What the hell happened?
When and why did Marvel have such a drop off in quality?
Low talent pool of writers and artists?
Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?
Is it a lack of caring by Disney?
The X-men property being ignored?
I love Marvel but it's gotten to the point where I feel every good run on a major title was a minimum of 3 years ago. Most of them longer than 5 years ago.
Seriously, what happened?
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Their best stuff was in the sixties, seventies and eighties. They've been growing steadily worse for decades. You're just now getting old enough and experienced enough to notice.
Bump
Idk. Astonishing X-men, New Avengers for awhile, Brubaker's Captain America, Immortal Iron Fist.
Marvel had a decent resurgence like 10 years ago up until 2010 then I feel like it started falling off little by little to 2012 then in the last 3 it just died.
>Marvel
>Good
When?
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?
nailed it.
Most of their top tier writers left for indie work. The few that aren't just writing their own stuff are now at DC.
>Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?
>The X-men property being ignored?
Nope Characterfaggotry is always unhealthy.
Oh look! It's that very same shitpost thread that's been put up five times already!
I wonder how long it will be before the openly racist Sup Forums posts start again?
Doesn't matter! Because nobody obeys board rules, do they?
Probs cuz they realize they can get away with releasing dreck and MCU cucks would still buy it regardless because hype.
Marvel has been terrible for years now, Sup Forums has nothing to do with their lack of quality
>The X-men property being ignored?
This is the only good thing. If only they could ignore inhumans too.
>user critics marvel = racism
kek
Honestly, I put it up because I feel like their has been a drop in quality, especially in the last 3-4 years. I chose "legacy characters" wording to avoid as much of the obnoxious Sup Forums crowd as possible.
Do you feel like Marvel comics are just as good today as they were 10 years ago? 5 years ago?
Why or why not?
>When
After AvX
>why
Editorial wasn't letting their best creatives do their best work, leading many big names to leave over the past 4 years.
Fite me, then we do the team up thing and fite the Inhumans.
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?
Mostly this, with a little bit of this
>Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?
But only because legacy's are lazy by nature and only get popular by riding off better character's deserved popularity.
>A&XvI
>>A&XvI
Beg pardon?
It's not like they have to try
Just stick Bendis on a few books, take a relatively seasoned writer or two from DC after they get some fans, make some outrage so they'll get noticed, and slap some variants on. Then they watch all the money roll in and still end up in first.
Avengers and X-Men vs Inhumans....
>implying Avengers won't take the Inhumans side
Oh, I'm a fucking idiot.
You fuckwits wanna bet on if this, or the next completely identical thread that will be posted this month, will include shitposters who start saying how minority races and liberal politics are Marvel's problems?
...and then the thread becomes all neo-nazi butthurt again, just like all the others were.
It's not hard to predict how a shitpost thread will be the same as the last shitpost thread.
For God's sake! They even use the same OP image every time.
liberals and sjw
Idk. It seems like the Star Wars titles are keeping a lot of other things afloat right now.
Although looking at the monthly sales for Civil War 2 are astonishing. I can't believe that many people are buying and reading that garbage.
Yeah, that one shouldn't count...
Nobody's being racist right now. The vast majority of the legacy characters Marvel has right now are objectively terrible.
The only one I kind of liked was the new Ghost Rider, and I haven't seen him anywhere in a long time.
You just have a persecution complex.
I think you just want to shut down any criticism of Marvel since you see the world in black and white. Only the sith deal in absolutes.
I think right now you're as bad as any Sup Forums shitposter. You're not adding anything to the conversation if Marvel has indeed gone down in quality or if they have, why?
You're just fanning the flames of other obnoxious Sup Forums posters like and.
More than their Star Wars titles are selling well
marvel has dropped in quality the past year or so, DC has been bad for a little long i would say
spidey has been held hostage by slott
hickman is taking a break from non-creator stuff
pander books that have no soul (kamala was surprisingly good, i had no expectations)
or meme books with poor art and talent
fem thor is complete shit, which is mind-boggling since aaron wrote a metal thor
disney sending the F4 & x-men into limbo so marvel gives them lower writers
spurrier's legion was amazing
DC's problem seems to be more management and editorial but that hurts just as bad as writing, but rebirth seems to be big fix
grayson was absolutely based
i have no doubt getting priest on slade will be a defining run
johns is off justice league but might be an idea man now instead of a full-time writer
rucka back on WW (but the cho bullshit just shows editorial didn't user their power)
we'll see how the next 2 years plays out
The new Ghost rider was pretty solid. I'd give Marvel that. Miles is decent too although I haven't read a lot of his new title just Ultimate.
>le Sup Forums boogeyman
you're part of the cancer that is killing Sup Forums
Basically all this. I did enjoy Captain Falcon though while it lasted. But now that Steve is back there's really no point to him. Multiple of one characters just really put me off.
I think Marvel literally just stopped putting "quality" into the equation when making comics.
And I don't know if it's them being purposely stupid or going the Moneyball route incorrectly. They like stirring the pot up, grabbing creators that they think will grab people's attention and make people mad (and "thus" get readers), changing characters so that attention is brought to them and people get mad, etc. And, through all this, the actual quality of the comic never really comes up as something to worry about.
Like, to the degree that they'll put a "good" writer on a book, they're doing it precisely so they can market it as "critically acclaimed writer on book Z". They don't seem to care about whether the resulting series is actually decent.
As with most comic things (including the changes needed for DC to go from end of New52 imprint --> DCYou --> Rebirth being a success), I think it essentially boils down to fixing the editing teams and, y'know, shooting Alonso in the face.
DC was lucky as hell that Geoff Johns could do Bob Harras's job in his sleep. I genuinely don't know if Marvel has anyone like that -- which means it'll take firing Alonso, firing the current editors, attracting brand new editors across the board, hiring a new EiC, creating new collaboration processes for the creators and editors, etc.
It took DC about 2-3 years to do most of those things, and that's *without* firing Harras and finding a replacement.
I also have no doubt that Marvel is already trying to fix their editing situation (because there is no way Disney was happy about ANAD, the lukewarm response to Marvel Now, etc.). But even if they go through with it, it'll still take like 3-4 years before the average comic is readable.
Miles is aggressively boring, as is most shit Bendis writes.
The only stuff worthwhile from Bendis is something you can ironically enjoy like CW2.
>basically begging for racist shitposts ITT by complaining about non-existent racist shitposts ITT
>calls everyone else a fuckwit
baka
comichron.com
That's still a shitload of Star Wars near the top.
>Ironically enjoy.
Any ironic enjoyment I had was stripped away when he killed off Banner. It was so half assed and sudden. Bruce deserved much more. youtube.com
>implying Steve being Captain Hydra is not a 'fuck you' to Captain Falcon fans
It's against those fucking rules that nobody enforces anymore.
When it's one opinion based on actual facts and discussion of some form of source material that you can argue for or against, that's legit.
This isn't that and you fucking know it.
What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.
Nobody will cite a source without lying about what was portrayed in the book, nobody will acknowledge any defense or argument in favor of these comics, nobody will have a conversation in good faith.
The only reason this thread exists is to shitpost, troll, and shout down anyone who actually enjoys comics.
There used to be rules on Sup Forums about that.
But if they aren't enforcing those rules and are allowing this open rule breaking, seriously, how long until these threads become the places for posting cp?
Yeah, you're right. The OS tie-in for GotG started off in that category, but I was so angry at the end that I ripped a textbook in half.
Seriously, you're still one of the only shitposters.
Zero shitposts and a source about sales. It's like you don't want to acknowledge you're more of a problem than anyone else...
You're the only one shitposting here.
Most of us are having discussion about the decline of Marvel. If you go back just three years ago, you can see how far they've fallen. Marvel is in a very predictable pattern right now, and it's just getting pathetic by this point.
You are genuinely stupid enough to believe that any and all criticisms of Marvel are seeded in racism.
because there shilling out for the movies
>It's against those fucking rules that nobody enforces anymore.
There is no rule being broken here.
>When it's one opinion based on actual facts and discussion of some form of source material that you can argue for or against, that's legit.
This is what we're discussing right now. There has honestly been a decline in quality and we want to discuss it to find out what it is.
>This isn't that and you fucking know it.
See my point above.
>What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.
You mean like you're doing?
>Nobody will cite a source without lying about what was portrayed in the book, nobody will acknowledge any defense or argument in favor of these comics, nobody will have a conversation in good faith.
What source is there to site, it's a discussion, not a report. No one here is lying about any books, and clearly there are going to be people who like the books. There's probably people who liked Pixels.
>The only reason this thread exists is to shitpost, troll, and shout down anyone who actually enjoys comics.
Again, what you're doing
>There used to be rules on Sup Forums about that.
No there haven't
>But if they aren't enforcing those rules and are allowing this open rule breaking, seriously, how long until these threads become the places for posting cp?
Now you're really grasping for straws.
This man is either a moron, defiantly fighting a problem that doesn't exist. Which is kind of hilarious.
Or he's a master quality troll artist.
>What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.
Good, this is Sup Forums. Everyone ITT, especially (You) and OP, are cocksucking faggot fuckwits.
Shitposting aside, no. This has been a mostly civil thread for discussion about the dip in Marvel's offerings.
I bet you don't even read comics.
How are those bed bugs going for you, Leth?
The garbage of most of their titles aside. There are a few that are decent. Ironically, it's ones more off the beaten path that aren't the big teams or names.
I've liked the new Black Panther so far, Ant-man has been fun.
Is it editorial involvement on the bigger properties preventing writers from having free rein?
You really think this is going to be all sunshine and lollypops on here?
The entire premise of these threads is to post your hate.
That's the ask.
Explain how the fuck that doesn't veer into the same racebaiting shitposts and trolling opinion echochambers that the other threads became.
You already know what picture is going to eventually be posted. You're remembering what one I'm talking about, right now. And you remember what's always written along with it. Every time. You can't say that's not going to happen again, because that was the ask.
Shut up, nigger.
I'm now convinced you're a troll. No one could be this dumb.
You're just not the target demographic anymore, so the stories don't appeal to you
They still dominate the market
There's currently about 20 different posters ITT, and you're the only one talking about racism. Its a very common opinion on this board that Marvel is in a shitty state right now.
You are the one person here trying to ruin our conversation.
And, no. I have no clue what picture you're talking about.
It's already happened.
Jani-sama already mopped it up.
Let us continue our thread in peace.
Early 2000s Marvel was awesome. The best decade of the editorial since the 60s.
I think that's part of the issue. Marvel has reshuffled a lot of their editing staff over the last few years and their direction from above is lacking. Writers given more free rein are getting boom or bust mixed results but it's better than the bland schlock most of the titles that are under stronger editorial control are getting.
Alright. Any predictions for NOW 2.0?
You think they're gonna unfuck themselves or will they double down on their shitty practices?
>implying X-Men wouldn't take Inhuman side
Race traitors, all of them.
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?
This, really.
But they're fine on artists i think, it's mostly writers they're lacking.
>You think they're gonna unfuck themselves
Not likely, but I'm fairly excited for Waid's Avengers. I might even buy some of it.
So, a few noteworthy titles, but mostly bland shit peppered with tweeestz.
Dude, how out of the loop are you?
I have to agree with this. I love classic marvel mostly, early 2000's has its gems too. I'm pretty meh on pre-crisis dc. DC was pretty solid in the 90's and onwards. I've been enjoying dc more than marvel for the last five years or so for the most part. Marvel need more books like vision and ultimates.
This has actually been a pretty decent thread.
Will we ever have a return to long quality runs 30+ issues? The constant new #1's have been a downfall as well. A cheap 90's style gimmick to up short term sales rather than create quality books.
>Will we ever have a return to long quality runs 30+ issues?
No.
I got through event fatigues, but the "No. 1 hahah" really was what stopped me reading regularly.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Please come back Brubaker.
>Is it editorial involvement on the bigger properties preventing writers from having free rein?
Maybe? I don't think it's anyone being "limited". You can see, for instance, Al Ewing being free to do whatever he wants on both New Avengers and, more importantly, Ultimates. And both are decent series.
It seems more like the editors are *only* playing as the middlemen in the operation and not actually putting their personal stamp on these projects. So, in bigger cases, they ARE reining in the writing somewhat but only to the degree that it doesn't collide with editorial mandate; in smaller cases, there's just nothing at all.
In either cases, it's really just a sink or swim with the creative teams, and with Marvel's lineup as is, it's easy to see that most teams would sink.
Editors need to have good taste and they need to guide the series to being good -- they need to be something like a ghostplotter on weaker books or the first test audience of the book on slightly stronger books. They need to guide these books from being crap.
I know people will say, "But less editing is good!" I disagree. On a monthly (or more frequent) series that is marketed on the fact that it'll be released monthly and on time, editing is a must.
Is Matt Fraction still at Marvel?
>12 issues
>half of those are event tie-ins
What a life.
Can he unfuck Spencer's shit?
>I know people will say, "But less editing is good!" I disagree. On a monthly (or more frequent) series that is marketed on the fact that it'll be released monthly and on time, editing is a must.
Bingo.
Don't think so.
It's just complete bullshit. Put the marketing money into just saying ayy big new creative shift, same great X-Men/Avengers etc.
Let a #1 signify a riskier thing and put more adbux into helping it succeed.
When Cable and Hope returned to the present and Marvel just continued to fuck up everything
Gillen's JiM is peak modern Marvel
>Hope
Haha literally who lmao?!
I miss her, bros.
;_;
Writers wise who has left Marvel since 2010-16?
So far we have:
Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
All those people who just signed DC exclusives right before Rebirth like King, Humphries, etc.
He was so underappreciated until Spencer started putting out schlock.
Is Gillen still at Marvel?
Didn't care all that very much for him, but he was far from bad.
girls with scars on their face are sexy
she's probably the most badass forgotten redhead psychic girl
Nope
JiM is Marvel's best modern work
Gillen is now only doing Star Wars stuff but I think he's hinting at taking over a big property, hopefully X-Men or Guardians
Hickman left too. Also Gillen went off to do Star Wars. His secret Wars Siege was essentially a love letter to his marvel work according to him.
I've loved his marvel work since his stint on Journey with Kid Loki. No one should ever doubt his work after reading that.
Gillen's Darth Vader is ending next month.
Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
>Isn't Tom King still on Vision?
I just remember my supreme disgust with his (thankfully few) issues on Secret Avengers.
I actually was diggin his Iron Man 2.0 series, and I think the first 3 maybe 4 issues are really cool. I gave him a pass for the Fear Itself shoehorning, but that was one of the most awful books I've not dropped.
>Hickman left too
I loved Secret Warriors, but haven't finished his Avengers. Did not care for FF for whatever reason.
Like I said, I felt Gillen was fine, just didn't click for me.
Indeed.
Kelly Sue Deconnick (for better or worse)
Marguerite Bennett, as far as I know (again, for better or worse)
Jonathan Hickman
Sam Humphries (and Joshua Williamson and Tom King, for the same reason, signing DC exclusives)
>>Isn't Tom King still on Vision?
His scripts are finished
Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
Jonathan Hickman
Tom King???
Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
Jonathan Hickman
Tom King
Kelly Sue Deconnick
Marguerite Bennett
Joshua Williamson
This list is getting long as fuck
I'd put money on him writing Nova or Guardians sooner than later
Hopefully Angela or maybe Punisher
Shit. When you look at that list it certainly paints a picture. Not all those writers are top talent but even the less polished ones are capable of putting out decent books.
Well then who's the bad egg that shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen anymore?
There's always one example out there of a worst thing made for each of these folks but who has really wronged the world consistently?
Who is left at Marvel that can even write a good book? Off the top of my head the only ones I'll even bother to look at any more are Ellis, Lemire, Waid, and Spencer - all of whom are currently writing some duds at the moment. I hear Ewing is good, too.
I think you need to re-read that post user said that all of those writers are capable of putting out decent books or above.
i think the talent leaving is partially due to editors giving newer talent a shot (but also bad because they are also getting shit talent on pander stuff) and the old guard doing more creator stuff
brubaker and fraction basically told all the stories they wanted to tell and are pretty creative heavy now. fraction has his TV dead and brubaker is doing all his crime stuff
millar is done with the big 2 and does his movie stuff. still does creator stuff under icon which is marvel
whedon is gone. only his x-men was liked, runaways was shit
abnett will be back around gotg2 i think on some side book or one-shot
remender gone. humphries/king are dc exclusive now but fuck humphries lel
KSD doing image shit and tv shit with fraction
hickman just took a break from everything he's coming back now with image stuff and will come back to marvel eventually, he said he still had a few stories left or a property he wanted to work on
It was Bendis
>Ellis
he puts out 6 issues a year there. Remember Moon Knight?
What's it like being a special snowflake that can't handle criticism of things that you haven't even created? Or do you write for Marvel?
>spurrier's legion was amazing
Weavers (Boom) and The Spire (Image) were also really really good. His X-Force on the other hand sucked.
>grayson was absolutely based
I couldn't get past the shitty Poser tracing + Photoshop backgrounds.
>johns is off justice league
As much as I hated Darksied War ... Hitch was terrible on JLA and his Rebirth Issue was balls.
>rucka back on WW
I'm salty that he pulled Nicloa along with him and thus delayed Black Magick though. Also: I loved the Rebirth Issue but the ongoing's first issue was decompressed as fuck.
Then there's Green Lanterns which has to be Dogfucker's best book ... ever.
That part's not in dispute, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but who's worse than the rest? Who should we avoid?
That was 2 hours ago. I think that user left. The thread actually got decent after that.