>Oy vey goyim, have you pre-ordered your 10 Copies of Civil War II™ #5 yet? If you don't you're literally the cancer that lets actual good books like The Vision™, Contest of Champions™, and New Avengers™ to get cancelled you know?
Where does Bendis get the balls to ask for this?
This just passive aggressively blaming the customer for Marvel's failures.
>Reminder than when Bendis said "a truly wonderful, promising or crackling comic" he really means "a Marvel Comic"
Only them and DC only cares about sales numbers to cancel titles.
well the people didn't want it as proven by the shitty sales numbers
>Almost every week a truly wonderful, promising or crackling comic gets ignored & cancelled.
Maybe you guys should stop releasing 80 fucking books in one Month so gems like Vision don't get crushed under complete crap.
Go, maybe all of Marvel's comics will be cancelled. There's nothing good except Moon Knight, TA Hulk, and Carnage.
You guys should be posting this stuff on his twitter
Jesus Christ I am laughing so hard right now my god
>Only them and DC only cares about sales numbers to cancel titles.
Everyone who pays for publishing cares about sales numbers to cancel titles. This includes indie titles, where the creators are paying to publish their titles. You don't think they'd stop tossing their money away and stop making and printing their comic if they didn't think it was worthwhile for them anymore if just a dozen people bought their comic?
>WHERE DOES THIS COMIC WRITER GET THE BALLS TO ASK PEOPLE TO SUPPORT HIS LIVELIHOOD?
You're approaching Bendis levels of consistencey here bud.
Maybe not having 20+ titles a month so I'm not dropping 40+ dollars a month. Maybe they should turn some of the smaller books or ideas into "novels" and not bother serializing it?
>preordering
>comics
KEK
Retailers can't afford to have extra stock of books. Since they are paying upfront for everything with no returnability, they have to be very careful with their numbers. Otherwise it's a slow death of a thousand cuts.
If you pre-order, your retailer knows better what numbers to order and can ensure they have enough. I know my retailer orders closely to what sells, but is constantly adjusting downwards. Sometimes he sells out, sometimes he doesn't. Books usually don't get more popular over time, just on a constant decline.
I mean I agree with him, but if it comes down to comics I care enough about to preorder and try to keep it alive, it's not gonna be a Bendis book.
what about those who might have wanted it but never even found out the comic existed?
If this were said by anybody other than Bendis, Sup Forums would be 100% supporting them
You're a faggot
No we won't. Peter David said the same thing years ago
It's not wrong to explain the system but he's trying to shame fans for the fact that Marvel can't market their books properly. It's stupid.
I do agree, I keep a pull list both because there's no way my shop would order stuff like Sheriff of Babylon normally and for stuff like New Super-Man where I could probably pick up a copy without having it on my list but want to throw my full support behind it.
On the other hand, if this is a subtle "pls buy our books" concerning low pre-orders for the Marvel NOWer books, he can go fuck himself.
I wonder if this is damage control for Tom King's recent tweet where he said he went DC exclusive because of Visions cancellation.
Link?
Someone reply to this with something like "Good call, I need to add New Superman and Detective Comics to my pull list. Thanks Michael!"
twitter.com
>Q: @TomKingTK the talent's obviously there but do you think the proposed canceling sparked the chain of events that led to your DC exclusivity?
For sure. Cancellation changed how I wrote Vision 1. Vision 1 was the game changer, career wise. In retrospect.
Of course it's not, dummy. Look at the times
>King's post: Aug 30
>Bendis' post: Aug 28
Fair enough, still looks like Marvel drove King away rather than DC luring him.
I know it's from the Outhouse, but it expresses how I feel so well:
>>For smaller publishers, the ones who operate inside the superhero industrial complex set up by Marvel, DC, and Diamond, 20,000 can be a great number, but for Marvel and DC, that's near cancellation territory. And that brings us back to the original point of all this, which is the idea that it's your job, as a reader, to save comics from cancellation. That if you don't buy a Previews catalog, research all of the comics coming out two months from now, and then tell your retailer you want to buy one so that your retailer can purchase an extra copy from Marvel that month and Marvel can brag about it in a press release, it's your fault when the comic is canceled.
>>I propose a different hypothesis: it's Marvel's fucking fault when Marvel doesn't sell enough comics. It's Marvel's fault they didn't promote Nighthawk well enough to get retailers to buy enough copies of it. It's Marvel's fucking fault specialty shops are the only stores that buy Nighthawk comics in the first place. It's Marvel's fucking fault that instead of millions of people reading comics, there are less than 100,000. All of this is Marvel's fault, not yours or mine, and the propensity of comic book creators to guilt trip fans about preordering has to be classified as some kind of weird version of Stockholm syndrome.
>>The same thing applies sometimes to fans, who are constantly pressured by the industry to feel responsible for sales numbers and pass along that attitude to their peers. Don't want to see your favorite character's book canceled? Well, you better preorder and tell all your friends to preorder too. Want to see more diversity in comics? You'd better buy whatever half-hearted attempt at cashing in on diversity Marvel is promoting this month whether you enjoy reading it or not, or else they might get the idea that comic book readers don't like diversity, and that would be your fault, you see. Don't want to see your favorite artist die alone in poverty after creating some of the most successful intellectual properties in the history of American pop culture? Well, you'd better keep shelling out $4.99 for those comics Marvel is giving them a 1% cut of, or that's your fault too.
>>Can you imagine if Coca-Cola's strategy to get you to buy soda was to guilt trip you into believing they'll have to cancel Sprite if you don't let your supermarket know to order three cases of it for you in advance this month? This shit wouldn't fly in any other industry, but in comics, for some reason, we all just accept it as if it isn't completely fucking insane.
>>The direct market did a great job of increasing Marvel's profits in the short term, because Marvel had decades worth of equity built up in terms of interest in comic books from people who were introduced to them at news stands, pharmacies, and grocery stores. But as the readership dwindled, with no pathway to bring in new readers, Marvel has had to continuously jack up the price of comics in order to continue to see profit growth from fewer sales. Those jacked up prices in turn make comics even less attractive to new readers and some of the existing ones, causing the readership to shrink further with no chance of growth. New opportunities to replicate the model of the grocery store, such as digital comics, are hampered by a desire not to undercut the direct market, so digital comics remain as prohibitively expensive as paper ones, but with a lot less of the charm.
>>The result of all of this is that we are living in an age when the properties created by comics are experiencing an unprecedented level of popularity in movies, TV shows, toys, video games, and merchandise, but the entire regular readership of comics is less than the population of Davenport, Iowa, and the absolute ceiling, we're talking for a comic that has 100 variant covers and got into all the Loot Crates, is Yonkers, New York.
>>So the next time some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker deeply entrenched in the comics establishment lectures you on Twitter about how it's your responsibility to keep the comics you love afloat, politely let him know that it is, in fact, Marvel's job to sell comics, not yours, and for the past twenty years, they've been doing an absolutely awful job at it, regardless of their increasing profit margin.
It's a valid point I'd never considered. Hell, I am pulling multiple Titans because I don't want to lose Wally again.
It's especially silly considering the existence of Marvel Unlimited.
I paid for a year already, why would I pay again for comics that will show there before that time is up?
Reprints I get, but buying floppies makes no sense to me.
Wouldn't that be Omega Men's cancellation? If cancellation changed how he wrote the first issue it couldn't have been vision under the cancellation threat.
>Outhousers shitting on Marvel
What a time to be alive.
DC really did make the right move by having their relaunch spread out over 4 months. They loaded the first month with guaranteed sellers like Batman, Superman and the like and used it to promote smaller books. It's so incredibly clever that I'm surprised it came from DC
It's confusing. But I can't imagine it's Omega Men since he is talking about why he went DC exclusive and then specifically names Vision.
>I am pulling multiple Titans because I don't want to lose Wally again.
Don't do that man. I did it for Omega Men and Prez and it didn't help (Complaining like a massive fag helped Omega Men though and I do it again)
>>Ol' Jude Terror has a counter proposal to the Brian Bendis method of saving comics: only buy comics you want to read, buy them in the format you prefer (trade paperback, digital, discounted back issue), and make the decision to buy them whenever you feel like, not based on Diamond's final order cut off. And if books are canceled and the industry declines because of that, then maybe that's exactly what the industry needs in order to learn that it's their responsibility to evolve their business model to meet the needs of the market, not the other way around.
>>I'm not calling for a return to the glory days of the news stand and grocery store rack. That ship has sailed. What comics needs to grow is a fresh idea, something new, and something affordable and attractive to a wider audience, and as soon as we all stop enabling publishers to live greedily in the past, they might be forced to start looking for those new ideas instead of blaming you for their failures. Then, and only then, will comics evolve into the 21st century.
>>Which is why I say: die, industry, die. Die, and be reborn as something less myopic. Honestly, it's for your own good.
He could've been referring to glancing back at the first issue and reassessing his priorities.
>It's Marvel's fucking fault that instead of millions of people reading comics, there are less than 100,000.
THIS, THIS, MOTHERFUCKING THIS
And don't worry, I absolutely blame DC, too. Fuck them. The fact that, in like 10 years when superhero movies struggle to hit 1bil worldwide, comics will *still* be as popular as they are right now is fucking insanity. We'll *still* live in a world where Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc. sell about 100k copies per issue.
Ridiculous. And yeah, this has probably incited me not to even bother buying comics anymore, more than I even had before.
That tweet had to do with omega men's cancellation, not Visions.
I think dropping the price was another really smart move. Marvel keeps jacking up the price for CWII and nobody wants that shit.
I think he was realistic about how long Omega Men would last. There was probably a big deal war behind the scenes between DC and Marvel for King but DC offered him Batman and in comic land Marvel has nothing that challenges the Bat
What valid point? That if you want to see your favorite character stay relevant you should buy the book? Oh what a horrible thought!
If Bendis hasn't already blocked you, you're a casual
that's what marvel's done with ANAD and most of their brand launches
a lot of the problem comes from having too many books and too many c-z listers at too high a price, along with prices in general being too high
3.99 and even 2.99 is absurd for how shit floppies are but can't do much about it
>Don't do that man.
I just don't want to see my main man erased from existence for another half a decade.
It makes sense if he's talking stability. I assume he was freelancing on Grayson and Omega Men and Vision. Losing OM would have been a big blow to his paycheck and he has kids. Therefore he was much more open to steady paycheck and benefits that comes with exclusivity.
>in like 10 years when superhero movies struggle to hit 1bil worldwide,
It will be less than 10 years. Marvel can't make a Billion without Iron Man. No Marvel movie has broke 800mil without him. It's why he's being forced into Doctor Strange and the Spider-Man movie
I heard that giving people too many choices is actually a bad thing.
Like they can see 10 or 20 titles and decide to pick some of them but when they see over 50 that's too much too even bother for some people.
How many DC and Marvel titles come out per month?
Your love alone can't save him. You have to realize that. I get where you're coming from, but sometimes you have to let something you love die. You can't do it alone.
What will you do next? Write a letter to DC saying you'll fund the entire cost of creating and printing and distributing the comic so it continues?
Oh no, I forgot to pre-order Bendis's Civil War 2. Oh how will my life ever go knowing I didn't support Bendis. How will I ever live with myself.
I think for a lot of people Avengers or Spider-Man (specifically ASM) would
Yeah DC had about 32 titles but Marvel had about 80. How is anybody supposed to keep track of 80 books?
But even buying that book doesn't work because you have to pre-order. And even then, you don't know if the character will just be around for like a panel.
This is why I hope DCYou and the H-B lines stay small.
>What valid point? That if you want to see your favorite character stay relevant you should buy the book? Oh what a horrible thought!
The publishing company should produce something you want to buy. You shouldn't have to buy it.
You would be wrong. Spider-Man sells about half what Batman does these days
Contest of Champions sucked.
Vision was only good because it's story was formulated to be finite.
And New Avengers was filler to keep track of established Avenger characters and plotlines that needed to be resolved and retired before throwing them away into the great storyhole.
>It's why he's being forced into Doctor Strange
When did this happen?
In July 130 Marvel books were published, while DC published 94. DC sold 44% of the market share that month.
Remember when DC canceled the Starman Omnis after two had already been released because of lack of pre-orders.
Who fucking cares? It's about the prestige and love of the character not extremely minor niche fame at least for someone like King
A while ago.
Fuck! Bendis is right.
EVERYONE! BE SURE TO PREORDER YOUNG ANIMAL TITLES AT YOUR RETAILER! LET'S DO THIS!
i said a lot of the problem is too many books
and nobody is meant to keep track
it's just them throwing shit against the wall because they can, and keep the ones that kinda stick
a lot of the new stuff they're trying is probably just meant to get a character out there for ip purposes since comics in general are just ip farms now
I just went through the Marvel Previews that comes out tomorrow.
I only counted comic books, no trades, etc.
85 books. Total cost would be $347.15 to buy them all. 71 for $3.99 each, 11 for $4.99 each, and 3 $3.99 books (the cartoon adaptation ones).
...
DC has 30 Rebirth books. Marvel had about 73 after Secret Wars which is just absurd
>It's about the prestige and love of the character
And Batman clearly wins out
If you're a dedicated reader you already have a pull list set up.
They do, in hopes that you buy it. They're publishing countless books for characterfags. Even shit like Legend of Tomorrow anthology exist because people want to read about those characters and publishers hope that it sells.
Royalties care user.
I like Batman and Spider-man, I'd go with the money.
The only established Avenger on New was Hawkeye. Did you even read the book?
You should up DC's number since they are double-shipping many of those books.
>dedicated reader
Facepalm.jpg
>The publishing company should produce something you want to buy. You shouldn't have to buy it.
Bingo.
I'm so sick of these writers on their high horses with issues that are just buildup for future issues endlessly! Give us stories we want to read now! Don't bullshit us!
No. We're talking about the amount of titles not issues. If you want to go that route I would have to increase the Marvel numbers even more as well
So, I've been to two LCS's pre and post moving. And I gotta say, Pre-ordering just baffles them. My first shop was self owned and all that, and the guy got confused whenever I tried to modify my list that he would forget titles or add titles that weren't what I asked for. Currently I go to a Newberry comics, and they seem to be more clueless about pre-orders.
It's not an easy system at all.
>people thinking King went with DC because of Batman, or because Marvel couldn't offer him any "good characters"
lmao
Have you read like *anything* King has written?
It's clear as day that the reason he chose DC is because Marvel (at least right now) is a fucking shitshow in terms of management. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Marvel offered him something really good but he simply said, "You know what? I liked working with Mark Doyle; I liked working with Tim Seeley; DC management as a whole isn't perfect, but talking with Geoff Johns is making me hopeful for the best. I think I'll stick with them."
Well I counted earlier there are 85 books for Marvel in November. Count through the DC solicits and see?
DC may have less titles, but shipping them more frequently still causes the same problems. People have to buy 2 issues of Detective (or whatever) in the same timespan of 1 of another comic. People can only buy so many comics in a week, or a month, or whatever.
Every time I start to follow more than a handful of titles and start thinking about starting a pull list they all get cancelled or change to horrible writers/artists. I've gotten superstitious about it at this point.
I'm scared because Rebirth has me buying a lot of books.
Figure it out, your ignorance might cost BMB a meal.
I make a note about the titles! I'm pretty clear about it.
Or it could be he was offered Batman. You know, the title that all the percentages on the sales reports are based on?
see: >for a lot of people
Fucking Batfags
You fucking kidding me here?
Squirrelgirl was on the post CivilWar/pre Skrull invasion New Avengers team, the two gay Young Avengers from that team, Sunspot was an official Avenger in the SecretWars buildup "time runs out", Screeming Mimi there was declaired a future Avenger by Kang in the time-adventure miniseries that gave us the last male Captain Marvel, White Tiger was from The Mighty Avengers team run by Luke Cage, and A.I.M. became an Avengers ally in "time runs out".
Those are all Avengers and related plot threads.
And Hawkeye was there working for S.H.I.E.L.D., he was the only one not working as an Avenger.
>He wanted really insignificant fame guys
>Marvel is fine
>Marvel fucks up
>There are still people who blames Dan Didio for it
Never change OH.
>they'llprobablyblamemeforthistoo.jpg
Insignificant? Being able to do a Batman arc is a pretty big deal, especially since he won't have to worry about cancellation anytime soon.
And Marvel is in the shitter.
Oh fuck off retard. Batman sells a lot more than other capes and if you're a new writer you want to get your name out there so of course you will pick Batman
Is he the hero Sup Forumsmics deserve?
>Keeps lower selling titles going
>Story over continuity
>Only the best stories will be canon
thank you based didio
DC also pays it's writers more than Marvel
Batman obviously sweetened the deal and likely locked him in, but to imply Marvel had a shot at getting King seems ridiculous to me
I remember when Sup Forums hated him. He truly has turned things around though.
I almost swear the Outhousers guys post on Sup Forums.
I think the success of rebirth and subsequent shite that marvel has been peddling colours views a bit.
King signed exclusive before rebirth dropped and DC clearly didn't predict Rebirth would be this successful.
Sup Forums falls too easily for memes. Its still recovering from "lol 90s".
a bit outdated (Just last year) but Artists also enjoy working on DC more a bit more than the other publishers.