Thoughts on this man

Thoughts on this man

To have any thoughts on this man you'd need to read something besides /co like 80s Marvel or 90s Valiant plus some additional articles, books, blogs on the behind-the-scenes stuff

This thread is going to get filled with variations of "he could've saved todays marvel" and "lol remember avengers 200"

Wrote first race between Clark and Barry. Created couple of Legionnaries that I like. Made trains run on time at Marvel. Buttfucked Carol. Ruined Pym. Created Valiant. Got kicked out of Valiant. No idea what's he up to these days.
All in all, he did more good than bad. Except for OH MY GOD, HANK SLAPPED ME going on for last 35 years.

Newuniversal or whatever was a cool idea
and he wanted everyone to draw like Kirby which I don't oppose

He's a monster.

Greatest thing that happened to Marvel since Stan let Thomas take over.

He helped bring comics to unparalleled heights, but he also turned it into a strict business, and some of that late 70s creativity might have been curbed under him - hard to say whether it was because of him, or just due to the times changing.

I don't even mind how some creators jumped ship to DC, because it kept things fresh and even more great runs happened as a result.

There is no other period in comics that was so passionately requested to be collected in tpb/omnibus format than the runs that happened under his watch.

I feel like if everyone knew about what would happen within the next four years across the line, he never would have been fired.

He always looks like a supervillain in pictures

DEFIANT

We miss him.

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>Tommy Lee Jones will never play him ;_;

More like the bad guy of a Spy thriller.

Tried to save us from Carol. ;_;7

Evil hardass boss but he would never employ the Bendis so I am really torn.

As much as people say he wouldn't let Bendis work, remember that this is the man who also fired Gerber.

When I look into his eyes I feel a terror in my soul. I both love him and fear him. He is Destiny.

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I hear he actually made artists finish their work on time. I wish he would teach me his magic.

He directly contributed to the greatest era of comics in history by driving all his top talent over to DC.

Gerber was constantly late and would intentionally trigger Shooter's autism.

Bendis constantly turns in lazy fucking crap that ignores other books' continuity, which would drive Shooter up a wall. Plus Shooter is a control freak and Bendis is a spoiled baby, Bendis would walk before letting Shooter change his stories.

Is there a version for non-insects?

Helped an attempt to ruin Cyclops.

At least he tried to save Pym from the whole "wife-beater" stigma. Shame it didn't work.

sounds fucking great! Bring Shooter back to fix Marvel!

The only man who could see Marvel today.

The only man who could save Marvel today.

His work was a detriment to almost every character he worked on. Storytelling decisions he made just to temporarily boost sales by adding pointless drama, and how he dealt with characters he didn't like or thought weren't working, have stuck with some of those characters to this day. He's a complete hack.

He also somehow managed to get himself fired from Valiant, a company THAT HE FOUNDED.

Could you imagine an event getting delayed under this man? He would put them in death camps.

He peaked as a teen creatively

He knew what the fuck he was talking about and actually understood how stories should be told for them to be conceptually realized.

Try to explain to any Marvel chucklefuck these days the principles of pic related and they'll tilt their heads in dog-like confusion. How long has Marvel been operating without a true conclusion to a long-running story? It feels like it's been more than 15 years.

Shooter was simultaneously one of the worst and best EIC marvel ever had.

why don't you update your blog anymore, Jim?

that was just corporate backstabbing

Degeneracy would end with him in charge.

Jim "No gays in Marvel Comics under my watch" Shooter

He was just protecting the brand during the huge AIDS scare. You think 80s moms would buy Spider-man comics for Timmy if they thought it had fags with the disease from God appearing in them?

If Shooter came back, Marvel's yields would go dramatically up because he would open up the readership beyond the fringe SJWs who still buy what Marvel has to offer with its virtue signaling.

>Storytelling decisions he made just to temporarily boost sales by adding pointless drama, and how he dealt with characters he didn't like or thought weren't working
Nothing changed, then.

This is how it would go:

Bendis: I have better ending and need to push back Civil War II a month and add an extra issue
Shooter: Fuck your ending, jewboy. We need it done by Marvel Nower.

>Shooter is fired a month later

I will never buy comics for my kids because theyre full of women, blacks, gays, and the muslims who hate them. Its inappropriate and my kids dont need that trash.

It wasn't a mocking post. It's respect. There are too many gays in comics today and too many straight characters have been turned gay. Also, if you want kids to read your comic, they should be age appropriate. Today's Marvel has forgotten how to straddle the line between adults and kids. They market gay sex, feminism, and fore to adults and complete shit like Ultimate Spider-Man to kids. Older comics worked for all demographics. They were compelling and complex enough for adults, but appropriate enough for kids.

The thing is, everybody is so focused on TPB sales these days that self contained stories are becoming a lost art. Everybody wants to do the big 6 issue storylines.

He made Marvel's flagship comics better but made the non-flagship comics worse.

In the '70s, most of Marvel's flagship books like Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man were kind of spinning their wheels. Most of the best work was being done on weird little books like Warlock and Man-Thing.

The Shooter era finally made books like FF, Daredevil and Thor fresh again. But there wasn't as much experimentation with the smaller books.

As a writer, his Legion is fun, his first Avengers run saved the book after Gerry Conway nearly killed it, and his second Avengers run is terrible (Hank slapping Jan, etc). He seemed weirdly obsessed with omnipotent characters, even before the Beyonder.

I also didn't like his rule that the letterers couldn't use the traditional method of PUTTING some of the WORDS in BOLD.

He'd be a great Norman Osborn

Based Shooter.

Bring him back. Please

The argument today is that it's wrong to portray heterosexual romance as family-friendly and homosexual romance as age inappropriate, because what's the difference?

I'm not sure most people completely buy this, but more importantly they definitely didn't buy this in the '80s, when the idea of gay marriage hadn't become a serious thing and the Supreme Court still said it was OK for states to have anti-sodomy laws.

However, there was at least one gay character in Shooter-era comics, Captain America's pal Arnie Roth that J.M. DeMatteis created.

A perfect summary of the Shooter era: nice art by a young artist he took a chance on (Mazzucchelli) and new-reader exposition that's clunky even by comic book standards.

Shooter was the best eic ever because I'm too afraid to say anything else about him.

Gerber was only second to Kirby in terms of creativity at the time. It's a shame.

>He directly contributed to the greatest era of comics in history by driving all his top talent over to DC.

To be fair, one of the reasons they left was his new rule that writers could not edit their own books, and I think everyone eventually admitted he was right about that one. (Though eventually Marvel editors wound up all hiring each other to write their books, which is almost as much of a scam.)

Why'd he shoot Jim?

Would make a good Osborn on the big screen

Shooter? He hardly knew her.

Almost literally every Avengers story he wrote had them facing some all-powerful villain who can take them all down at once. He even had the fucking Grim Reaper capture all the Avengers.

This was a good thing at first because for too long the Avengers had been going up against lame villains, but he eventually took it too far.

But I think that's fair. He was a pretty good writer, especially on the Legion, and his tight grip on editorial produced arguably the best era of comics in Marvel's entire existence as some times creators need to be given direction, be reined in or be slapped down a peg: his decision regarding Jean Grey was ultimately the correct one for example and made the story that much better.

But obviously by the end of his tenure the pressure from the brass got to him and he became overbearing and generally has a very strong "my way or the highway" personality that goes all the way back to when he was a kid (as remember, he killed Ferro Lad because DC wouldn't allow Shooter to make him black). He can also be a bit self-serving in recalling things and fall into "I DINDU NUFFIN" logic though I think he also gets overblamed for shit by guys who personally did not like him or his style. I do think Marvel would be better with a Shooter-esque EiC who, while maybe not as overbearing, keeps a tight grip on maintaining consistency in character and continuity, adheres to the old "every comic is someone's first" mindset and expects actual quality from the creative teams and consequences for the characters in the story.

>He directly contributed to the greatest era of comics in history by driving all his top talent over to DC

To be fair, Byrne left because he was not only paranoid, but also a fucking whiner. He used to start shit with Claremont all the time, and Shooter would have to settle their shit.

These guys get it.

I highly recommend reading his old blogs, take them with a grain of salt the size of a bowling ball but it is interesting to see his side of things.

He also has some funny stories too, for instance he found out one of the secretaries was stealing all the cash sent in for subscriptions.

Colossus pulling the stump being the reason he left Marvel is one of those stories that sounds completely incomprhensible and "LOLBYRNE" until you get the full story: that it was drawn to be effortless as a show of Colossus' strength but Claremont wrote it as him struggling and this was kind of the last straw for a guy who complained that Claremont would routinely ignore his actual intentions with the story and just make up his own stuff.

This.

He was based. That pedo Byrne and that lesbo Claremont were whiny bitches

>he's to blame for Simonson Thor, Byrne F4, Miller's DD
The monster.

>But there wasn't as much experimentation with the smaller books.
There was already the Epic imprint for that.

Funny how Byrne paints himself as the goodguy in all of his "Why I left XYZ Comics" stories. But when you ask, or read about the other people involved it's just the opposite. And not only that but everyone else's versions match up.

>he killed Ferro Lad because DC wouldn't allow Shooter to make him black

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>Mr. Spock and the Eight Dwarves

Somebody listened to We Sell Comics latest episode...

The first two bullet points were things that got way the fuck out of hand at Marvel starting in the 1970's. Books like Starlin's Warlock, wherein the mandatory front loaded expository lump is delivered in an entertaining fasion are the exception.

Shooter would probably kick off most of the staff that followed the example of Bendis (Aaron and Hopless), keep Erwing on and make him the main writer, try and buy some the contracts that DC has on people like Abnett so that Marvel can have some of it's old talent back, while at the same time opening his doors to new creatives.

This would either put Marvel into a very dangerous position, where the entire structure could collapse due to the lack of experienced employees, or it would return them to their former power.

Stan's era was the best era, what came just after is pretty great too. Shooter's era isn't without merit, but it also gave us OG Secret Wars, which is execrable, and got Marvel's event treadmill to hell rolling.

Louise Simonson claimed that Shooter would explain how a story should be built in terms of Little Miss Muffet. Something like:

> Who (Little Miss Muffet)
> Situation (Eating her curds and whey)
> Conflict (Along came a spider)
> Climax (Sat down beside her)
> Resolution (Frightened Miss Muffet Away)

He also insisted he wanted every story to have some kind of inner conflict, usually described as "I can't... but I must!"

These are all pretty normal things to want a story to do, but after a while he just got nit picky about it and wanted every story to follow a formula.

Shit. I walked away to get some lunch and forgot to finish posting.

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He Fucked Claremont's Dreams of having a consistently well written X-Men. THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO RETIRE.

Like I said in another thread last month, it's a shame my favorite editor and my favorite writer were in very bitter odds.

>These are all pretty normal things to want a story to do, but after a while he just got nit picky about it and wanted every story to follow a formula.
A good writer can write formula and still make it entertaining and fresh.

>Based Ann Nocenti Doing anything this bad.
All that glitters is not gold.

>That time Shooter laid the smack down on Bendis written Spider-Man

Big Shooter is the hero we need right now