Work

How can we assure that every single person who is physically able to work, has work?

Can't the government provide work instead of gibmees? Wouldn't that make more sense, like hand gibmees for 2-3 months, then switch to handing out work instead of gibmees?

Other urls found in this thread:

econlib.org/library/Enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html
econlib.org/library/Enc/PriceControls.html
econlib.org/library/Enc/MarginalTaxRates.html
lazard.com/media/2390/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-analysis-90.pdf
global.handelsblatt.com/edition/395/ressort/companies-markets/article/electricity-prices-in-a-free-fall
wienenergie.at/eportal3/ep/programView.do/pageTypeId/67825/programId/72008/channelId/-50041
e-control.at/konsumenten/strom/strompreis/was-kostet-eine-kwh
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>instead of spending money paid for by taxes we should spend money to collect some of the money back through taxes

No, just cut all benefits and let the free market work. Welfare kills jobs.

>giving the government more reason to exist
>plunging people further into dependence on the government
Government programs pls go and stay go

Lower taxes, its that simple

>Wanting the "full employment" meme

keynesian detected

ARBEIT MACHT FREI

>No, just cut all benefits and let the free market work. Welfare kills jobs.

But there are people who don't have work. So what shall we do with them? There are gibmees right now. In Germany, 6 million get Hartz-IV. A large part of them could work. Why don't we just give them work and pay gibmees for their work? Like erect solar panels or build houses or get grosseries for old people or do government haircuts or build car super-charge electric stations or build shit which is not built in China?

there are plenty of jobs, it all depends on what you are willing to do

>>Wanting the "full employment" meme

No, I want TOTAL employment, not full employment. The 5% U-3 unemployment and 12% U-6 unemployment is "full employment" meme is shit. We need to go for 1% unemployment, i.e. everyone who wants to work, can get work.

You work so that rapefugees get their pay

>there are plenty of jobs, it all depends on what you are willing to do

Ok, so why don't we just pay people to do those jobs instead of hand them gibmees without work?

Hitler tried this. Now look at Germany.
Clearly total employment can't exist in the current political climate.

The lowered taxes can let companies have more money to work with and let small businesses flourish. If they don't get a job there only other option is crime or deport. And I hope the German police can deal with them.

>You work so that rapefugees get their pay
And I am saying all the rapefugees should work 30-40 hours or they do not get any gibmees at all.

Why is that even controversial? You get gibmees, you work for them. You don't work, you get nada, zero, nothing.

>Clearly total employment can't exist in the current political climate.
Why? Seriously, why? I don't understand where this idea comes from that it makes more sense to pay people money for doing nothing for years compared to just handing them sensible work and paying them for that.

See Giving the government the ability to just hand out jobs is not a good idea. You'll have "make work" useless jobs faster than you can say "I bet the jews did this".

I've heard stories about the state of regulation in Germany, I don't know how many of them are true because how ridiculous they sound

Maybe work on that first.

>The lowered taxes can let companies have more money to work with and let small businesses flourish.

There are countries with 0% income taxes and very low other taxes and they still have unemployed people.

I am happy with lowering taxes, but that is a different topic. I think the government should NOT hand out gibmees, but should hand out paid work instead.

Good luck getting that through whatever German congress is called. Left wing and authoritarian policies are very hard to undo. You'll never see them removed without a government collapse. Same with our Social Security and Medicare.

German goverment proved otherwise

Build wall, bring back the GDR and machine gun down every capitalist pig who wants to flee your worker's utopia.

The government cannot create jobs. The government can take money and redirect the flow. If you eliminate all welfare they HAVE TO WORK OR LITERALLY STARVE. Small businesses can take the employees with the money they gain for not having to pay for welfare.

>You'll have "make work" useless jobs faster than you can say "I bet the jews did this".

Why do you think the government can only create useless jobs? The government could plan and execute a moon landing together with contractors. The government can wage wars. The government can build big walls. The government can build dams. The government can build housing. The government can do postal services. etc.

There is a shit ton the government could do right and still can do right. Why should Germany continue to pay 6 million people gibmees without getting anything for it? Why not just create 4 million jobs and pay the exact same money AND get like 150 million workhours per week basically for no extra money.

All of the things you listed would require even more spending than you already spend on welfare.

Someone has to pay.
If no one has something that needs doing or the money to pay for it doing then no job can be created.
Sure we can endlessly stockpile resources or do luxury ventures such as space travel but ultimately most people are perfectly happy with their mass produced items and as long as the 1% can provide those mass produced items then the 99% will suffer from a lack of work.

Somewhat ironically we have moved closer towards the ideal of communism where the workers work extremely short hours while automation covers the rest. As long as our needs are not flexible automation is vastly superior to employing more people.

dont give gibs to people who arent old sick or disabled

>The government cannot create jobs.
Why not? The government has created jobs for ages. It still does. There is nothing magic about building a road or a wall or a fence or put up solar panels or paint housing or build houses.

>The government can take money and redirect the flow.
That will never get the economy to total employment, because private employers will never hire people who are ex-alcoholics or current drugees or gibmees people.

>If you eliminate all welfare they HAVE TO WORK OR LITERALLY STARVE.
No, people will still not work. They then live on the street, go through trash and eat in soup kitchens. We have that around here.

>Can't the government provide work instead of gibmees?
Haram! Breeding is the only halal work.

>All of the things you listed would require even more spending than you already spend on welfare.

How? Are you saying putting up solar panels will not pay for itself? Are you saying building housing doesn't result in houses that can be sold? Are you saying we don't need roads? Are you saying we don't need a fucking wall around Germany?

Alright, I'll give the simple explanation for why it cannot create jobs.

Say that normally you have blood that goes to your right arm, it flows there, the heart pumps it there. So, to get more blood in your left arm, you take blood out of your right arm, spill some of it(admin expenses), and put it into the left arm. Now, did your body gain any blood?

heheheheheh

>Say that normally you have blood that goes to your right arm, it flows there, the heart pumps it there. So, to get more blood in your left arm, you take blood out of your right arm, spill some of it(admin expenses), and put it into the left arm. Now, did your body gain any blood?

What?

That unemployment occurred because of hyper-inflation which is ALSO the result of government economic interference. Good job proving what I said earlier about the government being shit at economics.

Without the artifically high electricity prices in Germany solar panels wouldn't even amortize in their lifetime.
>paying up to 30ct per kWh is not normal, but with the red-green union party in charge it is

>Are you saying putting up solar panels will not pay for itself?
No, they fucking won't, they're subsized by the fucking states
What do you think the current ROI for photovoltaic power is?

>That unemployment occurred because of hyper-inflation which is ALSO the result of government economic interference.

Guess how the government managed to get it down to 1%. Yes, through government WORK programs.

>Without the artifically high electricity prices in Germany solar panels wouldn't even amortize in their lifetime.

So? You guys pay 900 Euros plus other gibmees plus healthcare insurance etc. per asylum dude in Austria. I guess every single solar panel installed would be money made.

Governments are run by taxes. To pay people they need to use the money they get from taxes.
Money isn't created out of thin air.

Guess how sustainable it was? It wasn't, the Reich was in so much fucking debt it couldn't keep going even if it hadn't of lost.

cut all the benefits from people who don't work and pay them with food and only a bit of personal money for frivolities
oh wait

>What do you think the current ROI for photovoltaic power is?
A lot better than nuclear, coal or gas.

Every solar panel means thousands of euros loss because energy costs only 6ct/kWh here (based mountainy hydrosocialism).

An expanded, revolving, government-run temp agency, possibly with a small allowance even when no work is available.

>Governments are run by taxes. To pay people they need to use the money they get from taxes.
>Money isn't created out of thin air.

What in "we already fucking hand out the gibmees" don't you understand? We would not pay more money to the gibmees welfare queens. We would make them work for the same gibmees they already get.

It's like giving a hooker 200 bucks. You can then say "ok, I handed that to you, I will leave now" or you can say "I handed you 200 bucks, let's fuck". Do you seriously think the second option costs you more than the first?

We aren't talking about raising taxes. We're talking about cutting them after we get rid of welfare. The cuts will create jobs to employ the people that now need them.

>Guess how sustainable it was?

Guess why Germany is the biggest high tech machinery, chemicals, pharma and car exporter in the world. Guess where VW (just became the largest car maker in the world overtaking Toyota despite the Diesel scandal) is located - exactly, in Wolfsburg, a town built by Hitler.

90% of Germans larger companies have been around during Hitler's times and built their businesses based on the socialist leap forward between 1934 and 1943.

It's not a zero sum, if the government uses the taxes to create businesses which create some good in demand you get more back in than you paid.

There is a minimum wage plus the new gimmes would be reduced due to the cost of creating the jobs.
You can make people run around on a hamster wheel but ultimately it's just a waste of time and energy even if you do manage to produce a little electricity.

This might be the case if the majority of demand wasn't already filled by mass produced goods. As long as patents exist you can't have the British smartphone or similar goods so the market is effectively cornered for all but zero worth tasks like the majority of the service industry.

>We're talking about cutting them after we get rid of welfare. The cuts will create jobs to employ the people that now need them.

That does not work. There are high taxed countries and low taxed countries and countries with 0% income tax. Unemployment is not correlated to tax levels. and there is no Western country with 1% unemployment which equals TOTAL employment.

The Soviet Union had TOTAL employment from 1945 to 1991. How come you say? Well, fucking government programs provided works to people.

You will eventually increase the amount of bux available to reflect the hamster wheel electricity that wasn't there before.
Bam, sustained economic growth,
I'm a communist now. #Vandercuck

>You can make people run around on a hamster wheel but ultimately it's just a waste of time and energy even if you do manage to produce a little electricity.

But that is not how things work. There are a shitton of businesses in Europe which are state owned and profitable. It's not like you let 4 million people run around in hamster wheels. That makes no sense. But you CAN get to energy independence and low housing costs quite easily taping into this wealth of work availble by fucking building shit.

Patents are only valid in the countries which implement them e.g. in the US you can't use a for loop without fearing somebody will kick your door in and "ask" for royalities while it's absolutely ok in the EU which doesn't know about software patents.

VW and the rest of Germany experienced a economic boom after the Nazis fell because of the free market and tax cuts, it had nothing to do with Hitler.


econlib.org/library/Enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html

econlib.org/library/Enc/PriceControls.html

econlib.org/library/Enc/MarginalTaxRates.html

see

It's true that you can increase economic production by having people run on hamster wheels.
>Use up energy.
>Need to eat more.
>Also produce electricity.

However this is a similar theory to breaking a window = someone has to fix it = jobs created.

Because work is sustainable and doesn't increase governments power.

It is a job created but it doesn't add any value to the system. Hamster energy does because food is way cheaper than electricity.

>Energy independence.
Why bother when energy dependence is cheaper even after it has all been set up?

>Low housing costs.
So you want to reduce the value of the product of a job yet pay people a reasonable wage?
You can either have lots of houses and pay people next to nothing to build them, have few houses and pay people a lot to build them or build commie blocks that nobody is willing to live in.

plus you get a /fit/ army of minimum wage jobbers

Means for profit always creates profit, a factory will always create profit, the government wants to exterminate labor and thus enslave 50% of the population.

The only reason Germany had an economic miracle in the 1950s was because there were a shitton of manufacturing plants and a highly sophisticated population trained in the 3rd Reich for war purposes.

Look at the UK as a comparison. It was supplied by the US and thus never had to wage total war against Germany. It has decades of decline post 1945 due to NOT having those 10 years of socialism Germany had.

>Put entire population on hamster wheel 12hrs a day.
>Sell electric abroad for food.
>Mandatory draft.
>Population of super fit soldiers acquired.
I'll approve of this economic strategy. Absolutely nothing could go wrong.

No, because for the same expenditure and subsizing, wind is a better investment than solar, even in its stupid high maintenance
It's why over here the organized crime went for the wind racket rather than the solar panel business, they know their shit
>Utility-scale
>Still worse than Wind
>PV Rooftop third highest cost behind even gas peaking
You are not making a compelling argument in your favor here, Jerry
I'm looking at the new one and not much has changed
lazard.com/media/2390/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-analysis-90.pdf

>Why bother when energy dependence is cheaper even after it has all been set up?
It is never cheaper. Every cent paid to oil and gas producers outside of Germany is a cent lost. Not to mention the political dimension of being dependent on Norway, Russia, Saudi ARabia, Iran etc.

>So you want to reduce the value of the product of a job yet pay people a reasonable wage?
Yes, I want that the middle class gets housing in cities for very cheap money. The German middle class is eroding due to high housing and renting costs. If you oversupply cities massively with housing, you can bolster the middle class massively.

Gibsmedats for 3-4 months while you apply for jobs.
After 4 months of failed job search, gubmint should cut gibsmedats and give you a government job instead. Sweeping the streets for example.

Watch more Molyneux.

He's a bit whacky on lots of topics but always quite on point about this.

The government DOESN'T want all people to work.
Working people are self-sustaining, they don't need the government and thus usually vote for 'less-government', resulting in less power for the government.

But if you keep a sizable proportion of your population in constant dependency of government gibsmedat. They will vote for whoever keeps the gibsmedat flowing. In the USA that's the niggnogs. Here in Germany they are trying the same thing with the shitskins.

Won't work for Austria because as I mentioned, unlike the valley goyim we have dirt cheap means of condensed solar energy.
But for Germany it would.

>Every cent paid to oil and gas producers outside of Germany is a cent lost.
So nationalize everything?
>I want that the middle class gets housing in cities for very cheap money.
And commie blocks.

Are you honestly advocating a return to the DDR?

>No, because for the same expenditure and subsizing, wind is a better investment than solar, even in its stupid high maintenance

Asylum dudes can put up solar panels, but they are too unskilled to build wind power plants. So this is not an option.

>You are not making a compelling argument in your favor here, Jerry
Yes, I do. Utility PV is better than most alterantives and easy to build with low skilled gibmees dudes.

Like I said. Nothing could go wrong with giving Germany a population of super fit soldiers.

Yeah, I'm sure the German export of tanks and bombs really contributed to the post WWII economic boom.


>econlib.org/library/Enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html

>Won't work for Austria because as I mentioned, unlike the valley goyim we have dirt cheap means of condensed solar energy.

Germany's electricity prices have dropped so low, coal power plants have to shut down because they are not economical any more.

global.handelsblatt.com/edition/395/ressort/companies-markets/article/electricity-prices-in-a-free-fall

>Are you honestly advocating a return to the DDR?

How is any of this advoacting a return to the DDR? I am not saying the free market should go away. Quite on the contrary, I think the free market should be a shitton more liberalized by taking away all workers rights, no more protection from firing people and no minimum wage.

Instead, if someone has no job, he can get a government job. This will mean the free market will have to fight for employees and pay more than the government gibmees.

This has nothing to do with the DDR, it is actually the complete opposite of it.

>Germany's electricity prices have dropped so low, coal power plants have to shut down because they are not economical any more.

Looks at electricity bill fuck off.

>Yeah, I'm sure the German export of tanks and bombs really contributed to the post WWII economic boom.

You do understand that a tank factory can easily make cars or tractors or other machinery? And that a chemical factory can continue to make chemicals? And that a machinery factory can continue to make machinery?

That is what happened to Germany post-1945. 90% of the factories were converted to peacetime work and a shitton of them morphed into world leaders which are today the reason why Germany has a strong economy unlike France or Italy or Russia.

So basically a DDR core with anarcho-liberal capitalists?
It might sound nice on paper but you are missing an important point. If the government loses too much power it ceases to be the government. If you liberalize the companies too much the companies become the country.
The historical republics of Venice and Genoa particularly spring to mind here.
>Government produced all these nice city conditions.
>Megacorp A and B carve up the population into either company.
>Government can't interfere so Government power eroded at every turn.
>Official government becomes the 3rd dog in a 3 dog race.

You can't fool me, I lived in your shithole and paid almost 30 fucking cents per kWh.

>If you liberalize the companies too much the companies become the country.
So? What does that have to do with the DDR. That is the opposite of the DDR.

>>Megacorp A and B carve up the population into either company.
>>Government can't interfere so Government power eroded at every turn.
That is why you have elections. If people fall for the corporate meme, then it is the people you blame, not the system.

Maybe energy really is cheap in Germany, but the glorious Politbüro takes an insane cut.
Fix it.

You want to set up a system that is destined to fail? Why bother? Why not just run a bunch of local elections and let the parties they elect dictate local policy and skip the whole government trying to employ everyone fiasco?

Like George Carlin said, you need the poor in the capitalist system to scare the shit out of the middle class and make them show up to those jobs.

>You can't fool me, I lived in your shithole and paid almost 30 fucking cents per kWh.

The reason why the kWh RETAIL prices increased in the last 20 years is not that the price to generate and transmit the power increased, but because the government's share of the price increased from 25% to an overall 54% in taxes and other fees.

Electricity is cheaper in Austria because the taxes on it are a shitton lower... but they still are between 15 and 30 cents per kwh... not 6kwh
---
Eine Kilowattstunde inklusive Netzkosten, Abgaben und Steuern kostet einen normalen Einpersonenhaushalt mit ca 2.000 kWh Jahresverbrauch in Wien beim Landesversorger 23,32 Cent. Eine Großfamilie mit z.B. 6.000 kWh Jahresverbrauch zahlt dagegen nur 19,19 Cent beim selben Lieferanten. Die Pauschalbeträge bei den Energie- und den Netzkosten machen den Unterschied.

>ou want to set up a system that is destined to fail?
How is it destined to fall.

Again, we ALREADY pay gibmees to people. Why not use their now untapped labor? Makes zero sense.

Fool yourself, but don't fool somebody who actually has to pay his low as fuck energy bill.

wienenergie.at/eportal3/ep/programView.do/pageTypeId/67825/programId/72008/channelId/-50041

It's cheaper to give people money than employ them.

All the figures are for static decay in efficency of 1% top per year in a cycle of 25 years
Half those panels are not going to be working at all come year 20, and you are not going to achieve 90% efficency without constant maintenance 10 years in

It's an investment that you will not make up at the current rate without overpricing the energy you sell out, even at utility scale, 75kwh and up

e-control.at/konsumenten/strom/strompreis/was-kostet-eine-kwh

Do you even know what the e-control is?

>It's cheaper to give people money than employ them.
No it is not. The Nazis proved that once and for all.

This type of welfare has already been tried by Franklin Delano Roosevelt in his plan to fight the Great Depression. People did not want to be accused of living on government welfare in the 30s and 40s, and wouldn't take the handouts that Democrats of the 30s and 40s wanted to give; therefore, FDR created Civilian Conservation Corps to give people work and sustainable income while the US obtained manpower to build infrastructure and other necessary projects that primed the US industries for the second world war. Even now, in the US, there is a system called "Work Study" for financially burdened college students, which gives students a job to improve their communities and receive income to pay for their education instead of using welfare. It is a good system that could see some benefits if more appropriately funded and expanded.

We are a caliphate and you are Africa in 20 years. Anyone who plans anything beyond 2035 is a fucking moron.

I don't pay them for my electricity, so I don't know or care.

They changed the monetary system. Try changing the monetary system without being attacked by half of Europe.
Libya also tried.

Let people start their own companies and hire their own employees, instead of making laws restricting job creation to designated job creators.

>I don't pay them for my electricity, so I don't know or care.
So you don't know who they are. Understood.

great argument faggotron, you sure convinced me with those hot opinions

>Let people start their own companies and hire their own employees

We have done that for decades. We do not manage to get to TOTAL employment any more. No Western country gets there.

>nstead of making laws restricting job creation to designated job creators.

I am advocating the opposite. Remove all restictions whatsoever from the free market, especially labor restrictions such as restrictions on firing people etc.

And, in order to have social protection, provide anyone who is unemployed with a job organized by the government for gibmees money if that person cannot find one with the free market.

The result is that you change the labor market from a buyers (and employers') market to a sellers (an employees') market. That makes it all a shitton more dynamic.

Makework initiatives don't do anything/

>How can we assure that every single person who is physically able to work, has work?
The only way that would work is to change monetary policy.

The problem isn't people wanting to work, or people wanting to consume. So why can't everyone have what they want and everyone have a job to create what is wanted?

The answer is that money limits the economy because of how it is created, distributed and retained.

The solution is social credit, whereby money is created in balance to the economic factors that drive the economy rather than the needs of private banks.

The simple explanation is that every business have more sales than they pay money to people, that is wages and benefits and dividends to investors. Any business that pays more money to people than it has in sales is going to go bankrupt. So social credit removes all other forms of currency creation, and simply makes money in the exact balance between the sales and the income of people. A-B=C.

With that money C you can then spend it into the economy in a number of ways. Remove all government taxes and have the government spend it all. Pay people a direct basic income. Offer a negative sales tax. Some combination of the three.

No longer create money as debt to banks requiring more money than exists to be paid back. No longer allow banks to create money with fraction reserve banking. Money once created stays forever. The amount of money created is in balance to the number of people working and their productivity. As productivity goes up more money is created, as it goes down (an more labor is required and more people are working) it goes down.

This is not only the solution to the broken capitalist system it's also the answer to the coming automation.

>How can we assure that every single person who is physically able to work, has work?

>millions of unemployed able bodied darkies
>require quick way to get them to add value to economy, while preventing them from causing havoc in their spare time
>many darkies have already been cataloged and reside in various 'centers'
Easy solution Fritz.

If our government gets involved the staff are useless dregs who don't care about their jobs or customer service. If they contract it out, someone who's in government gives the contract to his mate who gets rich off us. Now there are no jobs for go'fers or paddies were better off paying the mentally usless and apathetic a pittance to stay at home