Homestuck

Why is JohnRoxy worshiped while Davekat is hated? They were both underdeveloped and rushed at the last second.

>shipping discussion
What a nice fucking thread, OP.

uwu I like them both

Homophobia.

gr8 b8 m8

i think that sburb assumes that all players in a successful session will go god tier, given that the troll session was a failure of sorts and that both kid sessions saw everyone in pajamas

John and Roxy don't screech the plot to a grinding halt to talk about their romantic entanglement, it just happens while other shit is happening. Meanwhile, post-retcon Dave wouldn't shut the fuck up about his situation and forced the audience to slog through multiple pesterlogs of it just to make sure he didn't slip something important between the cracks.

One was clearly setup and developed with romantic intent, the other had a pre-established best friends relationship which worked perfectly fine as an existing dynamic which made sense with the characters.

But what kind of shit question for a thread is that? Come on OP.

Do you hook up with random strangers instead of people you have an existing friendship with?

>Strilondes
>not horny assholes who fuck everything they see

>Fanon used as argument

I seem to recall that Dave's conversations weren't the only ones that happened? And kind of were essential to pushing the plot forward, he had to have his discussion with Dirk otherwise that fight couldn't occur.

Also I mean people complain about lack of exposition of talking about shit but when Dave spends time talking about shit it's an issue. Lmao okay.

haha no thats me! :D

Not the same user, but:

>Karkat
>not ruined by fanon bullshit of him being a turtleneck-wearing weenie who needs cock to breath

>the whole fucking comic
>not ruined by fanon and their shitty memes

I too remember when he went from being a completely rational and totally not impatient teen in Game Over to when he became a..... completely rational and totally not impatient teen in.. his fight with Lord English. Yep. Checks out.
(sorry this is obviously sarcasm but I know subtext is hard for you)

>namefag being a whore
Yeah no shit.

I don't quite speak your language so I'm not sure what you said but have a nice day!

Nah, Hussie is just reminding us that Karkat is a joke character and has been promoted to Dave's cocksleeve.

>as opposed to the fact these threads promote jade to the wank bank pregnancy machine.

you can hardly take the sessions we see as examples of how 'normal' sessions are supposed to go, though

yeah, this is the main problem with really any theories about sburb
we need a guide

Not my fault that all the DaveJade shippers lurk in these threads and promote dank memes.

arabia!

eid mubarak 0u0

...

>to make sure he didn't slip something important between the cracks.

so...

ace dick is canonically gay right

i can't imagine why you'd think that

What did he mean by this?

...

JohnRoxy happening didn't coincide with the destruction of John and Roxy's personalities and previous relationship dynamic
Also we didn't learn about their relationship through half a dozen characters commenting on how cute they are together

no he's straight as an arrow
PI is bisexual though

John wasn't clearly a homosexual with tons of flirting and clear sexual tension with a bunch of male characters who suddenly turned into a straight guy at the end for the sake of...nothing.
Dave being gay did nothing for his character. It just ruined a cool friendship dynamic between him and Karkat.

Dave flirted with guys so fucking much under what rock did you live in which you missed him flirting with Tavros and Equius constantly.

And under what rock do you live that you think someone CAN'T be friends with the person they're dating? Do you just use your partner for romantic gratification and then fuck off? Holy shit.

Both were rushed and last second, but JohnRoxy getting together didn't replace their character development.

Rose is cute!

Also all of this:

>rose havin a giggle

it was a more innocent time

What character development did John get exactly? He hasn't changed at all from the start of the comic to the finish. He didn't even embrace the "leader" role or unify everyone, that was Vriska. He did jackshit development wise.

>John Egbert
>implying he had actual character development

>implying they had a relationship dynamic before they were interested in each other

You can't ruin character development if it doesn't exist or isn't even hinted at.

I still fail to see corellation between Dave and Karkat's relationship and the fact that Hussie just said "fuck it" to Karkat's character development. Even if he was single he'd still get no development in this case. You can't really call the relationship the issue.

so like, ruining character development to you means being slightly happier and dating someone? Karkat's character development wasn't ruined by jack shit, it was straight up left uncared for.

>He did jackshit development wise
what about the retcon????? 8^)

You're right. They aren't actually connected, but the fact that the retcon and Vriskagram have all the bad things in Homestuck all tied together, they all kind of sit together in the same pile of shit.

Instead of everything we were looking forward to with Karkat's character, we got DaveKat. That's where the vitriol comes from.

The guy that said that he wanted to draw everyone in their classpects god tier coutfit posted a new drawing today
He said that there are approximately 20 drawings left to do
At this pace he will finish drawing all of them in the next year

But then constructively discussing where Karkat's character arc could have gone would be way better than just screeching that DaveJade didn't become endgame.

Like I would MUCH rather sit and discuss the potential things Karkat could have done to have a satisfying character conclusion versus just whine about ships.

my bad for the slow as balls pace, been dealing with some shit

Toby is friends with the Pope

Hussie is friends with IPGD

Don't speak for me. I'm infinitely more upset over how Karkat as a character was treated than how DaveJade didn't become a thing.

i 100% fail to get why you're all mad about karkat getting a ship and not character development while there's john who barely even started having some of it and also got a ship

and i fail to get why the vitriol all boils down to shit on a ship instead of being mad at all the character development almost every character was negated. either that or they were given a rushed one. doesn't it sucks more than having a ohnoes gay ship being canon?

and just what the hell did the retcon do to john's character development that is slightly more visible than a "i won't flip out at betty crocker being the condesce duh that's old stuff"

it's fine. thanks for doing these.
seer of void a cute!

i never knew i wanted this but i want it.

i'll probably write it in a bit unless anyone else wants to take a shot

Do you really need to whine about Davekat for hundreds of threads? Give it a rest.

Here's a substitute question for you: which Aspect governs over memory - Light, Heart or Mind?

blood

ClassAspect discussions are slightly worse than Davekat bitching

toby follows the pope

hussie follows pepe

If I had to go with one specific aspect I would be much more willing to state Light considering as an aspect it's also mean to represent information while Mind is moreso about choice.

However thanks to the discussion alt!Callie gave at the end about how aspects are interconnected in a way we can't see I feel way more confident in stating that there probably isn't one set aspect that governs "memories" but each interacts with that concept in it's own way.

...

What is his classpect and land?

i would guess that mind is the neurological memory, as in the physical way it works in your brain with synapses and shit, heart is the "deja vu" instinctive memory, blood might be "genetic memory" or some bullshit like that (see: the signless), and light is just information, which has fingers in all three of those pies.

Pope as a title? Lord of Hope.

This particular pope I don't know enough about to make an accurate judgment.

1. John was always boring. Karkat had potential to be interesting.

2. The massacre of the characters' development being worse doesn't make DaveKat good.

I'll also add that the DaveKat fandom is really what made me hate it. Same goes for most other DaveKat haters I know.

...

johnroxy is shit too but mostly just because roxy is an insufferable mary sue

You know, classpect stuff never interested me. Why are so many people obsessed with it?

I don't know but the more rigorous it becomes the worse it gets
Classpects should be (should have been) regarded as poetic titles and nothing more

Actual autism.

Roxy isn't a Mary Sue

Roxy is a good person who took the time to learn how to git gud

You just think she's a Mary Sue because Rose is a retard who decided to become a drunken whore for three years instead of play game and Dave got too triggered by his extremely useful time travel so he took to swallowing troll dick instead

Classpects turned to shit after it was revealed in Act 5 that they granted the players inherent powers like hope beams and the windy thing.

i like how the classpects refer more to story and meta influence than direct powersets

it makes it an interesting mental exercise to think about not only how they'd work, but what they would mean.

that and i want to imagine myself as special

...

Much appreciated that you're still keeping them in mind, loved my Mage of Hope with the bubble.

Overcoming hardships through the power of friendship/belief/rational thinking/mind lazors was always a major theme in fiction. By using the system of classpects it's possible to outline aspirations of characters, their worldview.

You're not salty.

blaming a ship over shitty character development is still no less of a petty excuse.

whether davekat makes sense to the audience or not is about both canon and our personal perception, and while it makes sense to me i still think it was for the most part badly executed. but the point is that it was as badly executed as almost anything was in the ending and to be honest it's kind of one of the least important things to whine about? yet all i've been reading in 60% of the Sup Forums threads in a year is "boohoo davekat is bad and jade should be pregnant of dave's offspring"

the only thing this fact tells me is that most people's priority here has nothing to do with character development at all.

I would argue that one of the few things the retcon powers did initially for John was forcing him to come to terms with the personal responsibility associated with having influence over events. He accepts that he has to learn to use these new powers, despite his fears of not being the ideal candidate for utilizing them. The problem here being that in the end he just does what Terezi tells him to after shouting at him, instead of working somewhat equally to figure out what to do to ensure the best results. Then everything goes downhill after the retcon happens and no one really acts like they used to.

Stop projecting so hard, yo. Dave was literally just ripping on them as a way to countertroll and make them as uncomfortable as possible. Like, all the hyperbolic sexual things he said in Tavros' conversation can't be taken as anything except ironic (this is what the joke).

...

...

...

And likewise you can bring up the fact he has a brief heartfelt moment about John and how he has a phallic obsession and how other characters CONSTANTLY questioned his sexuality early on, especially Rose and Dave got INCREDIBLY defensive at the idea of being classed as interested in men.

So anyway, if you didn't see it then by all means you're just bad at subtext. Not my problem.

>The problem here being that in the end he just does what Terezi tells him to after shouting at him, instead of working somewhat equally to figure out what to do to ensure the best results.
yes, john sounds like he barely absorbed the consequences of anything. and the others are not better.

yes, and that is exactly my problem. i'm mad about their character development being glossed over. as a davekat fan, the ship not being outright confirmed or actually explored post-vriskagram is quite literally one of the least of my fucking problems with this ending, and i guess i just don't get why the hell is this place so obsessed with crapping on a ship in stale terrible threads instead of discussing what could have worked better to end arcs and close plot holes, or even bitching about something else for a fucking change.

...

Isn't this the exact same argument people used to object to Dirk being gay because he was.. clearly doing it for the ironies. Lmao

i think it's people being salty about davekat shippers who have no standards being all like "CONFIRMED HAHA"

Do you think Dirk could be interested in pussy

I couldn't say. The thing to consider here is context. Dirk, contextually, was openly gay. He didn't care about it, the others didn't care about it.

Even if we go with the assumption that Dave was closeted gay, there simply was not enough "subtext" as is arguing. He showed overt interest in at least two female characters (Jade and Terezi) and this was not disingenuous. None of his interactions with other male characters even showed a slight tipping of the hand. Everything that could be construed as "gay" that he did was, in context, completely disingenuous.

That's the big problem, it's just not something that's congruent with his character at all and the only way it COULD have been is if there was more explanation and a better setup. But Hussie just hamfisted it in after the Retcon, which is why it's bad characterization and people are annoyed.

porrim's

she needs that 100% for her completion fetish

she could just peg dirk

If he didn't want Roxy's he won't want anyone's.

>blaming
You keep saying this, but no one is blaming DaveKat for the shit development. It's just part of it.

I think you may be exaggerating, given the course of 500+ post threads usually cover a good range of posts, including gripes with the post retcon comic. But if I had to offer a reason for its prevalence, outside of the usual controversial reasons any shipping discussion brings, it's likely the way that what were the two most popular characters with the most depth and potential for development came out of the retcon acting considerably differently to their prior selves, due to reasons we didn't get to see. A backlash on the supposed relationship due to the poor character handling from Hussie essentially.

I'd rather find out about a character's aspirations through their actions and interactions with other characters than being told by the Word of God. Especially when the Word of God is inconsistent and deliberately ambiguous to try and shoehorn wildly different personalities into the same box.

But contextually everything Dirk did until he actually was confirmed to be dating Jake was always put down to "irony" regardless of what it was, people were just blinded to the idea of a man liking another man in that way.

There's certainly subtext in place to imply he's gay, brought up how he was defensive over Rose speculating on his homosexuality and there's the very brief moment he mentions he loves John to Rose when it came off as completely random. "I should check up on John, because.. I love him" and then Rose just goes "I know". I agree on that I would have loved to explore further if Dave did have some unrequited feelings for John.

I really do struggle to see where he showed overt interest in Jade so if you could point me into some dialogues that they had I'd very much like to read them. I don't deny that he very much had an interest in Terezi however.

Everything Dave did in context could also be construed as someone dealing with suppressed sexuality who doesn't know how else to state it other than to make it into a joke. It's like how his "irony" was basically a shield for the fact he he felt neglected and uncared for.

The only thing I think Hussie really hamfisted was that he thought he could give us Vriska's reappearance without ANY conflict.

colored this from last night's requests

Karkat I Have Another Joke For You
Knock Knock
You May Be Wondering Who Is Bothering You
It Was Me Kanaya All Along

but isnt he uninterested in girls