Has anyone else been really disappointed in Rebirth? It feels like a broken promise

Has anyone else been really disappointed in Rebirth? It feels like a broken promise...

Other urls found in this thread:

newsarama.com/29368-dc-s-rebirth-almost-like-a-reset-to-get-back-to-the-basics-according-to-didio-lee.html
hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rebirth-geoff-johns-talks-bringing-897289
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Not really reading every DC book so far.

It feels like they gave us everything we asked for.

>2 Wallys
Aw yeah

What promise was broken?

Hardly anything has happened yet. Wait like a year then you're allowed to complain.

Only books I've been disappointed in so far are Action Comics and Justice League, and even then I should've expected what we got given the writers.

It's gotten me to actually read comics and for the most part I'm enjoying it.

Doesn't Sup Forums hate black Wally? Did he do something to not be hated or was the hate just Wallyfags in the first place?

He's not bad, but he was introduced in the middle of a pretty poor run of Flash and wasn't established well.

He introduction left bad taste, stereotypical back story.

Not OP but I feel the same. It seemed like they were bringing back the original continuity but instead it's just shoehorning things into the shitty new one. And they didn't "fix" anything really, not while the main Superman and Lois are strangers from another Earth with no relationships to these characters and no mythology of their own.

The previous countinity didn't really come back.

Oh. That's it?

>It seemed like they were bringing back the original continuity

Yeah, that was never gonna happen.

There are still some people who are delusional fanboys who refuse to accept the New 52 no matter what. They will take nothing less than a direct and complete reset back to pre-Flashpoint.

Remember, even by the mid 90's there were still butthurt fantards thinking they were going to go back to pre-Crisis.

They never said it would.

Why can't they just make an Earth where Flashpoint happened and another Earth will it did? Why does one continuity have to die so that another can live? Especially when Multiversity implied that the multiverse is infinite.

There is no reason we can't have Nu 52 and New Earth.

I hate it because it's even more useless than New 52

Most of the New 52 problems could have been fixed or even retconed in some extreme cases. But they are making this big thing about it.

Not to mention Superman is completely fucked.

>Oh Superman from the New 52 is not the Superman I like

Fine, they could have changed him a bit. Now Superman is a guy stranded in this universe. The people he knew in the original universe are gone. The people in this universe aren't the same. Krypton is not really HIS Krypton. Supergirl is not really his relative, etc...

And we should have a pre-Crisis Earth too?

Most recent issue of Action Comics made the previous ones A LOT better IMO.

I still can't believe how easy it is to get people excited by superficially "changing everything". It's still a clusterfuck of mediocrity continuing the tainted legacy of one of the worst decisions the company made.

Because thats dumb.

In a few years time people will be bitching about wanting a return to Nu52 and then writers will get into power to fuck it all up.

Repeat cycle.

I really don't get how they can think such a move is possible. There's so many people who got into or got back into DC because of the New 52 (myself included). All of their media adaptations for the past 5 years borrow heavily from these versions. You go into any comic book store and the most obvious starting points for DC characters are the shiny New 52 volumes labeled 1,2,3,4, etc.

To think they could throw that out and say, remember August 2011? Next month that's where we're continuing from, would just be ridiculous and please no one.

I've only been collecting comics for about a year and a half, and everything I've collected is Marvel. I'll be picking up Rebirth Batgirl, but I don't know too much about DC. Can you guys recommend any other Rebirth titles?

And a pre WW II Earth where Batman shoots people with a gun and Superman's a New Deal Superhero!

He need his own thing.
Maybe with some not hack writers.

Why not? You can have good bizarre slice of life stories with Superman. Specially nowadays when stories like that have become popular.

nah, he had a horrible intro and never had another writer. now there's hope for the boy and with Wally back there's no awkwardness replacing a character and all his history. (black wally is fine, wally without all his history and relationships is not. ((ex. wally and dick are BFFS but the nuWally was younger than Damian!)))

>In a few years time people will be bitching about wanting a return to Nu52

I doubt. Too many stupid changes that left damaged characters behind.

Golden Age/Silver Age Earth-2 was the shit, yo.
I wouldn't mind.

What sort of stories do you like? Most of the Rebirth titles are pretty good so it depends on which heroes appeal to you the most.

Why not? It's a big multiverse. I'm sure you can get some really good stories on worlds like that.

Again why does one Earth have to die for another one to exist? There is no good reason to plow under one Earth for another.

When a new season of Digimon starts they don't kill off the world of the last season.

Well, I dig Batgirl and Supergirl, but I hear the new super girl series will be related to the show? My marvel collection is mostly Spider-Man and Doctor Strange. What books are you enjoying, currently?

Nah man when Superman and Batman became propaganda pieces for American Imperialism they went to hell!

I mean over at Timely Comics they made a hero called fucking Captain America! That character definitely won't last once Franklin "I did Pearl Harbour" Roosevelt is gone!

>Sup Forums shitposter from 1942

You can still have a Nu 52 Earth. Just don't murder New Earth. Put it on the multiverse map and put it in the cosmic toybox until a writer wants to use it.

Again, one doesn't have to fucking be destroyed for the other to exist. That's a false dilemma.

People defending the New 52 and wanting to go back to it have no idea what constitutes a good comic.

And DC is still too stupid/lazy to do this. It's so easy.

>Has anyone else been really disappointed in Rebirth? It feels like a broken promise...

No

>but I hear the new super girl series will be related to the show?

Other than her costume being potentially the same/similar I don't see it having anything to do with the show. I'm pretty sure DC learnt their lesson as far as that's concerned when they tried to make Green Arrow like the show and everyone hated it.

Personally I'm picking up Batman and Superman, but I read the storytimes for others when they're posted on here and I'm enjoying them. I'm really digging both Superman and Batman.

>The previous countinity didn't really come back.

And they didn't say they were doing that. It was a continuity patch like past "rebirths"

Can you see someone saying that they miss... unh, Nu52 Earth 2 characters? Or Nu52 Harley? Or Nu52 Creeper?

>I still can't believe how easy it is to get people excited by superficially "changing everything"

Probably because they didn't change everything. Wally came back, that's all that changed. Superman came back with DCYou

Did you read Convergence/Multiversity? That's exactly what they did.

Pre-Flashpoint still exists, it's just not the Prime Universe anymore and they aren't currently writing any comics about it.

>Or Nu52 Harley?

I can see a lot of people saying that actually. outside of your Sup Forums hugbox Harley is more popular than she has ever been. Harley was always a shit character though.

And I do miss the original Earth 2 characters from when Robinson was running the show

How can I be disappointed if I expected nothing?

>Did you read Convergence/Multiversity? That's exactly what they did.

No, it isn't.

Nobody knows what the end of Convergence was about and Multiversity only showed 52 universes with the possibility of a second multiverse, but no confirmation of the pre-Flashpoint universes as they were.

They aren't writing any comics about it is exactly the problem and the umpteenth example that the higher ups have no idea what the fuck they are doing.

just because you didn't understand it doesn't mean nobody else did. It was pretty obvious.

So explain the end of Convergence, please.

Wait till the Manhattan story finishes.

>Nobody knows what the end of Convergence was about

All those double spreads of past universes and continuities turning into the New 52 multiverse should have clued you guys in to what was going on

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the Multiverse. The Crises happened in universe and they caused the reboots. Its not that the universe was just rebooted. Everything has happened to create this Multiverse.

Yes, that the old universes "evolved", meaning the we're stuck with the current versions.

Then Darkseid Wars ignored the idea of Crisis on Infinite Earths being undone.

Crisis still happened at some point otherwise it could never have been undone. The universe is a part of the narrative.

Doesn't change the fact that the concept of the multiverse means precisely fuck all currently.

There's currently one main Multiverse, mapped out in Multiversity, and then any other theoretical Multiverses beyond that. That includes the TV Multiverse, and the movie Multiverse. As Morrison said, like champagne bubbles in a glass.

Convergence showed that that the characters you know about went back and stopped the whole merging of universes and reboot that gave birth to the 1986 New Earth universe, but then instead of showing that there was still infinite universes, like how there used to be before Crisis on Infinite Earths, they only showed the current 2011 52 universes with the excuse that shit evolved.

The whole event made no sense.

>That includes the TV Multiverse, and the movie Multiverse.

No confirmation. That's only your theory.

newsarama.com/29368-dc-s-rebirth-almost-like-a-reset-to-get-back-to-the-basics-according-to-didio-lee.html

>Jim Lee: Geoff came up with this brilliant story that basically allows us to seat the “New 52” within the continuity that preceded it.
>So it really synchronizes and harmonizes pre-52 with “New 52” continuity, I think in an elegant way that allows, I think, long-time fans to have their cake and eat it too, and all the new fans that we got through the “New 52” to keep up with the fact that the universe is continuing to grow and evolve and is exciting and new.
>Dan DiDio: You know, as an overarching plan, it really was about trying to find ways to align all the storytelling, to bring it all in to some sort of harmony.
>It felt like we had these cold starts and stops in the DC Universe, but it's all one, continuous universe moving forward.

hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rebirth-geoff-johns-talks-bringing-897289

>Geoff Johns: What happened with the New 52 was that a brick wall had been built between that and everything that had happened before. In my mind, it was like a brick wall, and it felt like, say, the version I read of Raven wasn't the Raven I'm reading now. It felt like the emotional connection I had with the character broke.
>One of my first goals was to break that brick wall down with a giant hammer. In doing that, my core idea was that somebody stole moments from the DCU, and it equates to about 10 years. In the book, Wally says that, but it wasn't just [any] ten years — it was the moments where the characters started to bond. Whatever moments those were, whatever stories those were, they were extracted. And that's why the characters became cold and distant from one another, because they no longer had that history.

>it was like a brick wall
>One of my first goals was to break that brick wall down with a giant hammer.

And with these limitless possibilities how many comics are set outside of the shitty New 52niverse? Just 1

I'm still really, really questioning the decision to shove Watchmen into the main DC continuity. I'm glad Wally is back and all, but nothing really got "fixed" and the new stuff is hard to accept.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a broken promise, but it isn't what I expected.

Nah, it's been pretty nice so far. The quality in general has gone up for most runs.

>Fine, they could have changed him a bit. Now Superman is a guy stranded in this universe. The people he knew in the original universe are gone. The people in this universe aren't the same. Krypton is not really HIS Krypton. Supergirl is not really his relative, etc...

This is the absolute worst thing about Rebirth. i don't know how could they have fucked this one up. Such a status quo is absolutely convulted and atrocious. Explain this, DiDio apologists.

What are you even talking about? Have a COIE Earth would be an Earth set in the past. You want a book set in the past?

No its not it all exist in the bleed. Jesus Christ did Morrison showing all the Crisises on that splash page of Nix watching them not make it clear enough for you people.

>we draw the line at 2.99
Proceeds to have everything 3.99+

Yeah, but then Convergence shat all over Multiversity.

And you still can't say that a movie verse exist without any confirmation.

No Convergence did not. Braniac was pulling those Earths out of the bleed. Did you read either event?

I have a good 6+ DC books on my pull list which is more than I usually have total. So no, Rebirth is fantastic.

Marvel is the one with all 3.99

New 52 wasn't precisely a bad idea. It just that was executed ATROCIOUSLY.

Young Animal will be the new hotness. Rebirth was just a formality.

You have no idea how dumb you just made yourself look.

>Pre-Flashpoint still exists, it's just not the Prime Universe anymore and they aren't currently writing any comics about it.

Wrong. Johns confirmed the Post-Flashpoint universe is still the same Pre-Flashpoint universe, only that was modified by Flashpoint/Manhattan.

>Has anyone else been really disappointed in [EVENT]? It feels like a broken promise...
No shit, OP.

It does exist, its just in the past. Booster could go there.

You could say that about pretty much any major Big Two event of the past decade.

Morrison implied everything is in cannon in Multiversity, but he was never explicit.

Convergence stopped Anti Monitor but somehow the old Earths transformed into new Earths. Which effectively destroyed those Earths.

Morrison implied everything is in cannon in Multiversity, but he was never explicit.

Convergence stopped Anti Monitor but somehow the old Earths transformed into new Earths. Which effectively destroyed those Earths.

What DC needs to do is show that the Earths everyone cares about are alive and not dead. A single one shot would accomplish this.

It could have been good if they didn't shot the bed with the whole "evolved" bullshit.

Just make all the Earths exist and explicitly show them all to exist. It's not hard at all to do.

Both are true. The original Pre-Flashpoint Universe that we read about in the comics is still the Prime Universe, only morphed into the New 52 Universe via Manhattan/Pandora.

In addition, the Pre-Flashpoint Universe from Convergence was a pocket of time ripped out of the Bleed, which then became it's own universe and time started proceeding again in its own way, in new directions, eventually becoming one of the universes seen in Multiversity.

And anyways, the old universe you want still exists in the Bleed via Hypertime, everything is canon, etc. etc.

Basically, if DC wanted to write a story about the old DC Universe, there is nothing stopping them. They just don't want to.

But shouldn't they still be around if Anti-monitor got wrecked?

The evolve stuff would make sense if it was like the old Earths grew and developed to make up for lost time but that isn't what it is. How did pre crisis Earth-2 become Nu 52 Earth 2?

If Crisis on Infinite Earths was undone then Multiversity can't happen, cause the new 52 universes that were shown in Multiversity were a consequence of all the previous crisis and whatnot.

It wasn't undone, the Bleed and Braniac exist outside of time and space.

They exist at the point before Braniac took them. It's like time travel but just in infinite directions.

>Sup Forums can finally have a reasonable conversation about Rebirth instead of responding to every criticism with console wars bullshit

>proceeding in their own way in new directions

That's where it breaks down. How did Earth 2 become Nu Earth 2?

The same way Earth-0 became New 52 probably. Dr. Manhattan shenanigans. Plus, it doesn't have to be 1 to 1. Earth-2 could have become New 52 Earth-26 for all we know.

What do you mean? Flashpoint recreated everything. The Earth 2 that Braniac plucked out the was Pre Flashpoint was from the past but the Bleed exist outside of time and space.

Do you watch Flash? Think time remnant. Just cause Flash time remnant dies doesnt mean he would be dead if someone travelled back before he died.

So they exist before being destroyed by an event that was prevented?

Just make a one shot about pre crisis Eaths being shown to be okay after Convergence. Old Earth one crossing over with Old Earth two and some of the more interesting Multiversity Earths.

Look... i'm going to try to explain you this as clearly as possible.

In THE MULTIVERSITY we're shown the Post-Flashpoint 52 current universes. These universes were created after INFINITE CRISIS and 52 and later changed by FLASHPOINT. So for the current 52 universes to be able to exist then CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, ZERO HOUR, INFINITE CRISIS, 52 and FLASHPOINT have to happen. They simple must.

But CONVERGENCE ended with certain characters going back in time to CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS and stopping the collapse of the pre-CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS multiverse. Then the comic implied that the current multiverse, which only have 52 universes in total, was the same as the pre-CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS multiverse, which had infinite universes. Shit simple evolved and regressed at the same time without explanation.

Do you understand it now? CONVERGENCE was a shitty event that made no sense. Even Geoff Johns ignored it in DARKSEID WAR.

But they went back and prevented it in thwir Multiverse, not in the New 52 Multiverse. The one where it still occurred still happened in the Bleed to lead to the new 52. You are thinking only in terms of forward and backwards, but the Multiverse exist in every direction.

COIE was a mistake. It sought to delete everything for the sake of marketing to casuals. Pure Oblivion Machine.

But instead of just fixing it so that we have worlds effected by the crisis alongside worlds that weren't so that everything simply exists in an infinite multiverse they introduced this convoluted "evolved" nonsense.

you aren't thinking about it from a narrative point of view. All of those events still happened. Everything that's been written has happened. And then afterward they were undone, but that doesn't really matter. If the Crisis happens, you have one way of things progressing. If it doesn't happen, you have another way. But they both equal the same result. The Multiversity Multiverse and the Convergence Multiverse end up being the same thing.

>To think they could throw that out and say, remember August 2011? Next month that's where we're continuing from, would just be ridiculous and please no one.

It would please me. New 52 was and remains a mistake.

I'm not crazy, I know there's no going back, but I don't have to like it. It was a stupid idea done for no good reason, and they fucked up even the reason they gave for doing it.

I love the idea of there being a no crisis universe. I love it I love I love it. But DC will never do the honorable thing and explicitly show this multiverse.

>But they went back and prevented it in thwir Multiverse, not in the New 52 Multiverse.

No, stop it. Stop trying to find bullshit excuses of a shitty event. You're not even making sense.

Infinite universes + CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS = 1 universes + INFINITE CRISIS/52 = 52 universes + FLASHPOINT = 52 universes 2.0.

That's how it was before Convergence. But then...

Infinite universes + CONVERGENCE = 52 universes 2.0. But how? Yeah, shit evolved, but how? The comic doesn't explain and every other comic has been ignoring this shit. DARKSEID WAR ignored it.

People who got into that recently are probably flexible and curious enough to be interested in how the comics were before they were fucked with to appeal to them.

No crisis multiverse I mean.

It was never meant to be anything other than a minor fix. Just a partial improvement.

They never said anything about bringing back the old continuity. I'd prefer if they did, but I'm willing to accept a non-shit version of New 52.

>Remember, even by the mid 90's there were still butthurt fantards thinking they were going to go back to pre-Crisis.

Old guy here. This is just plain false. I literally NEVER heard any post-80s thinking pre-Crisis was coming back. And aside from Mark Waid, no one really wanted it back. The Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot was actually VERY popular and saw a massive, and most importantly PERMANENT, turnaround in sales for DC, which had been under 20% in market share before that.

Are you seriously this fucking dense? Just cause they went back to their earth and undid it doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's not how time travel works. It just created a splinter timeline in the bleed where they can exist. Again stop being retarded and thinking in terms of up and down when there is also side to side and diagonal.

The thing about CONVERGENCE is that they wanted to roll the clock back and undo CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS giving us the possibility of a multiverse with infinite universes.

The problem was that Dan Didio was scared of shitting all over Grant Morrison's hard work on THE MULTIVERSITY in setting up a neat multiverse with 52 universes.

So they tried to have it both ways without explaining why instead of now there being a multiverse with infinite universes since CoIE was averted we are stick stuck with a multiverse with just 52 universes.

They got scared.

>splinter timeline multiverse

I want this to be real. But that's not what we got. We got the old Earths saved and then somehow killed again when they evolved.