Happy now, Sup Forums?
>"Magic is magic in this movie. It’s not something that’s explained away scientifically. It’s not something that’s easy to define. As magic should be. Magic should be mysterious. There’s mystery to magic and there’s mystery to the tone of the movie. Mystery is a good thing."
mcuexchange.com
damn where is that user that kept insisting doctor strange would be science stuff? how BTFO is he?
"Flash won't time travel" tier BTFO.
YES!
>Magic can not be explained away with science
>science explains things away
I fucking hate this trope perpetuated by charlatans and retards.
What if magic is always changing so you cannot explain it the same way twice?
>Dr Zoom
I'm convinced that was bait
Then it is unusable. Obviously, if you can get any results, there's consistency that can be reproduced and studied.
Even everchanging something is likely to have patterns that can be examined.
>Even everchanging something is likely to have patterns that can be examined.
Except there isn't. What now science bitchboy?
Go read the newest issue of the Christian Science Monitor.
>It’s not something that’s easy to define. As magic should be. Magic should be mysterious.
This is even worse than magic = science. It's the opposite end of the spectrum. Magic needs limits or else you have bullshit like One More Day.
That's a relief. I'm not opposed to the idea that magic could be studied semi-scientifically (though it would probably not be the best way to study it, if the magic is anything like most fictional versions I've seen) but the ide of explaining it AWAY with words like "quantum physics" or other things familiar and comfortable to out current scientific laws seems a bit diminishing of magic as a concept.
God I hope this movie doesn't suck. The Director's track record isn't giving me much hope, though.
Hopefully if it does suck, the suckage doesn't overshadow the psychedelic eye candy.
Did the Illuminati made this movie?
Look at the Russos pre-MCU filmography.
They didn't say it didn't have limits. When they say "explained away scientifically", what they mean is not that it's impossible to learn it's rules through testing, they're talking about that trope where something seems magical, and they use some kind of pseudo-scientific jargon to tie it to modern science concepts.
Shh, quiet you.
Pardon my ignorance, but who/what is a Russo? I'm not finding anything on Wikipedia or imdb.
There is no happy middle ground, especially considering Marvel doesn't know what they want to do with magic in their actual comics.
If you let magic be unique and special, you end up with a universe where it has to hide, be super rare, or have some sort of 'magic and science are antithesis' situation. Because if you don't, no matter how good Tony Stark gets at building stuff, some guy with a piece of his hair in another dimension could just do some voodoo and destroy everything Tony has. Which isn't a good story.
That's magic's big problem. You have to put it into weird unexplainable boxes to make a good story. Marvel has NEVER figured out magic's box. So magic is only ever good in short arcs or one-shots or what ifs.
Here's a hint: they're brothers.
Who apparently have nothing to do with the Doctor Strange movie? What am I missing here?
Midichlorians.
Oh wait nevermind, I get it now. They made some shitty movies and then made the Captain America movies. Not really an improvement
What do you mean "a universe where it has to hide"?
>Captain America movies are bad
Nice mém, do fries come with it?
The average citizen in the Marvel universe is aware there are helicarriers, and men that can build suits of personal super armor, and a guy who can create weird flying ship things even if for some reason he still can't cure cancer.
But magic will still be 'unbelievable'. Even if there is a rather mainstream hero who uses magic, the average citizen in the comics won't believe that is the case.
Because magic can't be normalized. It has to be in the shadows in a universe like Marvel.
Unless something has changed in this newest Dr. Strange series (I'll admit I haven't gotten to reading it yet, even though I want to), Strange doesn't have raving fanboys/girls like Tony does. There aren't magic heroes who do. They can't be big personalities. Because the world isn't allowed to believe in them at large.
Magic vs the doubting thomas is too built into what they do.
Fucking Thomas. Why is that guy always a dick? Is it because he got beat up by Mary Sue?
I've never actually seen them, I just wanted to shitpost
However, now I see that they were heavily involved in Community and Arrested Development, so that's pretty cool. I don't see the comparison to Derrickson at all, though. Russoa were hit or miss with some flops and some major successes (mostly their TV work) whereas most of Derrickson's movies score below 50% on Rottentomatoes and just scream suck. I'm excited for the movie and hope it will be good but I'm not still weary.
holy shit I stroked out on that last sentence
>but I'm still wary
It'll be fine user. Marvel Studios don't let their directors run loose with their "creative visions".
So this pretty much ensures that this movie won't get released in China, right? They're pretty hard on any media that inspires occultism, superstition, rebellious behavior against authority and other shit and I really could see this movie falling in that line easily.
No one thought the guy whose biggest credit was the live action Scooby-Doo movies would be able to make a good Marvel movie either.
>Because magic can't be normalized
If magic WERE normalized, it would lose that mystery that they're talking about trying to preserve in the OP.
The thing about magic, is that it taps into the nature of realities themselves. This is why it's best for it to remain as protected and hidden as possible, in order to prevent chaos being loosed on the world. It has to remain "arcane". If a single evil wizard could be a threat to the entire reality, what could 5,000 do?
We'll never know.
Because every single magic plot has to be about one single evil wizard, for this exact reason.
There are three magic plots.
Evil wizard
Evil demon
Uncontrolled evil magic.
Just recycled with different faces. And while a lot of plots can be summarized into real simple elements, it gets real obvious with magic.
That's why magic based series can't maintain solo books. When Cosmic marvel books were taking off, Marvel tried to do something similar with their magic. There was a book that featured rotating stories of different magic heroes, we had some teams suddenly dealing with magic problems.
Didn't last, and it didn't take off like cosmic marvel did. Because Marvel's magic is underdeveloped, because while it is vague there just aren't enough plots you can run.
It'll be fine for this movie because he alone is going to be dealing with magic. Like the X-men in the comics, it is going to feel like no one else in the MCU even knows magic exists, and ALL the magic will be in Dr. Strange movies (maybe some in Black Panther depending on how they run it). But in the comics, marvel magic is just disappointing.
Doctor Strange introducing real magic [though you know there will be some throwaway line about it being quantum physics, interdemensional energy etc], Ghost Rider is coming to AoS and Ironfist is in the works. Also Thor 3 is gonna deal with Ragnarok and the afterlife etc.
Are you guys ready for magic in the MCU?
>Because Marvel's magic is underdeveloped, because while it is vague there just aren't enough plots you can run.
Doesn't most of it derive directly from extra-dimensional deities and Gods? I understand it better than I understand DC's magic. If someone wants to explain that shit to me, feel free.
I'm still waiting on them to acknowledge souls and the afterlife, And I'm wondering if they're really going as far as to wait until Thor: Ragnarok and the Soul Gem to do it.
Yeah, in Marvel you typically invoke some demon or god and use their power.
Mind you, these beings, who exist in an infinite number of other dimensions, tend to not have any defined power level against one another. So it is about as good as a handwave, just that occasionally you can have the crisis of someone attacking your power source.
Maybe. If so, why do you care?
You a nipnong cat-eater, anón?
They might touch on it a bit in AoS when Ghost Rider shows up.
Jed Whedon said in an interview that they can do some more magic shit this season, but they can't really explain how it works because that is Doctor Strange [and upcoming movies] job.
>Maybe. If so, why do you care?
Because if that ends up happening they'll be extra careful with how they deal with the concept of magic and such in future. China is the second biggest market and studios are going to start censoring stuff so that shit could get released in China. Leads to lack of creativity.
Right, but in at least the older Strange comics, he was accessing specific boons and abilities he had. Like the "Shield of the Seraphim" and the "Crimson bands of Cyttorak", so while he slowly learns more techniques, you have some idea of what to expect so it's not narrative bullshitting.
Wait when was it confirmed Thor 3 had the soul gem?
The current Doctor Strange run, while pretty bad in terms of characterization, has a lot of neat magic stuff in it. Lot's of magical items and spells, other magicians from all over the world make cameos.
It's pretty neat, but it reads like Tony Stark suddenly took over Strange's body.
>Cyttorak
Is this why Juggernaut was a mutant in the third X-Men movie? Because Fox couldn't use the deity?
Was it not? I guess it was just rumors and speculation. It's believed that the Time Gem plays a role in Doctor Strange.
They have done ok so far with powers like Loki and Scarlet's Not everything about the MCU revolves around how predominant magic is.
It's more of a theory.
A lot of people think Heimdall's eyes are the soul gem, because he see's all the souls in the universe, and his eyes are gone during that weird nonsensical vision Thor has in AoU
Loki is Asgardian science magic.
Scarlet Witch is all science.
He's a mutant in the third X-men movie because anything else would have confused the average movie goer who is there to watch a movie about mutants.
That, or because it's easier to weave into their existing mythos.
But yeah, the being that empowers the Juggernaut is the same one that provides some of Strange's spells.
I like the scene in Sif's first episode of AoS, where she tells Coulson touch screen tablets are archaic tech to Asgardians, but later straight up says Loralei uses dark magic to control people.
Magic is in the MCU, it's just that Marvel was playing things safe, trying to ground shit for their first few movies. After Guardians, and Civil War you can tell they feel much better about doing crazy unrealistic stuff for their movies because people are digging it.
Dr. Doom movie when, motherfuckers
See? Thanks for proving my point.
They can still bullshit their way around magic good enough for them to release Most of their flicks to nipnongs. Even if a couple of Strange sequels don't make it that far.
Plus, Deadpool proved well enough that capeshit doesnt need chinese money in order to make tons of cash.
Whenever Marvel gets the rights back.
Basically I was actually expecting them to give an explanation about magic. Who knows, maybe I'm worrying about it for no reason but after Suicide Squad and Ghostbusters not getting a China release I could see studios being extra careful.
What about Shuma Gorath who falls under "Invading god?"
Evil Demon.
>Doctor Strange introducing real magic [though you know there will be some throwaway line about it being quantum physics, interdemensional energy etc],
Holy shit can't you read? You're probably one the guys that said magic was going to be science because of an old ass interview and you're so butthurt because months of shitposting just came to an end
So, what do you think the after Credits Scene will be?
my vote's on Strange being told that the Ancient one is dying and has summoned him
Doctor Strange, Thor:Ragnarok and Black Panther were quoted by Feige as being important stories for Avengers 3 and 4
Nah, it'll be Mordo talking to Dormammu through Magic Skype.
Isn't Feige that thin lipped faggot who ruined ghost busters?
No no no, that was Paul Fag, Feige is Kevin.
What dude. I fucking love the MCU. But they constantly mention how the magic is still super science in a way. We're gonna get reaaaaaal fucking magic, but you just know there's gonna be a line or two trying to explain it logically. Like as Strange is learning he tries to rationalize it as quantum physics or something.
I'm fucking stoked that we're getting magic because you fuckers constantly bitch about shit like
>>oh its super science
>>the shows aren't connected blah blah.
I'm just saying lets be real. It's gonna be magic, but someone is gonna try and explain it in the movie.
Can you read? Did you read the rest of my post?
Magic is a manipulation of the universe that exists outside of definable terms, beyond the realm of laws that can be modeled with mathematics. It's a qualitative existence over a quantitative one.
t. A physicist
Why not just regular Skype? They're not savages, y'know?
There goes the Chinese market
Good.
If they aren't courting it, then they aren't.
They absolutely are savages if their password is as weak as "shamballa"
We kept ocassionally making fun of it and that user later resurfaced being all butthurt about being teased so it might have bot, who knows.
That's not how it works.
China does not autoban all films with magic. Many of their biggest domestic films of all time have been absolutely full of magic.
Cinemas are not forced to shut out films. They may shut out films on this basis if they feel like the film isn't worth it. Considering that it's an MU movie and those are money money money, this isn't likely to happen.
Money trumps absolutely everything in China. EVERYTHING.
>Mystery is a good thing.
For entertainment purposes. If you try that in reality, you get willful ignorance, like LOL MAGNETS HOW DO THEY WORK or some /x/-tier crystal shit.
Granted, science still has mysteries, but their just complicated enough that most people won't bother.
We're talking about a movie here
One More Day was bullshit precisely because of limits. No magic or science in the MU could heal Aunt May's BULLET WOUND, except for Mephisto.
Demons when?
But science is observation and possible logical explanation to the said observation.
Observation: Strange manipulating fabric of reality. Scientific explanation: it's magic.
So, where do cosmic beings with reality alteration powers like the Elders of the Universe, Galactus, the Watchers, the Celestials and the Abstracts get their power?
Are they science or magic? Is the Cosmic Cube magic? Are the Infinity Gems?
Could a Celestial kick Dormammu's ass?
...
Thank fucking God
Science isn't actually a thing, it's a description of the universe we observe.
The better phrasing would be magic isn't technology maybe. For instance sleight of hand isn't technology usually, though I'm guessing some tricks do make use of special trickery, be it chemistry or some other way to simply fool the audience.
But as there is no real "magic" there's no actual definition for it and thus sufficiently advanced technology beyond your understanding is always indistinguishable from magic.
Wanda's powers are connected to her emotions so very obviously not totally science.
Scarlet Witch is probably a hybrid ("daughter of science and magic"), and has to teach herself as no one understands her powers.
Strange was NEVER her mentor in the comics (Cap, Hawkeye, Agatha, and even Chthon have more claim to that), so why would he be in the MCU?
Stop being autistic, you aspenger driven fag.
Well, now wizards can't exist. Because anything they do to use magic will only ever work once, usually on accident, and they will never know what it is that they did that actually produced a magical effect because they can't do it again and there is no such thing as practice.
Magic that has absolutely no conceivable pattern of any kind is only one step removed from magic not existing at all. The only difference there is that sometimes a weird thing will happen beyond anyone's understanding or control, and we just sort of deal with it and move on because nothing can be done about it.
>Magic should be mysterious. There’s mystery to magic and there’s mystery to the tone of the movie. Mystery is a good thing
He nailed it. In fiction, what makes magic 'magical' is that it isn't explained; that it's suggested it CAN'T be explained from our current perceptual and temporal point.
All this just because some idiots on the internet cannot fathom that science and technology are not the same thing.
These are the real crux of it. It's not that magic can't be explained scientifically, but that's in the most literal terms; the process of scientific testing.
It shouldn't be something that's explained in the terms of any science that we know.
>rebellious behavior against authority
Isn't that what Winter Soldier and Civil War were all about, though?
Yeah. Also Harry Potter was released in China and that one was all about magic.
>magic staying magic
>magic is science fags BTFO
So there's hope for the Vischanti in MCU?
This, the issue stems less from the actual definitions of these things and more from audiences being defined by personal likes and dislikes.
There's really no point in having hour long discussions when it comes down to whether the person is ignorant, willfully or otherwise, of the ideas and terms they believe they're thinking of and whether they prefer the Wizards and Wands, Dungeons and Dragons type of magic or cultural occultism or some other third wave new age gibberish. The whole thing is just a maze and mess of mental obstacle courses you'll have to navigate.
Whenever someone starts a debate on what Magic should be, or any supernatural concept for that matter, consider that they really might just be saying what they want Magic to be.
The Seal of the Vishanti is not only in, it's being put on the Eye of Agamotto, so probably.
Finally
I really really strongly hope they're not going to chicken out on the magical patrons, and that the Vishanti seal is still associated with the Vishanti. It's probably one of my favorite aspects of Strange's mythos, all the weird beings of power in various dimensions and pocket realities.
Yeah but Is Marvel going to pass up on an easy as fuck Disney Easter egg?
I need to see the following happen on film
>Crimson bands of Cytorakk
>demons of Denak
>rings of raggador
>winds of Watoomb
>images of ikkon
>flames of the faltine
> Strange has multiple patrons.
> Wanda has one patron.
> Loki uses his own Asgardian power, I presume.
Aaron and Robinson have pretty much ignored that
Someone make an "it's magic, ain't gotta explain shit" edit with Strange now.
I'm not going to set that many expectations for the first movie. It looks like we've got Strange's magic energy shields, and some basic magic blasts, there's astral projection (shown in concept art), there's alternate dimensions, the Eye of Agamotto, a good chunk of the side cast, and possibly the Book of the Vishanti.
That's a pretty good start.
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