Why do women like her so much?

Why do women like her so much?

Strong empowered woman who don't need no man

Why do men like him so much?

Nihilistic with a wicked sense of humor

Women genuinely want to be abused and slut around so this lets them live out a power fantasy. It's the same as guys really.

I'm not convinced that they do.

You'd probably like Hitler if you only knew that within a generation he completely reinvigorated a country that was flushed down the shitter by a previous war. That's about as superficial as most normies are with Harley and her comic history. People view her as a well meaning bad girl rather than a killer and deranged fuck up that frequently turns down any efforts to reform in even the slightest of ways.

It's not a point of them liking Harley Quinn or not, it's that DC isn't giving them much else.
Harley is being shilled harder than any other female comic book character right now, including Wonder Woman.

Would she be a better character if she was relegated to her own universe/continuity?

Because she's a complicated character who came out a time when female characters weren't all that complicated, and she's easier to relate to for the average woman in comparison to say, Wonder Woman. It's really not all that much to it.

as a lady person who interacts with other lady people i think it can be broken down into a few main reasons.

1. nostalgia for the DC animated series, in which she was genuinely a goofy and memorable character.
2. muh female representation in media
3. bitch is easy as shit to cosplay as
4. muh 50 Shades of Grey/Twilight insert character
5. Joker dick

Frankly I don't have any love for any representation much past the 90s myself.

I can't blame them. As much as I love both Wondy and Catwoman, they've never been able to push the kind of number Harley does these days. Not even close.

I don't think they do, to me she has a "crazy gf you don't have in real life" appeal, assuming she has any appeal.

I've got theories.

First, edgy hot topic shippers who think being lolrandom and in "mad love" is cool.

Second, mistakenly believing she's the female version of the Joker, mistakenly believing she's supposed to be like a female Deadpool, or worse, both.

Third, not understanding what the character originally was, they thought of her as a badass female (rather than just competent villain flunky) to the point that writers started paying attention and actually turned her into one for god knows what reason.

Fourth, lesbians.

They do. I was talking to a friend a few hours ago, she said she loved Harley. I'm not convinced she would if they actually knew anything about the character.

Because she's a fun character.

they think they're just like her

I can't imagine so, as people like her for her relationships with Joker and Ivy. Other than that the only reasons I have found for women who like Harley is for cosplay.

>mistakenly believing she's supposed to be like a female Deadpool
>mistakenly
Have you actually read any of her ongoing? Because right now she is *LITERALLY* being written as a female deadpool.

If they really, really wanted to get the lesbian appeal, they would start selling Poison Ivy like mad.
Because she is one of those.

Key word was "supposed," but that's "muh" bullshit that we don't need to get into.

Harley is a badass female character. For some reason you fuckers love to forget that Harley is one of the more formidable Batman rogues.

>I'm not like all the other girls

Ah, they don't actually read the books. Gotcha

>For some reason you fuckers love to forget that Harley is one of the more formidable Batman rogues.
I think what we forget is, how is she formidable? I'd say she's less formidable than Firefly.

What does Harley even do? I haven't bothered with any of her books, and haven't seen her outside of various batman things.

Which is why they go with Harley instead.

I thought about that, actually, and IIRC she originally didn't do much unless it was a part of Joker's schemes, or she was showing someone up for some reason or other. Like, she could be badass, but her mind is too muddle for her to actually use it.

why dont they just give her some superpowers?

>For some reason you fuckers love to forget that Harley is one of the more formidable Batman rogues
If you count the entire catalogue of 750+ individual rogues that he's faced since his creation, yeah, she'll be in the upper percentages. In terms of name-brand rogues, fuck off. Penguin ruins people's lives in ways that Batman has almost no power to prevent, and I wouldn't even list Penguin as an A-ranked rogue. And Harley is way the fuck-

incredibly way the fuck-

below Penguin in the rogue's list. She has next to no direction or self-realized motivation in life. How the fuck is someone that aimless and one-dimensional ever going to be a formidable source of danger to Batgod? She wouldn't even be a formidable Flash villain.

>how is she formidable?
Besides the fact that she's supposed to be an olympic level gymnast.

She's not "badass" she just has plot-hacks so that heroes to act like total idiots around her, and also some kind of deus-ex god serum that was mentioned once in passing in her solo that allows her to be practically invincible and manhandle Kryptonians.

Also she's some kind of amazing combatant since she took gymnastics in high school, I still haven't figured out that one. Also apparently she's some kind of genius, even though she act like a total airhead and had to fuck her way through school.

Because some women are just awful people.

>Why do women like her so much?
People generally enjoy Calvin and Hobbes. Why? Partly because it's allowing you to return to a nostalgic time in your youth, sure; but also: because it's really really entertaining to watch Calvin be a compete shit.

Harley's hitting several sweet spots: she's a clown-girl (literally) and people like the design (hence the strong opinions on the costume change); she's got that Calvin-esque tendancy to be a complete shit and drive other people up a wall; the combination of being psychotic and plot armor means that she's pretty fearless; in recent versions she's also pretty badass.

So you've got someone who's either adorably loopy; or on the very hot side of damaged; or both that's also lethal.

And with the Joker + Harley thing you have to understand that young girls are often very drawn to the idea of "tragic" tales of love (remember that Romeo and Juliette literally die rather than be apart from each other) as well as the idea that the girl in the story is such a fucking snowflake that she can "tame the savage beast" or whatever. Seriously: look at fucking Twilight and you'll see a pattern.

Why are you guys so afraid of Harley being badass and popular? Is this all feminist like her?

She's a glorified groupie who quit her job as a doctor to he with some skinny asshole who dresses like a blacksploitation film era pimp and treats her like shit. They've done more with her but break it down and that's Harley.

Didn't they in Nu52? I could swear they made her Captain America level at the very least.

The penguin ain't got shit on Harley bruv. Let's not delude ourselves here, penguin is bu no means a threatening villain.

she represents all the things women want to do, say and be without any consequences. she basically dresses sexy / slutty , attacks people that piss her off (in a cute way) and seemingly, everyone loves her - men and women (poison ivy)
she's a likeable asshole so to speak. if she was fat , ugly and did the things she did she definitely wouldnt be popular

So nice you had to post twice?

I love how Sup Forums has decided that since women like Harley and made her popular that retroactively makes her a bad character.

>Also apparently she's some kind of genius, even though she act like a total airhead and had to fuck her way through school.
This one's pretty back and forth, I think. I lost track on where we ended up.

Maybe I should rephrase. Harley did some badass stuff, and proved she could be dangerous. But most of the time (at least before she became female Deadpool), she had her head in the clouds and just followed Joker aimlessly, and wasn't using her full potential. Any human being could potentially lift a car, but you don't call them super strong unless they do it regularly.

As for popular, I honestly couldn't give a shit. I just rather they kept her old characterization instead of whatever the fuck they're doing with her now.

>how is she formidable?
Depends entirely on which version you're reading/watching. In some of them she started out as an Olympic Level Gymnast before teaming up with Mistah Jay and learning all of his tricks and gags; and then in some of them she was literally turned into a Meta by Ivy via injections that made her both immune to toxins as well as being superhumanly durable/flexible/fast/strong (not so much in the sense of bending metal bars as in being even more 'bouncy' than Nightwing).

Also in some versions she's legit genius level IQ and was an actual Psychiatrist ... so you start to get into Hannibal Lecter levels of mindfuckery (in those versions it's less schoolgirl crush and more her Will Graham to Joker's Lecter where she was playing 4d chess and lost when Joker cheated by pushing her into the vat and converting her over to the Dark Side via chemicals).

In other versions she more clever/streetsmart (and was a TV Psychologist more like Dr Phil); and in yet other versions she's just a ditz with a crush on a Bad Boy.

What's wrong with Harley being a female deadpool?

Name a specific arc or time period where she was a good character on her own merits outside of the animated series. Just one.

And I will wish bubonic plague on you and your family if you pretend Injustice was a good thing for her character.

Aside from the fact that Deadpool already exists, nothing. I just liked it better when she was wrapped around Joker's finger. It showed us exactly how manipulative he was, and it let us get in the psyche of someone who was being controlled by a madman. Made for interesting reading. Feel free to disagree.

When Karl Kesel was writing her.

Crazy female in a abusive relationship = 99% of the women in the World.

I mean I haven't paid any attention to her outside of it, but her appeal is blatantly obvious in BTAS at least

To me that's just a one-note way of writing Harley.

Don't you have a roller derby practice to attend?

In her solo comics she's overcomed years of domestic abuse, become far more independent, formed a healthy relationship with Ivy, and is unapologetically herself.

>When Karl Kesel was writing her.
THIS.

And then fucking Guggenheim came along ...

>When Karl Kesel was writing her.
My personal fav. I especially liked the "Harley Vision" way he showed her seeing the world as if she were living in a cartoon.

Pre New 52, Ivy gave her some serum that made her ammune to poisons, gave her super human agility and I think made her a bit stronger.

New 52 version is just regular Human with pale skin

Probably, but I like what I like. Specifically, I like the "eternal, never ever going to escape" feeling the relationship gave off. An abusive relationship that was somehow both relateable and not at all.

I'm legitimately curious, not judging at all, how do you think is the best way to handle her?

Why are you calling her a lesbian?

Because if you want that why not just read Tank Girl?

Whores look to whores to justify being whores

>New 52 version is just regular Human with pale skin
Who is on the Suicide Squad and who, on being told that the Joker was 'dead', flipped her shit and took down an entire police station just to get to his (skinned and framed under glass) face.

TL;DR in Nu52 she's working that "being a serial killer means you're basically a force of nature" thing.

Domestically abused, "Muh representation."

Something something vat of chemicals enhanced something somehow

I like it when she shows that she isn't as much of airhead as she lets on and can think for herself. Bonus points of she can admit that her and the joker's relationship is toxic but she can't help because mistah J is so dreamy~

>how do you think is the best way to handle her?
Not the user you were talking to; but:

I prefer a combination of the Legit Psychologist + the way she was given a backstory in the animated series (when she was actually a conartist/Dr phil type tv personality). In the animated version they're clearly playing off each other than egging each other on; but she's also clearly got her own agenda (getting back at the people who took her off the air and eyeing the idea of writing a kiss-and-tell bestseller after the fact).

What I'd personally like to see is something like series Hannibal witch the whole relationship spanning several seasons on cable/netflix (but that's never going to happen).

But I also love the idea that maybe at some Level the joker loves Harley too and that it isn't just callus manipulation. To me the Joker being in love is something to be afraid of.

Fair enough, I like those too. But I like them as moments that happen once in a while, and predominantly they're too busy being in the abusive relationship or committing crimes, so that when they do act like how you describe, it stands out more.

I'd watch it. It might only work as a mini-series, though, so as to not drag on.

Which is why pre New 52 he tried to kill her because he was actually starting to develop feelings for her and didn't like it.

Did you own a half-dozen copies of Gymkata when you were a kid?

Are you saying that you didn't?

Female power fantasy

>It might only work as a mini-series, though, so as to not drag on.
I meant a Netflix style series that's considerably shorter than a network series in a similar vein to Jessica Jones with the time spent on her relationship to Killgrave.

You'd need someone with Anthony Hopkins/Jack Nickelson levels of charisma to sell it, though, because the whole selling point would be this very bright very independent woman thinking she was getting through while she was actually being played (but, at the same time, getting though JUST ENOUGH to register as a hair above "plaything" as someone who's actually ... interesting enough to keep around. Or, at least, see how far they could be pushed before they broke).

It's the big difference between Clarice Starling and Will Graham when it comes to Hannibal: Starling has authority as an FBI agent but she's not even close to being in his league (and they both know it); she just amuses him for whatever reason. Will, on the other hand, ISN'T scared of him and, thanks to his own gifts, actually *understands* him which is why Lecter goes to such lengths to try to bring him over to his side.

>he tried to kill her because he was actually starting to develop feelings for her and didn't like it.
There was also the story where she got annoyed at Batman for taking up all of Joker's time ... so she caught him and worked out a way to make his discarded plan work. So he threw her out of a window on the top floor (because HE's the one that makes the jokes!).

Let's just get Hugh dancy and Mads Mikkelsen to play Harley and The Joker.

>Hugh dancy and Mads Mikkelsen to play Harley and The Joker
GODDAMNIT!

i will not reply the pic to you

they do
Sup Forums doesn't read her comics

Its more along the line of Harley becoming popular has made Sup Forums resent her

>tragic but also zany
>sympathetic backstory
>abuse victims relate to her
>kills who she wants

Because women have shit taste.

I'm female so that makes me some sort of expert authority and spokesperson for all I guess.

50% nostalgia for the fun and wacky character from the B:tAS cartoon, 50% fantasizing about her and Ivy muff diving each other and rubbing their titties together.

Deep shit right

So women really love abuse

Joker in the cartoon wasn't hot at all and Harley fangirls started popping up then, I think it had nothing to do with the relationship/abuse and everything to do with "lol she's so randumb just like me (holds up spork)!!11" in the same vein as Invader Zim fangirls and actually a lot of the same people, lot of overlap

>dumb cunt who can only be attracted to an abusive douchebag
Gee, I wonder.

Neckbeard ham please.

She looks like a hooker on benzo.

Because she's an easy sexy character to cosplay and because she's edgy so more fun than wonder woman. Amanda Conner draws her in a cute way as well.

Women wants to believe that their batshit crazy side is somehow sexy and cute.

she's a fun character
theirs enough variety to gravitate towards what you like and declare that the rest doesn't count

I have always loved Harley. She's just so funny and tragic. Just sympathetic enough to make her interesting as well.

But, god, I hate her modern outfit. It looks so awful. Please put a hat on her at least, I can't handle the pigtails.

>women like character xx
>"They think they are just like her"

>men like character xy
>"They don't think they are just like him"

????

Also the manic pixie girl personality of being "SO RANDUM LOL" that they totally get. They are the cool fun girl that can have a good time no matter what!

Most of these girls are in their late teens and young adults so they need to mature up a bit to realize Harley shows how wrong and the manic pixie girl trope.

Surprisingly there are a few girls who do recognize that.

>cosplay

Probably the biggest reason. Girls love their cosplay, especially in movie premiere and its fucking easy.

Her whole thing is that she is a competent badass to an average cop or inexperienced superguy but to the bat family all it takes is one punch. Unless she teams with Joker or ivy. Its been a thing since forever before the New 52.

>men who like Batman have dead sons

She's got a nice set of tits and a great ass to go along with her gymnast physique. She genuinely cared for a guy who neglected her/used her. Stylish and fairly intelligent. She's what a lot of women see themselves as, at least in the fantasies they have in their heads. Plus her costumes are slutty enough for Halloween, so they can dress up as her and get plenty of attention.

LEGO did a study a few years ago about how girls and boys play differently. Boys, the study showed, tend to act as the narrator of the story when they play with LEGOs while girls would more frequently self-insert into the story.

LEGO determined this was part of the reason why they weren't reaching female markets as well because the women didn't like playing as blocky looking people because they were acting as that/those characters. Which is why we have the skinny female LEGO characters now.

So while it probably isn't 100% true that women liking a character is because they relate to the character, there's probably some research somewhere that could back that up.

lego is all about creative play though, cant take on the narrator role if you are reading someone elses comic book/movie/tv show

You can still see yourself as an outside observer, hearing/seeing/reading about the events. I know when I read comics I never insert as anyone.

Harley is a guilt-free way for women to enjoy the primal female fantasy of your lover being the most dangerous motherfucker in the tribe who can take whatever he wants by brutal force but still wants you and can use his violence to provide for you and protect you. Basically the entire reason for bad boys appeal. Muh securing provider drive.

And the Joker is a guilt-free way for men to enjoy the primal male fantasy of being that man who can do whatever he wants via violence without caring about guilt or ostracization or consequences. Basically the entire reason behind the action genre. Muh securing resources drive.

For women it's about the actually quite egotistic dark romance angle (hes so powerful but... he still wants little old me? *blush*) and for men it's about the power angle, which is why men just see the blunt reality of "well he's going to abuse you too so is that what you want?" and not "oh but I'm special he wouldn't go too far with me".

Note how they never show Joker abuse Harley too much in any media since then it'd be too real and lose popularity, he's only struck her a few times on panel and it's nothing compared to what he does to most people. But also note how her popularity goes down when she's not associated with the Joker, what both and men and women were hyped for in Suicide Squad was Joker being there (so men could pretend to be him and women could pretend to have him, but not feel guilty as they are just baddies in a comic book movie) which is why the main complaint is why did they cut all his scenes.

Obviously it's just a fantasy for most people but that's why fucked up people actually do stay in abusive relationships or just use violence to get what they want, they're shitty life has conditioned them to think as if they're in a primeval survival situation.

It's so surprising to me that there are men/people that like Joker as a person rather than just as a foil to Batman.

If you forget the fact she is a sex slave she is pretty tumblrine

Show your fucking tits or get the fuck off my board, cunt.

I don't think the general populace, outside of her rabid Tumblr fandom who are far from normies, sees her as "well-meaning".

Unless you'd count "she only kills people I don't like" as well-meaning. Hot Topic customers love that shit.