Why hasn't this version of Batman, the DCEU Batman who has killed multiple people on-screen, killed the Joker?

Why hasn't this version of Batman, the DCEU Batman who has killed multiple people on-screen, killed the Joker?

Because it makes the inevitable Red Hood movie even better

The impression I keep getting from the Suicide Squad stuff is that this Joker is incredibly hard to kill. I'm sure he's not still alive from lack of trying.

> I LITERALLY CAN'T GO A DAY WITHOUT DISCUSSING CAPESHIT AND KILLING, PLEASE SOMEONE KEEP ME FROM BEING LONELY

experiment with going outside, you might find someone

The Joker is a magical entity in the DCEU

Because he only started killing recently as far as BVS goes. Not sure why people don't seem to get this.

Is that explicitly stated or is this inferring or bull?

Man, that was a gloomy Bruce. Even Alfred didn't give a fuck any more.

He thinks he did, only for the new joker to appear (Jason Todd) and after he becomes Red Hood, the real joker will come out of hiding.

same reason why the coyote never ate the road runner in those old cartoons.

Judging from the piked pole that's with the Robin suit, that's bullshit. If Robin was killing people, you can damn well be sure Batman has been.

Well the movie refuses to give any real sense of time or place, so that's on Snyder.

>why establish anything concrete in my movie? I have so much more badass imagery to put in first!

David Ayer said that his Joker isn't Jason Todd. He could be lying, but I doubt he is.

Inferring. Supposedly, it was supposed to be incredibly obvious from Alfred's speech, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. We have no way of knowing if Bruce was always killing or if it's a new thing. All we know is that he becomes meaner. Don't let Snyderfags tell you it was obvious because Alfred''s speech could be interpreted differently by anyone

It's implicitly stated.

Basically since Superman showed up with the colossal attack on Metropolis Batman has been having an existential crisis. Alfred's lines are good for understanding this, as is Batman's little speech about how criminals are like weeds.

Superman literally redeems Batman and Batman realises he's been being overly dramatic about stuff and his "Men are still good" line to Diana shows his redemption.

Also, as an earlier poster said Batman probably tried to kill the Joker after the death of Jason Todd (like he did in the comics), but the Joker survived because like Batman the Joker has plot armor.

Dude, this is a board dedicated to talking about capeshit. Calm your tits.

>Assuming assumptions
Alfred pretty much states multiple times that he's not a fan if Bruce's more brutal way of doing thing. That was what the whole "cruel men" speech was about.

Funny in the one movie where Batman killing people is actually acknowledged in story gets flack but the Burton movies where he outright murders left and right, and the authorities are OK with it almost never got called on it

because death is too good for The Joker. he need to break him with his Bat-Dick

The reason people give Burton's movie a pass is because of nostalgia. Same reason Man of Steel gets shit over the older Superman films.

Batman needs Joker.
Joker needs Batman.
They complete eachother.

As a cartoonfag the no kill rule wasn't introduced till btas which was after the burton-bat. I think most people use that timeline.

Burton never pretended he was making an accurate Batman movie, he was making Tim Burton movies first and comic-book movies second.

And those movies had things like gorgeous cinematography, decent acting, compelling action sequences, entertaining character arcs, you know all those other things movies should have that Snyder forgot to put in.

>compelling action sequences
Really ?

They're corny as hell but still entertaining, and I cared about what was going on in them.

This tbqhwymm80

Because this.

Snyder's Batman is accurate comic book movie version of the character. Batman doesn't just kill for no reason, his brutality is depicted to being a major character flaw that gets overcome by the end of the movie when Superman shows there is still hope for man.

>when Superman shows there is still hope for man.

As long as humankind still has mothers named Martha, we'll all be fine.

And I sure am glad that Supes had to be fridged so Batman could get his groove back. 11/10 storytelling Snyder, really respectful of the characters in your story.

That Bruce was actually going to kill Superman was a little crazy. Having a contingency plan is one thing but he had no reason real reason to kill Clark.

>not expecting Superman to die heroically when he fights Doomsday
>not understanding heroic sacrifice is 10/10 Superman
>failing to see the impact and inspiration that would have on other people

Shameful.

Look it was a dark couple months for Bruce alright?

>implying Doomsday should have been in the movie at all

>implying he didn't just do it to save his waifu because she's the only person they bother to give Clark an actual connection to besides his mom

>implying anyone could be inspired by this one-note lump of coal version of Superman even if he sacrificed himself

The entire third act of BvS is an unmitigated Battlefield Earth-tier disaster. Even if you want to argue the first two acts are some sort of 3deep capekino, any pretensions to depth are lost the second Batman and Superman start fighting.

Because he retired from being Batman by apprehending the Joker and maintaining his no killing rule.

Its only when Zod invades and Metropolis is destroyed that he actually comes back frmo retirement and drops the no killing rule.

THIS IS FUCKING EXPLAINED IN THE MOVIE. STOP ASKING RETARDED SHIT.

Part of the disappointment of the final battle is that at that point you stop giving a shit and want the movie to be over

>Be Batman v Superman
>Batman has been killing pretty much his entire movie career
>Decide to work this fact into the narrative as a large part of the film is based on deconstructing various facets of the characters in pop culture
>The context of the character is him being over the edge and having fallen into darkness
>Criminal scum get killed during Batman's singular quest to destroy Superman as he is blinded by rage and fueled by vengeance
>Batman takes out a few more in the frantic effort to save Martha Kent as her life is literally minutes from being over
>literally give a reason for the deaths
>At the end of the film Superman's sacrifice reminds Bruce of what he was meant to do and means to turn his life around

>people complain about Batman killing and can't understand why the Joker is alive


>literally no one complained like this when Nolan batman killed.

It's like fucking audiences are stillborn retards.

The whole third act is Exhibit A for the "Snyder hates Superman" truthers.

I suppose it's a matter of taste. To me, the Burton action scenes come off as stiff, awkward, and forgettable. They were by far the weakest parts of those movies.

Only raging autists like Devin Faraci believe that.

Snyder is SOMETHING towards Superman. He doesn't exactly hate him, but if he loves him he has a really funny way of showing it.

fridging is for women only user

They see only that they can.

Batman stopped believing in the cause and actually started to see it as harmful. He wanted to die killing Superman, taking them both out.

Batman was not well in his noggins.

You know how both movies are filled with Jesus motifs? I think Snyder actually fucking worships Superman. I think he treats him like a god.

Which would be hilarious, because that badly misses the point of Superman, and Snyder MADE A MOVIE about everyone missing the point of Superman.

>implying he didn't just do it to save his waifu because she's the only person they bother to give Clark an actual connection to besides his mom

The end wasn't about Superman sacrificing himself to save Lois, it was about Lois giving him strength to keep fighting for the world.

Superman felt guilty and ashamed, and started to think, almost like Batman, that him going around trying to help people as Superman was actually being harmful. Because that's what the media and congress was selling.

That scene with Pa Kent was to show that sometimes bad things will happen, even when you're trying to do good, and that yeah that's awful and hard, but you've got to keep trying anyway. Just find someone you love and that love you back to give you strength during the rough moments. Pak Kent found that in Ma Kent. She helped ease his nightmares.

That's what the end with Lois was. Superman acknowledging to Lois that she gave him strength to come back as Superman and that he had a job to do: dealing with Doomsday.

The Jesus and God motifs are there just to show the impact of Superman in the world.

Basically what these movies are trying to do is take the idea of super-hero out of the equation.
You know kinda like how in The Walking Dead comic and series people call the zombies as Walkers because they've no frame of reference as to what zombies are.
The same thing with the DCEU movies. People have no idea what super-hero is, so instead of thinking or referring to Superman as a super-hero, they address him as alien or a god-like figure walking among them. Even Batman is treated more as a demon or some sort of monster in BvS.

I am not sure, in hindsight, that this was the best course of action.

I find these sort of things odd and pretentious as well.

Well, not so much in the case of Superman, because of his powers. He really is god-like in certain ways. But the way people address Batman as "Bat of Gotham" or "The Bat" bothered me a bit. It's fucking Batman! For fuck's sake.

Funny Snyder supposedly makes such "dumb" films yet these people can't seem to grasp such a simple plot detail. What's that say about them?

This.

Biblical similarities was already planted in Superman's roots by his creators.
Also stop projecting. Now, when you have time.

But The Walking Dead was not using previously established fictional characters to tell its story.

You can't blatantly steal iconography from The Dark Knight Returns and then pretend you're rewriting the paradigm of superhero stories. This movie would make literally no sense unless you have a deep knowledge of the DC universe, and yet Snyder wants to trade on that while going "IT'S A BOLD NEW DIRECTION IGNORE EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS!"

You can't have both. Say what you want about the Nolan trilogy, if you didn't know dick about Batman you could follow that entire trilogy as films on their own merits.

>What's that say about them?

That his stories are so poorly-told that it's hard to even follow the basic narrative and character arcs of his films?

But the whole point of Superman is that he's just a guy. He's a decent guy who loves his parents, works his job, and has a sunny disposition, and oh, by the way, is the most powerful being on the planet. That's his whole shtick, but we don't see this at all in Snyder's films. His Superman is all ubermensch, all the time.

I mean, fuck, even Golden Age Supes was really concerned with the issues of his friends and neighbors, and his fellow man. He beat up shitty landlords back in the day. And it was always important that he was pretty normal.

lol wut

The entirety of Batman v Superman is to point out that Superman is more man than anything else.

See, I didn't get that vibe. Snyder seemed much more interested in deifying Superman from my perspective.

Batman only got more brutal when Superman showed up. He didnt feel like killing the Joker before (or maybe he did which is why there are more movies on the way).
People dont expect to overthink character motivations in big blockbusters. Either that or Marvel has really dumbed down the capeshit audience.

People for some reason have a really hard time understanding certain aspects of BvS. I don't know why.

For example lots of people don't understand why Batman wanted to kill Superman.

They think that Batman didn't knew that Superman was fighting Zod or that he's going around the world helping people, or they think that Batman was merely trying to take revenge from what happened for the Wayne Tower in Metropolis.

When actually the movie plainly show that Batman stopped believing in vigilantism or heroism. He started to see it as futile and harmful. Just men playing heroes and fucking things up.

Batman line of thought was: "When i fuck things up i'm only harming Gotham, but when Superman fuck things up the whole world is in danger."

That's why Batman became progressively more madder as the news of Superman fuck-ups started to pile up. Because the news only reaffirmed his line of thinking.

To him both Batman and Superman had to die. They weren't heroes. Real heroes are normal people that bleed and die like his father, not people like them playing costumes and ruining lives.

I said stop projecting.

Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there? Because you're right, people DIDN'T see this. Critics and audiences both missed this and all this other shit you people hold up as evidence that the movie is secretly brilliant. Either it's not actually there, or Snyder failed to properly convey it.

It was written by Oscar-winner, no wonder normies didn't get it.

Scott Snyder only deified Superman from the perspective of the media. You know, the fear mongers selling paranoia and distrust. Every time Superman is shown through the lens of the media through the talking heads everything Superman does is distorted and twisted.

But when we see Superman or Clark through the normal moments we see just a guy trying to do the right thing and feeling frustrated that no one is paying attention to things that are truth and real.

This is a good interpretation.

You're also not the first person I've seen make this argument.

I posted which I think is a pretty good literal breakdown of the character in the film, but yours can fit just as well as an additional layer

This is why I love the movie, there are some flaws in execution, but the conceptual and thematic underpinnings simply blow out of the water most other cape flicks, if not all.

In his private moments we see Clark confide in his mother, come home with flowers to his girlfriend, take the ferry across to the city over, etc. All he wants to do is help others, and he is struggling with the projections people are throwing onto him, and with the fear that his desire to help is hurting others. His character arc is overwhelmingly human.

So why was he still brutal after he stopped himself from killing Superman?

>Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there?

Well, maybe i might be wrong, but let's track some of the scenes.

The movie opens with Bruce having a dream about his parents deaths and the cave with the bats, saying that he thought that the bats had taken him into the light but that the whole thing was a lie.

Then we see that Batman has abandoned his morals. That killing a criminal now is just like pulling a weed. That more would grow. This is a pretty defeatist type of thinking.

Then there are the scene where Alfred confronts him. Alfred can see that Superman is a hero and that he does good, but what is Bruce rebuttal? "Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?".

Then there are the scenes where Alfred remind Bruce that him fighting Superman is suicide. Bruce pretty much admit it to him. Bruce wasn't expecting to come back from his confrontation.

Counterpoint: if this were a proper Superman movie, he wouldn't be nearly as misunderstood. The DC universe isn't our universe. It's the Marvel universe that tries to be like ours.

>Counterpoint: if this were a proper Superman movie, he wouldn't be nearly as misunderstood. The DC universe isn't our universe. It's the Marvel universe that tries to be like ours.

Because he still hadn't thought about it. Bruce only thought about the whole thing after Superman's death.

Bruce saved Superman's mother because he jumped on the chance of saving a "Martha". That spoke to him.

It was only after Superman's help and sacrifice in dealing with Doomsday that Bruce felt remorseful.

He realized Superman wasn't the enemy he thought he was, but it wasn't until he witnessed Superman willing to die to save everyone that he woke up to the fact that he needs to be better as a true hero in order to truly honor him.

Besides, considering the situation, Batman pretty much acted the only way he could to save Martha in time.

Someone should replace Ma and Pa's lines with ones from the movies.

>Superman had to die so Batman could complete his arc

They fucking fridged him. Snyder sacrificed Superman so Batman could get over his case of the feels with no regard to Clark as a character.

Couldn't we have done all this without Superman having to die?

I'm a Supesfag and I genuinely fucking hate that he's been shoved to the side so we can have the fucking Batman show AGAIN.

>Alfred: You know you can't win this. It's suicide.
>Bruce Wayne: I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.
>Alfred: Twenty years of fighting criminals amounts to nothing?
>Bruce Wayne: Criminals are like weeds, Alfred; pull one up, another grows in its place. This is about the future of the world. This is my legacy.

We can see here that Bruce wanted to die. Him being older than his father actually hurts him.

you say that as if Batman and the JL aren't going to get BTFO in Justice League until Superman comes in and saves the day

I actually would be fine if the movie ended with Batman saving Martha and Superman confronting Lex after he summoned Steppenworfl, apprehending him. You could have a later scene with Bruce, Clark and Diana talking things through at the Kents farm. Bruce excusing himself and revealing what Lex had said.

Snyder said the big reason he killed Superman was so that Batman would be the one to form the Justice League. Just let that sink in.

But he totally likes Superman you guys!

We could have, but having Supes sacrifice himself like that really solidified him as a cool bro and made Bruce feel like a huge dick. Plus it gives him more reason to track down and recruit meta humans since uh oh- a big bad is coming and we kinda just killed the one guy who could probably stop it.

Bullshit.

Joker would have to deal The Question , Crimson Avenger, and all the other detective-type heroes. Batman has every other villain to deal with. If it's not the villains, it's corruption in the politics and business world. If it's not Gotham, it's the rest of the world. Batman would still be pretty busy without Joker.

LMAO, NOLAN MOVIES DUDE

where is this shit stated, pls?

>Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there?
>"how many good guys are left, how many stayed that way"
>"even if there is a one percent chance, we have to take it as an absolute certainty"

Of course Ben could spell it out but this really should be enough to understand Batmans motivations.

there is no mention of the killing but everyone was commenting how Batman became more ruthless since superman appeared.

>Normies still uncomfortable with Batman's manslaughtering
Good job, Snyder for completely destroying "no-killing rule as absolute" bullshit. RedHood fags must suffer.

>hurr Golden Age Batman

Then where the fuck are Batfleck's purple gloves?

enjoy you less compelling character

he is a legend, no one knows he is just a human. they think he might have powers, or might not.

its part of the Hero's journey user. MoS is the first third of the hero's journey (ending with the call to action), BvS is the second third (ending with the death bit), and JL will be that last third. His death was necessary.

>b-but b-but golden age!

>enjoy you less compelling character
>Dude that avoids killing when it's necessary by deus ex machines is more compelling
Okkk.

Snyder has a point about how it doesn't make sense to go and build a Justice League if you already have world's greatest hero around. In order for the JL movie to work, Superman needs to be away and it's Batman who builds the league because of Superman's absence and the upcoming threat. Superman's heroic sacrifice also gives BvS a better ending because he dies to save the world and it's that sacrifice that wins the world finally over. You could not achieve it simply by Superman punching a bad guy down in the climax or personally arresting Lex and exposing him. There would be doubt, because that's how people act. It's far harder to contest a martyr, a dead hero you can deify.

joker dies killed by his son batlo mann

The Jokers mother is named Martha.

why hasn't the question killed the joker?

This isnt the first time Batman has been betrayed as a monster or boogeyman though

Why would he?

>Why would he?
because it is a good Question

Joker isn't good guy.

Watched this again yesterday...

When Supes flies over to Gotham to fight Batman, Batman is waiting for him on the roof next to the Bat signal. When Superman lands they mysteriously teleport to the alley below.

Bad form, Snyder...

He didn't write the film you faggot.

My man.

>Burton had gorgeous cinematography and Snyder didn't
What the fuck?

>An alien with the power to destroy the world begs for Batman to save his human mother in the face of death and goes on to give his life for humanity.
yeah what the fuck right

>it's hard to even follow the basic narrative and character arcs of his films
You don't have to be intelligent to follow them, but you're unintelligent if you can't.