Is it just me, or did Alan Moore really fall off after the 80s. he keeps talking about how his Superhero stuff was just a short period of his career in earlier times and hes since moved past that, but if you look at his production most BIG 2 its been pretty lacking.
When he went to Image it just seemed like he was desperately apologizing for the "dark age" and doing really boilerplate cover album stuff like Supreme and Judgement Day, then he goes to ABC and does the pretty cool Loeg Books but his stuff around then was otherwise basic "good comics" like Top Ten or him doing his "classic pastiche" stuff like Tom Strong. and of course his weird gimmick passion projects like Promethea and Lost Girls.
I am just saying when you think of Moore's best work, its centered mostly around superhero shit, despite his clear retroactive distaste for them. Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Captain Britian, Miracleman even LOEG and V for vendetta to a certain extent. All the Moore "classics" are motsly rooted in superhero shit, and most of them for big cooperate companies. How ironic.
Moore's problem is that people keep redoing the same shit at big two and that they don't give a fuck about creators.
Logan Clark
Moore hates the concept of adults reading comics. At the same time, he tries to make comics for adults.
He's written some good shit, but he's truly the pinnacle of pretentious.
Jonathan Phillips
Eh I think the people involved certainly care. Like I doubt guys like Johns and Lee and Quesada dislike creators given they fact they are creators and have depp personal and professional relationships with them. Its just that as a company its priority has to always been its bottom line, just like as a human your priority always has to be survival. It doesn't have to make them necessarily evil, certainly great works of art have been done by these companies in ways primarily driven by profit. But I doubt think its as simple as "Big 2 doesn't care about creators."
Hell, DC under Levitz was literally GIVING away money it was under no legal obligation to so . Didio and Quesada both have reps for keeping low selling books afloat out of respect for the arrostry. And even the so called "coorpate" mandates are usually driven by actual artistic goals, even if they may be disliked (Peter Parker shouldn't be married, bat characters cant have happily ever afters. you should not have an army of redundant characters, there needs to be stories that distill iconic characters into single books etc.) for good or bad all those came out of ways to make the best books in order to make there money it wasn't just NEED CASH FUCK PEOPLE
Anthony Phillips
>Moore hates the concept of adults reading comics Source
Grayson Taylor
>Moore hates the concept of adults reading comics.
Moore has never said this. Ever.
I'm not a big Moore follower. I've read, like, a handful of his works. So, I'm not this Moore fanboy.
But the butthurt against him is unreal. Are people really that insecure about their taste in cape comics that they get triggered when a revered writer criticizes them?
I dunno, I like cape comics, but I don't dislike Alan Moore for not liking them.
Adrian Howard
>I don’t think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it’s a rather alarming sign if we’ve got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s
- Alan Moore
Oliver Roberts
superheroes =/= comics
Josiah Jones
Reminder that these statements were made as jokes to a live audience and then repurposed into clickbait.
Aiden Young
>The only comics that exist are superhero comics.
Angel Turner
And he's right. We only have to look at Snyderfags cheering about how mature Superman is now and how the DCEU isn't family friendly to see proof.
Jason Johnson
Moore and DC/Marvel is literally like a breakup. That ex who might not be that bad a girl and is probably really nice to others but to you will always be that cold-ass bitch. Moore cares about comics, just despises the corporate shenanigans that leave people like Kirby, Ditko, Anglo, or Friedrich with not much of anything while others make millions off their creations.
His own input has decreased due to not wanting to get involved in that again, but it has been consistently solid. Just in the 90s he put out From Hell which is better than any of his superhero comics.
Chase Perez
At one point, he wanted to write comics that adults could at least appreciate, and explore what the medium had to offer. Since getting legally rammed, and seeing what the industry has made out of the trends he and a few others started, he has given up on it, and now only writes comic books if the paycheck is obscenely good.
Benjamin Cox
>and now only writes comic books if the paycheck is obscenely good.
Is pretty much the opposite, he no longer gives a fuck about money and only does passion projects like Providence or Cinema Purgatorio. If he carted about paycheck size he would be working for the big two, no for Avatar.
Caleb Bennett
>but it has been consistently solid.
His Fishrape Necronomicon shit isn't solid, it's crap.
Parker Hill
>didn't mention Voice of Fire
Jerusalem comes out next month. I'm going to get it and your use of buzzwords is bullshit
second of all, you can't explain the glut of production in the 90s that printed more comics than needed and destroyed the industry. inflation is a thing.
>using the word hell to be melodramatic about charity
i'll bet you like the disney corporation
Blake Powell
Yeah Levitz was the guy holding back Before Watchmen
Nicholas Lewis
He seems pretty sad and hateful. Most of the shit he's talked about in recent years has just been how much he hates different things. His agenda against Grant Morrison is particularly weird. He makes it sound like everything Grant has ever written was just a ripoff of his own work, when in reality Grant probably just ripped him off once in passing with something that was more like a reference than plagiarism.
Isaac Bailey
Moore hasn't been relevant since 1989.
Thomas Peterson
and yet that's wrong
Levi Bailey
His beard looks like a fungus that's slowly devouring him.
David Butler
>Since getting legally rammed
Dude has never been cheated out of anything. He made his career out of rewriting other people's characters. Most comics fans and nearly all of the media still think Alan Moore created Swamp Thing. Moore NEVER gave credit to Steve Ditko for Watchmen.
Moore is basically just a fraud who writes fedora shit and appeals to fedora fags. He's THE #1 reason why modern comics appeal to literal autists and /r9k/ tier losers.
Wyatt Carter
And yet Alan Moore has written numerous superhero comics.
Moore hates you btw, dunno why you're trying to defend him.
Jeremiah Foster
He has had a successful work that anyone other than """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""critics"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" has cared about since The Killing Joke.
Gabriel Barnes
People really need to accept that Moore was just never that great. In the 80s he may have a standout, and in the ABC era he may have been better than average, but that's ALL he's ever been.
Jaxson Evans
>He has
He HASN'T
Ryan Sullivan
Capeshit is terrible. It's a limiting genre that's so disgustingly mired in commercial ties and branding it's obvious to anyone with half a brain
Thomas Garcia
>that these statements were made as jokes So much of what Moore says is a joke, but he delivers it all with perfect deadpan and people think he's being serious
James Hall
so league of extraordinary gentlemen meant nothing? i haven't even read it and it has a movie.
bloviate some more
Ryan Johnson
> Moore NEVER gave credit to Steve Ditko for Watchmen.
He explicitly does so in the documentary In Search of Steve Ditko
Jackson Collins
It's certainly not like someone's opinion can change over the course of years or anything.
Aaron Lewis
Considering he spent his entire Christmas vacation a few years ago writing a literal novel-length reply to an email interview just to shit on "Batman scholars", Grant Morrison, and superheroes as a whole - that's some pretty next level trolling.
Moore is a miserable broken man. He even laments how he's not spending time with his family and is writing this drible instead LOL
Dylan Johnson
Moore on Morrison is fucking hilarious. Moore claims that he's only read 2000 AD and never touched anything else, yet also claims that EVERYTHING Morrison has written was inspired by Moore.
Even the stuff that young Morrison published before Moore entered comics.
Sure, Morrison has said some audacious stuff, but Moore is either flat out lying or making wild narcissistic claims.
Luis Campbell
He hates his old stuff because, much like Sup Forums, he's a contrarian bitch.
Elijah Carter
Ever since reading League of Extraordinary Gentlemen i've come to the conclusion that while Watchmen and certain works are good, Alan Moore is garbage and not good
Juan Harris
I honestly believe Moore is now saying Joker doesn't die at the end of Killing Joke purely to spite Grant Morrison after listening to him say the Joker dies at the end of it during that one interview he did with Kevin Smith.
Leo Kelly
The other really batshit crazy one (maybe even crazier than Moore) is Michael Moorcock talking about how Grant Morrison plagiarized his Jerry Cornelius character for that one extremely brief, maybe two panel section of the Invisibles where King Mob imagines he's 'Gideon Stargrave'. Moorcock already made a point of saying his Jerry Cornelius character was someone any writer could use, but I guess because Morrison gave him a different name that crossed his mental plagiarism line. I think Morrison gets targeted by these other artists because his style is extremely reference-heavy meta-fiction, and these writers see one of their works get referenced and can't tell the difference between that and actual plagiarism. Or maybe they do know the difference but complain about it anyway because they want to cash in on the popularity Morrison's experienced in the past decade or so.
Juan Perry
>He even laments how he's not spending time with his family and is writing this drible instead
have you ever considered that's a joke?
Joseph James
or maybe Morrison works for DC and DC is basically outmoded childrens' capeshit.
i have never read anything by morrison. who are the people who read morrison? capeshit fans i suppose.
Jaxon Bell
COME GUYS JUST SAY IT.
YOU DON'T LIKE ALAN MOORE BECAUSE YOU READ CAPESHIT.
Jaxson Rodriguez
>Morrison works for DC
Morrison works for every comic company there is pretty much.
Luis Watson
go to bed Alan. it's fucking 4 AM or in britbong land.
Christopher Garcia
>reads comics but looks down on others who read comics involving superheroes
Justin Young
I honestly think it's jealousy. They see Morrison (arguably) surpassing them, and cognitive dissonance kicks in. "No, he can't actually be talented... he just got to where he is by copying me!!"
Isaiah Young
not marmite. think moonpies, dingus.
John Thomas
>still clinging to capeshit
Jaxon Price
Which mature, high class non-superhero comics do you read, autist-user?
Dylan Moore
whichever ones don't have outmoded protagonists that were created in the 30s, 40s or 50s.
Colton Cruz
>too ashamed to name the pretentious comics for mature audiences he reads
Predictable desu.
Noah Roberts
>He hates his old stuff He's distanced himself from it, but when fans come up to him and tell him how much they enjoy, say Swamp Thing, he takes the compliment.
I mean David Bowie stopped playing his old songs in the 90's not because he's some edgy contraction, but because he's an artist and he didn't want to live off performing his greatest hits
Otherwise you end up like Marv Wolfman, Chris Claremont , or Paul Levitz writing for a character that you had success with decades ago and producing schlock
Cooper Fisher
Almost like overindulging in booze and drugs every day of your life fucks with your brain and turns it into a pile of mediocrity-spewing sludge or something.
Alexander Miller
>Most of the shit he's talked about in recent years has just been how much he hates different things.
This meme again.
Its not his fault people keep asking him the same questions and decide to ignore him every time he is no complaining.
Like take this for example, he spends a lot interview explaining his work, and has some actually interesting opinions, but the only part about it people seem to care about, is the fragment when he complains about superheroes, which is only a small part of a much lengthier response about the accusations against the sexual violence in his comics.
Brayden Ross
He's grown old and bitter and uses that to make himself feel smart and special, much like your average user.
Ryder Reed
His """"interesting"""" opinions are anything but that. He gives common sense arguments against literal tumblr-tier accusations, but takes 4x as many words as needed to state them.
You do not need 4 fucking paragraphs to say "In order for art to work, people need to be allowed to write about those different from themselves."
Jackson Turner
>so league of extraordinary gentlemen meant nothing? i haven't even read it and it has a movie. Fucking Grumpy Cat had a movie FFS. I mean, I love LOEG, but that's a pretty stupid point on your part.
Ayden Young
He probably reads Saga or Lumberjanes.
Carson Perry
I have no idea what """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""critics"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Is supposed to imply. It seems like some " No true Scotsman" crap
Justin Hughes
You said Moore hates the concept of adults reading comics. This quote has nothing to do with that. It has to do with Moore's opinions on adults liking superheroes.
Cooper Hill
>You do not need 4 fucking paragraphs Unless the interview was done by telegraph i don't what's the point trying to enforce economy in words, i mean is no like he goes off topic.
Blake Morales
If you're job is being a writer you should probably be a little better at expressing ideas efficiently while speaking.
Benjamin Young
>expressing ideas efficiently Yeah, that's totally what writing is about, expressing your ideas in least amount possible.
Justin White
the point is to clearly convey a point, instead of rambling like a high school student trying to fill up space on a midterm paper.
Nathaniel Thompson
For most of Sup Forums comics means superheroes
Christian Barnes
It's part of writing is about. If your actual idea is surrounded by ten times the amount of words required to express it, then you aren't a good writer.
Julian Ortiz
I am flabbergasted that you're desperate to defend a man who would think you're a mental midget for posting on a community like Sup Forums.
Colton Lewis
For most of comics the topic is superheroes.
Easton Cooper
>the point is to clearly convey a point
Which he does, and even offers various analogies to exemplify his point.
If you are academic writer maybe, but the idea the every writer should use the minium amount of words possible is retarded.
Is there any comic writer that actually likes Sup Forums?
Nathan Campbell
I'm pretty sure he's gone on record as saying Saga is the only modern comic worth his time.
Of course, that was back when it was still good.
Daniel Gonzalez
>most of comics If you actually think this that's hilarious and sad. You really believe that out of ALL OF COMICS superheroes take up anything like a majority?
>Is there any comic writer that actually likes Sup Forums? As far as I know only artists come here. Steve Lieber, Brandon Graham, James Stokoe, Cameron Stewart
Chase Turner
>minium amount of words possible
Being efficient isn't the same as using the minimum amount of words possible. You're going from one extreme to the other.
Bentley Gray
>You really believe that out of ALL OF COMICS superheroes take up anything like a majority?
There are more superhero comics than any one person could ever read in a hundred lifetimes. What non-superhero comics are you even thinking of that could possibly come close to the superhero comic volume? Calvin & Hobbes type Sunday morning comics? Archie? Modern pretentious non-superhero comics for mature audiences that revolve around non-superpowered normies like Strangers in Paradise? Still nowhere close to the amount of superhero comics if you combine all of those.
Brody Martin
Having never touched a single Moore book nor read anything about this man, am I to understand that he hates me regardless of if I enjoy comics or not, or he dislikes that I don't read his comics, or does he want me to read his comics?
Jacob Moore
He doesn't have Internet. He can't just come to Sup Forums to get that kind of thing out of his system.
Eli Perez
>Being efficient isn't the same as using the minimum amount of words possible. You're going from one extreme to the other. Okay, he doesn't repeats himself, or goes off topic and his ideas are expressed quite clearly, seems rather efficient to me, even if a little wordy. Also is an interview not an essay.
Lucas Gray
>If you actually think this that's hilarious and sad. You really believe that out of ALL OF COMICS superheroes take up anything like a majority?
Google's of that opinion.
Ryan Bell
If you are over 18 years old and you read superhero comics or watch superhero movies, he thinks you're stupid.
Or to paraphrase him "you're retreating into a fantasy world from the complexities of an increasingly overwhelming reality instead of maturing and facing it."
Nathan Sullivan
Manga and European comics are starters
America isn't the only country making comics
Yes manga are comics, don't even try that retarded argument
Brandon Barnes
Cerebus? Hellboy? BPRD? Bone? Disney Duck Comics? 2000AD stuff? Dylan Dog? And we're not even getting into manga here. And yes when we talk about the sequential art medium, manga is the same thing
Adam Campbell
What? He replied to an email interview request in which he responded to myriad internet criticisms of him. He also was pretty active on goodreads and answered questions there not too long ago.
Ethan Collins
>Yes manga are comics
No, manga doesn't count, that's why it goes on Sup Forums and not Sup Forums. And that's why Google shows you superhero comics and not manga when you search for the phrase comic book.
Easton Diaz
You're unbelievably stupid
Aaron Roberts
Hellboy certainly qualifies as a superhero comic, as does much of 2000 AD. What are you trying to say?
Matthew Wright
>Hellboy
How is Hellboy not a superhero comic? Also still nowhere close to even a small fraction of the amount of superhero comics when you add up the examples you've given.
Hudson Sanchez
So reading spider man is dumb but if I read the sunday newspaper comics its ok? I'm starting to feel a little glad that I never read his stuff now
Camden Mitchell
I've cited a mainstream search engine. You've cited your feelings.
Adam Brooks
Google also seems to think Seduction of the Innocent is a comic book, so i wouldn't trust him to much desu.
Juan Rivera
By this loose fucking definition Bone is a Superhero comic
That you both believe that one genre has more stories than the rest of an entire medium you are fucking retarded. Are there more westerns than all other film? Fuck no! Are there a shitload of westerns, yes! What about the long ass runs of Horror and romance comics that ran before cape comics even got popular? Political Comics?
Ayden James
It uses backpropagation networks to give you the probablistically correct answers. Just because you can find one or two one-off 'bad' answers that conflict with your common sense doesn't mean it isn't mostly right on the big picture stuff. They use the same approach for their translation program and it works much better than the translation programs built non-probabilistically with hardcoded rules about language.
Luke Brown
Why does Sup Forums pretend to hate superhero comics even though they talk about nothing else?
Michael Adams
Do you now understand how retarded Moore's statement is? I hope this has been a learning experience for you.
Hudson Brown
You cited a search engine that not only tailors its results based on your internet use, but tailors it based on your location, ie America, where obviously the majority of comics are superhero, when you were responding to a question about all comics on earth
Samuel Diaz
>Political Comics
Political cartoons are almost always limited to one or two panels. That's not the same as a comic *book*.
Nathaniel Mitchell
Whut I was just replying to being a retard I don't even know what you are referring to here. Moore became a fucking lunatic somewhere along the way I never claimed to agree with Moore
Isaac Myers
You've never read a non-superhero comic in your life. You've probably never even read a comic book, you've just come here from Sup Forums to talk about movies.
Adrian Russell
>tailors its results based on your internet use
You can turn that off.
Angel Jones
Did anyone see my goalposts?
Thomas Torres
You act like Sup Forums doesn't love to talk about what it hates
Right now would a new thread about the black actress playing Mary Jane get more posts or one about people's favorite inkers in comics?
Sup Forums has become a Sup Forums containment board.