To be honest I think that the recent gender swap thing that comic books have been doing with their male superheroes is...

To be honest I think that the recent gender swap thing that comic books have been doing with their male superheroes is kind of lazy. Make new female superheroes instead. Or are you saying your existing female superheroes are shit and you don't want to make movies or comics about them?

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When they make books without genderswaps (like Sif's Journey Into Mystery run) no one buys them. This is the only way they can make money.

Did you think they did genderswaps just for fun or something? Stop being ignorant and do some research.

it's not enough to give them their own heroes, they've had that forever. they have to have the ESTABLISHED heroes with the built-in name-brand-recognition popularity
as usual women aren't content to be equal or even more than equal, they still demand to have what men earned.

i've seen way more women say that video games and comic books are for nerds and children than I have seen men say it.

Gender swapping the characters wont "reach a bigger audience" because the hardcore comic book nerds who are the vast majority of who actually buys comic books hate the gender swapping and see no reason for it because no reason has been given so the chances their consistent audiences will buy it is lowered.

it's such bullshit

oh wow you're a popular guy!

>the vast majority of comic book nerds

you know all of them?! You speak for the vast majority of comic book nerds? You're a lucky man!

>It's "a Sup Forums pretends to read comics" episode!

When will people stop this meme and realize comics are literally the same as they've always been.

i've never seen girls bullying anyone for being a "nerd". It's always the boys pushing them into lockers and shit.

i'm not even trying to be sexist. All i'm saying is it's lazy as fuck to just use existing heroes instead of making new interesting female heroes. I think they should focus on making new heroes that's all.

>Marvel doesn't create new characters!
>What is a NuHuman?

honestly if they only made comics for the vast majority then we'd never see anything else. So i'd rather see these things and it doesn't matter if the "majority" doesn't buy it because who cares? As long as enough people do buy it to keep it existing and influencing more young girls to think "oh spider gwen is really cool I wanna be like that" then we get more cool shit.

so shut the fuck up

>So just make everyone a white dude! That's how it's always been!

Bet these "just make new characters" faggots have never heard of Avengers: The Initiative

oh good, this thread again

>Make new female superheroes instead.
This argument is retarded, new heroes fail 90% of the time, most of them are lucky if they become D-list in the long run.

>Or are you saying your existing female superheroes are shit and you don't want to make movies or comics about them?
That's pretty objectively the case.

They should make a female Carol Danvers sometime.

I bet she would be hot.

>Or are you saying your existing female superheroes are shit and you don't want to make movies or comics about them?
More like no one cares about them unless they have successful blockbuster movie. In fact, no one fucking cares about comics.

Wow, what a controversial opinion.

>all these people agreeing with this gender swapping bullshit
Why

Or maybe they're just mixing things up by trying something different and it isn't part of some grand feminist conspiracy.

SJW

>knowing why something is the way it is means you're agreeing with it
No.

so you agree it's stupid and lazy?

Some of us read comics and know which controversies sell and which don't.

Also, those of us who actually come here regularly instead of occasionally getting lost on the way to Sup Forums or Tumblr or Twitter or Sup Forums or whatever are physically incapable of responding to these threads with anything but dismissal after seeing them hundreds of times a week.

Legacy characters have literally always been a thing but stupid fags like you who dont read comics are only pretending to care because they arent all white males now.

Fuck off.

>Make new superheroes

They do. Hardly any of them are popular and get shoved aside until it's time for them to die in a random event.

>stupid
No, because there's a reason for doing it.
>lazy
Also no, a character could be pushed to the moon and still fail miserably, just look at Sam Alexander.

I don't agree that genderswapping should be the answer, but I do agree that genderswapping IS the answer. No one gives a shit about new heroes so this how things will always be.

>When they make books without genderswaps... no one buys them
No one buys the books with genderswaps either.
The problem isn't what the character has in their pants, but that they suck ass at writing books.

Why not just focus on making good superheroes that are fun to read about or that have creative adventure instead of trying to push 'diversity' and 'positive representation'.

I would buy the shit out of a Robin/Bunker book.

>"It's lazy to pull these cheap stunts"
>"HURRR MUH Sup Forums"
Seems about right

The last "new" hero I started reading was deadpool. Every other hero/heroes have been around for decades.

if you guys don't mind me dereailing the thread and I doubt you do name some new guys/girls I should look into. Basically anyone from the year 2000 to today. I fell off new heroes after the 90s.

If the quality of the writing was the issue then Bendis books wouldn't be doing well.

They do that, too. Tons of new characters are created every year. Then when they try to push them to get them more popularity you complain that they're "forced" or made to fill diversity quotas.

You realize they aren't literally turning Tony Stark into a black woman, right?

Why do you think legacy heroes are some new phenomenon? If this were the 70's would you be pissing and moaning about Rhodes taking over for Iron Man? Or John Stewart becoming Green Lantern? What about Quasar? Or Wally West becoming Flash? Is that all "lazy" because they used existing hero names?

Get the fuck over yourself. It's so painfully obvious you don't know shit about comics yet think your opinion is somehow more valid than SJWs who know as little about comics as you do.

As a gay user, I don't read books with female main characters. Even genderswapped men that have became women. Mostly because I don't really want to ogle them or care what happens to them.

Comic books are all about cheap stunts though.

Bunker, a fun character trapped in a serious book.

Is he in Rebirth?

>comics are literally the same as they've always been.
There's no same way that comics have always been.

Up until the late 1930s, comics had no superheroes, and were mostly comic-strip-style funnies (hence the name "comic book"), with some pulp adventure.

Simple superhero stories for children became popular mostly in the late 30s and early 40s.

Mid-40s to early-50s saw the rise of adult (if trashy) crime and horror comics, which were regulated out of existence in the mid-50s, and comic printers returned to childish superhero comics in an effort to survive.

60s was an evolution of superhero comics with more complex characters, social commentary, and dark elements, to appeal to the teen and adult markets bereft of their lurid crime and horror stories, while working around the Comics Code.

This evolution continued fairly straightforwardly until sales plummeted over the 80s due to competition from video games. At this point, comics dropped from the mainstream, and the industry became niche and desperate, flailing wildly for attention and fighting viciously over the small remaining market. Furthermore, the American comic scene began to face serious competition from manga, which stayed healthy through its role as market testing of storyboards for anime and became more accessible thanks to the rise of the internet, and from webcomics. At the same time, desktop publishing made small-run comics from minor publishers increasingly viable, which resulted in a proliferation of works of widely-varying artistic merit.

With comics freed from the child market, peak edgelord was achieved in the 90s.

Hope was revived in the early 2000s when comic-book-based IP became the foundation for fantastically profitable film and game mega-franchises, but "Hey, we're here!" flailing continues.

The 2010s have seen significant incursions from the Tumblr hivemind into the old franchises. It's as real (and bad) as the edgelord crap of the 90s.

You have to be over 18 to post here.

>As long as enough people do buy it to keep it existing and influencing more young girls to think "oh spider gwen is really cool I wanna be like that" then we get more cool shit.
>Spider-gwen
>cool shit
She's cold diarrhea in a dixie cup.

Nope, which is a damn shame.

X-Statix
New X-Men
Young Avengers
Avengers Academy
Runaways
Jessica Jones

Just off the top of my head from Marvel. There are tons and tons of great new characters but after the run they're created for is done, no one ever brings them back, in favor of creating their own new characters.

>not being /r9k/ makes you underage
Am I on Bizarro World?

This is exactly why LGBTBBQ has stopped giving a shit about you.

>Wolverine
>Thor
>Iron Man
>Rocketeer
>all in the past year and a half alone

Nice world you have in your mind, user.

Hey, I can't help it if I'd prefer Chrononauts or Grayson over Wonder Woman or Birds of Prey.

It's LGBTQBPR now.

For real though, are there any female superheroes of note, like at least C-list, that aren't family/legacy characters like Supergirl like Captain Carol, or really bigger as part of a team like any female X-Men member or Black Widow?

Seems like the only female superhero that's ever really stood on her own was Wonder Woman, and even arguably half of that is Trinity coattails.

that's because no one gives a fuck about women. I want male superheroes. They're cool and interesting. I don't care about some dumb bitch.

That's probably because the main demographic for superhero comics is male.
Though, I do know a couple of girls that are huge fans of Death.

Black user here. I feel the same way about race swaps. It feels like some coorporate stooge has list of minorities he's checking off a list to feel better about himself (and make lots of money) I get why they don't just create new minority heroes, they don't sell. But this pandering these last couple of years has been insulting the new characters don't have heart, they're just done to get 5 seconds of attention from media. Pic related is the last race change I actually liked, probably because it didn't make the front page of some blog. Of course they made him into a gay Felicity in Arrow for no reason.

Nice strawman
dumbass

The only example of genderswap that annoys me is Thor. He's a historical figure. A norse god. The god is a male. You can't change what a god is. Superheroes yes but this isn't a superhero. He's a historical person. Thor was a male. Fact.

Nigga fucking what?

Thor is a male norse god. Thor is a historical figure, not some comic book superhero.

>never seen girls bully
Consider yourself lucky.
They can be real hardcore.

Stuff like superhero comics and pro wrestling are about simplifying the world to something like early tribal society, where there are only a few people who matter, and they solve their differences with fistfighting and sneaky tricks.

It's fantasy, but it's not completely arbitrary fantasy. The fantastical elements serve to return the characters, socially, to these primitive times that we evolved to expect to live in.

Women on average are only about half as physically strong as men. In pre-modern conditions, they would be occupied most of their life with bearing and caring for children. Women are more inhibited from acting decisively in times of danger and accepting personal hazard. They've never been the stuff of the greatest heroes in reality.

A woman being the best and strongest on her own doesn't resonate with our social instincts. One or two women finding a lower place on a larger team of the best and strongest does ring true (Justice League, Avengers -- a hunting party bringing along a pre-fertile tomboy whose uncommon talents compensate for her lower strength). The best and strongest tribes having equal numbers of men and women also rings true (X-Men, the Inhumans). So does the best and strongest men having ties to and respect for women that are exceptional, and respected as their social equals, but not their equals in ability.

Fantastical elements that make women into solo heroes, or leaders of heroes, are emotionally unsatisfying for most people, because they make the situation more socially different from primitive human life, from our evolutionary background.

Mythical Thor has almost nothing to do with Marvel Thor beyond some very bare elements and poaching some names. Anyone that goes "muh myths" has clearly never read a fucking Thor comic before and is most likely Sup Forums scum.

Of all the complaints to have with Aaron's Thor, "not close enough to the myths" is the single most retarded and non-valid one possible.

I just honestly don't give a fuck about a female hero. I want a male one. They're cool. Women are not interesting nor are they cool.

>Make new female superheroes instead.
They did. And then nobody bought the damn book, so they stopped.

I shit you not...I shit you not. Elyse from Funhaus just said this exact same thing. You fucks ain't even trying any more.

then obviously no one gives a fuck about female heroes so stop trying to make it a thing. It will never be a thing. Fuck off. Stop ruining existing heroes.

When have we EVER tried?

That's Earth-X Thor, from a weird 90s don't-call-it-What-If miniseries that turned the world all crazy and rapidly brought it to an apocalyptic ending. The guy who posted it is being a dick.

Odin had turned Thor into a woman to punish and humiliate him and hopefully fix his arrogance, like the original Thor comic premise where Odin had turned him into a mortal man for the same reason. Whether he also used his magic to make her dress like a little slut, or Thor just took a liking to it, is left to the reader's imagination.

This is, of course, not at all the same thing as replacing Thor with a woman, even if it wasn't in a "What If: The World Was All Crazy, Fucked Up, and Doomed?".

m.youtube.com/watch?v=eg6HYuvIJos

2:35

Marvel Thor is a fucking superhero you autist. Nobody gives a fuck about Norse mythology. Plus Thor Odinson is still a male. Jane Foster is Thor the God of Thunder now. Why cant you faggots do your research before you shitpost here?

Oh my bad it wasnt' Elyse it was the comment she was reading that said this post

That is a damn shame.
I still think he should have been placed with the Laterns.

What does that have to do with age?

>I get why they don't just create new minority heroes
But they do all the fucking time, you casual dipshit.

I think it also helps that Marvel forced this Whor development on the View, MTV, social media, and the clickbait websites took care of the rest.

Journey into Mystery had NO such media attention or advertising.

>Anyone that goes "muh myths" has clearly never read a fucking Thor comic before and is most likely Sup Forums scum.

Thanks for outing yourself

>You realize they aren't literally turning Tony Stark into a black woman, right?
Not the guy you replied to, but this actually does make me upset. This Iron Man replacement.

Not because Iron Man is being replaced by a black woman. But because the way Marvel is going about it shows they care more about the controversy than anything else.

They already have fucking Lila Rhodes. She's not even an old character, just 2014. She fits into the same basic archetype as Riri - black, female, intelligent, machinist/programmer - but unlike Bendis's donut steel she's an existing character with close ties to other characters in the Iron Man group. The character development opportunities that come with her uncles death are too good to pass up.

BUT THEY IGNORED HER ANYWAY FOR BENDIS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just keep male characters male. I don't give a fuck about the female heroes. They don't even need to be white males. My favorite Green Lantern is John Stewart.

That's Red Norvell, not actually Thor. Thanks for outing yourself.

>Make new female superheroes instead.

It's about strategy.
If they make a new hero, male or female, there's no way to know in advance if it will work, whereas a female Thor offers some guarantee of selling the first issues before it bombs (or not).

And yet it's just another bottle in the sea, they throw a hundred of them and rip benefits on the few which work, as long as they work. Then announce the "return" of the original like it's an earth-shattering surprise.

Are there notorious examples of the reverse, famous superheroins being replaced by males?

> I loved Galacta, though

R.I.P.

I'm not gonna lie and try to justify myself. I realize i'm an asshole and honestly don't care. I don't care about female superheros. So its not that I want them to make more original female heroes because I don't want them to do that. Fuck female heroes. I care because I want them to leave the male heroes alone. They're ruining them. It's 100% sexist i'm not even denying it but I really don't care about the female heroes. They don't interest me and I hate when they are in a focal point. Stay in the background or don't be involved at all.

Superman > supergirl
Batman > batgirl
Robin > batgirl
Superman > wonder woman
Hulk > she hulk
the other 3 members of fantastic 4 > invisible woman
Male heroes > female heroes

...I like Sue

I don't like her for the sole reason she's a woman. If she was the invisible man i'd be fine with her. I just don't like women heroes.

Wew

If anything I just hate how stereotypically they're written. Only female heroes I like are She-Hulk because 80;s and Barda.

That's literally some of the dilumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.

I realize how stupid it is but I really don't care. This isn't just for comics either btw. I refuse to vote for Hilary in the upcoming election just because she's a woman. I'd rather vote for fucking Trump and that guys insane.

>Galacta
Tell me more of her user.

>I don't care about female superheros.

See: >Stuff like superhero comics and pro wrestling are about simplifying the world to something like early tribal society, where there are only a few people who matter, and they solve their differences with fistfighting and sneaky tricks.

>It's fantasy, but it's not completely arbitrary fantasy. The fantastical elements serve to return the characters, socially, to these primitive times that we evolved to expect to live in.

I don't understand what you're trying to say

That perhaps your reasons for not liking the idea of female superheroes isn't as simple as even you thought.

I'm not terribly fond of them either because I've met maybe 10 or 20 girls in the 19 years I've been alive that liked stuff like vidya and cartoons. So the idea that a girl gets super powers and wants to be a super hero doesn't click for me. Not to this extent

Then they should try establishing the female heroes made already with good writing. The problem is that these fem heroes weren't popular enough so they give titles to women because they complained. You wanna try some thing new and different try reading the original female heroes first instead of being jealous of their male counterparts.

They are saying that this market does not accept new characters well

And they are right

male heroes are just better plain and simple. They're cooler and more interesting. Also they're men so that automatically makes them better. Women need to shut the fuck up.

1) You're not alone. You're in the majority.
2) You're not being a dick (well, not just by not caring about female superheroes).
3) The reasons are fairly straightforward and easy to understand.

Why female superheroes are less popular than male ones isn't any more mysterious or changeable than why romance novels are full of relatively passive, flawed women being swept off their feet by forceful, morally-ambiguous men rather than self-sufficient women gradually forming mutually-respectful relationships with polite, rule-following men of equal ability, who agree to take equal turns doing the laundry.

then stop making new characters. Don't ruin the existing ones.

but also you're wrong. Guardians of the Galaxy no one knew shit about. Huge film. New heroes and still popular as fuck.

women need to learn their god damn place and role in society. They've been getting too uppity and it's annoying as fuck.

Terrible bait, you didn't even try.

>ale heroes are just better plain and simple. They're cooler and more interesting.

Probably because you can't relate with a female character or you like to self-insert yourself in male roles.

No, the problem is that women liked the movies and wanted more like twilight in the comic books.
Females can be written really well, the problem is if they show weakness at all or draw backs there are people who are over sensitive and refuse to see the struggle is what makes a story interesting.

Probably you like to self-insert yourself in male holes.