>mfw explaining for the 5th time today China's ""capitalism"" is PART OF its communism
It's not hard, people. Marx wrote about it, Lenin did it, it's simple. Orthodox. Communism is a stage of political economy you can't pull off without going through capitalism. So if your people stage a communist revolution before they're done banging rocks together you end up with a communist politburo managing a capitalist economy until the country is rich enough. Deng was a committed marxist who framed his reforms in these terms even as he did them. Xi is beginning to turn the ship around again now that China unironically numbah wan
You might be right, but we're so far off from the conditions where that's supposed to start happening it's hard to speculate. It's not like it's expected to wither just because the government are bored with being in charge, it's supposed to slowly become redundant as the material wealth of the people improves and the danger of being recolonized shrinks.
Adrian Butler
>implying asian social organization has anything to do with some Jew's magic cult book
Levi Collins
the proper term is 'command economy'. china is neither capitalist nor communist, but rather fascist
Lincoln Wright
kek china communism >no public healthcare (staple of communism) >no worker's rights (you're free to exploit chinese workforce as long as you support the government) >no right to strike (or you get driven over by a tank)
Jonathan Nelson
No. Communism is not just the name of the state of affairs to be established, it is the name of the movement to do it. China is a command economy and they are BOTH capitalist and communist, because they are acting based on rational plans to bring about communism.
>dumb guy shows up
Noah Hill
>i-it wasn't real communism! ur dum AF
Hunter Rivera
Did you read nothing I wrote? And also no theory ever?
They are a brutal capitalist economy, yes. They are also communists. Not only did I explain this paradox in my post but it has happened before. You've never heard of Lenin's NEP?
Kayden Barnes
What are you talking about? That's literally unrelated to my posts
Lucas Myers
>implying they're ever move on to socialism
Sebastian Collins
>china is communist precisely because it employs the worst of capitalism nice mental gymanstics there
Luis Nguyen
double post because I just realized I'm not through with you
I just explicitly said they are communist. Then I argued why. What are you even talking about? Are you illiterate?
Eli Butler
Good. I wanted a USSR 2.0. This country has gone soft.
Ryan Perry
I explained precisely how it works and cited both historical and theoretical precedent. I ask you again- please answer this time- have you never heard of the NEP?
They're 'socialist' already, the state controls basically all industry and distributes profits socially. Socialism and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive the way communism and capitalism are. The question is whether they move on to realized communism.
Marxism does not work. Socialism does not work. Communism does not work.
Luis Butler
You poor cuck. Somebody did this to you.
Logan Martinez
Absolutely right my fellow pede. Don't forget to oppose your local union!
Dominic Adams
Indeed, unions are merely rent seekers.
Julian Martinez
The local union probably makes it far harder for young inexperienced workers to get hired, and hurts the industry in the long term. But you just keep going with teenage girl tier sarcasm instead of actual thinking.
Joshua Gutierrez
They have such a large army I wish they held mass rallies and parades like the Nazis and soviets did.
Jaxon Nguyen
My dude why do you not know the history of how we got the 40 hour workweek and safety equipment? Where do you think ANY of the workers' protections we have (or had...) came from?
Inshallah soon I won't be restricted to wasting my breath on cases like this, I can just give bullet instead
>internet tough guy Absolute state of underage autists from leftypol.
Benjamin Ross
I honestly don`t care about the ideology anymore. That kind of idealism used to matter to me at some point, but why don`t you just join the reformist wing of the left(social democrats)? They can gurantee more stability,job safety and better working conditions much easier.
[spoiler]all I want honestly is a wife, perhaps I can find potential candidate form SDP youth wing[/spoiler]
Matthew Perez
Yeah, a wife that's been stretched out by niggers probably. Good luck.
Elijah Wood
lmao I thought we were doing serious discussions now. argue with my logic mr shapiro
Chase Gomez
oh lmao I get it you're Sup Forums
Kayden Harris
What is it with your anti-sex attitude? From my personal xp with the leftist youth organization generally the girls are either uber-sluts or autistic qts to be bullied(usually the later). I doubt that the SDP will be much different expect there are bit more males.
Kevin Anderson
>argue with my logic mr shapiro I don't think I'd bother with you, either.
Thomas Williams
>Inshallah soon I won't be restricted to wasting my breath on cases like this, I can just give bullet instead
The edge, it hurts
Kayden Allen
>cringy internet tough guy >but muh arguments You're such a fucking pathetic autist holy shit. What in the world makes you think it wouldn't turn out awfully sorry for you? The right has all the weapons and all the testosterone, even your guy (((chomsky))) admits this. Adding to this, niggers and spics literally hate the fucking guts of white leftists and want them to die. youtube.com/watch?v=3i6J2fcrKi8 I'm not wrong, if he goes looking for a woman amongst people that are anti-white (implicitly or explicitly), embrace female sexual liberation and love niggers it must be what he wants. Finns even have special parties for white women to get with black men (poorly disguised or not).
Ian Brooks
>anti-sex attitude Fucking hell. White male leftists just keep revealing themselves as more and more innately pathetic.
Isaiah Morgan
>stretched out by niggers
Nathan Turner
Pointing out the obvious + normal standards of decency isn't being obsessed.
Grayson White
A couple of decades ago, China made a lot of money by turning itself into the manufacturer of the world. That developed a growing middle class which is the reason the Chinese market is so important right now.
China is a really crowded place, and now a good chunk of those people have the means to buy stuff. Western companies are aware of this, so they put up with restrictive regulations they wouldn't usually abide by, just for the chance of getting their products in the sweet, sweet Chinese market.
So... the current socialist regime is furthering its marxist ideals by... expanding the bourgeoisie?
Alexander Cook
>I have never put my penis inside an immigrant pussy
Absolute state of the cuckold in the right-wingers.
Lincoln Stewart
Don't you mean >I have never put my penis inside an immigrant used pussy ? In which case, no I haven't.
Ryder Butler
I've seen them and they are nice but not on the scale of soviet parades or nazi rallies.
Jack Hernandez
kek, I bet you have never put your benis in bagina.
Robert Carter
>So... the current socialist regime is furthering its marxist ideals by... expanding the bourgeoisie?
Literally, yes. Duh. Why do you think marx said communism was only possible for fully developed capitalist states?
You don't seem to have any idea what communism is. Like no meme, 0%
Henry Wood
Why won't you talk about the unions tho? Are you wrong?
Nathaniel Green
Because those were the only ones with a proletariat class that could kick off the revolution. Unless we count Kampuchea, but nobody would want to end up like them.
I don't get how bolstering the class you're trying to overthrow would be of any help.
Christian Wilson
The proletariat are the revolutionary class, but the revolution only makes sense (and is only likely to happen, or so marx thought at the time) in a society with a well-developed capitalist economy. The working class are the ones to do it, but there's no means or motive if there isn't a strong bourgeoisie. A bourgeois state is one of the necessary preconditions for communism unless you're content banging rocks together and calling it communism.
Bolstering the bourgies is a side-effect of developing a capitalist economy. It can't be helped. In Marx's conception that wasn't supposed to be happening AFTER the revolution, but as it turns out people consistently have communist revolutions like a full generation early at least.
Lincoln Hall
Do you have a degree in this field? I can't fathom how someone can jump through so many mental hoops to explain something so simple. How does Marxist-leninst theory explain Japan and South Korea, who are both swerving towards a post-capitalism of massive social apathy and withdrawal rather than proletarian revolution? What reason is there to believe China isn't just a developmentally delayed Japan due to previous geopolitical factors, and will be incoherently whacking off to their dakis like everyone else in 70 years?
Aaron Young
He asked a specific question there is a specific answer to, what hoops do you mean? I'm explaining everything people ask but when I get these empty attacks there's no way for me to help you.
Both Japan and South Korea had communist movements which were put down violently. Marx never said- nobody ever said- that communist revolutions just hit BAM as soon as you're at a certain stage of capitalism. The point is just that a certain amount of development is a necessary minimum. In addition to violent repression japan and ROK have welfare systems, (which were invented as a compromise to stave off revolutions) they tie the proles' wellbeing more closely to the bourgies, or they are supposed to.
>What reason is there to believe China isn't just a developmentally delayed Japan due to previous geopolitical factors, and will be incoherently whacking off to their dakis like everyone else in 70 years?
Japan never tried or claimed to be communist, whereas everything the chinese government has done since the 40s has been justified in terms of marxism? I'm not saying they'll definitely never backslide, but that's a pretty good reason to believe they're doing different things, they both tell you in strong terms about their very different goals.
Ethan Bailey
Essentially, yes. At this point it's all in their intentions.
Funny how the same people who correctly predicted 83 out of the last 0 marxist plots have such a hard time believing the Chinese Communist Party were secretly communists all along.
Ryder Butler
Is there an easy way for me to larp as a communist but actually just use the money on my own enjoyment?
Jordan Howard
Of course, start a podcast.
I think you're not drawing an appropriate distinction between the chinese politburo and the chinese bourgeoisie. They're not one and the same like in a liberal state, a communist party's claim to legitimacy comes from their opposition to the power of the bourgies- this does not mean elimination any more than a bourgeois state means elimination of the proles.
The idea of 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is that a liberal state's democracy is illusory outside a narrow scope of capitalist interests, and a transitional government must flip the tables- manage the state (whatever that means at this stage of development) in the interests of the proles. That doesn't necessarily mean "expropriate all wealth immediately" if you're still holding onto capitalism to amass more means of production. (Predictably that makes porkies stop investing)
Jace Fisher
So whether Jack Ma himself is a communist or not isn't the point
Josiah Phillips
Okay that's cool but how can I BECOME a porky. They get all the cool shit in life.
Blake Jones
I dunno, deliver weed by drone. Why ask me?
Chase Wood
You seemed smart enough to ask
Benjamin Bailey
Oh, sorry. I thought you were memeing.
In that case honestly your hopes are slim if you're not rich to begin with. Come to think of it delivering weed by drone might make okay money though. Not porky-tier money probably, unless you can scam someone into investing or buying you out (quickly before the legal weed bubble bursts)
Colton Moore
How can I begin to think like a porky and adapt their lifestyle? I keep reading about ways people got rich with dumb ideas and I keep asking myself "Why couldn't I do that?".
These days people get rich off the dumbest shit. I think it's just trying numerous things until one clicks. Thoughts?
Joseph Adams
hitler introduced the first 40hr week,
Hunter Flores
Impressive considering he must have been
Jaxon Collins
But let's be honest isn't getting lucky also related to working hard? Most people (100% including myself) have never tried anything even 1/100th the times I've read some successful people have failed their business ideas.
I just want to get rich. I will stop using Sup Forums or videogames soon and work on my goals instead of listening to society.
Chase Perez
So when do you see them getting to the socialism phase? When are all of the greedy, stupid, and dirty people who are weak willed sociopaths come together?
Jaxson Lee
Absolutely. It's just that it isn't sufficient, it is sometimes required but never enough on its own. Very much like a slot machine- the more you try the better your odds, but luck is necessary and at a certain point you run out of money to keep failing. Maybe Elon Musk couchsurfed for a decade or whatever, but if so he was lucky not to have any pressing bills or obligations forcing him to take a dishwashing job and give up on his plan.
>When are all of the greedy, stupid, and dirty people who are weak willed sociopaths come together?
That isn't how it needs to happen, the actual machines and farms in china are almost all owned by the government, the porkies who run them can get a text message one day from the politburo "some of you guys are alright, don't come to factory today"
Eli Garcia
I can guarantee that that will never happen. You need social cohesion and empathy for your fellow citizens to become socialist. The more capitalist they become, the more selfish and inhuman they will become.
Joshua Thomas
Yes. Seems success is a combination of Luck + Talent + A mind for business and probably a bunch of other personality traits.
Just like becoming an Olympic champion requires good genetics, luck, and tons of hardwork.
Jason Watson
That's one point that keeps me up at night, but honestly the iron fist of the CCP has worked magic before. They crushed liberalism with ABSURD force at Tienanmen, I think they have a shot. And they're in uncharted territory now, there's no real equivalents to compare them to. I don't think it's as hopeless as you make it sound.
Isaiah Phillips
Agreed, tbhq
Wyatt Richardson
I really think It's never going to happen desu. The Chinese are all soulless greedy creatures. t. interacts with and does business with chinese