Dan Murrell explains my feelings about the DCEU so far quite well

Dan Murrell explains my feelings about the DCEU so far quite well.

"We now have a sample size of these DCEU movies. We have Man of Steel, we have Batman v Superman, and we have Suicide Squad. And it's obvious to me that the current priority at Warner Bros is to make movies that make cool-looking trailers. Is to make movies that give these iconic characters cool-looking frames to operate in, but that story is a very low priority for them. For some people that's enough. I understand that if it's enough for a Batman v Superman movie where the characters look cool, or Suicide Squad movie where Harley Quinn and Deadshot look cool. I understand that and it is cool to see these characters painted onto the screen in a very beautiful and energetic way.

But I have been a comic book fan since I was a kid and what made me fall in love with these characters isn't the way that they look. It was the stories that are told with them. I reference Mad Love with Harley Quinn and the Joker. It painted such a vivid picture of Harley Quinn and her sad and tragic obsession with the Joker. The fact that he would discard her at a moment's notice. Even at 11 years old, I realized what a tragic love story that was.

When they did the death of Superman, the way that that was portrayed and painted, and the weight and heft they gave that story, seeing Lois and Jimmy powerless to help their friend was powerful for me. Even as a kid, and still powerful for me as an adult. Reign of the Supermen, which I always wanted to see a movie, but apparently won't be one, is one of my favorite comic book storylines of all time because it's about identity and it's about the power of grief and how much people want somebody they lost to come back and how they're willing to put their trust in people that might not be the best and most trustworthy people in the world for the sake of hope."

>Continued

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=t6E1RWEfDsI
washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/state-dept-reeling-from-budget-cuts/2011/09/29/gIQAm87ODL_story.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>Continued

"These aren't just stories that look cool. These are stories that have something to say. That's what these Warner Bros DCEU movies, for me, don't have. They look great, but they don't have much to say, and if they decide to discard the mythology and the story of these characters, that's fine. They're still making money, but they're going to have to get used to critics and fans giving them grief because that's what we love about these characters. It's not their looks, it's their stories and if Warner Bros decides to embrace those stories, to go back to formula and really decide and figure out what people love about these characters and bring that to the screen, in addition to the amazing visuals, to the directorial styles that they already have, I think they will be surprised at the success that they get."

Here's the video where it came from.
youtube.com/watch?v=t6E1RWEfDsI

>implying Marvel movies other than Winter Soldier are good.

Lumping all the movies together as if they were one franchise is retarded.

I feel like trying to make a movie universe based off of Man of Steel is retarded.

>ctrl+f Marvel
>This fucker is the only result.
Can you be any more insecure? Nobody's talking about the "competition". WB is doing a great job of sucking all by themselves.

I feel like trying to make a movie universe based off Zack Snyder's direction and ideas is retarded.

Why.

>Literally WHEN I WAS A KID: The Video

>Discard the mythology
You can't really say they have been discarding the mythology though, like from an objective standpoint.

welp, I didnt want to be sober anyway

but they are. In the sense that they are trying to distill all of the best stories they have down into each movie.
Dawn of Justice did not need to be also the death of Superman story. It also did not need to include Doomsday in any form for that matter. Lex should have been enough of a villain, and i you need put LEX in a damn power armor suit to fight Superman.
And then they also wanted to have the fight scene from The Dark Knight comics. But also include Wonder Woman as well.

It spread itself too thin trying to do too many things when any one of them could have been expanded to fill a movie of its own

>but that story is a very low priority for them.

It's funny that this is so true, but probably not in the way the guy meant.

It's not as if WB pours time and attention into the script so as to get the coolest looking trailers -- they just straight up don't look at the scripts at all and then "wing it" in production/post-production. Until we get confirmation that WB is putting more time and effort into the goddamn screenplays of these things, I have no hope. Even Chris Terrio can't make a screenplay good if he's only given 2-3 months to write it -- from scratch.

>Dan Murrell

Who?

>Screenjunkies

Should've said so earlier, saged, hidden reported, called your stepdad

>Chris Terrio can't make a screenplay good if he's only given 2-3 months to write it -- from scratch.
That's not what happened. Terrio adapted the script from Goyer's draft.

>You can't really say they have been discarding the mythology though, like from an objective standpoint.
I've had to sit through 3+ years of people dismissing most of the complaints as "not muh X" and "It's an elseworlds it doesn't have to be like Y"

The fact that it just keeps coming up makes it damn hard to dismiss. Or would have if I still cared.

I was talking about Justice League, rather than BvS.

I thought the Terrio is good he is so le based XD meme had ended.

Please update your memedrive.

Six weeks for the suicide squad screenplay, and I'm supposed to believe that WB has a great plan and cares about story.

Students get more time than that for term papers.

>2-3 months to write
How long do you think it takes to write a script?

A good one or just one in general?

>Death of Superman was good

pleb

On a feature length film, from Page 1 to *final draft* (aka the draft that signals pre-production is nearing its end), you would expect about 4-6 months for a solo professional writer to do it. This, mind you, includes research time.

Rewrites and other things are a bit different, but when you're writing a script from start to a polished final draft, it takes a bit of time, which is why most writers -- even the ones who get consistent work -- only work on a few movies per year.

6 weeks could only get you to draft #2 or #3. 2-3 months (which seems to be the pace that most of these WB-DC films are being written) is maybe a little better, but only a fool would look at what's already been made and say "yep 2-3 months is all we need".

As a comparison, the screenplays/stories for many animated films are worked on for the longer end of 6 months -- sometimes 8 or longer. Of course, it happens in concert with storyboarding (which is *another* thing that these movies don't do), but the extra time usually helps iron out a lot of the kinks, particularly since a lot of them aren't writers by trade.

To be fair animated films are a lot harder to "reshoot" than live action so it makes sense that they'd want to make sure the script was more air tight before beginning production

Death of Superman is what ruined comics desu

Production Manager here, I work in commercials now, but a few years back most of what I did was on indie movies.

Three months is a decent amount of time for your first draft. A completed script needs at least another two.

I have no idea why the fuck SS was greenlit when they gave Ayer only 6 weeks.

>implying he implied that he liked marvel
>>Sup Forums

Iron Man didn't even have a complete script when it started filming, Iron Man 2 had maybe six months total pre-production.

WB wanted the film out this year. August was the best time to release. September and October are usually low performing months, November has Doctor Strange, Fantastic Beasts, and Moana, and December has Rogue One and Assassin's Creed.

WB's problems is that they have no plan. They're just reacting to the environment.

Dan Murrell must be the only one who likes Return of Superman.

>FUCK, Marvel is KICKING OUR ASS IN MOVIES
>I know! Let's make our own cinematic universe!
>But how will we compete?! They're already years ahead of us in terms of established continuity!
>Let's pump out several movies out of order canonwise with no regard for consistent quality!
>Great Idea Johnson! But who will direct us?
>My husband Zhack just completed his psychology 101 course and has been trying to find another job for our Olympic Swimming Pool! Lets make him.direct
>isnt that nepotism
>lololol who looks at executives on movies

You're the first person in this thread to even mention Marvel, faggot.

But there is nothing about Mos whatsoever that is anti-franchise base worthy.

>Dawn of Justice did not need to be also the death of Superman story.
Except it wraps up his story that they started in Mos of him trying to prove to the world that his intent is 100% good & noble.
>and i you need put LEX in a damn power armor suit to fight Superman.
That's retarded.

>These are stories that have something to say
They have done more with and said more about Superman and what it would be like for him to exist in a real world then all the previous 5 films combined.
And the Jesus crap has nothing to do with it.

>people still think TWS counts as a "good" spy thriller because it has some vague political and espionage elements

How many of these people have actually watched Three Days of Condor? Or the Conversation? THOSE are good espionage thrillers, the Conversation especially because it has almost no action.

>People are acting as if people have never written a good movie before without spending at least a year on the script

Groundhog's day was written in eight weeks, seven of which was just research and notes. Ferris Bueller's Day Off was written in a week. Iron Man barely had a script and most of the dialog was actually improvised on set.

The thing about, say, Groundhog's Day and Ferris Bueller is that the average scene of those movies is extremely cheap to film. So, you film a bunch of extra material and, whatever doesn't work, you take it out in the editing room. But the big setpieces (which Ferris had with the parade), you have to get right, which they mostly did.

Iron Man was something of a fluke, but at the same time, most of incomplete writing was with dialogue. The actual story of the movie had been worked on for nearly a year, which allowed the setpieces to figured out long ahead of filming.

So, in fact, there's not that much disagreement. Avoiding expensive reshoots (and expensive post-production) is the main reason to spend a lot of time in pre-production either crafting the script or storyboarding.

With cheaper movies, there's less of an impetus to overexert yourself on the script, as long as the story kinda/sorta works (particularly, when you have "more story" than you plan for the movie to actually contain).

With more expensive movies, the average scene will be like a setpiece -- it'll require its own special lighting, its own special effects, etc. And sure, you can shoot a lot if you want to, but you're not going to be able to put special effects on all those extra things, so you'll need to be picky about what gets the post-production treatment -- and even then, you'll have to worry about quality issues of those special effects.

All of which can be avoided by working on at least the story for longer periods and making sure it's rock-solid.

Done more, maybe.
Done good? no.

>shoehorning a whole saga like "Death of Superman" into the last 10 minutes of a movie for the sake of forced drama (lol he comes back in the next movie anyway) is not retarded.

>But Lex using powerarmor to fight Superman, a thing he has been doing it for 50+ years (and that Batman did in the same movie) is.

You know what's easier? Not meddling. We're at movie 4 (since GL was meant to be DCEU 1.0) of their meddling and it's fucked it up each and every time. And since SS seems to have shat it up again, they're gonna meddle with WW and JL. And when those two end up shitting up again? They'll meddle with Aquaman and Flash. And so on and so on

fuck off Grant

>Screen junkies

Fuck off OP

okay

Why would you want to start a movie universe based on a film that so clearly divided its fanbase?

Its not retarded. Lex would've been enough of a villain for this film. Doomsday was unnecessary and so was Wonder Woman and all their weird forced cameos. They could've found a better way to end the film.

Because Disney were making money and WB wanted their slice of the pie

Honestly, why are people trying to defend the obvious train wreck that is WB/DC? You'll only get shittier and shittier movies if you keep defending the shit they keep shoveling out. Demand something better and you might at least see some improvement.
A talking raccoon and a fucking walking tree are more beloved than the "world's finest."

If only they actually took it seriously like fans wanted. That was the biggest glaring problem with BvS for me. They wanted an Avengers level of money with as little effort as possible.

That's the executive way. Although at this point, if they didn't learn with GL, they didn't learn with MoS, and they didn't learn with BvS, I don't know what people are expecting

I'm expecting them to legitimately fail at some point but unfortunately everybody seems to be giving SS a pass solely based on the fact that it's a comic book film and that it's "fun" (although I personally found BvS to be more enjoyable) which is creating a lot of fuel for WB to continue burning. Cashing in on recognizable characters without putting much thought into it seems to be working out for them. Maybe not to the extent that they'd like, BvS didn't bring in nearly enough profit to justify the 500+ million dollars that they pumped into marketing and production and I'm actually thankful for that. I'd rather not see the DCEU continue further.

>Cashing in on recognizable characters without putting much thought into it seems to be working out for them

Hey, if it seems to be working with Marvel, it must be a good idea!

I just want to see the clusterfucks that will be WW and JL. I don't think anyone can pretend they'll be good movies at this point, they're batting 0/4 in their attempts at a DCEU

Okay, that's fair. I can count on one hand the number of Marvel films I find to be legitimately decent films.

After I watched the comic-con trailer for JL my first thought was that somebody got their balls chopped off at WB. It looks so much like a Marvel movie that ot actually makes me think they're trying to get away from their dark tones in order to appeal to more audiences. The WW trailer made me think it could go either way, utter shit or miraculously great. Either way I'm lowering my expectations severely so as not to be disappointed like I so frustratingly was with SS.

>These are stories that have something to say.
Their comic book stories. It isn't like it is high art or something. I mean Death of Superman was a stunt more than it was a story. WB/DC's main fault is that they just can't find the right tone for their movies and characters before they start making the movies. So you are left with a Superman that fans can't connect with or a SS movie where you aren't sure what it wants to be.

>defending Death and Return of Superman
Ban this sick filth.

They should've gone the Deadpool route and just had off-the-walls crazy bullshit the whole time. I know it goes against their already established serious tone for the universe but SS could've been the perfect opportunity for a fun movie. Instead they half-assed everything, put in characters that didn't do anything for the entire duration of the movie like Katana, Killer Croc and Boomerang and then had the audacity to use Harley Quinn as little more than a plot device to justify having Joker in the film just to have a character that general audiences don't need an explanation for since most of them are already aware of who he is. Not to say Harley wasn't well performed or written because she was but she certainly didn't do much that was imperative to the film until the last ten minutes. The interactions between characters, aside from the interactions between Deadshot and Harley, were poor and not entertaining at all. Amanda Waller was okay I suppose, I don't really see people saying much about her. Enchantress was dumb and her brother was somehow even more dumb. [Inferno died and nobody gave a shit in the movie or in the audience.] They kept showing Boomerang's pink unicorn or whatever it was and there was never any payoff for it. Essentially the movie just has problem after problem with it. Leto's Joker was the biggest problem for me. I hate it, the performace, his visual apparance, the way he is written. Everything about it.

I think it's this, mostly. Other comic book movies have similar problems with narrative structure as the DCEU movies, but if you don't establish a tone or what the payoff is supposed to be, audiences become unwilling to overlook it.

>WB/DC's main fault is that they just can't find the right tone for their movies and characters before they start making the movies

Well see, that's the problem. DC characters are so iconic that literally everyone has their own headcanon version of them and you are bound to piss someone off when you do something that doesn't pander to them specifically. It's an impossible task, unlike with Marvel where most people had no real idea what was wrong with the way they were adapted to the big screen. And now fans are so entitled that they bitch literally about anything. Batman has always killed in live action movies but only now is somehow complete betrayal of the character, despite the movie FOR ONCE giving you a in-story reason why it's happening.

It's basic and simple fanboyism. They don't really like the DCEU movies, they like that DC logo at the beginning and will defend these films simply because of that. A WB executive can release a movie about himself wiping his own ass but as long as that DC logo is there they will defend it.

We can't all be as enlightened as you, that is the bane of your existence

Indeed, it's like Trump, he's a mix of all the things people hated, or loved about the previous candidates. Rich asshole that loves to fire people and bankrupt companies like at Bain Capital with Romney, and a complete idiot with an unclosable mouth like Palin.
And now that the GOP sees the monster they themselves created, they are all trying to jump ship as fast as possible.

WB now has an edgy/emo Snyderverse that is infamous for bad plots, nonsensical or idiotic villains, lack of motivations, and terrible editing, their unofficial slogan is: do not watch these in theaters, wait for the blu-ray "ultimate" cuts.
If fanboys want to stick with this for four more years before realizing they should flee the sinking ship, that's kind of their own fault.

>being this pleb

Guardians of the Galaxy was a shit movie. Ant Man was way better.

Are you going to vote for Shill so she can keep fucking up the world like she did with North Africa? Please find other news sources apart from comedy shows.

I don't want to make a new thread for this, but maybe this question is somewhat related to this thread.

I've watched Batman: The Animated Series, The New Batman Adventures, Batman Beyond and Superman: The Animated Series. I enjoyed them all, but I'm having doubts whether of not I should continue on to Static Shock, The Zeta Project, Justice League or Justice League Unlimited. Are these shows on par with the earlier ones quality-wise, or should I skip them?

WHEN I WAS
A YOUNG DCFAG
MY FATHER
TOOK ME INTO THE COMIC SHOP

HE SAID, SON, WHEN YOU GROW UP
WILL YOU BE, THE SHITPOSTER OF THE COMICS
THE TROLLING AND THE KEKED

>Even at 11 years old, I realized what a tragic love story that was.

Yes, only Zeta is the possible skipable one

In 2011 the State Department's budget for 2012 was cut by billions by Republicans. But keep pretending like that had nothing to do with why they couldn't have decent security.
There's a reason why that argument is never pushed on substance in any debate, they'd be shooting themselves in both feet, then playing Russian Roulette with the remaining bullets.
washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/state-dept-reeling-from-budget-cuts/2011/09/29/gIQAm87ODL_story.html

>bad plots
The dcceu plotsvhave been god toer tho and so has their villains.

...

>Death of Superman is a saga now
Nigga you just went full pleb like seriously get some actual literature in ya.

JL & JLU are fantastic, not sure about the others.

>I'm having doubts whether of not I should continue on to Static Shock, The Zeta Project, Justice League or Justice League Unlimited. Are these shows on par with the earlier ones quality-wise, or should I skip them?

Static is fine, Zeta Project isn't very good, but is mostly just bland

Justice League has a multipart structure, so every episode is padded a little bit, but it's solid enough.

Justice League Unlimited is sex.

Prove me wrong.
Shannon's performance blew Stamp's out of the fucking water, Ultimate cut Luthor makes Loki look a pathetic 'tard and Enchantress is more memorable than every phase one villain combined.

>They look great, but they don't have much to say

Dude if anything BvS had too many things to say

1.- How humanity would react if contacted with the supermen
2.- How the powerful would fight their newly adquired irrelevance with all their power
3.- How the vigilante justice can be seen just as pure villany by an outsider
4.- How the search for justice can destroy you and lead you to a way of revenge

But yeah it's the DCEU so the official meme it's that it's bad and to stop talking nerd shit I guess

Thanks, guys. I will check Justice League and Unlimited, then. Might go back to the other two shows later.

Zeta and Static Shock are kind of their own things. Not necessarily bad, but definitely a different animal than the rest of the DCAU. Justice League is good, but it takes them a while to figure out the team dynamics and make the show "work" consistently. JLU is excellent.

...

>god tier tho and so has their villains.

Listen, Enchantress's plan was to literally build a big light in the sky, something done in IM1, Fan4stic, and basically every video game. It's generic as hell.

Zod wanted to terraform earth when any other planet could have worked, but fine, he was a petty shit.

Luthor was a merry prankster giggling to himself as he outsmarted other characters written as fools. And then he let himself get mindfucked by Darkseid.

Thank you, as well.

>Shannon's performance blew Stamp's out of the fucking water,

He was unhinged and seemed to be the only actor aware what kind of malarkey he was in. He probably gives the best performance in the film, and comes across as more sympathetic than Superman and many other characters.

>Ultimate cut Luthor makes Loki look a pathetic 'tard

No, he's a vibrating chihuahua cackling at his own intelligence. His plans require Batman to be dumb and Superman to be indecisive.

And 99% of people save the theatrical cut.

>and Enchantress is more memorable than every phase one villain combined.

She has maybe five minutes of characterization, and made a big lights show. Her opportunity to be memorable was squandered in the butchered editing.

No,Enchantress's plan was to wipe out the current infrastructure and reinstated her and her brother as rulers of the world.
Pay attention to the movie you're watching retard.

>any other planet could've worked
But that's wrong you fucking retard.

>Zod comes off as more sympathetic than Superman
No he doesn't you fucking sociopath. How disconnected from humanity to even think that shit?

Why would Zod terraform a different planet? There's literally no motivation for him to leave Earth.

>any other planet could have worked

This is what Marvel does to your brain

Why is Aquaman an edgy Muslim?

Jesus christ

Enchantress is still more memorable than any Marvel movie villain.

MOS wasn't "Malarkey" you braindead pleb.

>The dcceu plotsvhave been god toer
Umm, no.

MoS had plotholes left and right. BvS was stupid in its plot. SS had a really shitty plot as well.

>plotholes
Listen buddy, you don't actually know what plothole is. It's not your fault, nobody really ever sat you down and set the facts straight.

...It's Jason Bourne

Alright.

So why didn't General Zod just go terraform Mars again? What was stopping him from doing that? Oh right, it's never explained.

i didn't find out that the winter soldier was an espionage/political thriller until after i watched it

>They have done more with and said more about Superman and what it would be like for him to exist in a real world then all the previous 5 films combined.
That's a real hoot considering that the aim of those previous 5 movies was NEVER to examine what the real world would be like if Superman touched down in real life.

It's Hollywood's baffling obsession with realism.

Frankly, I don't WANT an examination to the question of, "What if Superman were real?" I want a fun tone, with fun characters, and tight writing.

Why would he?

Yeah, no. As countless Loki tumblrs should tell you.