So, when individuals say that you couldn't make a successful Superman game or translate the Arkham formula to Superman...

So, when individuals say that you couldn't make a successful Superman game or translate the Arkham formula to Superman, what do they mean by this? After putting just a few minutes of thought into it, most everything from the Arkham games could translate just fine to a Superman title.

You have Batman's Detective Vision, which allows for him to see through objects, hear voices and radio chatter, etc. This is easily replaced or replicated via Superman's X-Ray Vision/Spectrum Vision and Super Hearing. Batman's Grappling, Gliding, and Batmobile usage could be translated to Superman's hovering, flying, and super speed. Riddler trophies replaced with Mxyzptlk. Conroy and Hamill replaced by Newborn and Brown.

Another thing they mention is "Supes can't be damaged!!" But that's not true. What about Lex in his Power Armor? What about Atomic Skull? What about Parasite? What about Livewire? What about Silver Banshee? Cyborg Superman? Doomsday? Fucking Lobo? What about all these people? Oh, but then they say, what about just the regular mooks? Shit, idk, maybe Lex Luthor invented some synthetic Kryptonite that allows Supes to take damage from regular thugs.

So, Sup Forums, tell me why won't a Superman game work again?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=mIU9yC2cq14
youtube.com/watch?v=GcSaqU0kMhY
youtube.com/watch?v=UiP_-R4p9LA
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>"Supes can't be damaged!!"

Honestly Red Sun light or Magic are easy fixes for this.

I don't know, he was fine in Lego Batman 2

Or just, you know, villains who are as strong as him, which isn't rare at all.

I don't get it at all. There's plenty of games where you can fly and plenty of games where you have super strength. And the invincibility doesn't matter since in most games these days, including Arkham, you might as well be fucking invincible anyway.

Shadow of Apokolips and Superman Returns may have been rank shit, but if you just took those games and added the amount of polish Arkham has you'd have a great game.

I think a good Superman game is possible, for much of the same reasons that you stated.

On the other hand, the combat should be NOTHING like Arkham combat. Fuck that shit.

Give me something more like one of Platinum's games tailored to Superman or Zone of the Enders 2.

Can someone recommand me a good Supes game? I liked Death and Return for the SNES every other one I played was shit

If you cite mad max, the arkham combat could work but you'd still have to come up with some bullshit that somehow makes random mooks an actual threat that he also couldn't just sweep away with his every other power in the universe.

Make a sort of "sandbox" superman game where you get to retell his story with your own twists. You even choose his landing zone so you can have things like comrade supes or radical muslim supes.

The game would need a lot of focus on the world evolving and reacting to what you decide to do, like when other heroes/villains show up and what you've "done" so far in the world. You would play through the game as an adolescent, learning your powers, growing up and choosing when to reveal yourself to the world, so on and so fourth.

Would have a lot of replayability and you could play superman as he normally is or do any number of things. I'd play it.

You need an explanation for the generic mooks unless you want to take a risk and do a nothing, but boss encounters AAA game

It won't work because the proverbial well was poisoned by Superman 64. That game is still fresh in the minds of Sup Forumsirgins around the world.

DC would have to build up some good karma for the Superman franchise before they try giving him a game again

The Arkham series kicked off when Batman was riding a massive surge in popularity thanks to the Nolan movies

Superman needs something like that, but DC is adamant about marketing him poorly

Put him in space.

Alternatively, have Superman start out with Golden Age power levels, then work him up to crazier Silver Age feats.

>Game takes place during a Braniac invasion
>subplot about Luthor doing some shit
>thugs are replaced by Braniac's drones and Intergang thugs
>Mr. Mxyzptlk for Riddler Challenge knockoff
>Metallo and Parasite for gimmick boss battles
>Mongul for straight up fist fight boss battle
>post-game free roam where you can save cats from trees and kids from burning buildings and just generally be a good guy, and finish up some of the side missions without the main plot hanging over your head

Also if you're going to water down Superman's powers there's no point in doing a Superman game at all. Just throw some huge threats at let Superman be Superman.

Needs to take some ideas from Mario 64. When I was bored I just liked going into the first painting, getting the wing cap, and flying around. Maybe a Superman game needs to adopt a bit of GTA and be mission based but give you the option to fly around, explore Metropolis, bang Lois Lane, and just be Superman.

I'd love for a Sandbox game where you make your own hero. Like DCUO but with an actual story and there's not 100s of other heroes running around. I hate how every game that lets you make your own story in a universe has to be a MMO.

>polish
There is the magic word user, licensed games rarely get the needed time to be great. The Arkham series was an anomaly, hopefully it encourages other license holders to let developers take their time and create franchises instead of cheap cash-ins.

because it's easier to use other heroes than Superman

Have him sneakily prowl around and work undercover as Clark Kent investigating bullshit, then come in as Superman to take down the villain that he was researching. Like, as Clark, sneak inside Lexcorp and find out what Lex is working on, and its weak point, then find a depopulated point in the building where you can change into your Superman costume and actually fight Lex's robot/monster/power armor and what have you.

I had the idea that you'd mirror Justice League: Unlimited; He can take damage, obviously, but towards the end game, he'd just cut lose.

>Parademons
>Martians
>Red Lanterns
>Yellow Lanterns
>Orange Lantern constructs
>Phatom Zone inmates
>Brainiac drones
>Other kryptonians
>Intergang w/magic power armor from Apokalipse

IT IS NOT FUCKING COMPLICATED.

You just described DC Universe Online, user

It's already the best Superman game.

The game would be great if you removed all the MMO shit and focused more on gameplay. Just take DCUO and make it a singleplayer action game and you have the game I've always wanted.

>>Other kryptonians

That's the only real threat, please actually read comics.

Generic mooks aren't supposed to be the real threat, user.

they are still supposed to be able to defeat the hero/player if you suck

Just don't interact with the other players then lol. It's not really required.

I loved DCUO but it suffered from the same problem a lot of MMO games do where there is no real end game. The story mode is at least fun while it lasts.

All of the things that user listed can be threats to Superman. Please actually read comics.

>lanterns
>being a threat to Superman

In your dreams maybe

Hell, even in the cartoon didn't Fate kick his ass? He's super vulnerable to magic.

How would you do his health bar?

>He's super vulnerable to bad writing and other characters wanking

No I mean the way the combat and everything goes. That and flying around doing things really has no purpose.

Say what you want about the Justice League cartoon but writing was never the problem.

Yes, having literally every power isn't a threat at all.

Like any other, just put him against things that can hurt him.

JL was a great show but please remove your nostalgia goggles

What, like stopping the muggers and saving distressed citizens? You can get achievements for that and some money, even if it's hardly any. Also contributes to my point that DCUO is already a good Superman game.

How's it nostalgia to think the writing is decent?

Watching Unlimited right now.

Give him a health bar that regens fairly quickly, but the regen is tied to how much stamina you have. So if you don't properly manage fights you get into a situation like the Doomsday fight where an exhausted Superman's body just quits on him.

This way you can get some of those classic "Superman gets his shit pushed in and rallies" moments and every death feels like a grinded out battle.

Pic related.

Because everything about that show existed to glorify Batman.

I dunno, I think you guys are looking at Arkham stuff too much. Imo just make Superman along the vein of Shadow of the Colossus. Instead of having a horse you just fly around. Instead of arrows you have heat vision. Then you fight bigass machines or even straight up monsters that are out trying to destroy the planet.

Yeah but you don't get to play as Superman. And since it's an MMO there's no choice or really much story significance. I mean every Hero and every villain is going to have the same story. I'm not knocking DCUO at all user I really enjoyed it but what I'm saying is I'd rather have the same concept but in a more focused single player kind of game.

>most everything from the Arkham games could translate just fine to a Superman title.

but would you want a button mashing series of quicktime events to masquerade as an open world brawler game

plus i think you're forgetting the biggest barrier to this: DC does not want endless youtube footage, gifs, webms etc circulating of a filmlook game in which Superman flies around vaporizing criminals and bystanders with his heat-vision because the players are edgy teens who wanted Zod to win the fight

Superman has always been vulnerable to magic attacks. This is not new.
Dweeb.

They had to ride his coattails because he was by far the most popular out of the founding members. Hell he still is. JLU is better in a lot of ways because it starts to explore the whole league and a good number of episodes don't even have him in them.

Okay mom.

Exactly this.

Maybe make it kinda like Ninja Gaiden 2's health bar too, where the more damage you take, the less health overall you have as well. And your health could regenerate to a point, but taking damage whittles away your health bar overall.

Also fuck open-world bullshit. Structurally, it should just be a linear mission-based action game, not unlike Platinum's games. Focus the game on combat, saving civilians (which the game should be paced so that you're not doing that constantly, dammit), and the occasional puzzle to solve.

Give me extraordinary, over-the-top scenarios and boss fights to deal with, with deep melee combat, and I'm happy.

>Superman has always been vulnerable to bad writing. This is not new.

but I do agrre with that

Okay user that's understandable. I'd prefer a more single-player focused game too desu.

At that point it is just another Arkham game with a different character skin.

Because flying mechanics always feel terrible on a controller.
> B-but he doesn't have to fly!
Then pick a different hero, stupid. There are tons of them.

>Because flying mechanics always feel terrible on a controller.
It wasn't quite flight, but gliding felt great in the Arkham series.

Zone of the Enders 1 and 2 handled flight quite well.

They don't have to feel terrible at all.

My idea
>Red Faction Gorrila tier sandbox game, where all structures are loaded to be able to be destroyed in various ways
>Game takes place on an alien planet with few mega structures, a mining facility or something
>You can fly through everything and instakill people but the entire game is based of a point system
>So essentially the game awards you being a good superman and causing as little destruction as possible
>You need to be flying through windows, not walls etc
The game can be fairly large of a map with little things dotted on each area
>Have the main big bads/ bosses be people who can fight superman
>Have this point system allow you to unlock shit that will make the game easier to cause less destruction/ more as well such as freeze breath
>Make the reasoning that he was kryptonite poisoned or something and only after pushing his body can he start to regain abilities

Not completely polished but I am also not a game dev with a lot of money to figure this stuff out with a board

>Imo just make Superman along the vein of Shadow of the Colossus.
Agreed. No mooks, no lesser enemies. Just boss battles for every stage. Gigantic robots, Lovecraftian monstrosities. Multi-staged battles against singular threats. Trying to give Superman street level fights is silly, he should only deal with bosses who could believably slow him down.

I'd throw in some story element about the big bad using some machine to blot out the sun with clouds. Refilling your health bar involves flying above them to get some sweet sunlight. It'd be a pretty cool moment to bask in the sun as Superman for a little. It should only be necessary for when you seriously botch a fight though, no need to force the player to fly into the atmosphere after every battle.

Idk about that but there should be at least ONE level where the sun is blotted out by red sunlight or you're stuck in an area where there's nothing but red sunlight (maybe this could even be a Solaris, the Tyrant Sun boss fight, where you'd have to play as someone else, like Steel for a change or something).

And in that level, either you're stuck without your powers and you have to survive somehow or your powers are greatly weakened and you have to get out of there within the time limit.

The only game to have satisfying flying heat ray spam mechanics is touhou.

>Zone of the Enders 1 and 2 handled flight quite well.

it really didn't, it also had one of the worst cameras in action game history

Speaking of, there should be at least one on-rails flight sequence like something from Sin & Punishment 2 or Kid Icarus: Uprising. I really think something like this could be really cool and befitting for a Superman game.

ZotE2 was fine. Honestly Ninja Gaiden Black had a much worse camera. I have no idea how people defended that shit when the camera is as spastic as it was.

But anyway, ZotE2 really did handle flight quite well. The game felt more or less natural to control.

If anything, a Superman game should have two different 'states' that can be entered freely: on the ground and flying. The flight controls would need to be done really well, so that you could enter different speeds as you wished, and air combat would have to be particularly designed and tweaked so that it felt great.

Honestly I feel like a Superman game could be either the best thing ever or the worst game of all time. And well, we've gotten nothing but bad games so far.

Just have one button switch between flight mode and combat mode. Flight mode could play almost like a flight sim and combat mode would be a brawler. You'd probably need a lock on system. Really a modified take on the Xenoverse combat system could work really well for Superman.

youtube.com/watch?v=mIU9yC2cq14
Basically this.

>Just have one button switch between flight mode and combat mode.
Hmm, could work.

>Flight mode could play almost like a flight sim and combat mode would be a brawler.
Flight shouldn't be like a flight sim, because I'd imagine controlling a flying Superman wouldn't be much like piloting an aircraft.

>You'd probably need a lock on system.
Definitely. There should absolutely be a hard lock-on system, especially for when fighting enemies in the air.

>Really a modified take on the Xenoverse combat system could work really well for Superman.
Never played.

I was going to say that was the only real problem, but then I remembered this is the world where Netherrealm Studios not only made a Mortal Kombat clone with DC characters, they're making a fucking sequel to it.

I'm sure throwing in one or two new mechanics should be enough to differentiate a hypothetical Superman game from the Arkham series.

>not making Superman 100% invulnerable to literally everything is bad writing
please do not ever write comic books.

Flying in DCUO feels perfectly fine.

Not THAT far off from what I'm imagining, honestly.

I used the term flight sim pretty liberally there. Basically what I was think is switching into flight mode would basically send Supes straight ahead into the direction you're looking at, and from there you'd control speed and direction sort of like a jet. You could also use heat vision for offense, or simply hyper accelerate and fly through shit. You could fly right up to an enemy, tap to switch to combat mode, and seamlessly start beating their ass.

Eh, I don't like it. I'd prefer to have more control when in the air. Let me hover in place, fly sideways, and such, like a helicopter. Of course you could accelerate straight ahead and such.

I do agree that you should be able to lock on to an enemy to seamlessly switch 'modes'.

See, helicopter controls would be how I saw the combat mode going if you're in the air. Of course if you're on the ground it's probably a generic beat em up, but in the air you could float back and forth between enemies. In Xenoverse you use the sticks for 360 degree movement and the camera while two buttons control elevation. It works pretty well.

>So, Sup Forums, tell me why won't a Superman game work again?

what would be the objective of the game, the rules and loss conditions. can they make a video game story featuring Superman of course. but happens when his skill set is abused by players.

what's to stop a player from spamming freeze breath and using superspeed to mow down every threat. Do you then take away Superspeed, why would even use his sensory powers if had superspeed and could fly through walls.

And If Superman can't fly through wall, why can't he.

ect ect ect

to make an accurate Superman game you have to give him most of his powers and to make a playable video game you have to find a way to limit them.

>objective of the game
beat the main villain
>loss conditions
Superman dies, city blows up, bad guys plans accomplished, etc.
>what's to stop a player from spamming freeze breath and using superspeed to mow down every threat
Villains who are immune to freeze breath and fast as Superman
>to make a playable video game you have to find a way to limit his powers
Why though? IMO that's the problem with most the Superman games they've made. They all play it safe. I just want one developer to throw caution to the wind and make an off the rails crazy Superman game.

skip to like 1 minute
youtube.com/watch?v=GcSaqU0kMhY

You ask some silly questions, friendo, especially considering the game I was using for comparison was Arkham.

Superman wouldn't just fly into a building and destroy it, simple as that. And why must you limit his powers? Everyone he fights has stupid, over the top power levels.

Seriously, does Superman have that much of a stigma people immediately shut their brains off as soon as they see the name?

Nobody ever complained about Wolverine's healing factor getting in the way of gameplay. Nobody bats an eye when Arkhamverse Batman gets dozens of skills and equipment he's never had in the comics.

In the Wolverine movie tie-in game, which turned out to be actually pretty phenomenal, Wolverine had his healing factor, but could also be killed if he received enough sustained damage. And no one complained because it was a video game. It's like.. You mention Supes, brain shuts off, and if it's only one way of doing things.

Superman won't work for two simple reasons:

1. The Arkham style fits best with street-level heroes, and Superman is decidedly not street-level. You could sooner make a hit out of an Arkham-style Daredevil game than you could out of Superman. Magic would be the easiest way to get around this problem (magic mooks), but when you have a character who is as powerful as Superman, you're going to spend most of the game feeling like he's holding back. Whereas with Batman, you feel like he's fighting on relatively even ground.

2. The fact that Superman can fly would make moving around Metropolis pretty boring. Half the fun of the Arkham games was being able to glide around Gotham while using the grappling hook to boost yourself and climb up buildings. Same with Spider-Man 2 - half the fun was web-slinging. Just flying everywhere makes things a bit monotonous.

>Seriously, does Superman have that much of a stigma people immediately shut their brains off as soon as they see the name?
>Nobody ever complained about Wolverine's healing factor getting in the way of gameplay. Nobody bats an eye when Arkhamverse Batman gets dozens of skills and equipment he's never had in the comics.
Yeah, no kidding. It's always been something that bugged the hell out of me.

And hell, in the Arkham games, you have regenerating health anyway. It's stupid.

This would be the easiest way to get it right. But it says a lot about how powerful Superman is when the only way to make an entertaining game of him is to limit how much time you spend as Superman.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is about how a Superman game is too hard to make.

Just give the motherfucker a health bar and have magic mooks or gang members who use red sun and kryptonite weapons. Have disasters happening that you need to solve. Give him all his powers but also give the explanation that the bad guys are taking super durability pills like in Injustice.

It isn't fucking hard. Superman gets his shit pushed in all the time. He isn't a god.

>Gliding from one side of the map to the other is fun and not monotonous.
>Flying from one side of the map to the other would be boring and monotonous.
Literally what? They'd be the exact same thing.

Also: It was tons of fun flying around in this
youtube.com/watch?v=UiP_-R4p9LA

This. NG cameras are some of the worst in the genre. It's a boss battle in themselves getting it just right

>Arkham-style Daredevil game
Now THERE is a good idea.

The camera was really improved during boss fights in NG2, since you can toggle whether the camera focuses on the boss or not. Makes dealing with the other enemies much easier.

There was one. It was canned before Arkham became a thing.

>Brainiac clones
>Feels like Supes is fighting on his level.
>Intergang powered up by Darkseid.
>Parademons.

>evil Kryptonians
>shadow demons if you want to do a Crisis-sort of thing

Yeah, the possibilities really are endless to give Supes "regular thugs" that actually make it feel like he's not just punching paper. And even if you were to use regular soldiers... Luthor has outfitted them with a synthetic Kryptonite gas, which isn't as strong as the real deal, but "weakens" Supes just enough. At every encounter, you could see a soldier pop off a tube, and he could be a specialist class you have to deal with, much like the medics.

Right? This shit just take some imagination.

You could give the evil Kryptonians little servant bots fitted for military service. Kryptonian drones, soldiers in mechs, and so on.

For Brainiac's robots, you could make a shit ton of different types of robots, plenty of different enemy types.

It just takes some imagination.

Once again you run into the classic problem of "this weakling isn't Superman" . The only game archetype that can capture the street level drama while having the epic world battles is a visual novel

So, defeating enemies like Parasite, Cyborg Supes, even other Kryptonians like Zod or even the Eradicator, would still have people saying "this weakling isn't Superman"?

If they take the 2D Sonic formula and applied it to a Superman game then it could possibly work. '2D Sonic formula' meaning having Superman going at a speed that we could control. Sonic is considerably an extremely fast rodent, but he was very controllable and moved at a comfortable pace in his 2D games. Once they introduced us to the 3D Sonic games, then it was an utter mess to control him and it was a QTE button mashing nightmare.

The developers could dazzle us with properly used sound effects and filters to give us the implied sensation that Superman is flying at someone at a high paced speed to punch their ass. Honestly, I think an open world map like Just Cause's map that extended all the way up to the stratosphere for the sake of letting us gaze down at cities and use our Super Sense to detect crimes would be great. Imagine if VR could be used as well. But of course you'd have those Debbie Downers complaining about motion sickness and ruining it for all of us.

Also, what about letting us use the physics of jet fighter games? Those jets are implied to be fast as fuck. Yet they're still controllable? Why can't Superman's flying be just like this? Also, that one effect when he's flying fast where the camera pushes everything back. I forgot what it's called.

(these are ideas just for the flying by the way)

This actually just reminds me of what they did with the Superman Returns tie-in video game. Like, even with the stratosphere stuff. If you haven't played it, you should; it's not the best Superman game, but it's not awful either.

Like every other modern game

....pulsating eye strain effects on screen with deep heart pounding and heavy breathing. The more damaged he gets, the redder (or dimmer) the screen gets.

[stare] [scold] [fly away]
>You Fly Away
LEX LUTHOR will remember this.

It's not who he fights, it's about how much freedom you give the player to be Superman and how you guide a player along the path to complete the game.

who he fights and what he does is irrelevant, it's about finding accurate and acceptable portrayal of his powers and balancing it with what would be fun and challenging gameplay.

Which could easily be done, bro.

Telltale are hacks but I've always wanted a Superman game from them.

> Easily
The flood of shitty Superman games says otherwise.
Anyway the important part of supes deal with his moral fiber and message of hope, not how hard he can punch.

But how many of those said games were rushed or just held back by console limitations?

Name one villian who can't be beaten by the "lmao I guess I'll just stop holding back!" Meme.
Now explain having multiple of them running around without blowing up the planet in 12 seconds
DS and Apocalypse both were memed by supes