Strange vs. Constantine

I'm curious, especially seeing as how I know basically nothing about Dr. Strange.

How would this go down? I genuinely don't know. And I'm talking about the original, "I tricked the devil into drinking holy water" John Constantine.

Constantine gets by on sheer bloody luck and by being a complete bastard. Strange way outclasses him.

one is sorcerer supreme
other is Human and neo, once
Its not hard

Constantine would require some fairly contrived bullshit to beat Strange. Granted, Constantine runs on contrived bullshit at times.

Constantine would get BTFO. Dr. Strange is comparable to Dr. Fate.

Constantine would be fucked beyond all levels of fucked.

This sounds like batman vs superman

Batman gets his shit kicked in on the first go but learns a few tricks that would help him win on the 2nd round

...

...

He really is the Indidana Jones/Han Solo of magic with less compassion.

what's with this match coming up so often lately? Constantine isn't a spell slinger, he tricks people and cons them.

If you want a proper pairing do Dr Strange and Dr Fate. Even then Dr Strange wins, the only one who DC has that would beat Strange is Timothy Hunter

Because he's one of the most capable mages in the DC Universe. He gets by on tricks and confidence scams, but that's only because he has a disdain for power, regardless of its source. He's stood toe to toe with much flashier magicians and every time, he's walked away just fine, because he doesn't buy into the shit that they're selling.

Is literally everything I need to know aobut constantine in Hellblazer, or is there more to look into?

Really all I know about him is from Books of Magic and a couple Zatanna storytimes. And that he happens to be a cunt.

Is he powerful at all or not?

Strange wins any fight but Constantine gets the last laugh
Still from what little strange i have read he can get crafty at times but not really in the same way as john.

Literally everything you need to know about Constantine is in Hellblazer. He's incredibly powerful, but because of his disdain for power and the people that wield it, he never really utilizes it.

Alright, cool

Hellblazer is done, correct? Are there many versions? I know it got the Rebirth treatment, but if it got New52'd and pre/pos crisis shit goes deep

He is more powerful then most by shear virtue of expirence but compared to any auctual major character he is pretty much an ant.

But yes read hellblazer avoid his nu52 like the plague his dcyou ended really nicely and his rebirth is shapping up to be either really good or really bad

The issue that made me fan

Well i suppose an ant is underselling things he has pulled off a few major spells.

Combat wise he is pretty much nothing though

Hellblazer is done, yes. Got all the way to 300 issues and is the longest running series that Vertigo has ever published.

John Constantine: Hellblazer was REALLY solid, and ran from last June to this June. Strongly recommended, but not as strongly recommended as Hellblazer itself. The new run that just started could go either way.

>The new run that just started could go either way.
Yeah that was a wierd one it was really promising for most of the issue and then it went to shit in the last 2 pages.

>Because he's one of the most capable mages in the DC Universe
he is capable when you compare him to street mages, that's it. He doesn't use magic a ton because he knows of the costs

have you been reading too much 52 Constantine? Cause that ain't his character

Yeah, it's combat where he really falls apart. He can take a punch, but he can't deal one for crap.

This is at least the third time we've had this thread.
Best answer stands as "Strange wins, but later realizes his wallet is missing".
Brace yourself for Salty McShitpost btw

dr strange is the sorcerer supreme, he's the most knowledgable/powerful wizard in all of the marvel universe (well the 616)

constantine is a tricky cock, but he's just a tricky cock

such a bullshit ending

I have been, but I know that a lot of it doesn't fall in line with his established character. I'm going off of how often he's used magic to outsmart and outmaneuver his opponents in Hellblazer, along with Jaime Delano and Andy Diggle's runs on the book, where it was flat out stated that he's incredibly powerful in comparison to all magic users.

>he knows of the costs

What ARE the costs though? I hear literally every magic welding character say something yet it's never explained

If it's just "you attract weird shit"/"your loved ones are endangered" bullshit it doesn't count, they live in comic books

I can tolerate the adressing the reader because apparently omniscient narators are the devil but the way he got the name was retarded.

Not exactly the first time he's directly addressed the audience, though. In the 200th issue, he basically talks about the various people who have written him with the audience, ending with him raising a glass to toast Alan Moore.

>If it's just "you attract weird shit"/"your loved ones are endangered" bullshit it doesn't count, they live in comic books
thats it
the cost is in plot/drama

>incredibly powerful
>any cunt could do it

Any cunt can throw a punch

Mike Tyson, though, punches very very well.

plot devices

anyone can do magic
just like anyone can shoot a gun, or cut someone open with a scalpel
but not everyone can be an expert quickdraw and marksman, or a skilled surgeon

constantine is much more skilled than your average wizard but he still doesn't match up to stephen strange (who is the greatest wizard, just like iron man is the greatest engineer and hulk is the strongest)

Constantine's best crossover fight would actually be Dr. Who. But he's Sup Forums, so eh.

Eh it can be hard to tell sometimes
I am only up to about issue 110 but from what i have read so far you have to look at a few things.
>The average level of the spells he casts
Mostly slightly above average divination (although he does seem to excell at travesing various magical realms)
>his in universe reputation
even new mages know of him but most of that is probably people overselling him.
>his greatest feats
Its flat out stated that nobody that knew him well thought he was powerful enough to pull off splitting his soul

Strange Wins but some how Constantine escapes, and Strange later finds out his Wallet's gone.

Dr. Fate is a more appropriate fight for Dr. Strange.

Which is why they were merged in the Amalgam universe.

Constantine would be more of a match for solely sorcerous Dr. Doom (I realize this seems like a big thing but we're talking no technology beyond a lighter, no soldiers, etc).

One thing i liked from his shitty new52 run was he lost the ability to taste cigarettes.
But yeah its mostly that it always fucks you over john just shifts all the suffering and death onto others

Eh it wasent so much that that bothered me as how he got the name

Yeah, crafty Strange usually entails trickery with illusions and teleporting. On the other hand he has the Eye of Agamotto, which is basically the ultimate lie detector, illusion dispeller and mystery solved all in one. That would be a problem for Constantine.

>Doctor Doom vs. Constantine

Are we talking before he went back in time to learn everything there is to know about Magic and got back to present time by waiting DOOM or the later, and didn't Doom punch a fucking Lion to death? I feel this is very ones sided bot Constantine.

This is the correct answer.

Constantine knows all the tricks, or enough of them, to go against sorcerer Doom. He's got the will and the cunning.

>Will and Cunning

How will this save him from a Lion killing Punch to the face?

>Best answer stands as "Strange wins, but later realizes his wallet is missing".
Wasn't that what Mike Carey said when asked how Lucifer and Constantine would deal against one another? Lucifer would clearly triumph in planning, power, and getting what he wanted, but afterward he'd suddenly realise that John stole his wallet.

The real question is
>Swamp Thing vs Strange

Because John can't fight for shit and always gets someone else to do that for him. Usually Swampy.

While those two slug it out in the park, John's popped into Strange's flat, slipped roofies into Wong's tea, and knicked everything he could

>What ARE the costs though?

Detrimental to your health with over-use, but it depends on the mage. Zatanna has immense power that crosses into a grey area between magic and straight reality warping, but I remember a series that showed her overextending her powers and starting to hemorrhage internally and almost literally explode her vocal chords.

All magic has its price, sooner or later.

I dont have any idea who you are talking about but yeah with strange the wallet thing is a metaphor for getting the last laugh but when it comes down to it somebody that can beat john at his own game will literally get pickpocketed.

What ever happened to the soul of Original Constantine?

I want them to let me write a story about him fucking over Nu5-2 John and stealing his life.

Delano's run, for the most part, always dealt with Constantine getting fucked over by using magic only to use again to get out of the situation at the price of getting fucked over again. It's really a hellish cycle.

Where do I start with Strange? I like the whole oriental mysticism aesthetic, but I get overwhelmed with all the releases.

John is mostly a fake and a con man. (at least in hellblazer)

If you want to keep things simple, start with the trades/graphic novels. The Oath's a good introductory story.

>Swamp Thing vs Strange
>tmw Strange summons Man Thing to his side for assistance
My body ready.

Wouldnt a better matchup be Dr Strange vs The Specter? John is severely outclassed here, so the first fight is definitely in Stranges favor. Of course you could argue that John would cheat like a motherfucker in the rematch

Spectre is way above Strange's class. Fate is the even matchup.

Constantine could only win if he called in some favors with some heavyweight demons that don't hate him or something...wait, I think he's the single most despised man by both Heaven and hell.

Specter could probably take on the Beyonder, he's literally an aspect of God.

Ennis' run went to shit after the king of vampires (only good issue after that was John's 40 birthday). Who are the worthwile authors for Hellblazer?

Thanks!

Shouldn't it be Constantine vs Daimon Hellstrom, or maybe agent of Asgard Loki?

Ther is literally no way to defeat the Spectre. If it's bound to a human host, then you appeal to their mercy and fucking pray you get lucky. If it's unbound then you are just straight-up fucked.

Well I just assumed since Strange has fought godlike beings before, but then again you're probably right. So what about Specter vs Dr Manhattan?

Spectre vs Shuma

Constantine uses misdirection and itty bitty bits of easy magic
Strange is the fucking Wal-Mart of Magic

Now THAT'S a fight.

maybe, maybe not. Shuma is practically a universe in himself, though even that is simplifying it, but the Spectre is an aspect of God and as such would have little issue sundering universes if it came to that.
You could even argue that he'd be even easier for the Spectre to fight because as the utterly inhuman monster that Shuma is he has absolutely no way to bring the Spectre's few fetters against him.

In Dr Strange's case as sorcerer supreme, the cost is essentially giving up a normal life and putting his entire dimension on his shoulders as it's protector from all dark mystic forces. On call 24/7.

Is DC god multiversal or not?

Yeah, his job has basically destroyed all semblance of a normal life for him, and he's lost a lot of his most basic ties to humanity.

Even "just" angels exist above and beyond the entire multiverse, and DC God from what I can tell is the true Christian God.

>"Dr Strangefate"
>Is actually Charles Xavier

Yeah. Some of the magic that he uses in Hellblazer is pretty spectacular. Between animating a Nazi Golem to splitting his soul to channeling all of the evil into a baby (that he then dropped off a cliff) to literally snorting Santa Clause's bone meal to absorb his power, John's magic is not something to fuck with or underestimate.

>Dr. Fate is a more appropriate fight for Dr. Strange.
No, Dr. Fate is way more powerful than Dr. Strange. Strange is a sorcerer, Fate is a god. They weren't fused together in the Amalgam universe because they're an even match, it's because they both have Dr. in their name.

>Fate is a god

No he is most definitely not. Never has been. Kent Nelson was a ridiculously powerful wizard in part because of his use of the Helm of Nabu, partly becsuse of his role as an agent of the Lords of Order, and partly because of his own knowledge and skill gained through experience. But he's not anywhere close to god-tier power levels, and I don't think any other person to hold the mantle of Fate has surpassed him on that scale either.

And it looks like he's slowly going mad in the current run.

What are you talking about? Kent isn't Fate. He's the vessel Fate uses, Nabu is Fate. Nabu is a Lord of Order, making him not only a god, but one of the more powerful ones (more powerful than Zeus anyway)

I wouldn't doubt it. Magic in the DCU is a bitch.

Constantine actually does magic.

Strange does advanced technology.

This is not hard,

Nabu generally can't do shit outside of the helmet though,

It's almost like a cancer in the DCU. Look at Felix Faust, for Christ's sakes. He looks like a magic using Keith Richards.

Only when someone isn't wearing the helmet.

And when someone IS wearing the helmet, we're right back to my original argument here

To be fair, Faust is also an idiot who keeps making poor deals with powers that are way out of his league.

A Lord of Order is fucking ridiculously more powerful than some random surgeon that learned magic one day. Strange will never be on Fate's level. That's not even a DC/Marvel power disparity thing either, that's a Ultimate Multiversal Cosmic Being/human power disparity.

Wrong. Fate is Nabu's champion. His avatar if you will, and is only as strong as the host can be.
Fate is as much Nabu as Strange is Agamotto.

Ok, I don't know what run you've been reading (new52, rebirth, whatever), but that's not how Fate usually works.

Normally, Kent (or whoever) puts on the helmet and becomes Dr. Fate. Nabu is Fate. Like he's "possesses" Kent's body and controls him. And he's really really power, he's a god after all. He just can't affect the materiel world without a host. Like, if you're having a conversation with Dr. Fate, you're actually talking to Nabu not Kent.

Nobody is arguing that, but Fate isn't a Lord of Order. Nabu is. Two different, if related, characters.

And the Vishani could trounce Nabu. Thrre versus one, with Nabu being hindered by Chaosfr the lulz, Nabu loses big time.

See

Shuma killed Death. I think that's above even the Spectre, or at least enough to make it an even fight. Don't forget that Shuma can't truly be killed and if he is whoever killed him becomes him.

So, I guess the better comparison is all the friends that John's had who've either gone mad, been killed in a grisly manner or have rotted out from the inside due to magic.

There was Lester who was basically a magic junky, his technomage friend who was absorbed into the Internet and the friend he saved from the devil. Or the other magician who was turned into a rabbit.

Strange isn't "some random surgeon that learned magic," he's the Sorcerer Supreme. It's his job to keep reality from breaking.

>Anything vs The Const
HAHAHHAAHHAHAHHA

Plus magic in Marvel takes forever to truly learn. Instead, you just invoke the name of powerful deities that let you cast the spells through them. It's why early Strange invoked Dormammu, until he learned what that guy is about.

Pretty much, or Zatanna's life story in general.

What happened with her, aside from her dad dying to save the multiverse, having his soul damned to hell and then nullified to protect her from Lobo?

So how does Shuma fight, anyway? Does he just sort of smack things with his tentacles?

Magic