Batman Forever

What went right?

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S E A L

E

A

L

The music

youtube.com/watch?v=Pexxk6tMKLQ

Not much. As guess some of the city design is cool and the Seal song is GOAT. Apparently the deleted scenes make the movie make a lot more sense.

Some anons like to pretend that Val Kilmer isn't shit but nah he's shit.

Tommy Lee Jones.

"You make an interesting offer. Therefore: Heads, we accept. Tails, we blow your damn head off."

Absolutely nothing.

Best live-action Bruce Wayne of all the movies that I've seen.

chris o'donnell was pretty hot i guess?

most everything around it can at least be considered good sort of. i liked it as a kid.
it's just almost everything should have been different too, yknow

Jim Carrey was fantastic in that movie. Seriously. He gave a really good performance. He was mousey and creepy in a sad-nerd-way when he was just a scientist at Wayne Corp, he was genuinely scary when he tested his brain machine on his boss and then threw him out a window into the river, and I always enjoyed his absolutely manic green leotard Riddler.

Mr. Carrey, what're you doing on Sup Forums? Are you off your meds?

Even that was better in Burtons. Anyway OP the only thing I can remotely praise is the idea that there are Gotham gangs running around neon bodypaint

Playing Arkham Knight recently since they finally went and fixed the PC version gave me a new appreciation for this movie's take on Gotham architecture. Even though that game's narrative tone is much darker than SchumacherBats ever was, you can certainly recognize that Rocksteady borrowed some design cues from these movies what with all the neon everywhere and fuckhueg statues supporting monorail tracks and jutting out the sides of buildings all over town.

And yeah I realize that pic was from Batman and Robin which was by all accounts way worse than Forever.

Yeah yeah, I know I'm one of the only people who thinks this.

Forever was good, b&r is complete shit. But Forever was fine. I see no difference between that flick and most marvel movies, aside from forever looking like a real movie and not like a tv show

>since they finally went and fixed the PC version
They did? It's actually functional now?

Most boring Batman in history fights Jim Carrey doing a shitty Frank Gorshin impression and Tommy Lee Jones doing a shitty Jack Nicholson impression.

Also Riddler is for some reason the main character and they do the Robin origin despite Robin being at the most 4 years younger than Batman.

Well I just bought a GTX1070 graphics card (the rest of my hardware is four years old) so I can't say for sure how much of that is the devs fixing their game and how much is merely my hardware being able to simply brute-force the game into running properly, but I bought it on steam sale early in the month and it works for me.

That sweet lair two-face had with the heaven/hell them and the angel/demon girl that stayed on each side.

Tommy Lee Jones and his buffoonery.

It managed to pull off a sutiable '90s adaptation of '60s TV Batman without collapsing into a raw, embarrassing camp singularity like its sequel did.

Chris was how I knew I was gay.

That you Bruce?

Yea

nothing

nicole kidman was hot

that's it

was about to type essentially this. It's a great update of Batman '66

It also has one of the best on-screen Joker performances, ever. It's just a pity Tommy Lee Jones was playing Two-Face when he did it.

One of those is Drew Barrymore.
Wonder if 2Face had them tribbidng just in the middle of the room.
With dyed pubes obviously.

It's a goofy, campy movie that is completely tongue-in-cheek. Last time I watched it, I enjoyed it thoroughly.

the comic adaptation.

I liked Val Kummer.
Robin Suit looked cool.

Kino

Chris O'Donnell was Literally Thirty Years Old at the time of filming.

i dont understand why there was such a fuss about that game at launch, i pre ordered it weeks ahead and was able to run it fine after that patch that came out the day after launch

Pros:
-Jim Carrey as the Riddler is entertaining to watch
-Two-Face Girls are hot
-Robin's costume is okay (aside from the obvious)
-Riddler's Apartment scene
-"Kiss From A Rose"
-All of the Riddler costumes
-Based Alfred is still there
-cheeky references to the Adam West version
-Originator of Batman giving the thumbs up gif and pic related
-The Arkham Scene near the end

Cons:
-Batnipples/Robinnipples
-Batmobile
-Dr. Chase Kidman
-The romance between Bruce Wayne and Dr. Chase Kidman
-Two-Face is just a silly joker who bends the rules of his own coin before shooting Bruce in the head
-Batman killing Two-Face by throwing coins at him

It's a fun stupid ride just like B&R only a little more fun and a little less stupid.

I never understood the point of the giant statues.

Also have you ever noticed both Joel Schumacher's Riddler and Bryan Singer's Lex both have plays on the classic "the superhero will come rescue me" scene?

They're giant. They're statues. What's not to love?

Seal's song is fucking GOAT
Riddler was not awful (not great though)
That's literally all I can think of.

N I P P E L S
I E
P L
P P
L P
E I
S E L P P I N

I'VE
BEEN
KISSED
BY
A
ROSE
ON
THE
GRAVE!!!!

Tim Burton was still attached to it.

Two Face's first few lines before he goes nuts and stays that way.

Tom Cruise's former lame evidence that he's not gay.

Riddler's wacky staff twirling.

Alfred.

So apparently security at Wayne Manor sucks ass because all it took was some Halloween costumes

The casting. Even Batman and Robin had inspired casting. They just lacked a good script.

Batman and Robin also has the best Alfred scene of the entire Burtonverse. Bruce's flashback of him when he was healthy was very well done, despite how bad everything else was.

You're forgetting just how bad Batman Returns was.
Batman Returns was the biggest drop in quality from one movie to the next, as Tim burton got the green light after Batman to ramp up the Burtoness to Edward Scissorhands levels.

BR Batman is an awful character. Doesn't even try to "not kill"
Michelle Pfeiffer in mock bondage gear is embarrassing to watch. Oh look she licked her hand and used it to wash her forehead like a cat, oh how sexy *vomits*
And she's the secretary of the CEO of a large corporation but you know, poor, tiny apartment.
It's also the beginning of WTF gotham city, where it's always Christmas 1950.
It's a miserable Batman movie, where the only interesting character was Danny deVito with Zoidberg claws.
Batman Forever was at least sort of fun. Pre-Botox Nicole Kidman's character was meh but she made a little sense. She liked the mysterious Batman, and, well, yeah, Michael Keaton's kind of a stiff so yeah that doesn't work.
Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey were both over the top as addressed above.
Schumacher gets a lot of shit for "wrecking the franchise", but he doesn't really shit the bed until B&R. I think the weird statues were him trying to integrate some of the Burton style into his own, and it didn't work.
If BF was the last Batman movie, I could definitely imagine people seeing it as the "Revenge of the Sith" of the series, where it's not as good as the originals, but you're so used to shit that it actually seems okay.

this. kiss from a rose

some batman comics make me feel like that its a good thing not everything you read and watch has to make you feel happy, be fun and have a optimistic ending yeah some people are tired of dark batman and thats understandable but this was made a while ago

Also Batman returns has the best Gotham

Strangely... the soundtrack, man.

>Doesn't even try to "not kill"

You say that like he wasn't intentionally slaughtering henchmen with aircraft-mounted machine guns, blowing up entire chemical factories full of guys, and knocking people to the deaths from absurdly tall cathedrals in the '89 film.

And goddamn it, I loved him for it.

I feel that way about Jacob's Ladder. Miserable movie, loved it.
I think I was put off by BR's Batman in that he's pretty much no real sense of empathy. He kills mooks in the way I would expect a villain to.

If you can get over every major performance being fucking terrible, it's a fairly entertaining movie. The main problem is the cast.

>Oh look she licked her hand and used it to wash her forehead like a cat, oh how sexy *vomits*
holy shit what a fucking pleb you are

I can't tell if you're a fag or a woman.

But I can tell you have shit taste.

Well this is a Batman who's not only killed his Joker but His Parents Murderer too.

He's already broken the one rule and then some so I think it's rather interesting to see a Batman who has crossed the line.

He's not a straight up murderer but he won't hesitate if someone forces his hand.

Yeah it can be dark, brooding, bawdy, depressing even..but it's a Great Movie to watch on Christmas.

By the way the licking the hand thing isn't mean to be sexy, it's to show you how fucked in the head she is. I wouldn't really consider that and her licking Batman sexy.

>What went right?
I liked the art direction although it's been downhill since then: it went off the rails a bit with the batnipples and casting Arnold as Freeze rather than Bane in the second flick; and, honestly, they were just mailing it in with the character designs in the third one.

I'd loved a DLC race track inspired in Batman and Robin's Gotham. Imagine driving around from rooftops to giant statues, drifting through arms and jumping in the air to the next building, chasing neon cars or Mr.Freeze's tank or whatever.

Great soundtrack, best batmobile.

>-The Arkham Scene near the end

The deleted scene of Two-Face escaping from Arkham at the beginning is pretty rad too.

youtube.com/watch?v=78mXN6z7HJU

I liked Jim Carrey as the Riddler too.

Jim Fucking Carrey as the fucking Riddler, the most enjoyable villian performance ever put on film

This is cool for the creepy mood but it really does add absolutely nothing to the movie. If Harvey was a returning villain or something it would make more sense but introducing a villain by showing him escape imprisonment for a crime we didn't even knew he committed is silly.

Which is why they cut it. I don't get why they cut the scenes of Bruce's introspection. I can see why they cut the man bat part, but that could have been redone.

I feel like her and Kilmer were legit fucking, the sexual tension between them is palpable

My autism always flares up when two-face flips a coin to decide whether or not to kill batman, it tells him not to and then he proceeds to ignore the coin.

NOT MUH TWO-FACE

Gotham's visual style was cool as fuck, and I wish more comics would depict the city like that. Maybe call it the "Neon District" a left over from more flashy and prosperous days?

>GRAVE!!!!
Grey, you fucking moron.

I found Jacob's Ladder to be uplifting.

>the point

Bruh

There'll never be another superhero movie like Batman Returns. Ever. They gave Burton full creative freedom and a fuck-huge budget and Burton said okay, here's an unpleasant, deeply weird superhero Christmas movie with Danny Devito oozing black goo out of his mouth and weird BDSM Catwoman and...yeah.

The entire thing is so strange. Nearly unwatchably strange. And yet it works. I still feel bad for the Penguin every time his goofy little rocket penguins usher him into his watery grave.

I haven't seen Forever in like 15 years. I doubt it's aged very well.

It's a pretty stock cliche, even the new Star Trek movie does it.

>He's not a straight up murderer but he won't hesitate if someone forces his hand.
Dude, a guy blowing fire at him from outside his bulletproof, armored car is not "forcing his hand". Shit, that scene had him fucking use a stupid "turn the car 180 degrees" gimmick just to get in position to incinerate the guy; he actively went out of his way just to go "Yeah well MY FIRE'S BIGGER LOL", which doesn't strike me as the screenwriter thinking of Batman in any way, it strikes me of them thinking "what would make more people cheer this kewl dumb action scene?"

>There'll never be another superhero movie like Batman Returns. Ever.

Spider-Man 3 was pretty much the exact same situation. Visionary weirdo filmmaker harnessed and reeled in his wackier tenancies to create monster success so execs gave him almost creative freedom and a blank check for the next film because they know it will shatter every record no matter what and he indulged himself and went full retard.

Except if you know anything about the making of Spider-Man 3, you're wrong.

Elaborate

...but that isn't what happened with SM3 at all. Raimi wanted nothing to do with Venom, because he was like 30something when he was introduced and as such has no attachment to the character whatsoever, but the studios insisted. Nobody forced Burton to use any elements in Batman Return, that's all him.

> I liked BF Two-Face

Yeah I know it was Joker-lite. But.. Jones looked like he was having a ball with the role.

Dat feeling
So dramatic
Made me feel the angst and the stakes

Though things individually missed the mark
It all worked together so well

I have to agree

Yes
I don't care if this made sense
They really went for it

To be larger than life, dummy.

It easily is the most egregious thing in the entire movie.

>He's not a straight up murderer but

Yes he is.He flat out murders criminals and seems to get a kick out of it. Sometimes he goes out of his way to be creative about it for variety.

He dropped Napier into a vat of toxic chemicals on purpose. He later finished the job by ensuring he would fall to his death from a cathedral. He gunned down Joker's thugs with machine guns and rockets from his aircraft. He blew up an entire chemical factory full of Joker's goons with a remote-controlled batmobile. He lit a guy on fire with the batmobile's exhaust for kicks. He strapped a bundle of dynamite to a guy's chest and grinned before he got blown into chunky salsa. He spooked Penguin into a fatal fall with a cloud of bats.

Burton's Batman is as unhinged and homicidal as his villains. He just is more discriminate in his killings, restricting them to the scum of society. The ONLY time he showed any concern over killing a criminal was when he was trying to convince Catwoman not to...because he had fallen in love with her and didn't want her to become like him.

Don't get me wrong. I love Burton's Batman, and it'll always have a soft spot in my heart. But to say he's not a flat out murderer is just false.

uh, no

SM3 was a fight between Raimi and the Sony execs/producers who wanted to shoehorn Venom into the film. which he didn't want, he wanted to center it around Sandman but had to comply with their wishes and that's why the film has so many drastic, shitty tonal shifts.

I still think the neon colored Voodoo street gang is rad as fuck. Why they never got made into a thing the comics I'll never understand, perfect antagonists for Robin ongoing book as Batman Beyond Jokerz type background cannon fodder

You can scarcely see what's going on

I'm not sure where the fuck this Venom feud meme is coming from. People constantly asked Raimi when he was doing Venom but he didn't want to because he doesn't like the character but by the third movie he did it anyway just to give the fans what they want because the movies were so successful.

Raimi has been open about what a great relationship he had with Sony and the decision to cancel Spidey 4 and leave was completely mutual. He said good things about the ASM movies and even said he would be willing to come back and work with the same studio again if everything lined up right.

I think the same.

I liked Carrey's energetic performance honestly, but it wasn't the right character. I'm not saying or sure Joker would work either but Riddler didn't seem to do much Riddling and seemed just off in general.

Jones' Twoface was debatable. He brought a similarly corny approach that I honestly could find enjoyable at times just from how oddball it was but because he likewise didn't seem to have a character point besides being a crazy guy with a gimmick it felt again like something was off.

Something I'm less brave to admit is I actually like Kilmer's Batman. There's something beautiful about it that makes the dark contrast work. Just look how pretty his face is compared to the black sheen of his costume. It's like Femto from Berserk, of course Femto made his appearance before this. No comment on Robin, he was sort of just there.

....I've never accused anyone of actively shilling before, but you actually sound like a Sony Shill right now, dawg.

Jim Carrey on working with Jones:

>"I was really looking forward to working with Tommy because he was a fantastic actor, and he still is. I love him. I mean, he's amazing. But he was a little crusty…I think he was just a little freaked out because Dumb and Dumber had come out on the same weekend as Cobb, and Cobb was his big swing for the fences--pardon the pun. And that didn't work out, and it freaked him out. I think it made him--I walked into a restaurant the night before our big scene in the Riddler's lair and the maître d said, 'You're working with Tommy Lee Jones, aren't you?' I said, 'I am.' He said, 'He's in the back corner.' I said, 'Oh, great. I'll go say hello.' And I went up to say hi and the blood drained from his face in such a way that I realized that I had become the face of his pain or something. And he got kind of shaking and hugged me and said, 'I hate you. I really don't like you.' And I was like, 'Wow, okay, what's going on, man?' And he said, 'I cannot sanction your buffoonery.'"

Is that actually true? That's pretty creepy.

>"I cannot sanction your buffoonery"
>but I will act like a buffoon as soon as the Director says action

what kind of city builds heads into the sides of buildings?

The one in white is Drew,

Carrey was playing the Joker we need here

Batman Returns does have some pretty dedicated fans. Moreso than I have seen for either of the Shumaker films.

A city with "Goth" in the name