Am I the only one that loved the Martha moment...

Am I the only one that loved the Martha moment? Even people that liked the theatrical/ultimate cut usually say it's fucking retarded.

It was fine. Only autists didn't get it.

Snyder pls

Autistic meme post. Congrats for proving his point.

This.

I can't decide if it was a dumb idea executed well or a good idea executed poorly, honestly.

I think its more of the latter

Supes didnt necessarily HAVE to say Martha

C'mon. She's the only family he has left. When you die, who do you think of if not your family? Especially when she's going to be roasted alive because of your defeat.

I loved it too. I seriously suspect that only people lacking empathy did not get it.
Also, I don't think I ever read anything that used that piece of trivia as a plot point, so points for novelty.

>Also, I don't think I ever read anything that used that piece of trivia as a plot point, so points for novelty.
this

Yeah it was pretty fly.

The concept that Batman just never realized that Supes, despite having the powers of a god, is still just another fucking person is pretty great honestly. But they went about the realization in a silly way. Maybe if they played up Bruce losing his shit more throughout the movie. Yeah he was outright killing people and branding criminals, but he never lost his cool until "MARTHA" which kinda makes me think he never even had a 'no kill' rule and was always like this (which I doubt is the case).

I understood and liked the intent but the way it played out was really dumb.

Supes gets MARTHA's name out there in a pretty ham-handed way; I figure it would have been better if Supes just went "you're killing MY MOTHER" and Bats is all like WHOA YOU HAVE A MOTHER TOO????

Of course, that means you can't have the "muh parents twitching in the gutter" line, since that version hinges entirely on Bats seeing Supes as a gross alien god without parents.

I don't refer to my mum by her name

Just have Super say
"Promise you'll save her. Promise you'll save Martha Kent"

Not to be that guy, but when you stop living with your parents you'll eventually stop calling her your Mum to other people.

I've lived away from home for a decade, you condescending prick. She's still mum.

Tripfag, I'm forty, and I'm currently shitposting in a Vancouver apartment a country away from my mother, and I still refer to her as "mom".

Hey I said not to be that guy. Didn't mean any offense to you.

People born and raised on the virtues of pride rarely understand any form of bonding or altruism.
I couldn't tell you how many stories based on brotherhood or friendship go completely over the heads of nearly everyone I knew back in high school. While my circle has gotten tighter as the years have gone by, you can still pick up on it just listening to conversations in/around the theaters; people frequently confused by self-sacrifice or voluntary peril on the part of any character.

While it has nothing to do with the Martha scene, I'm willing to bet it's the same branch of people that chose it to complain about over everything else; either as a red herring to dissuade discussion from the film's extensive list of actual flaws, or out of legitimate confusion and misunderstanding.

You refer to her as "mom" to other people? Hmm I find that strange. My bad.

How?
What's strange in saying "My mom".

Even if you don't call her mom, would you say with your dying breath, save Martha or save my mom?

I think most people would choose the latter, enough that the former sounds odd to most

Unless they're people who know her by her name, why would I call her by anything else?
A complete stranger is immediately going to know who I mean if I say mum. They're not going to know who the fuck I'm talking about if I say Karen without proper context.

Obviously. Why would I refer to someone I know as "mom" and people know as "user's mom" as anything else?

Fair points.

Dumb idea executed poorly.

I think it would have worked better without saying her name. The fuck someone adress his mom by name anyway. So it was badly executed imo. I don't have much problem with the scene but I can see why people made a shitstorm over it. Everyone knows batman has parents issues but at the end he is letting a massive "threat" live because of a coincidence.

desu I still live with my mom and dad and most of the time I refer to them by their names.

My 40yo parents never called their parents by their names.

There was nothing wrong with pointing out that their mothers had the same name. The retarded decision was making it an important turning point of the plot.

Why?

fuck off back to Sup Forums

This

with a semi related point, I live with my parents and have been calling them with their first names since I was a teen. I refer to them to others with first names or as dad/mom, depending on whether they know them or not.

I thought that calling your Mom "Mom" was something made up for movies like having sex or brushing your teeth. Huh... Really makes you think.

Nolan pls

It's not like it's something complicated or deep. There's nothing to "get" here. It's literally
>MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

...

>Tripfag
>Probably never loved by his mom
>Like Snydershit

Why am I not surprised?

>Loves a moment where two guys share a bond between mothers
>Never loved by his Mom
well ok then

Fucktard. See the objective facts that are and

Who calls their parents by their first name? I'm adopted and I still call my guardian Aunt Faye rather than just Faye.

"blah blah blah autists just don't get it"
How do you fags live being this retarded

My mom's name is Karen!!

Yes. You are the only one here who likes it. It's retarded. "Oh his mother's name is Martha, he has a mother, that means he can't be bad."
The very fact that they fought at all was retarded and hamfisted enough without the ridiculous "Martha" nonsense.

Only retards would NOT get it. That was a large part of the reason BvS was crap. The "symbolism" wasn't symbolism at all, it was shoved in your face as though the director was continually saying "geddit geddit geddit!" We "Get" all the symbolism in BvS, it's impossible for anyone that can understand the concept of symbolism NOT to get.

>Trumpfags has absurd levels of autism

Every fucking time

Huh, that was a strange autocorrect, I don't believe I've ever types the term Trumpfags before. Is the Android autocorrect made for shitposting?

This was the only thing I had trouble with. The only explanation that seems legitimate which explains why he didn't say Martha Kent is from this one Youtube video which theorizes that Superman was actually using manipulation. Snyder's Superman is actually incredibly smart in a tactical way, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch I think. This makes the scene a bit different though.

Good grief, the effort he went through to post that and he still missed the point; it was so on-the-nose it was fucking idiotic and the execution was hilariously awful.

The whole film was basically "George Lucas Star Wars Prequels" levels of awful, how do they not get that? This franchise is the Star Wars Prequels of this generation.

No.
Christ, I wish threads that began with "Am I the only one" were autobans.

I think making them fight to begin with was the issue since day one. They should have disagreed sure, but I wanted Worlds Finest where they finally decided to team up, understanding one another's methods. But oh well. Can we least all agree we got a fantastic Batman?

>I wanted Worlds Finest where they finally decided to team up, understanding one another's methods.

Isn't that what happened though?

Add "now that the dust has settled" and "what did he mean by this" and we got a deal

Haha what? No, we got DKR and then DoS, the most WF we got was the scene were Martha makes a comment about Bruce's cape.

Superman said "I was wrong" showing that he understood Batman's methods. After the fight when they made the plan, that nod they gave each other was awesome, a great "World's Finest" moment. Then they teamed up to defeat Doomsday.

It was arbitrary cheesy, but it was the first time I 've seen the fact that both their mothers share the same name used in any medium

I don't like a lot about this movie but this is one of the few things I actually didn't hate. For people who lack empathy, it was a surprisingly Human moment for this Batman they established as being hardened by his Career as Batman. Superman begging him to save Martha, took Bruce back to when he was a child in the night wanting someone to save his Mother. Batman could only see Superman as a threat, this Godlike figure to be feared. When he asks him to save Martha it humanized Superman for him, and that's why he stopped fighting him.

No. We got 2 hours of one planning to beat the shit (or kill) the other, then resolved after they realized they were both being idiots. What I'm talking about is both trying to solve the same issue, which should have been Lex, and more time devoted to what should be a good friendship. The entire fight is stupid because no matter the outcome it's stupid. More dynamic duo, less TDKR.

Batman was the only one being an idiot though, and that was just because of all the bad events he dealt with in his life. They became friends in the third act, but unfortunately Superman died. This causes a bigger impact on Batman because the first new friend he has had in many years dies almost immediately. At least he has Wonder Woman.

>I loved it too. I seriously suspect that only people lacking empathy did not get it.
Agreed.

Superman should have said "my mother is going to die" instead of Martha, that alone should have been enough to distract Batman

Let Lois say her name is Martha.

Wouldn't work. Batman already knows Superman has parents; he just thinks they're aliens too.

The biggest problem I had with the Martha moment is that they had legitimate grievances with each other. Superman had problems with the way Batman dealt with criminals (this gets even more explanation in the ultimate cut) and Batman had a right to be pissed with Supes after the Metropolis incident and even moreso after he wrecked the Batmobile and threatened him. Realizing they had both had a mother named Martha shouldn't suddenly wipe the slate clean.

Superman realized that Batman's methods weren't actually all that bad, Batman realized "muh 1% chance" is actually retarded. Alfred was right, Superman is not their enemy. Even if there is a chance of him becoming their enemy, it's not right to punish someone for something they haven't done yet.

These niggas know what's up

And they found this out not by having a conversation (which they should've tried having from the beginning), but by punching each other until one guy cries out for monmy?

>simplifying things to make it seem bad

What fallacy is this again?

The thing is, Batman realized he was being like Joe Chill in killing an innocent man. He's never killed an innocent man before (though he has manslaughtered criminals). Superman DID want to talk at first, but Batman wasn't having it.

How did you get to that? Nothing about beating the shit out of Superman gives way to realizing Superman is innocent.

And if Superman wanted to establish a dialogue, maybe he should've done that BEFORE wrecking the Batmobile and telling Batman he had enough. Clark was a fucking moron in this movie. Bruce was too, but at least it's established that he's blinded with rage.

>vlcsnap

>How did you get to that?

Batman flashbacks to Joe Chill.

>And if Superman wanted to establish a dialogue, maybe he should've done that BEFORE wrecking the Batmobile
He didn't want to at the time. He only realized later that he was wrong.

Both Clark and Bruce had intelligence. They both just had incorrect assumptions about each other, which is fine unless you want them to be omniscient.

There's nothing intelligent about immediately resorting to violence and threats. For having the superpowers of a fucking god, Superman could stand to have some fucking foresight.

In all seriousness, it's a pretty good idea that has the possibility of becoming a great scene. What could have been a very subtle and clever detail was made into a loud and noisy over exaggerated mess. Imagine if all Superman said during the scene was "Save Martha" and we pan back to Batman shocked expression as he realizes that the two have more in common than he first thought. Its at that moment Bruce figures out not only that Clark Kent is Superman (this would require adding a new scene to the movie where maybe Bruce meets up with Clark and his Mother. Y'know, really show the differences in how the two were raised and the impact their caretakers had on their life/personality). He remembers Clark's mother but more importantly he remembers the tragic loss of his own mother. He stops fighting and lends Clark a hand, ending the fight with Bruce saying "Nobody else has to die tonight"

But instead we had WHO IS MARTHA?!!?! MARTHA!!! WHO IS SHEEEEEE? MARTHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Brevity... is wit"

If he only has so long to save her, I wouldn't tell him "save my mom" and just let him figure out who, I want him to know to save Martha. I would've said Kent too, but w/e

also Cavill sounds like he's shitting himself

He wasn't addressing his mom. He was asking Batman to save her which he can't do if he doesn't know who she is.

>If there's even a 1% chance he's a threat it must be taken as absolute certainty!
>Oh wait he has a mom nvm lol.

The World's Greatest Detective should be able to figure it out, hell Lois Lane figured everything about Superman out and she's not even that good of a reporter.

But there was a time limit so why would Superman make it harder for no reason?

>Batman should be omniscient
>Lois being able to figure out his identity with such a massive advantage doesn't make sense

Did you even see Man of Steel?

Yeah, I did, and found it amazing that a reporter with a shoddy budget was able to track Supes all over the world and find out everything about him in less than a year, but a 20 year hardened Batman couldn't figure out anything about Superman with more than 2 years. Just seems odd that one of the things that Batman is known for (detective work and prep time) were not found in this film at all.

>Just seems odd that one of the things that Batman is known for (detective work and prep time) were not found in this film at all.
I honestly don't know what you expected from someone like Snyder. You can't use slow mo cgi for detective scenes.

>you can't use slo mo for detective scenes
Don't tell that to the people who produce the csi shows.

A reporter who had first hand experience with a guy, able to find people he has worked with previously, and knew exactly how he looked like being able to figure out his identity is implausible for you? Batman studied Superman and didn't know he had a secret identity. You're just pulling bias from different versions you know rather than looking at the situation presented.

>Batman studied Superman and didn't know he had a secret identity
Then it sounds like Batman sucks at detective work.

>Batman should be omniscient

Lois was told to stop writing about Supes because Perry thought it was fake, meaning her budget, which allowed her to make all these trips to speak with people that knew Supes and speak with them, was gone. And she was able to track down Superman who was hiding from the public eye in less than a year. Batman, with literally unlimited resources and a motivation that went beyond curiosity, couldn't be bothered to do any kind of Detective work at all? Come on man, all Bruce would have had to do is look up Clack Kent and run some facial recognition programs. Synder dropped the fucking ball here, yes, he made sure Batman's fights were cool and all, but at least Nolan's shit version of Batman actually did detective work.

>>Batman should be omniscient
>all detectives are omniscient
Your argument is shit user...

No, but he should at least sort of live up to the sobriquet of "world's greatest detective."

Guys, don't forget that this whole comment chain about whether or not Batman should know who Superman is started when someone said it was unrealistic for Clark to call his mom by her first name. Regardless of what Bruce knows, it's perfectly reasonable for Supes to use his mom's name when talking to other people. That's just how communication works. He wanted to be sure that Batman knew it so he said it. The original comment was dumb and this entire argument is moot.

Superman didn't exist when Lois was investigating. She was just looking for a guy who had abilities beyond human.

Coming to a conclusion without ANY evidence is omniscience. Go ahead and explain how Batman would know that Superman has a secret identity in this universe. Good luck.

Remember that time Zod announced to the world that one of his people have been on earth for years, hiding as one of the humans? If that's not a secret identity I don't know what is. Also, coming to a conclusion without any evidence is called a hunch, detectives work to find evidence that can prove their hunches to be facts.

Yes Tripfag, I still refer to my mom as mom. You know why? Because I'm not embarrassed to let people know that I have a mom out there that I still love. She's your mother, why would you refer to her as just any other person? It's kinda sad that you want to take that title away from her just because you feel you're "too old for that". It's not like she raised you or anything.

>Also, coming to a conclusion without any evidence is called a hunch

No it's not. Coming to a conclusion with only a SMALL amount of evidence is called a hunch.

Why would he continue to hide amongst humans after being called out by Zod? Why would he need to? What would knowing Superman's secret identity do to help Batman? Put yourself in Batman's position, without knowing all the things you know by being an audience member. I know that might be hard for you, but try anyway.

I did.

It showed how insane and crazy Bruce Wayne really is. Dude had a mental breakdown just be hearing that name.

If I were batman, and I was planing to fight a god from space, I'd want to know fucking everything about him, not just stuff that would give me a physical advantage, but a psychological one as well. Who is the Superman? Where did he come from? How did he hide on earth for so long? Who knows him best? Why does Clark Kent loom exactly like him and write so many puff pieces?

I don't know man, if I were Batman I would have tried to remember that I'm a fucking detective before anything else.

Right. Which is Batman's primary motivation for every action and has been since the 80s.

You mean like this? Things Batman knows:
Superman is an alien, comes from Krypton, everyone likes him in Metropolis which is why the Daily Planet writes puff pieces on him

How did he hide on earth for so long? Because he looks like a human. Who knows him best? There's no way of knowing. How would you find that out?

An alien that can destroy the entire human race. Why would he have friends? Like I said, from BATMAN'S perspective, not your own pretending to be Batman. Try harder. Visualize what Batman would. Try to put yourself in his position WITHOUT the extra knowledge you have. Add in the Batman's characteristics, why he thinks the things he does.

The Martha moment was fucking retarded. Even worse was after, when Batman says he'll save Martha and Superman looks at him like, "I trust you, guy who was going to stab me to death 30 seconds ago."

>Why does Clark Kent loom exactly like him and write so many puff pieces?
If you're really going to include this argument, then I suggest you never watch or read anything with Superman because you'll always be upset.