A black woman did her voice so it's not an Amos 'n' Andy sort of situation

>a black woman did her voice so it's not an Amos 'n' Andy sort of situation
>her over the top reactions to Jerry weren't any more over the top or more ridiculous than the white women owners of Tom's who reacted when they saw Jerry or another mouse
>her speech is admittedly stereotypical but, they never go too far with it and she never comes across as stupid or particularly ignorant

Also, I always had the impression that she owned the house(s) she lived in. She's supposed to be some family's maid but, I don't remember seeing any short with her that gave me the impression that's what she was. Really, I think it's the time the cartoons were made in that make people assume she was a maid. Well, I say cartoon logic can make us believe a lot of things like coyotes surviving anvil falls to the head, why would it be such a stretch that Hanna Barbera would have a (probably) lower middle class black woman owning her own house?

Why is the character such a supposedly racist caricature?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=gDfEbnDeqpI
youtube.com/watch?v=IFcG2N3O_Wk
youtube.com/watch?v=rQA_tOX9jE0
youtube.com/watch?v=NIxHfwhckcs
dailymotion.com/video/x51ver_merrie-melodies-coal-black-and-de-s_shortfilms
youtube.com/watch?v=JrqVppNsD5c
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionne_quintuplets
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Because the past is problematic.

Basically this. People have grown up hearing about the past as The Time When Everybody Was Racist so any appearance of a black domestic - even if they don't do anything offensive - sets off warning bells.

>Also, I always had the impression that she owned the house(s) she lived in.

I think you're just stupid then.

She did once refer to it as "my house" but I think she was just possessive of it, as maids often are to this day.

ah but now a days all maids are latinas making less than minimum wage working for whites and anyone rich

... yet no one gives a fuck. double standards huh? so progressive.

because these shorts were made in the 40s when black people were still considered not people. segregation and all that shit you know? damn good animation quality either way

>Whites AND rich

I wish I had a latina maid just for being white. I wish I had some money.

You people are idiots

>Double standard
I mean if a kid show had a Latina Maid that could be construed as an offensive sterotype not saying they HAVE to be necessarily people would probably bitch.
But really what? Are people supposed to not hire borderline slave labor to clean their homes and workspaces?

Because...?

Well her name was Mammy Twoshoes, other than that though she had a very lovely and clean home, a well stocked fridge and she was one of the snappiest dressers I've ever seen with all kinds of jewelry.

youtube.com/watch?v=gDfEbnDeqpI

Bring up the 1950's in a positive light to anyone in their mid-teens to late 20's and watch as they instantly pull the "but racism" card.

I don't think they would freak out. You can still get away with showing sassy Latina stereotypes, at least for now.

There's a "stereotype lag" where some stereotypes fall out of favor earlier than others. Black stereotypes were mostly shamed out of pop culture by the '50s but "Oriental" stereotypes lasted much longer.

The problem is there's a lot of overlap between what's stereotypical and what's true. Showing a black maid in a suburban house in the '40s is just realistic.

And the '50s were not very racist compared to what had come before. Eras where things are getting better actually get a worse reputation because they gave more publicity to the problem.

I never saw her as a maid?

I never saw this really is a stereotype rather than just a character being a character. She's just someone who takes care of a house she bought.

She was quite a bad ass.

but what about the red scare and height of societal pressures?
Or worse; boomers?

Tex Avery cartoons were racist, wasn't it?

I just thought she was just a home owner like so many other people in the Tom & Jerry cartoons.

I never saw her as racist because I never knew what black people were like to begin with.

On the other hand, strong unions, strong middle class, moderate government, more progress toward desegregation, and above all - TELEVISION.

There's good and bad in every era, we should learn from the good stuff instead of dismissing it all out of hand.

She's too real for stuffy ivory tower academics.
youtube.com/watch?v=IFcG2N3O_Wk

Tex liked to use the old gag where something explodes in someone's face and leaves them in blackface.

This gag was already old-fashioned in the '40s (blackface was considered old-fashioned and corny long before racism became uncool). But a lot of cartoons used really old gags from the silent days.

>tfw they phased her out and replaced her with these boring pieces of shit

>progress towards desegregation

>Last week was pretty bad
>Wasn't that bad
>What about all the fires
>They weren't nearly as big as the fires TWO weeks ago

Also I think modern tv is better only because we get tv from the 50s and another 65 years of shit.

But hey people used to be classy as shit....in popular photos.

Sup Forums, Sup Forums and Sup Forums were proof that TV was mistake

Where you from?

That's funny, I remember that stuff being used in Tom and Jerry when I was watching reruns in the 90's. Or when a trash can lid or fountain basin landed on Tom's head and a gong would sound and he'd have buck teeth and narrow eyes.

Well I mean like everyone else with but with a different type of melanin.

Its weird to make groups of people based on one feature someone cherry pick and pretend there's some type of psychic hivemind.

That was a great video thank you for sharing!

Now why can't Disney just do the same sort of thing and finally put out an official DVD/BD/digital release of Song of the South?

I never saw this, but I did laugh.

youtube.com/watch?v=rQA_tOX9jE0

If you watch Tex Avery's "Magical Maestro" you can see every one of those stereotypes being used because the singer turns into different races/nationalities depending on the song.

It's totally without malice but blackface gags were *really* old-fashioned for 1952. I don't know what the equivalent would be today... Polish jokes?

a US mountain State.

We don't have blacks up here.

She was also a cartoon character I would have never expected her to act like a normal person, especially not as a young child.

>Now these prejudices were wrong then and they're certainly wrong today.

They weren't wrong then.

But what if she WAS just the maid to a wealthy family?

Are they not allowed to show a cartoon with a historically accurate representation of people of the time? Not allowed to show a black woman whos able to hold down a job dealing with an asshole cat and mouse?

This usually comes up in these threads.
Racist caricatures in cartoons are kind of hard to get a grasp on out of context because unless you know it's being racist there's not a lot setting them apart from just being a goofy character. And even more confusing when it's racist characters projected over animals
youtube.com/watch?v=NIxHfwhckcs

From today's point of view they were wrong.

Mammy was GOAT. Fuck the haters.

>yfw you used to be named Jasper

...

I was just reminded of Coal Black and the sebben dwarfs.

dailymotion.com/video/x51ver_merrie-melodies-coal-black-and-de-s_shortfilms

As long as they show the cartoons uncut I don't really care what they say in the disclaimer. (I was glad when they switched from the Whoopi Goldberg video disclaimer to a text disclaimer though.)

As for why Disney hasn't released Song of the South probably for the same reason Warner hasn't released Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs. These aren't the most racist films out there but they'are famous and important enough that releasing them would bring a lot of publicity and at least some controversy. Corporations don't want to stir up controversy if they don't have to.

Song of the South isn't even more racist than the Indians in Peter Pan, but, again, stereotype lag. You can get away with having Johnny Depp as an Indian but not as a black guy.

For the longest time I thought her socks was her true skin color, and she was wearing massive brown oven mitts.

I was so innocent, I didn't even connect her talking to black people. I just enjoyed that it was funny.

The real unfair reputation goes to the Crows in Dumbo. Except for one of them being named "Jim Crow" (who isn't called that in the movie) they're basically just nice sympathetic black guys.

If Disney ever does that Dumbo remake I guarantee the crows will be more offensive this time than in 1941, just like animated movies today have some over-the-top stereotypes (not that that's always wrong).

It's really sad that people need to be reminded to not sperg out over something made over 50 years ago because it doesn't fit with their modern day views. Like, no shit things were different back then, for better or worse.

Oh come on that's absolute gold.

Also, and Rule34 of House Nigga Jerry?

Precisely. At the time that the cartoon was created, it was cutting edge progressive.

I've rarely seen a company be so straight forward and based about anything ever. Bravo WB. Try and fix your fucking DC movies plz.

>There's good and bad in every era, we should learn from the good stuff instead of dismissing it all out of hand.

Indeed.

THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

They'll probably be voiced by Key and Peele.

Man, so much this. Where the fuck is my yacht and country club membership? I'm white and that's apparently all it takes! Instead, I'm currently on unemployment hoping to fuck that my old job hires me back in two months.

yeah black people cant own houses

All the black people involved in Coal Black, who did all the voices, thought it was the funniest shit ever.

The concept of racisim had only recently been invented, and wasn't in popular use outside the soviets for much of the era.

>tfw I do

It's a good feeling.

They're so fucking unfunny.

youtube.com/watch?v=JrqVppNsD5c

Thing is, the internet has made it so that everything knowable can be not only always accessible, but also permanently recorded. Information has reached a plateau that can only ever grow horizontally - that is to say, it grows in amount, but not over time.

That's why you cannot make jokes about anything "Offensive" or "Insensitive" nowadays. Because nothing is ever forgotten. Nothing CAN be forgotten, because nothing can be erased from the records, which are accessible and open to even the lowest people.

And so, from now on it will always be Too Soon. It will always be That Offends Me. It will always be "C'mon, folks! It's 「CURRENT YEAR」!!".

My favorite is when people bitch about King Louie being voiced by a black man. I mean, a monkey in the jungle voiced by a black man, what a horrible racist old fuck Walt was, right?

>They weren't nearly as big as the fires TWO weeks ago
And how is that not a good thing? It means the fires are getting under control. Most states go through this shit every single year and yes, having the annual fires at 50 or 60% contained is a cause for some celebration. Beats the fuck out of them just ripping through neighborhoods.

Does melanin make people talk differently?

They probably did but given the context of the time, there wasn't much voice acting or acting work for races other than white. I probably will sound like a koolaid drinking sjw but they really didn't have much choice in the matter. They had to do it or they could easily be replaced.

They have good taste. It's a great fucking cartoon.

>Japs - Free!

Wouldn't it be worse if there were no black people in cartoons?

When I was a kid I was dumb and thought these guys were supposed to be the Fat Albert friends in bird form

thx 4 book m8

Y-yea, user

>Song of the South isn't even more racist than the Indians in Peter Pan, but, again, stereotype lag. You can get away with having Johnny Depp as an Indian but not as a black guy.
>savage people being portrayed as savages is offensive

I'm just saying omit the fires as a positive even if they're getting smaller.

I don't think they *had* to do it, they were all getting work elsewhere and voice acting doesn't pay much.

We can say from our point of view that some of the things black performers had to do were humiliating, but not all of them felt that way. A lot of black comedians used blackface (and when that went out of fashion they bitched about this new younger generation with their political correctness or whatever it was called then).

It's true that if there had been more justice black musicians would have got all the opportunities white musicians did and Negro League players could have played in the big leagues but they didn't go around feeling miserable and thinking they were oppressed all the time. Most people aren't like that, we just live our lives and do our work.

I think if the fires were at a historic low there would be cause for celebration. Like for most of Major League Baseball's history they would never use black players and in the '50s that was mostly over. It doesn't mean things were great for all but a few wildly talented people, it just meant that something really had changed.

That was a poor choice of phrasing on my part, they didn't have to. But if they wanted to voice cartoon characters I wonder how much of a choice they got for parts.

And I'm saying them getting smaller is a positive thing. You expect to go from a whole god damned forest burning down to all of the fire being extinguished completely? The steps and advancements along the way are vitally important and we really do need to acknowledge them. I'm not saying that we should look at it in a "hey, only half the neighborhood burned down, so that's good enough!" kind of way, but you're being utterly blind to real change and progress if you ignore the intermediate steps that get you to the desired destination. It would be exactly the same if in 20 or so years you pretend that we never had manually driven cars because they resulted in a lot of traffic fatalities so we don't talk about that. You're ignoring all of the design changes and safety innovations that led to the automatic vehicles in the first place.

Even today, how much choice does anyone get for their parts? You audition, and people cast you. That's it.

>Poor old Tom Cat.
At least Whoopie understands that Tom is the victim.

The Black Mammy characters are always cool why are they shitting on blacks' best stereotype?

Anyone who cheers for Jerry is objectively worse than Hitler.

>they're culturally disconnected from a majority of the black community
OK.

Just to make that short more terrible, the Quintuplet bit was from a real case of quints that the Canadian government stole from their parents and put on display until their parents got them back and then continued to pimp them out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionne_quintuplets

Everyone is (assumedly) given a fair shot to voice whomever they want. Back then it seemed like black people were offered black roles. I have done zero fact checking though so feel free to prove me wrong.

>Black people in whiteface, playing blackface.
The merry go round spins.

Simply employing black people would put the owners at red scare risk levels of progressiveness. And the studio's feeling on the shwartzes is well documented.

Progressivisim is a social construct, not a linear path of progression.

>Portraying black people as they were is racist
I don't really care too much about this dialogue, I'll continue to enjoy the fuck out of classic T&J.

This thread seems to pop up way too much lately. I don't think that many anons are getting into fights about Mammy two shoes with people outside of Sup Forums.

So let's be real OP, is this just autism or is this a fetish thing and you're hoping for pics?

You know nothing about how hollywood and the studios work. But that's ok.

They fight over this shit in colleges, and website terms of use fights constantly.

It's the same thing as Mr. Popo. People got so offended by his design they forget he was one of the biggest badasses in Dragon Ball. Dude ate a kamehameha and can move faster than lightning.

It really depends on the episode. They flipped quite a bit. Though Jerry was more commonly a dick so whatever I guess.

Well, it depends on what you mean by black roles. One of Orson Welle's first movies in 1936 was Voodoo MacBeth, which was an all black MacBeth adaptation. Obviously, it was all black actors set on a Caribbean island instead of Scotland, but doesn't that work for an adaptation? I wouldn't count that as just a black role, it's black people in Shakespearean roles. Same as Kurosawa's Throne of Blood wasn't just Japanese roles, it was Japanese people in Shakespearean roles.

If you're talking specifically about voice work, then I'm not sure.

Don't you know? If you are a Pee-Oh-See who doesn't want all the straight white males of the world dead, then you have Internalized Racism and need to be educated!

But every time I see it they use the same pic. That's why it pinging as weird to me. We have this discussion all the time and it's not like there's any actual discussion to it. As much as people like to bit about Sup Forumsmblr Sup Forums really isn't that PC and people are willing to forgive a lot of fucked up shit where there childhoods and nostalgia are involved. So anytime you ask Sup Forums "is something racist?" the overwhelming opinion is going to be no followed by more stuff that's questionably racist.

I don't remeber anyone forgetting who he was.....lol

> This pic was made by a a politically active white tumblrite

The irony never ceases to amaze me.

> but it's different when we do it!

Based on real tumblr posts.

Back in the 1800's, servants were tied to the estate rather than owner. When you bought a house, the maid, gardener, cook, and so on come with it and you have to renegotiate their contract.

You can see it in pop culture both in how Jacob Marley's maid became Scrooge's when he moved into Marley's house, and how in Harry Potter the old man taking care of Voldemort's father's house was still the servant despite nobody owning the house because he was being paid in funds off the estate.

>pointing out hypocrisy is the same as engaging in it

that like making a super hero called Watermelon Gold Nigga and denying it's racist because he has cool moves

Depending on how you do so, yes.

Watermelon Gold Nigga is a satirical character.

At least Watermelon Gold Nigga doesn't have lightning powers.