Where do you stand on "hydraulic fracturing" Sup Forums?
Redpill me.
Apparently the UK has enough shale gas deposits to last us 500 years but the whole thing is controversial due to environmental impact.
Are these just anti progress, tree-hugging SJW greenpeace nutjobs, or is there a genuine cause for concern?
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It's another fantastic invention by the white race that can keep us fed and warm for hundeeds of years. First we have to destroy the lovers of misery and death.
>another fantastic invention by the white race
up there with genocide and theft huh
rlly mks u tink
permanently destroy the environment to challenge Saudi Arabia?
worth.
>inb4 some americuck claims it's harmless
A fantastic thing op, but the anti shale group is probably backed by OPEC nations who feel threatened, think about it, 500 years of oil without having to pay the towheads, cant happen on their watch
Facts?
Energy Security for the future, Fracking has been happening since the 60's in the UK, only now some leftie tree huggin shills protest!
It will great jobs that a desperately needed now.
Nein danke, you antiscience coward fucking German.
its a bullshit scheme to get people to think we arent buying 99% of our natural gas from russia
america and the uk ran out of significant deposits. they have to tear down the fracking rigs almost as fast as they put them up . its trace amounts in the ground.
you know who pays for fracking to even be done? western based natural gas companies that have a joint venture with russian companies to extract methane hydrate from russia . and they got a mountain of that shit
Isn't that what they said with North Sea oil?
this
you can expect protest groups to come into an enourmous amount of money, false scientific "claims" in regards to environmental damage, and media coverage
the leftists are going to blow their own countries legs off
is this true? do you have any source? everywhere i look says the UK has vast reserves of gas, which is why the whole argument has come about.
Do we have much shale here? It would be a good thing with rigs in Bass Strait starting to wind down production.
>america and the uk ran out of significant deposits. they have to tear down the fracking rigs almost as fast as they put them up . its trace amounts in the ground.
Although the UK is a mature feild we still have a large portion to exploit with better recovery and drilling technology. We have extensive land based shale deposits which are not trace amounts. We have the Falklands which has a bonanza of oil but no infrastructure or friendly ports nearby to offload.
Methane Hydrate is still nowhere near natural gas production from Siberia. Japan is looking into this hard on there deep water continental shelves.
THe UK imports most of the gas from Norway at this stage as we sold our gas cheap in the 90's. This is from an user who has worked for 11 years drilling internationally.
I think it's just another good source of energy. It doesn't all have to be used but some of it while we develop environmentally sustainable energy sources.
My problem is that I live near Nimbin, which most ausfags know is the hippy capital of Aus. Full of fucking greenies here that don't stop talking about the shit.
>had a 2 month straight protest about the issue
>got to over 2000 people big
>all they did was smoke pot and play hippy jams
>aus police threatened riot squads
>they fucked off real quick
baka.com.au
for someone in your position and with your experience in the industry, what is your opinion on the environmental dangers of fracking? blown out of proportion, or something to it?
I hate tree huggers but this one is genuinely dangerous. I'm confident it will work in the future once we refine the methods but right now it's an invitation to disaster.
Much cheaper and safer to just genocide the muzzies and turn Saudi Arabia into a refinery.
t. oil/gas industry engineer
>theft
done before write people even existed before the first real civilizations were even built but people stealing from other farms after their crops failed
>genocide
Done by the first civilizations in the Middle East and Africa and by native Americans and Asians
Yeah I guess it does really make me think, about how these while people probably learned shitty things from their brown skin ancestors
You can't fart on a rig without doing a risk assessment and HSE paperwork, its all zipped up. Modern rigs are clean operating with zero discharge to the environment as you would get shut down by the national governing body, used to be DEEC but not sure the current one it's just changed with May in power.
IT can change the water level and cause micro seismic events, but to be honest this is still just guess work as not enough study has gone into it.
Places like Liverpool area are quite seismic in the first place with minor events happens all the time.
Yes the dangers are just people are scared of the unknown, it will be a good resource to develop.
>tfw my best friend's brother works at a fracking place
>tfw none of this is true
What IS the environmental impact?
what chemicals do they actually use to pulverize (fracture) the shale?
there's never any straight answers on this
>has enough shale gas deposits to last us 500 years
>civilization will be gone in less than 50 years
This amuses me terribly.
>(primarily water, containing sand or other proppants suspended with the aid of thickening agents)
its totally harmless shit
They use sand, propane and water mostly. Some incidents where explosions at surface have killed people.
cant do it cause then we wouldnt be buying oil from our friends in isis
Close to zero.
Hydraulic fracking can lead to water being contaminated and can lead to earthquakes. This means fracking can lead to severe climate change.
Competitor firms using attention desperate retards to protest and push for the removal of a competing source of energy
Then how do you explain the countless cases where fracking led to nearby water sources being contaminated?
Contaminated with what?
>one off
Im considering suicide
fracking extracts oil that is scattered throughout the ground - there is no one large pool of oil or gas. Because of this, many wells have to be constructed, and they do the horizontal drilling like you see in the picture, so at least one well covers a larger area.
the dangers are contamination of groundwater, since you punch through the groundwater and are in contact with loosened oil/gas further down. sometimes things go terribly wrong and you instantly get exposure with the gas on the surface waters/lawns because the ground was already fragile and the high pressure gave it the rest.
Most materials also have a time range where they are robust and then they degrade. Once that happens the pipe collapses and water can sink down, mix with the gas/oil. But before that happens, abandoned wells can simply leak the gas through them which results in methane gases being released. Many wells are not properly filled up because that's another cost.
Crude oil
The geological effects are less than harmless.
Now I'd sure love to have some cheap never ending oil/gas but today's technology is not good enough to perform the extraction while mitigating the after effects.
Ignore this fucker , climate change is bullshit and fracking has no atmospheric effects anyway. But the geological effects are dangerous. With today's technology. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
kek, what nearby water sources? unless it's next to a major source of potable water then it shouldn't be a concern
I'm for anything that helps get us off of sand nigger oil.
However, I live in Oklahoma, I'm 35 and had never experienced an earthquake until fracking started about ten years ago. Since then we now have more earthquakes than most states.
Make of this information what you will.
> earthquakes
Conspiracy crap. It's been suggested, but without any hard evidence. /x/-tier speculation.
>contaminated water supplies
This can happen. It should be noted that in shale rich areas, it can happen naturally without intervention from man.
I must add - fracking has no atmospheric effects when it's done right. If you just take the oil/gas and leave without covering the wells then yeah, of course you'll have leaks.
How bad are the earthquakes, out of curiosity? I'm a west coast fag and most earthquakes are nothing.
Honestly not going to even try to argue with you.
You have brainwashed yourself so much.
That you think that fracking is a good idea.
IMHO Oil as an energy source is a scheme and nuclear energy is the way to go.
It wouldn't be a concern in the short term but in the long term however.
I eat tacos and have no cancer, therefor tacos prevent cancer.
Make of this information what you will.
Global warming will kill us all anyway, we might as well enjoy cheap gas and things before we die
1. fuck the environment, we'll find a way to live without it
2. fuck non-humans
3. fuck saudi arabia
keep being a cuck
Nothing I've seen is bad. The worst was it knocked over someone's chimney. People make jokes about them, post pictures of fallen lawn furniture etc.
Regardless, we used to not have earthquakes, now we do.
fracking wouldn't be necessary if we all used electric vehicles. Hell, electric vehicles are more convenient anyway. You just charge them at home overnight.
inb4 cross country trips. That's what RV's and planes are for.
As far as fracking is concerned, people complain about water tasting and smelling like oil. Well that makes sense. Clearly the pressurized water is introduced in the basin runoff and the ground doesn't filter the smallest particulate matter just as it doesn't with phosphate in fertilizers we use for crops. It all gets into the rivers and lakes. It's the same water we treat and use as drinking water.
I think we should just gain our independence by being the pioneers of a mostly electric vehicle transportation country.
It's just, the irony of it all is that most electric vehicles will get their energy from plants that burn fossil fuels.
Global warming is a severe issue. We can slow down global warming. And eventually the earth will heal. It is not an eventual ticking time bomb. But instead a fire that can be stopped, but only if you stop chucking in wood.
It poisons any underground aquifers used primarily for agricultural irrigation.
So crops die/become poisonous to humans, the soil then becomes unusable for future crops etc.
Until we learn how to extract it less detrimentally its a pretty destructive practice for short term gain. Australia has enough coal to supply every coal powerplant on Earth longer than 500 years
...
There is genuine cause for concern.
The ecological impact is nothing that cannot be reasonably managed, but the problem is we all know neither government nor corporations can manage shit.
We don't know what's causing global warming. I think we should think twice before taking drastic measures against global warming before we pinpoint the cause. We could send the planet into an ice age via a positive feedback loop from some dumb shit we tried to do.
What we do know is that Earth is resilient, and for as much shit that happens in it, it has strong equilibriumatic forces.
Who can manage?
Not true, in fact the United states and Canada are exporting due to how much natural gas we produce. Oil sands, marcellus shale formation, piceance shale formation are two of the largest gas deposits in the world that we know of. What brings down better means of extraction is supports for the industry bog down research and exploration into different methods of extraction. Currently fracking is the most efficient, but they are developing extraction through electrical current that produces 75 percent less waste. Frqcking is essentially harmless if companies dispose of post Frqcking fluids correctly. They cannot do that due to governments and environmentalists who want to be warm in their house in the winter blocking access to disposal wells and water treatment plants.
Of course I agree. What I am advocating against is the apparent immediate shift towards fracking. Even though we do not understand the long term consequences of fracking.
>Company fracks the area where I visit for work (Odessa)
>Water tastes like methane, propane, and ass
>Company is based out of Abilene
>Another significant 'hot spot' for natural gas
>Doesn't frack due to fears of water contamination
Hmmmm
The thing that pisses me off about the "anti-frackers" is that they're the same people who don't want coal or nuclear power.
Well, how else are we suppose to keep the fucking lights on.
I welcome fracking 110% to add to the Brexit boom!
Besides, it will take AT LEAST a decade or maybe two, to see ANY environmental impacts and only then can we act accordingly.
there are strong indications that the increase in greenhouse gases drives global warming. it can be shown in models how that works and satellites receive less heat reflecting from the earth in the wavelengths that CO-2 absorbs.
Burning of fossil fuels releases greenhouse gases that were previously stored in the ground.
Did the water have a weird discoloration.
And do you know the filtration methods in your district?
Liquid nitrogen, bore gels which are essentially a silicate used to lubricate the line during Frqcking and drilling, caustic soda which helps contain excess fluids from escaping and helps reinforce structural integrity of the hole during frack, sand of very carefully selected grit formulation depending on depth and type of rock you are splitting open, explosives used to fracture the rock under high pressure water and sand mix. What comes out is parrafin, oil not crude oil mind you, sand, water benzene which is a by product of the unrefined gas itself due to condensation from compression, h2s which is only found in some wells across thee country.
Honestly? Corporations could, if they felt like making a proper effort. I'm just jaded on corps doing anything properly that doesn't gain them shekels.
I don't know a single thing about it but we're a pretty small island. Doing over here i doubt would make a gigantic catastrophic impact.
>literal earthquake machine
Yeah, fracking is bogus.
Not strong.. indications that it is possible greenhouse gases are to blame. CO2 reflects a fraction of what hydrochlorocarbons reflect back into the ground. We're learning more and more about how the greenhouse gases work. However, they are not the root cause, volcanoes, forest fires, traffic, and power plants would be the root cause; if global warming is occurring based on greenhouse gases. One of the most powerful greenhouse gases is water vapor. But water vapor also reflect sun rays back into space. So just to give you an idea of the complexity, what would happen if we had double the cloud cover? What would cause double the cloud cover? Global warming? So it seems like Earth would fix itself because the water vapor warms the earth, causing more water vapor, but as earth is warming, it takes on no more extra heat from the sun, causing less water vapor.
I think too many scientists are jumping to conclusions and have to think more carefully about this.
Water tower treatment and filtration like most of Texas.
Gas is clear but practically carbonated, smells distinctly of gas and propane.
Be mindful Odessa's water quality was considered the best in west Texas before fracking was approved.
Literally everyone out here drinks bottled water. It's kind of astounding how many pro-fracking shills or ignoramus's there are in the thread.
Maybe I guess individuals and proprietorship
That really sucks because I think bottled water is extremely damaging for the environment.
Have you tried talking about it to the local government?
This is Texas.
Energy companies ARE the government.
Odessa is oil country, it's expected to be a ghost town in 20 years. Hence why fracking companies don't give a shit.
People should use Odessa as a model.
Thats a shame.
Well on the bright side at least odessa will be a monument to show the dark side of fracking.
Worked in the oil and gas industry. Every time we felt with fracking someone was complaining about how their tap water is now flammable. Whole towns are being affected by this and I pity them. Imagine taking a shower only to have your eyes start burning and potentially become blind. Happened to a coworker who was at a hotel very close to the fracking site.
>go to site of fracking
>set a long detonation wire
>blow shit up
I'm an engineer that worked with methane drainage on coal seams in Australia. We mostly did horizontal drilling but from vertical drilling from time to time. Basically, you get contaminants from the seam leaking into aquifers and it poisons the water and worse case scenario the land is no longer arable. It's a real risk and we cased the holes after we drilled them to minimise leakage. They don't do this in a lot of the USA because it adds costs. But even then, sometimes the casing fails or isn't installed correctly and you just can't guarantee it'll be safe. Hydraulic facturing adds far more risk on top of that, which we rarely did because the permeability of coal is generally good enough not to need it. fracking is normally reserved for shale. But fracking is a lot more risky in my opinion it should be banned until we can see how things turn out in the States and we can do a Federal investigation into environmental risks. We have excellent farm land in Australia, no need to risk it
Fracking is 100% safe according to the EPA you subhuman shitskin
Stop commenting on something you have no clue about you inbred sandnigger monkey
I'm an engineer that's actually worked in fracking and I can tell you it's not. Even drilling into the seam without it with casing is not 100% safe. It can be done safely but you have to account for things like human error and negligence. Just wait and see what happens in the States in the next 20 years, maybe the concern is overblown and affected areas are minimal but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a catastrophe either
>that's actually worked in fracking
Lol no you are not how many wells have been fracked in Australicuckistan?
>with casing is not 100% safe
That's true of conventional drilling. What this study says is that fracking isn't systematically inherently dangerous to the water supply. The same dangers that apply to regular drilling apply to fracking obviously
>Just wait and see what happens in the States in the next 20 years
Nice try shill there have been tens of thousands of frack jobs in the US over the past 10 years with no observable contamination
>maybe the concern is overblown
Yes it is look at the scientific government study I posted shill. Stop making stuff up
Fracking is bad plz buy russian gas instead ok thx.
This is a video from the district I worked in
youtube.com
Although it's not near our lease, it's from another drilling contractor. We had drillers come over from their project telling us they were aware of this bullshit happening. Everyone knows about it. There are far more cases of this in the USA where drinking water of towns are contaminated.
Fracking alone might not contaminate the water source but here's where you need to use your fucking head. The water aquifer and the gas reservoir are connected by a fucking 12 inch diameter hole drilled between both stratas. If the hole isn't cased correctly (in the States they often don't case the holes at all) then you have now provided a stream for the gas reservoir to enter the water aquifer.
Anyways, the video alone kills any notion it isn't possible
>I worked in
No you did not. You are a neckbeard NEET. I bet you rarely leave your mom's basement
>There are far more cases of this in the USA where drinking water of towns are contaminated.
EPA study nigger an official government study found no evidence of systematic water pollution caused by fracking. I wonder who is more reputable some retard from australicuckistan or scientists
>If the hole isn't cased correctly
That's not a problem that can be attributed to fracking you subhuman mongoloid. This can happen in conventional drilling too if it's not done properly. There are already rules and regulations governing that.
>the video alone kills any notion it isn't possible
Nobody said it is not possible you subhuman double digit IQ cretin. The EPA study says that fraking does not cause systematic water pollution i.e. the process is not inherently dangerous or harmful to the environment
>Watch Greens MP...
No kill yourself shill this publicity stunt by some envirowhacko has no scientific merit and proves nothing. What's next are you going to post that (((Hollywood))) "documentary"?
Fracking under residential areas and high population areas cannot work. It's not safe if you pump high pressure water underneath the rocks when you have heavy buildings above.
It can cause voids in the foundation, causing landslides and erosion that would be uncontrollable. It can also cause major sink holes.
I don't support or approve fracking in residential areas.
>theguardian.com
I don't know why I bother. Please actually read the report. The EPA didn't say it's safe, it even listed cases of contamination from fracking. It concluded that contamination isn't widespread or 'systemic' from fracking. Which I never said it was.
Pay debts
>Which I never said it was
But you did. You even said that failing to case the drill hole properly has something to do with fracking. We are talking about fracking here not drilling in general.
>that contamination isn't widespread or 'systemic' from fracking
aka fracking safe if done properly like almost every single human activity. So to sum things up not only you failed to prove that fracking is inherently dangerous (something that would justify restrictions and more regulations) but you also made a fool out of yourself by pretending to be an expert and an industry insider. Fail what a joke you are didn't expect much better from an inbred kangaroo fucker
above it you moran
pay debnts
I said fracking increases the risk on top of the other risks which it absolutely does. Even your EPA report mentions examples of contamination, it just concluded it's not a widespread and systemic problem. I stand by my belief that it should be banned for awhile until we see what happens in the US over the next several years if not longer. Those cased wells also have to stand the test of time. They aren't grouted or anything, they just get a lid bolted on the top and left as they are. We just haven't had the time to see what happens.
>fracking safe if done properly
Again, it comes down to risk management. Human error and negligence will always be part of it. I don't count myself an expert I worked with these wells for 3 years. I count myself an industry insider because I spent those three years with drillers and all levels of management. Everyone is aware of the problems. Regardless of my experience, you're sitting there telling me it's ok to do and misreading an EPA report.
If environmentalism wasn't took over by socialism the world would be a better place
holy shit
eco-terrorism seems more sympathic every day
It fucked up Pennsylvania. The northern waterways have become polluted and many springs and wells are no longer potable.
Light pollution and noise pollution are also an issue and in some places you can't see the stars because of the lights from the machinery, despite being in the middle of nowhere.
And the people. The people in the towns saw a small boom at the start when all of the workers came in. But then the workers were in town and had a lot more spending money than the locals, and you have to remember that a lot of these communities are dirt poor. The workers end up inadvertently raising the standard of living of the area such that the locals can't afford basic goods and services anymore.
Poverty deepened and then in some of these communities the gas companies up and left once their work was done, sending everything crashing back down to what it used to be except the locals now have even less. They barely own the land under their feet and they absolutely do not own the gas under their feet. They got a one-time payout of five grand and that windfall is three years gone by this point.
It's fucking shit. I've seen it with my own eyes. The technology is neat and we can use it as a last resort if we must. But we aren't there yet.