planned.

HATE'S GREAT

Maul

The Beast

Again, that's not the sole property defining if a villain is good or not. Hades' presence in Hercules isn't very threatening at all, but he's still a fantastic villain.

Villains aren't just plot devices.

I haven't seen WOY but I already know the answer is Dominator, I just know it.

Alex a hack.

Except Hades was never supposed to be threatening. He is supposed to be an ineffectual joke character.
Bill is supposed to be a threat, but it never feels like it.

And yes, a villain being threatening does make them better. And no, Doomsday is not and never was threatening.

>plot devices
Everything in fiction is a plot device, fuck off.

If he had actually done something with those prisoners and not turned into a baby instead I would agree

>AT having good villains
>implying AT's villains even matter outside of the episodes centered around fighting them

1 word, 6 letters, it ain't just a river in Egypt

>Alex Hirsch wants to end Gravity Falls at two seasons
>Disney begs and pleads for him to stay

>McCracken wants a third season of Wander
>Disney goes "ehhhhhh we'll think about it" and cans the show

I liked them both a whole lot actually, for their sheer fun factor.

Both probably suffered from their shows ending prematurely though, by choice in GF's case a season early, in WOY's case because it was cancelled obviously.

Bill probably suffered more. It seemed liked there was a plan at one point to have three seasons and his arc seemed messed up by only having two instead. There were some more complicated potential mysteries and more interesting ideas (i.e. Flatland) behind Bill than Lord Dom but they didn't get utilized really.

Meanwhile while Lord Dominator's show was cancelled instead of choosing to end it (early I think in GF's case), her character's arc was designed for only one season, so while I would have really liked to see what they would have done with her if the show hadn't been cancelled, her arc was completed I think as planned and completed well. I was more satisfied with the way her character wrapped up than Bill's.

Sadly, or maybe not sadly I don't know, both may be ultimately remembered for the massive amount of fetish pornography they spawned both here and overseas, which will long outlive their respective shows.

I like him, but goddamn is his show shit.
Watching it for him was like digging through shit just to find one diamond.

And this is why Alex deserves all the shit he gets.
Manlets, not even once.

No, it is not difficult to make a sadistic Lovecraftian entity that knows all of your deepest thoughts and can possess you and force you to hurt yourself and others threatening (and is willing to do so, even with children), they just didn't really "go there" in the end, maybe because it was a Disney cartoon.

I mean Dominator destroyed multiple galaxies and realistically her body count would be in the trillions, but they needed to show everyone and everything was okay, they are shows for kids. I think the thing is Wander Over Yonder was more consistently this Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd silly thing while Gravity Falls seemed to have other ambitions sometimes so it was less consistent.

But back to Bill, even having a wacky sort of personality for a supernatural terror is a horror staple. An it's all fun and games for them but not for their victims kind of thing.

But things like not being in control of yourself or knowing what's even real is a less kid show fear which is why tumblr edgelords picked it up and ran with it most likely, making things that were creepier and scarier then the show, although often cringey/tryhard. I was still a little let down by the finale because the things that made him potentially a creepy and effective enemy were not used at all. Also he was better as a more personal threat who caused emotional strife but things were kind of glossed over.

Like making a hurt, sad little girl into the harbringer of the apocalypse in her lowest moment because of her simple desire to spend more time with her twin? That's fucking monstrous and despicable, but it's also totally glossed over by the show.

>Watching it for him was like digging through shit just to find one diamond.
Yeah, but when he finally shows up it feels so good.

Bill was a better villain, but Dominator was a better character.

Dominator had begun her transformation into a tsundere in the last few episodes, and presumably would have shed her status as a true villain through S3. Bill was a piece of shit until the very end.

I know it's a matter of "What if?", but I can't help but feel that regardless of Bill's flaws, Dominator would eventually have been disqualified.

In any case, this:

Fuck the Lich, he was only ever interesting before he was actually introduced into the series.

>Gravity Falls
>no third season
>didn't even get a movie so we could have a proper end to the series
>ending was complete dogshit
>Dipper had to give up his dreams for Mabel for the millionth time
Fuck Alex Hirsch, I hope he's blacklisted from fucking everything.

Fun fact, he's based on a typical FBI agent as they cleverly knew that's what their main demographic fears the most

I thought he was dubs man?

>An it's all fun and games for them but not for their victims kind of thing.
I feel like they didn't "go there" with it too. Scenes like deer teeth and screaming head are too comedic for a "villain enjoying themselves and a character being horrified" kind of scene. Gideon's/Dipper's fear feels more like it's flowing along with the joke instead of being contrasting, if you get what I mean.

Pedoposter pls.

I want Toffee's voice actor to voice the lines in American Psycho audio-book.

He was just Alex making an edgy knockoff of MLP's knockoff of Q, all derived from his impotent lust for Lauren Faust.

Too early to tell with Toffee villain wise but I'm ready to be dissapointed.

I like Jasper but she's barely been in the show and had little development, it looks like that's going to change, though.

He totally is.

Toffe's voice actor is dexter, the serial killer not the one who had a secret laboratory.

>think the thing is Wander Over Yonder was more consistently this Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd silly thing while Gravity Falls seemed to have other ambitions sometimes so it was less consistent.

The issue is WoY was initally supposed to be a more serialized show likw Gravity Falls with 22 minute episodes, but Disney made them do the 11 minute Bugs/Elmer thing.

Jesus, the more I read about what could have been with Wander, the angrier I get. Why did they shit on this show so damn badly?

I think Bill's concept had a lot of potential but Gravity Falls was mostly a very goofy show along the lines of The Simpsons or Family Guy even aside from being for kids, what could they really do there? Obviously a mind demon could be a very scary thing but they weren't going to have Bill force Dipper to murder and eat Mabel or something on the show. Well, compare to the "adult" version of Bill, Bob from Twin Peaks, who they nodded to a few times w/ Bill. Bob feeds on human suffering and murders and rapes people but baby Bob, Bill, isn't going to do that on a Y7 cartoon show.

...

Oh shit, it's true. He has surprising range, I instantly recognized his voice in Gods and Monsters, but not in Star.

It sucks but it's easier to make $$$$ with retarded episodic shit and especially since Wander Over Yonder had such great themes of empathy and its limits and fuck I'm mad now too, fuck Disney for canceling WOY.

... sticks?

Well, I don't ask for a horror movie shit in a kid cartoon, but look at W.I.T.C.H for example.
It was a Disney show too and was mostly light-hearted, but it could get darker when it needed to without it feeling jarring. GF could use that kind of transition.
Yes, I know that comic is better

We don't know what Bill's backstory and motivation even was so who knows if he's sympathetic or not.

>It sucks but it's easier to make $$$$ with retarded episodic shit
That's bitterly ironic seeing just today Craig posted on his tumblr about his proposal for Wander merch being rejected

I thought after Phineas and Ferb gave Disney boatloads of cash, they'd be nicer to their shows.

Disney notoriously has always shit on their tv division, favoring their movies to the point of neglecting and mistreating their shows.

Bill was the better villain in the fact that he actually had a logical end game that he was working for and directly benefited him.
He was powerful, but also limited by a clear set of rules in most of his encounters.

Dominator was essentially a bigger child than Hater. The first thing she does after destroying the galaxy is bemoan it being over.
Her power level was obnoxious to the point that an attempt to stop her just gives her ice abilities that she never actually uses.

Even in the dog shit finale, Bill had to be tricked/outwitted. Hater just bent Dominator over his knee when the plot demanded it, twice. Then she whines a lot and fucks off in a bubble, her fate completely unresolved.

If Hater was Skeletor, Dominator is pic related.

>I mean Dominator destroyed multiple galaxies and realistically her body count would be in the trillions, but they needed to show everyone and everything was okay, they are shows for kids.
When making this point, everybody seems to lose sight of the fact that nothing about WoY can reasonably be connected to the real(istic) world.

People flit across "interstellar" (quotes because, again, it's kind of silly to use a realistic term) distances in over-sized soap bubbles. Maybe you'll find a door into The Void along the way in your travels. Armies of walking eyeballs and hands do constant battle. There's Jupiter-sized dogs.

All this is to say that it's not unrealistic at all that Dominator didn't actually kill a single being. People evacuate planets all the time in the Wanderverse. It probably helps that most of the time, said planets may or may not be the size of a city block. And that of course further throws into doubt how many people Dominator could ever have hoped to kill (unless she started running into a whole bunch of worlds filled with those perfectly realistic lilliputian aliens from Neckbeard's store... yeah).

So ultimately, all that we're really left with is a girl who likes dark clothes and makeup, and who boasts about how much she likes witnessing people suffer... More commonly known as an edgy teenager. Or to use Sylvia's words: "the biggest B in the galaxy."

Pic related as a counterpoint because it's the one episode I can recall her actually putting somebody in mortal danger.

This. Jesus Christ. This.

Yeah, I knew this. I was hoping after P&F was such a huge success they'd knock that shit off.

But then once P&F dipped ever so slightly in popularity, they wiped it off the face of the earth, so what do I know?

yeah, I still don't get why people think Dipper becoming Ford's apprentice was ever going to be a reasonable option instead of returning back home and moving on with a normal life.

I wanted to see Dipper make the decision to go back home with Mabel out of his OWN volition, his own desire to return to a normal life rather than pursue even further into this crazy shit with Ford.

Dominator felt like a third wheel even in a plot centered entirely around her, while Bill felt like an integral character with meaningful interactions with the rest of the cast, while also in a plot built around him.

I feel like Disney tends to treat their shows better if they feature prominent child characters. Wander's a fine character, but it's probably harder for kids to identify with him or Sylvia than say, Star Butterfly or Mabel Pines.

Counterpoint: the buttloads of Perry the Platypus merchandise.

1.Dominator
2.Bill
3.Meme surprise guy

I am glad that Dominator was a jerk until the end.

Well, she did murder Beep Boop, who was a pretty sympathetic character, and did attempt to kill the MCs.

Bill never felt like a real threat, until maybe the end
but he always felt like a cronie of a main villain, not a main villain himself
Dominator was a real threat that pretty much ended with Wander being wrong for the whole series
like Wander always believed there's good in everyone and everyone can be a friend, he was right that she was damaged and needed a friend, but in the end she couldn't be helped and action was the only way to beat her

Dominator because I need to crush her delicious lime-flavored cunt

Bill's best villain moment was at the end of DaMvtF. That was an amazing, amazing villain moment for any medium. And very well executed especially the silent end credits.

Lord Dominator was at her most evil in The Flower and of course there's that death from The Bot, but people will remember her for I'm The Bad Guy probably.

Not sure who I like more.

...

This gives me a gigantic boner, yet the mickey hands turn me down at the same time.

Bill presumably destroyed an entire dimension and killed almost the whole Time Corps so he was a threat, but the barrier thing was stupid. It dropped,the stakes way down and muh status quo. Imagine if the world had needed to deal with the Apocalypse instead and Dipper and Mabel worrying that their parents and billions of others could be dead.

Dominator
Cipher's threat revolved around his mysterious nature
All of that went to fucking shit in the finale, where he was just a fucking party animal who wanted to just have an interdimensional frat. It was awful.
Meanwhile Dominator's threat revolved around her being a goddamn galactic threat, and she was. The heroes tried multiple times to stop her, and actually failed a few times.
Meanwhile Cipher was beaten every time he showed up

off screen threats don't count as a real threat because we never really see it
sure he killed Time Baby, but all we left knowing about them is they go back to regroup
for all we know Dominator probably destroyed countless galaxies

>robot
>murder
:^)

Besides, she even let a watchdog get away with no consequences when she found him hiding on her ship.

L E W D
E
W
D

>all of the people in this thread implying that Dominator has any semblance of being a decently written character, let alone anywhere as good as Bill, let alone Hater
I cannot put into words how disgusted I am.

One big problem with both as villains was there being no consequences at all to either of their actions, Stan's memories come right back and all the planets Dom destroyed are just instantly okay again, and the really awful things each character does like killing Beep Boop and fucking Mabel are never addressed.

Because moving on with a normal life is a terrible ending.

>bill, the one note villain who literally does nothing and has literally no depth
>better than a shallow character with little depth, but still AT LEAST SOME
Im disgusted by your idiocy

We see him literally disintegrate Time Baby and the other Time Cops onscreen...

who the fuck is this? I keep seeing him around, but i have no idea who this is.

>that face
Goddamn.

>implying dominator has ANY depth beyond being an edgy "lol im so quirky xD" waifu-bait character
Bill doesn't have any depth, sure, but at least he's interesting and amusing. Literally the only people who would defend Dominator are people who are attracted to her.

Anyone who says anything good about Dominator outside of her looks is a liar and a degenerate.

it was really the 1st thing he did on screen that was actually threatening, something the main characters failed to counter (mostly because they had no idea it happened)
Time Baby and Time cops getting disintegrated are more reason to tell the viewer why they wouldn't have done anything in the finale
you don't even see the time traveler again

Both characters are fine and entertaining but like 90% of each character's fanbase just wants to fuck them and doesn't care if the writers fuck them up

>Dominator
>"entertaining"
She's only "entertaining" because they gave her huge hips and have her constantly flaunt her looks. She's blatant waifu-bait. At least they actually tried to make Bill entertaining. Dominator is pretty much just Pyronica as far as "depth" or "entertainment" goes. Even then, at least Pyronica has an interesting design.

the time people pretty much got jobbed is what i'm saying

ITT: people addressing joke characters from kiddie cartoons as though they were antagonists from serious adult shows.

Toffee from Star Vs. the Forces of Evil

Can someone explain to me why Hater is any better than Dominator? I mean seems like pretty much the same thing, the only difference seems to be that Hater is scripted to Loose rather than Win, and is therefore incompetent.

I don't know, slamming Booster Gold's head in a car door was pretty damn threatening to me as a kid.

Beep Boop was sentient and feeling goddammit. Tha evil bitch murdered him in cold blood.

Sorry you have shit taste and can't see past a character's looks.

Please, for the love of all that is good, tell me this is bait. No sensible living being could be this stupid. I refuse to accept it.

Well then, please, educate me; why is Dominator a good character? She's an edgy "SO QUIRKY XD" obnoxious pile of shit. It makes me cringe to watch scenes with her. She's genuinely like an OC made by a 14 year old girl. She's not funny, she's just an edgy character that they made quirky so that people would like her.
>inb4 "you can't use buzzwords!"
She's literally edgy. She wants to destroy an entire galaxy and kill countless innocent people just for fun. I don't know what else you would call that.

Bill was, until he turned into a Chad.

I had a lot of fun watching Lord Dominator personally though I do think Bill was more unique and interesting as a character, just the concept and humor were better. I can understand getting annoyed though because in some places they're the only things from those shows people want to talk about and that is always really annoying. Their fans can be obnoxious. After Dominator showed up tons and tons of waifufags appeared overnight only caring about WOY for her and on youtube or some other sites it's just girls screaming about how sexy Bill is and how they want to spread their legs for him. But if I hated shit for the fans I would hate everything.

No i just haven't seen all of the show, i'm really not trying to bait, it's just from what i've seen on Tv it seems to me they really aren't that different Lul for teh Ebils characters.

Lord Hater is evil because he wants to impress people and be cool. He's very insecure about himself. Unlike Lord Dominator, who wants to kill everyone for fun because she's so gosh darn quirky and epic, Lord Hater A. only wants to take over the galaxy, and B. has reasons behind it. Also, Lord Hater isn't absurdly overpowered and boring like Dominator; he's a loser, but that's what makes it entertaining; to see the times when he does win. With Dominator, the outcome was always obvious; she always won every encounter (except the last episode, obviously) because she's overpowered as fuck. Hater is also extremely strong, but he actually has to make an effort to be strong.