Redpill about ukrainian crisis

What really caused it?
Why is Crimea so important to russians?
How much Russia is involved?
What do they gain from it?

Other urls found in this thread:

nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar#Primair_en_secundair
hrw.org/news/2016/04/15/dispatches-kremlin-mopping-remaining-dissenters-crimea
globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

New map

I'll give you a clue. Noses.

Dindu nuffin.
Also, proofs?

Wait for the butthurt belt to come in.
They will tell exactly what and how it happened

>What really caused it?
Jews
>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Ports
>How much Russia is involved?
Heavily
>What do they gain from it?
The rest of Eastern Ukraine under their influence as a point of leverage in the affairs of Ukrainian politics.

>butthurt belt
Lel

>ukrainian
>ukraine

no such things

>What really caused it?
Russia (though Russian chimps in the Eastern Ukraine are the real problem)

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
muh NATO, muh bases, muh fleet (two and a half rusty soviet 'ships', to be precise), muh muscle-flexing, etc

>How much Russia is involved?
Russia is literally the main (and the only) force behind this crisis

>What do they gain from it?
see 2.

...

Russia never stopped being an empire.

>What really caused it?
Putin wants to show the world that RUSSIA STRONK.
>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Well, outside of the historal importance of the Kievan Rus' that Russia styles itself as a successor to (hint: the similarity in the names is not a coincidence), there's Russian speakers living in the area annexed, so there's a nationalist bent to it.

>How much Russia is involved?
Russia is pretty huge, so a lot of Russia.

>What do they gain from it?
Crimea. Also, showing strength.

Retard detected

>still butthurt about Bandera

The only thing that you should know Russia literally did nothing wrong.

>Still butthurt about Prussia

Being a libtard and being a retard are 2 different things.

thank you for correcting the record Ivan

>useful idiots assemble!

is it just ad hominem or is it projection?

where's the fucking proof m8?

No, not really

REEEEEEEE GIVE RADAR DATA FUCKING SLAVS

nice level of discussion tbqh

>Russia is literally the main (and the only) force behind this crisis
Bullshit!

As someone literally half a world away, what's your take?

Libtard chooses to be retarded, retard doesn't. That's why being a libtard is more retarded than being a retard.

Didn't the russians give us radar data but ukranians and Americans were like "nah we can't make it public yet" for like 2 years now


Anyway Russia has the right to annex novorussia

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Real importance is close to zero. It's a fleet in a 2x2 meters puddle. Maybe foothold to wage war with turkey, but it sounds fantastic.
>How much Russia is involved?
As much as there's evidences of new russian military in donbas.
>What do they gain from it?
Nothing. It's barbarian need for subjugating new territories.

i'm a Pole in Bavaria, m8. I just hate this edgy roleplaying.

>What really caused it?
Soros paid shills
>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Black Sea
>How much Russia is involved?
Very
>What do they gain from it?
Influence

>evidences
Cockhole, your friends promising you they seen Russian soldiers but their phone's battery died is not any fucking proof, especially when your president says there isn't a war with Russia.

>What really caused it?
US, EU etc meddling in Ukrainian affairs, trying to get them to join the EU and NATO, funding pro-western political groups, inciting unrest.

Think "Cuban Missile Crisis" and remember how the US reacted when Russia was on its doorstep. Now see how Russia is reacting when the US moves into its doorstep.

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
It has always been part of Russia. Ukraine is a relatively new country. Remember the Crimean War? That was between Britain and Russia, not Britain and Ukraine. Also, the Tartars - remnants of the Mongol invaders of Europe - lived in Crimea. Over the years they kidnapped and enslaved over 3 million Russians, so it's a bit of an emotional spot in Russia's history. The Tartar slave trade is almost unheard of outside Russia. They were a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire and after the Russo-Turkish war, Russia annexed Crimea and began deporting the Tartars. Tartars began to move to the Ottoman Empire.

>How much Russia is involved?
Quite heavily. They are providing significant artillery and reconnaissance support to the rebel forces (stories of Ukrainian heavy units being wiped out by massed fires in seconds). They are almost certainly providing weapons and materiel to the rebels.
Remind yourself that we cannot tell them they can't do this, as we are more than guilty of doing it ourselves hundreds of times in only the last half century.

>What do they gain from it?
NATO is moving ever closer, slowly creeping towards Russia's borders. Crimea has historically always been Russian - the historical and emotional ties - as well as being of vital strategic importance (Black Sea ports etc). They don't want a NATO country on their doorstep - Russia has always wanted buffer states after being devastated by so many deep (ultimately unsuccessful) invasions.

As I said, look at the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's essentially the same, except now the roles are reversed and it's Russia demanding the US back off.

they are living in the well-known buffer zone (draw a vertical line) just they forgot that

if anyone in the zone would like to make 'independent' decisions and try to pick a side, the west or the east clearly way... well that means war and the best case if it is 'just' local war and it wont be another ww

no one wants potent and idependent countries in the buffer zones. till that areas remain irrelevant and no-man's land/everyone's playgroud, the west and the east happy and none of them feel themselves threatened.

Go back and take Bavaria with you.

I agree with everything except this
>the main (and the only)

>what really caused it
Soros and american $

>why is Crimea important to the Russians
Black sea access + Russian people living there

>how much Russia involved
Depends they took Crimea and are sending aid if that means involved then they are alot. But in terms of war it is just Russian ukranians and Russian volunteers. There are even Spanish and French ex soldiers fighting with the Russians against Ukraine but that doesn't mean they are involved

>what do they gain
Russian ukranian parts

t. Ukrainian that thinks his country has any free will and is not just a piece used by the US/Russia.

>What really caused it?
Ukrainians themselves, because they want a realigment in their foreign policy towards EU and West instead of Russia

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Military base

>What do they gain from it?
Ukraine used to be important for the Russians because of identity issues. Moscow thinks its the heir of the whole Ruthenia and Ukraine is Small Russia (Małorosja). Also Ukraine is 45 million people, so quite a lot

You're an idiot.

The way I see it, and you may correct me if I'm incorrect, but I see it like the missile crisis with Cuba and America all those years back.
Europe and America want a strong foothold in Ukraine, and even have Ukraine on their side, so that they have leverage and some power to threaten Russia by being right on their doorstep, while they don't have any business there.
I can personally guarantee you however, that being part of the European Union will bring nothing good for any country whatsoever.

Ok, where do you think donbas takes bullets, shells, missles, military equipment, tanks from? All military factories are northier in kharkov. There's a powerful mage there, which can conjure up things?

well in my opinion someone is trying to turn ukraine into a second middle east. part of it might be provoking russia into a war or (which would be worse) provoking both russia and poland into a war against each other which would result in a world war.

let me give you examples. there was a video published of russian soldiers shooting to ukrainian civilians. the video is almost certainly staged, but it's one of the reasons ukrainins strated turning against russia. there are people writning on ukrainian websites about a polish conspiracy to destroy ukraine which is completely untrue. anexing large amounts of ukrainin territories would be against our national interest - one of the strenghts of poland is its homogenous society, having that big, strongly anti-polish minority would be probably even worse than accepting refugees in. there were reports saying that CIA was training and arming ukraininas. also it was interesting to me what the fbi user said, that the m17 plane crash was a false flag. these are the reasons why I thing someone is trying to bring ukraine into a war or make it a battlefield. but you can connect the dots yourself, I guess.

Partially true. Russia just took advantage of Ukraine's fuck up.

The Ukrainians were corrupt as fuck. Crimeans have been bitching for years about paying huge taxes to Ukraine, but then their roads never got fixes and their preference to speak Russian was stepped on.

Nat Geo even covered it back in 2010. Wasn't painfully hard for Russia to promise to fix what the Ukranians wouldn't and get Crimean support. Especially since Crimea is basically Russia's Flordia anyway. Its economy is run by Russian tourists.

The Maidan just gave Crimea a way out, and Ivan ain't gonna say no to taking another old territory back.

>What really caused it?
Combination of NATO imperialism and CIS imperialism.
>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Sevastopol, if they intend on holding the Black Sea they need to hold Sevastopol.
>How much Russia is involved?
100%
NATO is probably 75% involved as well, but they don't outright attack Russia.
>What do they gain from it?
They prevent a NATO mushroom state from existing on their door step and they intended to sweep through Ukraine and take control of the large military production assets in Ukraine.

It would be a massive boon for the Russian military and economy.

Yes

They didn't give us anything usable. They claimed that they deleted everything.

I like how quickly you forgot how during a certain КOTЁЛ Ukrainian soldiers were allowed to leave it only upon handing over all their useful equipment to the Novorossia's soldiers.
But yeah, while Russia does send them a lot of stuff, there isn't a single actual, on-duty soldier in Ukraine. Off-duty? Yup. Advisors? Supposedly, yes. Actual soldiers, whose current main duty is to kill cockholes? None.

'the West on the doorstep' is just an excuse

if the ukrainian government would stop pandering to eastern russians without pro-western maidan this chimp-out would still happen

Lol what? Even in our report about mh17 they talked about Russian radar images so they have been used

The Crimea is important to Russia because it gives access to the black sea, in which the water is deep enough for deep water ports and oil rigs so russia is able to get their oil out of russia, because what use is oil if you cant sell the damn thing.

The reason russia had to annex it is because russia knew that the US, EU, UK we're trying to make the Ukraine join NATO to counter the reason above because its apart of the whole plan by the US, UK and EU to destablise Russia.

Russia didnt want to wait around because the Ukraine could join NATO at any moment and Russia annexing it would be an act of war on the Ukraine (and the rest of NATO).

The rabbit whole goes deeper with the Syrian Crisis as the plan by the US and other western goverenments to destabilise Russia by toppling the Assad's (Putins mate) regime and installing a western friendly puppet government and allowing for Western friendly middle east countries with oil access to the mediterrainian (another deep water source perfect for oil ships) so the UK and EU dont currently have to keep buying oil off Russia, and Russia would become poorer by not having anyone to sell to.

Its clear to see these efforts currently coming to fruition as the current oil price is being driven down by the US to its lowest in years.

Its only a Short term solution for the west as eventually they will need Oil (the west) and the only who has it is Russia as they're stock piling it waiting for the price to come back up.

>It has always been part of Russia.
Riiiiiiiiiight.

they're being played like pawns, they just don't know it yet.

Pretty much a good surface motive, plus what Russia has done for South Ossetia and Abhazia is respectable, considering the state that the Georgian occupation left it in.

you forgot the part where Russia actually started the war in Ukraine which led to thousands of Russian deaths and even bigger support of NATO

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?

It is only important as a warm water military base. It's 82F grad today. Russia's wealthiest billionaires own massive dachas (summer homes) in Crimea. They never wanted a developed economy or industry there. The oligarchs deliberately wanted to keep that area relatively poor for a steady supply of Tartar maids, drivers, butlers and gardeners. Russia could have built that Kerch bridge long ago but deliberately chose not to.

Eastern Ukraine once had factories, industry, now it looks worse than Chernobyl, the gas and water lines are ruptured underground, the infrastructure is shit, the airports destroyed.

What else is Russia shopping for?

I am utterly convinced it was the Ukrainians, false flagging to make the Russians look bad. Why else wont they give us radar data? Why else would the USA claim their satelites saw everything, and not release a thing?

It was the hohols, I tell you.

Remember when Russia was closing and warming ties to Europe and Western world in the beginning of '10s?

... and then Ukraine happened.

>What really caused it?
Kievan rebellion, possibly with American support, overthrew the government. Eastern and Crimean people refused to accept the new government and new constitution.
>Why is Crimea so important to russians?
Their Black Sea fleet is based there
>How much Russia is involved?
They're now the major trading partner and provider of humanitarian aid to Donbass, and probably also provide cheap or free arms and training.
>What do they gain from it?
The new Ukraine is super friendly with America. Russia wants American forces as far away as possible.

Not the primary radar data, which is what we needed. Hence "usable".

That was what the Ukrainians claimed.

>As someone literally half a world away, what's your take?
Careful asking "Ukrainians" on Sup Forums. Crimea still comes up with a Ukrainian flag.

>Kievan rebellion, possibly with American support, overthrew the government. Eastern and Crimean people refused to accept the new government and new constitution.
and now the east is a degenerate hellhole occupied by bandits
I don't think people there wanted that

>Their Black Sea fleet is based there
which is
A) irrelevant
B) a total joke

>major trading partner and provider of humanitarian aid
!!!

>The new Ukraine is super friendly with America. Russia wants American forces as far away as possible.
by pushing Ukrainians to support the West? nice logic

>I like how quickly you forgot how during a certain КOTЁЛ Ukrainian soldiers were allowed to leave it only upon handing over all their useful equipment to the Novorossia's soldiers.
So they still can't end bullets from that time?
>there isn't a single actual, on-duty soldier in Ukraine
Oh, wow. I thought they all should be with big inscriptions "russian on-duty military" on their back.
I could show a lot of youtube videos with them, but you don't know russian anyway.

basically ukrainins right now are acting nuts. if there's a danger of war hanging over you, then what do you do? do you seek allys or make even more enemies? poland was always supporting ukraine, but now, at the moment they might get swallowed by russia, they start provoking us as well. they start anti-polish movements, discriminate polish minorities, they proclaim as heros the scambags responsible for mass killings on polish people.

That map basically aknowledges that Danzig and Breslau are German clay.

Tы бyдeшь cильнo yдивлён, cвинoлюдинa.
And again, they do get a lot of stuff from Russia, it is just that implying your shitty soldiers didn't flee letting them get everything is outright lying.

Tы Укpaинeц? Зaчeм пpoтив Poдины?

The Ukrainians claimed their radar installation malfunctioned. Both the Russians and Ukrainians have changed their story several times, they're both lying shitbags.

Better map

What is not primary about footage of the place where mh17 crashed? That doesn't make any sense? if Russia and USA both shared their satellite images which USA probably did not then that should be enough for further progress. I don't understand why you are talking about "primary" are Russian images secondary or something? Does not make any sense

morality >>>>>>> communist pseudo-nationalism

nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar#Primair_en_secundair

Primary data is important because its the raw, untampered traffic, footage etc. Secondary data could have been manipulated.

But that guy is confusing Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine refused to give us radar data, Russia gave us radar data but not satellite footage.

>especially when your president says there isn't a war with Russia
That's only because Poroshenko doesn't have the guts to make it official.

>I am utterly convinced it was the Ukrainians, false flagging to make the Russians look bad.

Is today opposite day? The Russian spetznaz are the ones who invaded with their unmarked uniforms so they could lie to the world. They lied about the tanks and artillery. They lied about shooting down the airliner. They make false accusations that Ukraine troops commit atrocities when it is the Russian kidnapping and torturing civilians.

hrw.org/news/2016/04/15/dispatches-kremlin-mopping-remaining-dissenters-crimea

If I heard raw data I would have understand.

Thanks for explaining

Ik lees het zo wel even

t. soros funded russian dissident

yep, i second that

>What really caused it?
Soros funded Maidan.

That's only because an actual war with Russia will crush your economy, and once the /war/ begins, not the separatists and Ukrainian army tossing shit at each other, Russian military would stomp yours easily.
>false accusations
>literal whole batallions of volunteering neo-nazis
You're a fun guy, bet you only watch CNN which during the Georgian war used footage of Georgians bombing civilians and said it is Russians attacking poor little Georgia.

>Poland - cede territories
>Russia - take territories
Every fucking time i marble at Polish butthurt, even when they are splitting Cuckraine together with us.

It is prime vacation real estate. Absolutely beautiful, you would've taken it if you had the opportunity.

No one has mentioned Ukraine is having a rise of right-wing extremism/facism

There is a bit of precedent in Europe to try and nip that stuff before it starts

we didn't draw our current borders, blame the jews

They're probably both to blame, from the shit making the rounds I guess it's the fucking Ukrainians having used MH-17 for its radar shadow with another plane; this was in turn followed by an inexperienced or ill informed Russian AA battery taking the plane out (manned by Ruskie volunteers or separatist cunts). Hence all the finger pointing and refusal to hand over damning radar evidence by both parties involved.

CIA disinfo, how are you today?

t. 16-yo Lars Stevenson, expert in identity politics

>Russian military would stomp yours easily.
and after that they will cuck us like chechens

>literal whole batallions of volunteering neo-nazis
cry more

No, the Russians never gave us raw primary data, as they claimed to have 'deleted' it due to our government not requesting the data, which is illegal under international law.

>right-wing extremism/facism
t. POCCИЯ 24 correspondent

how's that a bad thing anyway?

Do you even know where Gdańsk is? I agree about the rest, they can have those shitholes for their refugees.

well bandera is a form of facism

The globalist run west has had a world war in the pipeline for a long time. Ukraine is mostly about improving Russia's positions in that war, giving them a buffer zone and a black sea port.

It's a defensive move.

It's a bad thing to me, but going into that is off topic.

Point is one can see why that would be something that concerns Russia.

>What really caused it?
The West

globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

Daily russian shill thread?

...

Because it is their clay that was stolen from them.

>Why is Crimea so important to russians?

Because it has been Russian for hundreds of years, and the people living their are ethnic Russians as well as speak Russian...

>this

...