>Death is just a universal fact. The logical conclusion to existence.
>The character Death is just a point of view of death, but at the same time represents and includes the whole idea.
>And Death is possibly greater than Lucifer and maybe even God, but that sort of depends the setting and even then at that point you're getting too metaphysical to really mean much.
Yes, but they exist in DC universe and in this universe god created existence and by the end of Lucifer, god and Lucifer go outside existence. Also god is replaced by a little girl named Elaine because god is tired of being our god.
>god is tired of being our god. Well, can you blame him?
Carter Ross
Nope.
Jace Powell
Well Lucifer is Vertigo and not really DC canon. See Michael and Gabriel. That's like saying Saint of Killers because Preacher is Vertigo.
Jacob Anderson
I think he is, considering Watchmen weren't part of it at all, but in Sandman we got crossovers with Constantine and small appearances of Superman and Batman
Mason Miller
Sandman started off in the DC setting but as it went on moved away to do its own thing the writer wanted. Same as Constantine and Lucifer too. Stuff in Constantine and Lucifer outright conflicts with stuff in main DC by the end of the series.
Samuel Morales
>Well, can you blame him? considering how badly he fucked up, why should I not blame him
Noah Johnson
Don't forget the cameos of Martian Manhunter and Mr Miracle in... I want to say Sandman #4.
Thomas Lewis
I still can't believe that great of a line was in fucking spykids 2
Gabriel Parker
The planes of the Endless are literally part of the DC metaphisical multiverse, they are all DC.
Preancher isn't part of the same multiverse.
Leo Lewis
The ribbon man also exited existence into this void so that he could pass over to the new existence created whenever the old one is destroyed, though, user. It's not like being outside of existence exempts them from death. The Jin En Mok too, actually.
Lucifer simply isn't threatened by any of the particular hazards included in living inside existence and Yahweh God removed the link between him and his religion, making it so that he won't decline like all the other gods should Christianity and Judaism (and Islam?) stop being a thing and force him to blink out of existence, so that he could go explore and do whatever he wants.
God only created existence because he's "currently" the majority of humans believe is the true creator. Not like the Japanese gods or the Norse gods or the Celtic gods or whatever. He WAS no different from those ancient, forgotten gods. Reality is rewritten to accommodate the beliefs of the people. Their beliefs, their DREAMS, become reality (of sorts) through religion and mythical figures. When people stop believing them, they begin to become less real. When people forget them, they no longer are.
Thomas Barnes
the druids said of God, that he is the only one who:
can endure the infinite can renew all things can interact with all things without destroying them
I see the real God as being more of a person outside this dimension (or simulation if you prefer) that chooses to interact, only when it perfectly conforms to his own goals
by its very nature it's not possible for a finite being to understand or describe an infinite or 'complete' being
Colton Sanders
might as well
Grayson Gutierrez
...
Charles Watson
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Caleb Bailey
postt the whole thing
Luke Parker
...
Jeremiah Rivera
Hm? Done already?
Isaiah Allen
sorry
Jaxon Bennett
...
Kevin Perez
...
Daniel Smith
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Cameron James
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Nathan Fisher
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Camden Walker
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Ryan Cook
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Nathaniel Gonzalez
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Gavin Scott
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Tyler Peterson
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Landon Morales
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James Richardson
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Luis Sanders
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Ryan Sanders
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Isaiah Lopez
Is anyone reading this?
Easton Bell
I am.
Jace Flores
...
Lincoln Morris
Alright.
Luke Gray
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Julian Lee
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Michael Wilson
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Owen Roberts
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Eli Cook
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Jack Nguyen
I posted page 29 as the op picthis is 30
Jackson Morgan
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Nathan Diaz
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Jack Hernandez
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Jason Young
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Caleb Gutierrez
page 34 implies he is god "God", and not on the same level as the other gods, who are like magical physical beings, or at least that's what I get from it
Carson Scott
...
Chase Russell
...
Isaac Thompson
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Levi Reyes
And...
Adam Richardson
That's it
Noah Walker
On a side note, does anyone wanna talk about how horrible the TV show was? trailer for season 2/recap: youtube.com/watch?v=urBQ1a00xbE
Charles Johnson
Thanks fag, I missed this book. It's been years, and I don't want to tarnish my memory of it.
Gabriel Howard
No problem. What do you mean tarnish?
Jonathan Ward
What does the 'razh' in Mazikeen's first line here? I can make out all the other words except that one.
Kevin Hill
"That was me, my lord."
James Hughes
>page 34 implies he is god "God", and not on the same level as the other gods, who are like magical physical beings, or at least that's what I get from it This page contradicts it though. He says it right there. Just like Lucifer, he was shaped by forces beyond his own control. Like any other god, he's a dream who was made real.
Tyler Jenkins
As for him being the "God" god, remember the story of the cats and how they used to rule the world. Or, hell, Sandman Overture where a new reality was dreamed up where Dream didn't let the dream vortex go out of control and destroy everything.
Brody Brown
Yeah, but I thought that was implying he was created before creation was created by something else I thought the story of cats was a dream, and I didnt read overture yet. was it good? I actually bought an issue because the cover was amazing.
Joshua Ward
She's saying "Yes".
Kevin Carter
That's rhesz.
Cameron Jackson
What is she saying here? "Because you have built a great"...?
Ayden Hernandez
>I thought the story of cats was a dream Heh, ironic, isn't it? However, the reality where cats ruled was a story told to a cat by Dream himself. So maybe he was telling a true story of how things were before they changed. Or maybe he created a story for the cat to believe in. Who knows? Although Overture actually confirmed that reality really was remade by the dreams of humans, I believe. That's actually how the problem of the dream vortex destroying reality actually got fixed; by gathering survivors and bringing them outside of reality on an ark where they could be made to dream of a new reality.
A dream is not real. That's the dichotomy and it remains true throughout the Sandman. Gods begin from dreams before they leave it and walk in the realm of mortals. In the end, however, they return to being dreams. The gods of Sandman and Lucifer are no less real just because they're not the "God" god.
Also, remember the 2 giants who wanted to become god? They didn't take God's throne directly. They weren't powerful enough to do so. Something like that would be equal to taking Lucifer's wings or some other symbol of power for one's self. Instead, those 2 giants inserted themselves into all the stories from the Old Testament. They inserted themselves into the beliefs of the people.
Also, look at the creation Lucifer created. There's no afterlife because he forbid his universe's inhabitants from worshiping, which meant they could imagine an afterlife into being for themselves.
Luke Miller
Tower?
Man, the first time I read through this entire series, I had completely gotten the hang of Mazikeen's speech impediment. But now I'm back to square one.
John Campbell
Dude, Lucifer never stopped being part of DC. The only character that did, and that is just a bit, was Hellblazer's John Constantine, and that because Vertigo aged the character too much.
The angels that ruled Hell after Lucifer left appeared constantly in Garth Ennis' The Demon run. Daniel Hall appeared twice in JLA, Death appeared in Action Comics right before the 2011 reboot, Destiny appears in the DCU map. Heck in Nu52 they referenced Sandman and Lucifer.
Camden Bailey
>I thought the story of cats was a dream
Overture pretty much confirmed it happened.
Dream is the opposite side of reality and in Gaiman's fictional universe it obviously has quite real ramifications in that collective dreams define reality.
Ian Nelson
The Lucifer book was however separate from the DCU since it contradicted mainline DCU's take on heaven such as Michael (who was the Spectre's boss instead of being chained up in some Angel's basement) or the shenanigans in Lucifer leaving Elaine in charge and God out of the picture.
Ian Watson
It'd be right at home in some sort of Ridley Scott android horror film
Gavin Collins
I think he's referring to the writer more than anything
Liam Diaz
Did the new mini ever explain why it completely rejected canon?
Lucas Robinson
That house is in Morrison's JLA run, it's where Prometheus would escape to.
Parker Campbell
In the new Lucifer story god is dead, so he was right, he didn't see Lucifer again.
Kevin Cook
The Overvoid created the Source, the Source created the presence/god/Yahweh, God created the Multiverse. The writers created it all.
Lucas Johnson
Lucifer is shown relaxing on the beach after leaving Hell in The Spectre. It's all connected, they just take place at different times.
Ethan Morgan
Time and space are pliable to these beings. We don't have a set timeline for when things began besides the basic timeline of Sandman and Constantine.
We know that Lucifer left Hell before Constantine got Cancer and after Dream was freed from his prison. We also know that Constantine WAS an adult and active during the time Lucifer was in Hell because Dream visits Constantine when he is getting his bag of sand back, which was before he went to hell the second time.
Other than that we have no clue, and you need to remember that apparently the universe is in a constant state of replay with slightly different events happening each time. So really without meaning to they set this up perfectly so that they can basically have these events happen whenever they want.
Luis Kelly
Exactly.
Adam Ward
>The only character that did Shade did too. He ripped reality a new one to become his own continuity.
Julian Miller
Didn't Michael go missing a long, long time ago? I'm not sure what this talk about Michael being the Spectre boss has to do with anything, but it probably can't have happened before he was freed.
Caleb Gonzalez
I think Constantine stole Michael's grace/innocence or whatever and then cut his wings off with a chainsaw in Hellblazer.
Owen Fisher
Yeah, so, since I'm not clear on events beyond what happened in Lucifer itself, I'm assuming that this was able to happen after he was freed, right? If we're to try to put these events into a coherent timeline.
Then some time between that and Michael's own end, he had his wings returned to him?
Nicholas Price
>and speak of other things? Of ships and shoes and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings?
Chase Fisher
That took place before Lucifer, that's why he's all fucked up in Lucifer. I could be wrong though, it actually might have been Gabriel. That could explain why he isn't in Lucifer except for the flashback.
Daniel Rivera
As a devout Catholic, I have long found Gaiman's cosmology (and Moore's, for that matter) rather quaint. Maybe I'm the only one who does, but there you go.
Bentley Adams
Whatever do you mean?
Jonathan Hill
...
Nathaniel Jackson
well you follow a roman mystery cult full of druidic and dionysian ritual, so shut up
Camden Green
Gabriel has black hair and Michael is blonde with long hair, if that helps.
I was referring to when it was Michael was supposed to be imprisoned. I think it was stated that he went missing after he struck down Lucifer or something?
Wyatt King
You think the TV show is bad? Okay, I know it probably is but the sequel comic is shaping up to be worse.
>Elaine just sort of disappeared from lack of belief despite taking God's place
>The Presence was retconned into having left because of Lucifer leaving Hell (in the Sandman Luci takes a moment to appreciate a sunrise, in Lucifer God turns out to have been trying to give Lucifer what he wanted all along, now the idea he might have been AFRAID of Luci is being proposed)
>Mazikeen allowed herself to be bound by her brethren despite the series' end establishing they'd betrayed her
>Izanami is still hooked on revenge despite her arc ending with her letting go of it (seriously, she and Lucifer boned).
The weirdest part is throughout all this, Lucifer himself hasn't been acting out of character. Mostly. Him returning AT ALL defies the whole point of him leaving.
Oh, did I mention the Presence is dead? Somehow the omnipotent, omniscient entity got BACKSTABBED by Gabriel in a fit of rage. And now the Presence's body is currently a giant space jellyfish.
