>"You shouldn't be here, Bojack!"
>Came on to Bojack twice, sober, pushed it after she was turned down and even went into the yacht without (spoken) invite.
>Went into detail about how she puts condoms on bananas, even mentioned the Arizona state consent laws when Bojack mentioned she was a minor.
>Didn't even get to have sex or anything before Charlotte walked in.
>Bojack shows up at her college, acts like he raped her.
Fuck Penny, seriously.
Will Charlotte kill Bojack, now?
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I agree. It's the one thing that really pissed me off in this near masterpiece of a show.
oh boy an /r9k/ thread, just what nobody fucking wanted
I think the writes legit forgot that small detail, like the rest of this season was alright but that detail felt wrong and nearly ruined the show for me.
Also playing thread theme
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How old was she when she came onto Bojack?
Young and/or lonely girls are often huge attention whores. She probably realized how messed up it was for Bojack to accept after she grew up.
i'm assuming she was like, 15, though.
She was 17.
She was 17, it was a plot point then in the moment
There were several ways the writers could have taken this route. I think the way they went about it was not the best. They brought Penny up out of the blue, not referencing much from last season and made the incident seem like Bojack actively tried to seduce Penny, ignoring the fact that Penny actively went after Bojack.
>not referencing much from last season
It was mentioned back in episode 1 when Bojack fucked the manatee journalist. It was not brought up out of the blue just for episode 11. They left it clear that it was on the back of Bojack's mind the entire time and only surfaced when he was drunk.
I was very enraged at that part. Yeah sure Bojack isn't the greatest person in the world but he got accused for something he didn't do and the show acts like he did it when earlier it explicitly showed that it was Penny.
>mfw saw penny acting like bojack raped her
So you guys don't think it'd be weird for her for the old dude she regrets creeping on showed up at her school out of the blue? Its like if all those embarrassing dumbass moments from highschool showed up at your door. Sure you willingly did stupid shit back then that doesn't mean you'd want to revisit it all. Don't be such fucking spergs.
>Arizona
It's New Mexico dumbass
>Makes a mistake as a teenager
>Weight of the consequences of the action eventually get pushed back into subconscious
>Bojack shows up high as shit at your college party, randomly, in a trenchcoat
>Painfully obvious he's been following or watching you
>"Wow penny's such a bitch"
Bojack never loved Penny, he's just messed up in the head since his fantasy of being with her mother is an impossibility.
If they actually fucked, Penny would've been even more emotionally devestated when she realized this and Bojack dissapeared afterward.
No good comes out of fucking bojack. No good comes out of even being mildly close friends with him.
>>Bojack shows up at her college, acts like he raped her.
>shows up at her college, acts like he raped her.
>college, acts like he raped her.
>college, raped her.
Most US colleges have sexual assault lectures as part of orientation. A big part of these lectures is denying women any sense of agency over their actions. Initially, Penny was totally fine, just the normal hurt from being rejected. Then, she was taught at college that her experience with Bojack must have been traumatizing. She may have been taught that if she didn't feel devastated by it, that must be because she was repressing those feelings; or because she had internalized misogynistic worldviews.
Thanks Sup Forums
She goes to Oberlin College, you think this is really that out of character for someone from that school?
So many Lena Dunham jokes the writing staff missed out on
fun fact: without a chance to explain himself, Penny could easily assume that BoJack had been stalking her for days, weeks, maybe even months.
So you're saying Bojack Horseman took a situation that wasn't that bad, and self-sabotaged it into a big pile of shit? Seems pretty in-character to me.
Bojack had been stalking Penny for at the very least days.
Those early episodes are weird to look back on compared to the rest of the series. I mean, there have been silly episodes since, but the tone is still entirely different
It's the ~50-year-old that seduced her at her Senior Prom by bringing out all the same romantic stunts he used to get in her mom's pants... He's obviously high-as-balls and smells like he's been on a month-long drug bender in the same clothes which are practically rotting off him.
Of course she'd freak out.
Also, her mother might have really dug in the "Don't do that shit! Bojack is poison!", which may have gotten to Penny.
I think they're complaining that it looked too one sides. It was weird and most likely uncomfortable for her once she realized what she just did and what was gonna happen but it seemed more like one of those moments Bojack is involved with something and people put all the blame on him. He is an asshole who can be poison to others but people seem to use that as an excuse to not accept blame when he was involved as if that makes them innocent in the whole thing. He being freaked out was a normal response but like someone else said they could have done the whole scene better.
I think her reaction was a failure in direction, not in writing.
The scene would have been completely acceptable if she sounded confused and freaked out that Bojack showed up out of nowhere. Instead the line came out like Bojack was a rapist who terrified her.
>a young white girl acts like a prick and play the victim
Nothing wrong here.
Its like you guys actually think Penny masterminded attempting to have sex with Bojack and it wasn't the other way around. He played her like a damned fiddle. He never had any intention of stopping her, it was all part of the narrative.
Wtf is wrong with world? this picture bullshit... Stupid sjw, crazy fraggin world.
>want to watch this show to see what the fuss is about
>can't get past the ugly furshit characters
she's basically a kid
>white
shes a deer
White-tailed deer
The Picture was supposed to be "Satire." and was taken down shortly after being put up.
Admittedly, I have unpleasant memories of a health class video about rape and teen pregnancy. Can't say it was that far off from the poster.
Bojack was literally stalking her. There's no way that could play out with them seeming to be on equal ground. If Penny had shown up out of know where hiding in Bojack's bushes she would have been portrayed as some psychotically obsessed crazy chick because that's what you are when you stalk somebody.
>animals=furshit
zoos must give you panic attacks
Yeah but if she was human she would be white. She is basically a white girl
No they didn't you stupid fucks. She literally says "I was 17 I didn't know any better!" which means she wanted the dick hard but didn't know he was such a scumbag for trying accepting his friend's daughters pussy.
Do you guys not hear words or something?
This holy shit. So many people seem to forget that Bojack was supposed to be the adult in that situation and turn her away.
So she's bound to have told Charlotte, right?
This, this is my main problem with the show.
Herb pls go and stay go
That...that actually makes a lot of sense.
This. It's not that hard to understand.
This is why you can't trust womemes.
>This, this is my main problem with the show.
That one scene?
More specifically how they'll have scenes like that where they treat Bojack like the only terrible person and pin all the blame on him when everyone else in the show is at least as much of an unfair asshole as he is. Except for Mr. Peanut Butter.
>everyone else in the show is at least as much of an unfair asshole
That's a bit of a stretch
All the main characters. All the guys who matter on an episode-to-episode basis. They all have at least one big asshole moment where they do the same kind of shit Bojack is always getting flack for. That specific enough for you?
An example would be.
They've all had their moments but none of them are consistently as shitty as Bojack. I mean hell intentionally sabotaging Todd's play has to be the most dickish thing in the show.
Here's a way to make it easy: remember the reason they're animals.
The writers wanted to have a visual representation of Hollywood being incredibly surreal, and the people like walking caricatures.
Someone suggested getting an artist who draws surreal animal person stuff to lead the design side of the show.
The next person went "Brilliant! We can use animal puns as filler jokes."
So just remember: they're animals to make living in Hollywood seem insane.
>disgusting humanoid animals with a shitty art style
>not furshit
It's not hard to understand when you're talking with adults.
They actually put it more blatantly in a past episode, Bojack stopped maturing mentally when he got famous, and his mother forced him to perform in front of her celebrity friends when he was a child himself. So as a result he has the maturity of a teenager, and even his growth previous to that point was stunted.
If that's not enough the guys that make the show said it flat-out, "Bojack was going to go through with it, and did it because he's emotionally still a teenager and doesn't think hiss actions fully through, focusing instead on what makes him feel good and what makes him feel bad."
They also said their writing process for new seasons is basically pushing Bojack further down, because they have no idea what his rock-bottom is or even if he's past the point of no return or not..
You have to remember that it's supposed to be surreal and make you uncomfortable.
Its a visual representation of how crazy people can be.
I'll give you two examples off the top of my head. If you want more, rewatch and pay close attention.
>PC fucks up Bojack getting roles in other movies because she pushes too hard in negotiations
>Diane during that whole bit where she crashes at Bojack's place
Also, there was an entire episode where Bojack was LITERALLY WORSE THAN HITLER because he bought the last box of muffins in a supermarket that he didn't have any way of knowing someone else had already picked out. Sure, he didn't handle the confrontation well, but the whole thing was way overblown.
Oh sure, I get that. I just mean that it's kind of crappy that on the rare occasions when he actually tries to do something good it fails and people treat him like Satan when deep down, everyone is capable of doing shitty things. Todd fucked Bojack over with the Mr. Peanut Butter movie, and even though he wasn't intending to do it, he still screwed Bojack pretty hard. If the roles were reversed, Bojack would have been portrayed as an asshole for unintentionally sabotaging Todd's breakout movie role.
And there are girls who are so fucking weird about what intentions they have. It's infuriating.
There's a lot of factors that you're ignoring in your gross oversimplification there, homeslice.
The first reason those policies exist is because there actually is a fair amount of sexual assault in college parties. Among other things. Because lets face it, they're a bunch of fucking drunk piece of shit brats without fully mature brains and many are without their parents and teachers hovering overhead for the first time.
The second reason those policies exist is because even colleges don't give a fuck about anyone or what happens to them, since they are indeed a business, the public perception is that they should. So those policies are in fact a public relations campaign rather than some policy. Because we're not a communist shit-hole, that PR campaign is worth its weight in legacy students. Sure a few dumbfuck kids get listed as sexual predators, but what matters is that you don't have a media field day which results in a few more girls sending their applications to another university, all because Dick and Fanny got a little too friendly in the dorm.
Its yet again a case of Sup Forums thinking capitalism and conservatism are BFFs. Capitalists, and therefor the only people who's lives really matter, follow the cash flow, and if there's money or in some cases lost, then your sense of justice is just paper in an overstuffed complaint box.
The staunchest, most conservative and respectable old white families would sell Caucasians from trailer parks to wealthy black Kenyans if they could get away with it.
>Bojack is a perfect show.
nah.
Season 1.
>Bojack is a hack who wants to get back into show biz.
>He starts to accomplish his dream.
>He starts to be happy.
>He destroys it with self destructive horse shit.
>BAWWWW WHY AM I ALWAYS SAD!
Season 2.
>Bojack is a hack who wants to get back into show biz.
>He starts to accomplish his dream.
>He starts to be happy.
>He destroys it with self destructive horse shit.
>BAWWWW WHY AM I ALWAYS SAD!
Season 3.
>Bojack is a hack who wants to get back into show biz.
>He starts to accomplish his dream.
>He starts to be happy.
>He destroys it with self destructive horse shit.
>BAWWWW WHY AM I ALWAYS SAD!
OH BOY I SURE CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT NEXT SEASON WILL BE LIKE!
This show has no real depth to it, its just a emotionally unstable asshole who never learned how to deal, so every episode will be the same as last, season 3 should have been the turning point, not the same shit.
but there are humans in the show....
Neither could fucking Jake then you asshole poster.
>This show has no real depth to it, its just a emotionally unstable asshole who never learned how to deal, so every episode will be the same as last, season 3 should have been the turning point, not the same shit.
That's why we like it.
Its exactly how clinically depressed self-sabotaging people behave.
Its like King Of The Hill. The vast majority of the humor comes from either relating to characters or situations, or knowing someone similar to someone on the show. If you can't relate to something in KotH, its a terribly uninteresting show without any remarkable humor.
Likewise, most people who like Bojack Horseman here on Sup Forums seem to be able to relate to someone on the main cast or have been in a similar situation that has been presented. You have it go in ridiculous places, but that connection is there to make the humor satisfying.
>its just a emotionally unstable asshole who never learned how to deal
But user, isn't that the point? That he is that emotionally unstable asshole, and that he'll always go round in circles?
Character arc, and story arc, if you think Bojack is going to survive many seasons when its just repeating itself then you need to look back to other shows that do the exact same thing.
Nobody wants to watch something that repeats itself over and over.
>50 year old guy moves in and becomes father figure
>Seduces you when he takes you to prom
>Nearly kills your friend
>Think you want him but feelings are confused
>Thus person in a place of trust tells you no but then agrees to it
>Mom kicks him out
>Family life never the same
>Finally move away for a fresh start
>He turns up unannounced even though he should've had no way to find you
>He's drunk and high and probably smells like ass, dick, booze and other assorted unpleasant scents
>Be creeped out and upset that he came after you for what you percieve to be no reason
Yeah, what an unexpected reaction
>Character arc, and story arc, if you think Bojack is going to survive many seasons when its just repeating itself then you need to look back to other shows that do the exact same thing.
>Nobody wants to watch something that repeats itself over and over.
The creators flat-out said the story is just the quest for Bojack's rock bottom. There's a point he can't escape from, and he's digging his way there more and more every season.
You noticed in season 3 that a lot of the traumas we've seen built up are starting to come back more than the traumas of his backstory in season 1, or the events of season 1 in season 2?
Each season he's going to be more and more buried in his own fuckups until he probably kills himself or overdoses.
Season 4 is already going to be unique, simply because this season ended without him mending any bridges. He drove every single person he knows that isn't dead away and completely burned the bridge that was his way back into the spotlight, while in S1 and S2 it ended with them having forgiven him and him trying to become a better person as well as having a new triumph ahead.
Simple: After Bojack left, the mother worked to convince her that what happened was unforgivable and all Bojack's fault.
You don't get my point. It's not about color or race, she's basically an white girl (steady student, bitch over pointless things and love to be seen as a victim and lie to get good conscious)
She basically acted like every early 20-something girl would act.
Would you let someone who's not very successful or stable and is slightly older than you fuck your daughter on her prom night after you reject him?
Especially after finding out that he put her life in danger repeatedly and almost killed one of her friends while trying to relive his glory days?
Most people, regardless of if its a father or mother, would have actually attacked him then and there just for the age difference alone.
Its not just the poster ,its the law. Because get fucked.
Bojack is plenty successful, but no.
All this only supports the theory that the mother poisoned the daughter's view on Bojack.
Not to mention twisting your memories of an event to remove yourself from blame is a fairly common thing for people to do in real life.
Hey, you want to change it? Either ban alcohol prior to the age where the brain is fully developed to make fully adult decisions, around age 25 or so, or try to change world culture so boys can feel as if they've been taken advantage of for having sex they regret then change society to view this as a major crime then start a campaign to try to get these boys you've made go from thinking "I really fucked up" to "I was raped" to stop feeling ashamed and report it.
Or, you know, shut the fuck up about stupid people being stupid in ways that don't affect you.
Why dont you start a change in society view where people arent allowed to bitch about things they dont like you literal autist
>Bojack is plenty successful
He'd only done two things to that point actually. A bad sitcom, and the worst sitcom ever made. The first season kept reminding the audience he's sub D-list.
That's a pretty substantial failure. To the point that going from being a child actor to managing a hardware store is a far more respectable life in comparison.
Are you saying I can't tell someone to shut the fuck up on Sup Forums for whining about society and gender politics in a thread about a cartoon?
Im saying follow your own advice.
Hey, you followed mine by insulting people who are complaining.
Why shouldn't I follow yours and bitch about the state of our culture? More specifically, the one that produced a complainer like you?
>falling for feminist propaganda
College females in first world countries are some of the safest, most pampered individuals in the entire fucking planet. They are actually LESS likely to be victims of sexual assault than non-students. The rape on campus hysteria is completely fabricated.
>They just do it for PR purposes!
False. How many private companies have kangaroo rape courts like they do in college? Basically none. It's not capitalism, but left-wing ideology entrenched at universities, which is actively pushed by professors and other staff in power. Shit like matress girl can only happen at universities.
>The first reason those policies exist is because there actually is a fair amount of sexual assault in college parties. Among other things. Because lets face it, they're a bunch of fucking drunk piece of shit brats without fully mature brains and many are without their parents and teachers hovering overhead for the first time.
>Implying that a woman can't be a fucking drunk piece of shit brats without fully mature brains
Also at what point did bring up communism? This is pure projection on your part.
>College females in first world countries are some of the safest, most pampered individuals in the entire fucking planet. They are actually LESS likely to be victims of sexual assault than non-students. The rape on campus hysteria is completely fabricated.
Well, yeah.
The thing is nobody gives a fuck if nine out of ten homeless women get raped other than nine homeless women. Specifically on a case by case basis.
When your friend or someone you see every day gets raped? You get the pitchforks and torches ready while you burn the suspects in effigy and broadcast it to Youtube as rickroll for a Star Wars trailer.
The thing is you have an environment where people are trying to network and build identity, so what happens to one person gets a reaction from all of them.
Also, you know, they're rich so their opinion actually means something to the broader public.
>False. How many private companies have kangaroo rape courts like they do in college?
Fox News, for one.
> It's not capitalism, but left-wing ideology entrenched at universities, which is actively pushed by professors and other staff in power.
Also the fact that nobody wants to send their daughter any place there's even a chance some little bastard is going to doink her when she's drunk.
Nobody worries if someone at Coca Cola is going to facefuck their little princess while she's away from them.
Not to mention he was blacking out and constantly redoing things because he forgot he did them, like when he kept bothering the publicist.
>Implying that a woman can't be a fucking drunk piece of shit brats without fully mature brains
Not just the women.
Drunk+under 25=retardation. "Bet you $5 you can't light a firecracker in your ass" retarded.
>Also at what point did (>>)85644546 bring up communism? This is pure projection on your part.
The Communism reference was part of the point being made, not a reference to something stated. Reading comprehension m8.
In other words "Nobody is going to do what's right or logical when the money isn't in it (because we're not Communist)."
The people in this thread can't imagine manipulating women into sex.
They're also not experienced or self-conscious enough to realize that Bojack was using Penny in a really deranged way emotionally. He was basically trying to spite her mother, while also recapture something he had with her mother he was nostalgic about.
He also totally fucked their home life by basically bringing her mom just over the edge of cheating, meaning she's going to be anxious about it for a long time.
Bojack is garbage.
>I was young and didn't know what I was doing
Penny was 17 when that shit happened happened with BoJack. Didn't only a year go by? She'd be only a year older...
>the whole thing was way overblown
I thought that was the joke?
Dude, the reason for the "crying rape" culture existing is because of the parents.
If a girl has sex and feels she made a huge mistake, her father will want the name and address of the piece of shit that fucked his daughter so he can head over and ram a garden rake up the guy's ass. Which is the same response to finding out she had regular sex, but with far greater urgency.
If the mother calms him down, he'll be up the college dean's ass demanding the little fucker get thrown out and added to a sex offender registry.
If a guy has sex he regrets, his father gives him pic related. His mother agrees.
Blame biology man, feminists have nothing to do with it. They claim credit for the protective instinct towards females that the average human being has.
>He was basically trying to spite her mother
Bread, he was emotionally devestated and the daughter offered comfort. At that stage he was too mentally exhausted to refuse her.
Kind of like a recovering alcoholic getting shat on by someone close to them, then failing to resist a drink immediately afterwards.
Eighteen and a year into college feels a lot longer for someone straight out of highschool than it is for just about anyone else. I'm 27, I feel closer to my 19 year old self than me at 19 did to me at 18. In fact I'm mostly the same as myself at 20, except in worse health and starting to get beaten down by life.
Also the fact that its stated in-universe and by the creators that he has the same mental maturity as a teenager.
He was going for rebound sex, which is pretty fucking shameful for a 50 going on 60 year old man.
>it's because they are upper-middle class
Again, why is the focus on college then? Why not in other private business, or any other demographic group? It's the ideology, of course. Go look up any opinion poll on feminism or liberal values in general: young students are the ones who agree the most with those ideas.
>Fox News, for one.
In some campuses they have tribunals made purely by university staff who specially investigate rape allegations and make their own sentences independently of police. No other private company compares to this (and definetly not fucking Fox News). It doesn't exist anywhere else, and it is explicitly stated that they exist because universities do not trust the legal system to properly solve sexual assault cases.
A case of "follow the money" would be stuff like people resigning after a controversy (like the Firefox CEO for "homofobia"). This is not it.
>They claim credit for the protective instinct towards females that the average human being has.
Ya, but the trade-off was that society knew women were protected so they agreed to let men do the protecting. It was obviously unstated, but that was how it worked. A guidled cage.
If men don't get to do the protecting anymore, why the fuck do women still get specially protected? I get it women, you all agreed you didn't need no strong man, so stop using my government/tax dollars to get special privileges.
kys
can you tip that trilby just a little harder?
The original point was that Penny got brainwashed at college with the belief that sex she feels bad about is rape. This is "rape culture hysteria", it is taught primarly in colleges and it is non-existent anywhere else.
Think of any other group that involves young people (like sport associations, other lines of education that are not college, etc.) and you'll realise it is not there. Hell, go look at scientific/engineering departments in universities, it is again non-existant. The phenomenon is reduced to universities that teach social sciences and radical left-wing groups.
Women are valuable, period. They are reproductive bottleneck. You can't have more pregnant females than you have females.
The society (The ones that lived long enough to matter anyway) were always geared to the benefit of women. If now moods are shifting towards letting them into workplace so it will be.
Indivudual and social instincts are not rational. They are shaped by evolution with cutoff being "it kinda sorta works"
>Again, why is the focus on college then? Why not in other private business, or any other demographic group? It's the ideology, of course. Go look up any opinion poll on feminism or liberal values in general: young students are the ones who agree the most with those ideas.
What do you think happens to those feminists? They don't disappear or stay in college forever. Or at least most don't.
What's unique specifically to college? The age group, and the wealth required to get in. Parents are still protective enough to complain, and they're rich enough the media listens.
Feminists have no real power, and only morons who want a boogyman think they do. Nothing changes unless money is on its side.
>If men don't get to do the protecting anymore, why the fuck do women still get specially protected? I get it women, you all agreed you didn't need no strong man, so stop using my government/tax dollars to get special privileges.
You know why people complain about third-wave feminists specifically? Because they want to be able to complain if a man holds a door open for them, and get maternity leave without men getting paternity leave.
They want to call all sex inherently damaging to women despite the fact that the second wave feminists literally had to work their entire lives to give the third-wavers the right to fuck before marriage and still be eligible for marriage.
When you talk to real feminists, women in places like fucking Pakistan fighting to be able to marry a dude their own age without their brother breaking into their house and killing them and their husband/kids, they're as disgusted with the third wave nutbags and the SJWs that want to make an issue out of the measurements of Barbie dolls as you are.
Remember when you could be a political moderate? What happened to that?
>The original point was that Penny got brainwashed at college with the belief that sex she feels bad about is rape.
2bf it would be rape in another state
>What's unique specifically to college? The age group, and the wealth required to get in.
Nope. Plenty of other places fulfill those characteristics and are not in constant paranoia about sexual assault. It does not happen in engineering/science circles, it does not happen in sports circles, and it specially does not happen in normie party circles, which based on what you said they should be the first ones to be worried about. Yet the discussions on rape culture, consent, etc. only happen at universities and left wing groups. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to see the connection.
>Feminists have no real power
No one argued that. The point was that they have power in college, where they influence young people.
It's a time of political divide. The future of the First World is being decided. And being a moderate is like being a neutral in WWII. You aren't having moral high ground, you just fail to contribute.