Do you agree Sup Forums?

Do you agree Sup Forums?

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No I disagreed yesterday and the day before that when you posted this thread.

I HATE their HERITAGE xD
Someday Alaskans will fuck Canada and the USA out of existence

how do you pronounc lynyrd skynyrd

I hate southern rednecks though

Yes, declaring it a sign of hate is a recent construct.

Linnerd skinnerd

I think it goes roll tide

No. Fuck the south.

>forbid confederate flag
>it's still on the flag of Mississipi
>meanwhile black nationalist flag advocating for a black ethnostate is still allowed
lmao

Jimmy's a cuck

"nigs". If you are prideful of a fundamentally racist organization then how can you say you don't support hate. At Louisiana State University there are still statues up of people who would be called war criminals today. Fuck southern pride.

I am racist and prejudiced against southern rednecks

The first half got cut off, it was long. The gist was I'm from Louisiana and fuck those dumb uneducated racist rednecks.

yes

It's a flag. It means whatever you want it to mean. Had they won the war it would likely be seen as a symbol of freedom. Banning it and fining those who own one or something stupid like that is ridiculous. When someone falls off a ladder and hurts their leg you don't ban ladders, nor would you praise ladders if the person didn't fall and did their job. It is a ladder.

The problem, the thing that needs to addressed is not the ladder, but the people. The same thing applies here and with weapons. Knife crime is not caused by easy access to knives, it is caused by impoverished conditions, lack of opportunity, and gang culture. Banning knives does nothing but put a bandage over an infected wound. Pointless, it doesn't address the problem at hand, merely the sight of it.

It is the same with racism. Banning flags that mean different things to different people, as well as free speech, won't end hatred. It will simply embolden their resentment. To beat racism you must first understand racists, what their qualms are and try to end them. For instance if they do not like black people because black people experience higher crime rates, is it not more productive to focus on the ghetto culture and poverty that black Americans experience? Or perhaps if the racist in question comes from an impoverished place themselves, it is more productive to fund education and community projects there? Ignorance isn't beaten by ignorance. To these people the flag may mean something more than white supremacy. It may mean freedom, heritage, their culture. To label them all as racists and to suppress their expression seems counter-productive when racism is not caused by flags.

Except it was a flag symbolic of a racist cause. Just a flag indeed.

The confederacy was founded in racism to prevent African-Americans from being treated as human beings. It's inherently hateful.

If I'm not mistaken it was a commonly held belief at the time that white men were superior to black men. Everywhere, not just the USA and most certainly not just the Southern states. If we ban symbols because of injustices then there's not a flag in the world that isn't guilty of some crime.

The statue of General Custer (one of those guys who massacred a bunch of red men) and the satue of many others are resurrected all over the South. Most of them not only did bad things, but they failed to do anything good or moral. What do these statures memorialize if not hate. Some southerners from that era do deserve recognition. But it seems people who are stunting about "southern pride" are either historically uneducated or purposefully ignorant.

when he posts it 14 times like the australian, you will believe him

Ok... so you're saying that because they thought it was right at the time that it's ok? I've heard this too many times. That was a stupid science which came down to the size and cranial shape. We know better now... But the flag were talking about is inherently racist is the point. It was designed for a racist regime.

...

>What do these statues memorialize if not hate
Duty to one's home and people. They say history is written by the victors. Never heard anything so true in my life.

The Nazis strongly believed in duty towards country. And hate. Oh and those storm troopers liked that crank.

So what good stuff is Custer known for? Even T. S. Sherman?

Ok, maybe you aren't racist and full of a pride not many can understand. Atleast understand peoples views towards this symbol. It can't be changed just like yours cant.

But they call it "heritage". What does that even mean? Heritage means some culture, traditions, etc. What did they have? Slavery and inbreeding? They should stop bringing up muh heritage. The real heritage is our European roots. I am Irish for example.

I'm saying the flag represents the people, and had they won the war and gained independence it would not be known today as a symbol of racism. Yes it's true that many adopt the flag as a symbol of white supremacy, that is not all it is. And white supremacy, the belief, is not caused by flags. Claiming to be against white supremacy while doing nothing to actually prevent it from gaining popularity in the minds of young, mostly poor and uneducated, white men in the South is ridiculous. How will banning a flag stop their dissatisfaction? One of the principles of the US is free speech. Something I admire greatly. You should engage these men in debate, not expel them from society where their hate will only grow.

The Nazis did many great things for Germany. Reprehensible to outsiders, but could you really blame a German for appreciating them?

You're painting soldiers and generals as good or bad men. They never are.

Culture, wars, traditions, struggles and prosperity. Love of one's home. Willingness to fight and protect your home, working to make it better. Flags symbolise this. Taking pride in your European roots is pathetic. What do you have to do with Europe? Europe is not relevant to you.

3 years ago? It could be, maybe.

Nowadays? They are a bunch of racists that will kill anything black skinned if they could, that's why Trump won, not because of "economic problems" or "getting sick of the old politicians". They just want to make the world suffer.

>Willingness to fight and protect your home
Protect against what? The potential threat of abolitionism? Of all flags their ancestors flew, these fine people just so happen to celebrate the one standing for a rogue slaver state that existed for only 4 years.

So Nationalism>Morality? I guess that's the argument then.

Yes, sort of.
Traditionally, people didn't put the stars and bars on shit to communicate anything against anyone (eg blacks, immigrants, etc) but rather for:
A: show of pride in their ancestry (my great-grandpappy blah blah blah)
B: conservative anti-government defiance (see gadsden flag)
C: rural southern version of being "edgy"

On the other hand, black people (particularly descendants of slaves) have always been justified in considering it at the very least disrespectful, since it honors a rebellion launched primarily over the issue of whether southerners should be allowed to continue keeping them as slaves.

Basically rednecks didn't put up the flag to say "i hate black people", but it at least showed they didn't give a fuck about them.

Morality is a spook

Perhaps. Or perhaps it comes from the bloodiest war on American soil ever fought, one their ancestors paid for dearly and lost. Perhaps this is a tradition in itself, handed down from father to son. It was a horrible war from a horrible time when men would fight and follow orders for no good reason other than duty. The vast majority of soldiers never owned slaves, they were just men willing to die because their leaders said they needed to. When men go to war, the men who actually fight in these wars, they're not fighting for politics. They fight for their family and fellow soldiers. Maybe the veterans came home and flew their flags not because they objected to abolitionism, but to remember their brothers in arms and the time they bled in a horrible war. Maybe they wanted to tell themselves it wasn't all for nothing. I don't know what to tell you mate. It's easy to condemn dead men. Is it wrong to want to remember them? What if America was to go to war today and millions died, the war was lost and the flag became known as a symbol of American imperialism. Would you claim that the descendants of the men who died in that war were imperialists and supported American imperialism? It's not cleanly cut, generalisations help no one.

see above

Except the eternally butthurt south was allowed to write their own history, leading to 160 years of "HONORABLE GALLANT DIXIE DINDU NUFFIN EVIL YANKEES CAME AND BURNED DOWN EVERYTHING FOR NO REASON STATES RIGHTS STATES RIGHTS!"

Because the Union was way to goddamn lenient with the defeated confederacy, the south is now filled with statues to men who came closer than anyone else to destroying the USA and did it so a minority of assholes could keep getting rich off of enslaved blacks.

Every confederate General and politician ought to have been shot.

Ultimately the heritage they're choosing to represent is one steeped in... not even hatred really, but blatant exploitation and dehumanization of others.

That flag is pretty much universally seen as a sign of the confederacy. Some will say that it wasn't their official battle flag, but really everyone knows what time period it came from and the movement that was around that time. The confederacy was created to desperately cling to the slave state, this is undeniable. My family is from Mississippi, our state was very clear about why they left the union, they basically just wrote a love letter to slavery and said bye. The confederate constitution would have forbade any state that was a member from becoming a free state down the line, so much for state's rights. Everyone at the time knew this war was about slavery even before the north made it an official goal.

The hatred came afterwards, when they realized these people were here and they had rights and they couldn't get rid of them completely. That's when you get the klan and other white nationalist groups flying the confederate flag.

But even for people who have no hate for black people they're basically saying "hey man, I know that this flag represents some fucked up, life ruining, dehumanizing suffering for your people, but I'm comfortable having it around so I don't care about that."

So basically the reason people hate the confederate flag is because at best it means "I don't give a shit about you" and at worst it means "I hate you."

...

>being this butthurt about a war you won
is there anybody else in the world who is able to accomplish this besides Yankees?

sounds like you paid attention to your high school history classes user

I agree on the military tradition part. That's why i've always been fine with statues of Lee and Jackson, but not Jefferson Davis & co.

The politicians, the ones who made the decisions and gave the orders are responsible for the war and all of its consequences, and it's unbelievable to me that people would think it's A-OK to publicly commemorate them.

Also I'm kinda surprised to see all these long serious posts in this thread with the state of Sup Forums lately.

Yeah, everyone who is a part of a country where people died shaping it.

imagine being this asshurt

youtube.com/watch?v=_hF7MhEzADM

Maybe I'd be less butt hurt if I didn't have to see you faggots flying that treason rag everywhere I go.

>the ones who made the decisions and gave the orders are responsible for the war and all of its consequences
So we should demolish the Lincoln memorial. Because it was him raising 50,000 men to attack the South without Congressional approval that caused my state to secede after it had already voted to remain in the Union

Reminder that the North started the hostilities by raiding South Carolinian territorial waters

>Southern politicians are responsible for the war
super duper epic meme
reminder Lincoln killed 600,000 Americans because he didn't want the stain of being the President under which secession occurred on his legacy.

>he gets butthurt when he sees symbols or patterns he doesn't like

>muh treasonous Hitler flag
get over it fag

>being butthurt over a piece of cloth

Probably the most accurate summary I've read in a while.

In life, history, and politics, most people don't set out to specifically screw another group over. They just go for what they want and don't care who they screw in the process.

Everyone who got a C- minus in history knows that the North didn't join the war to free the slaves, they did it to preserve the union.

What Confederate apologist never want to address is why they left the union in the first place.

In the first battle the South attacked the North. What are you talking about?

>having a flag is screwing people

The most irrelevant post. Thanks.

Only my flag where it depicts a lynched dead nigger. Southern pride, you understand. No racism intended.

I was talking about the Confederacy itself, not a bunch of butthurt Rednecks who can't accept that their ancestors lost.

>In the first battle the South attacked the North
Star of the West bud

What do you think would happen if the Soviets had sent a frigate into one of our ports

okay

Being from Kansas, a northern state that fought a bloody war to be a non-slave state even before the civil war, I can tell you that the stars and bars are definitely not racist.
I have no personal reasons that I would say this other than to speak the truth and to stand up for freedom of speech
The truth is, that symbols can mean different things to different people, and just because you interpret a symbol one way doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be interpreted by the person who created or is displaying it
The majority of people who fly this flag have said time and time again that it's not about racism, so clearly that's not what it means
and if you have control over your emotions, like any aduly should, then you should be able to come to this conclusion and move on without being a buttblasted retard who wants to destroying these people's heritage (which is essentially cultural genocide, therefore making the people offended by the flag even more racist than the people flying the flag) and destroying art and history.
TL;DR Liberals are p much Nazis

funny how it's always the people like on the left who are throwing around accusations of us being "butthurt"

>it means whatever you want it to mean

Then it means hate.

They left because they believed their states were sovereign and had the right to leave a political alliance.

There's a reason their case was never hashed out in the supreme court, the north was afraid the secessionists may have had legal ground to stand on.

well said

Please explain?

why didn't the north force the south to industrialise and ditch slaves?

>that picture

you understood what he meant perfectly, stop being a tard

No

They still teach that a an Italian discovered America. Not even Genoese I guess is irrelevant anyway.

>this post

>post picture of fat retard with confederate flag and think it makes your side look good

No wonder the confederates ran out of supplies

Andrew Johnson(president) was a racist.

>What Confederate apologist never want to address is why they left the union in the first place.
The secession was about Southern states not wanting to be marginalized and have their economy destroyed. Considering how we turned out after the 13th amendment, I'd say their concerns were justified.

people deny that the South left to preserve their institutions because Yanks keep trying to conflate the reasons for the secession with the reason the North instigated the war

google is your fried

here's a hot bitch with a Confederate flag to make up for it, have I posted enough attractive people next to a piece of cloth to convince you that it's not going to jump to life and start gassing Jews or does your little peanut brain need more to come to this conclusion?

So multiple states decided to leave the union on a whim, to flex their political rights? No worries about certain institutions effected these people at all?

why hasn't the south still recovered?
they can't be that stupid

because Yanks put forth legislation specifically to block rail and industrial development in the South after the war

But what was the north going to do that would destroy the economy? I don't understand where all these worries are coming from. I mean it's not like their entire world was dependent on some grotesque human rights violations that clearly wouldn't last forever and they were desperately hanging onto despite the writing clearly being on the wall that it would come to an end.

> Considering how we turned out after the 13th amendment, I'd say their concerns were justified.

Maybe the south would have handled the transition better if they didn't just fight a pointless war.

why

>But what was the north going to do that would destroy the economy?
The majority of the fighting was in Virginia. It wasn't the war that destroyed the South's economy, it was abolitionists who left us destitute for over a century.

>it clearly wouldn't last forever
but it was the main driver of the South's economy at the time. That's one of the many reasons why the vast majority of the South's male population mobilized to fight the war

they wanted to eliminate us as a threat to northern industry

If you actually read this, it's pretty obvious that it's more about a fear of economic ruin than hating blacks
Which we really fucked up the South economically after we took away most of their property value when they were just starting to industrialize so I mean it turned out to be a pretty legitimate fear

if you're referring to the right to own slaves yeah it was the core moral issue, but focusing on slavery as the cause of the civil war is like focusing on the holocaust in world war 2 a a motive for the war

they also seceded over high cotton tariffs, lincoln not appearing on the ballot in the majority of southern counties and northern manufacturing industries manipulating legislation in their favor at the expense of the south

as for the slaves, nobody in the north or south was coming up with economic alternatives to slavery, the south obviously didnt care to and the north never bothered to come up with anything

the emancipation proclamation was a political maneuver, lincoln only freed slaves in the south, not in any of the slave states that stayed in the union for risk of upsetting them (kentucky, maryland, and missouri)

>I mean it's not like their entire world was dependent on some grotesque human rights violations that clearly wouldn't last forever and they were desperately hanging onto despite the writing clearly being on the wall that it would come to an end.
do you think that every slave-owning society that has ever existed should have been nuked off the face of the planet? Please give a specific date on which you think slavery ceased to be a historical evil and became a "human rights violation" instead. After the war would you have supported a post-war US annexation of Brazil? Do you think if abolitionist Britain had marched in from Canada before secession happened and reintegrated the US into their empire, and given the reason for this as liberation of the slaves in the US, then that would be okay?

The Southern states seceded because the aristocracy wanted to keep their slaves, the Southern states fought you because they wanted you out of their country. That was why the 95% of the population who weren't slaveowners and even some blacks and Indians were fighting you.

Imagine being so brainwashed that you think blatant acts of imperialism are just your country looking after human rights.

oh and by the way, my state seceded after Fort Sumpter and was going to stay in the union until you decided to attack the rest of the Southern states. So fuck off with your bullshit about seceding because of slavery. There were thirteen states in the Confederacy all of which had different motivations.

>putting down an illegal secession in your own nation is equivalent to imperialism

>in your own nation

>illegal secession
the 10th amendment clearly gives states the power to secede. There's nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the states from unilaterally seceding

>your nation
no

>we dindu nuffin
>yankee bastards attacked us 4 no raisin
you guys are as bad as the serbs sometimes

Eh, parts of it have more than recovered and are doing better than most of the country (eg Texas, North Carolina). In fact so many people are moving there that they keep taking congressional seats away from the old northern states like New York.
Basically the parts that realized that the North's industrial economy was the future have had success, and the rural "muh agrarian republic" fools are still ass-backwards.

Yanks attacked us because they couldn't afford to run the government without the income from cotton export tariffs

>yankee bastards attacked us 4 no raisin
please remind us why you did attack us, then.

I never said it had anything to do with hating blacks, you act like that somehow makes it better. The south built their economy on exploiting human beings until they were little more than cattle. They were afraid they would lose that right to exploit people like they were cattle, this is not a sympathetic cause to most people, especially the descendets of the people that were being exploited.

>We didn't blow up Alderaan because we hated them, we did it for our rights and economy!

> but focusing on slavery as the cause of the civil war is like focusing on the holocaust in world war 2 a a motive for the war

If the German economy was heavily dependent on the holocaust then yes, that would be the case.

and as you and both seem to be confused I am not arguing that the North went to war to free the slaves, I literally said that was not the case here > do you think that every slave-owning society that has ever existed should have been nuked off the face of the planet?

No, but if they fall and are replaced by a government that makes slavery illegal I'm not going to cry over them for the next 150 years.

> Please give a specific date on which you think slavery ceased to be a historical evil and became a "human rights violation" instead.

Not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

> The Southern states seceded because the aristocracy wanted to keep their slaves,

Great glad we could agree on something,

> the Southern states fought you because they wanted you out of their country.

And preserve a certain way of life for themselves, the aristocracy and the enslaved.

> That was why the 95% of the population who weren't slaveowners and even some blacks and Indians were fighting you.

Imagine being so brainwashed you would fight to create a permanent slave state

> No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

South Carolina literally sold the lands that fort Sumter was on to the federal government
Star of the West was a chartered, unarmed merchant ship
You opened fire on a cargo ship, and then laid siege to a fort that you had sold to what was then a separate country
the absolute state of south carolina
>trigger happy military students attack foreign ship
>double down and attack another country's military base (that you sold them)
>be allied with other states with a demonstrably worse industrial output
>depend on European trade for income, do not secure allegiances before starting a war
>fail to capitalize on early victories and incompetent union leadership
>lose the war anyway
>be butthurt about shooting yourself in the foot for the next 150 years

>post literally ANYTHING about the american civil war, for or against either side
>amerifats utterly lose their shit
i'm lovin' it

This. When I read these types of threads I always see Southerners being the most chill posters while Northerners get their asses devastated. It's pathetic how the winners are the one whining desu

(Pronounced 'Lĕh-'nérd 'Skin-'nérd)

I actually live right next to the high school they went to where their PE teacher (Leonard Skinner) inspired the bands name

>barbarism is all the heritage Americans have

These people are pathetic.

hate us cuz you ain't us

Yes