Basic income

I will show you now why there should be a basic income.

proof me wrong
>protip: you can't

Look at it from this point: There is no free will, the world is somehow deterministic or coincidence. You are a product of your genes and environment.

So every successfull person was lucky, maybe they have got good genes, maybe a good environment, or a lucky moment.

You see, no one is really responsible for anything, why should there be people who have more money than 50% of the population.

Why do you think it is okay to make laws to protect lucky people but poor people can't use their capacites ( maybe more sociopathic because of their upbringing so better at taking your stuff and killing you for your money)

So if you make laws to protect lucky people and on the other hand even make laws to hinder the unlucky poor (not stealing, not killing, or even things like not being able to hunt or to just go out and build a house) you have to give them atleast shelter and enough to eat as bare minimum.

If you don't want to do that, than be atleast fair and make everything legal, also killing and stealing, because who are you to say your talents are worth more.

It's surviving of the fittest and now shut up give me some money or I will come and take everything.

Of course, important people should get more money like doctors, engineers etc but everything needs limits. Because you either make limits for everyone or for no one.

I concur OP, you are definitely one of the smartest guys on pol, your logic is infallible.

I haven't seen this quality content in months.

Thanks for making my day

You're welcome, I always love the idea of brighening someones day.

I've never looked at this from your point of view op and I really have to say that your words have persuaded me.

Today Op is not a faggot

ckecked and yes definitely not

Are you serious?

kek

not an argument

No seriously, what did I say that makes you question my logic?

You're fucking talking to your self redditfag

Why does there appear (you) behind all posts? Are they all (jews) and don't really concur?

basic income -> market controls -> higher inequality in property ownership -> restrictions on property rights -> government seizure of property -> totalitarianism

fuck off china

How do you know there is no free will. That's a big assumption to base an economic argument off of.

>I should be given things simply for existing
Fuck off, parasite.

Basic income will be a reality one day, maybe in our lifetimes. But first. we need to start genetically engineering people with sub 100 IQs out of existence. Then, we need automation to be able to do the majority of our jobs that we have today.

Of course I talk to myself, don't you talk to yourself? The act of thinking itself is a kind of talking to yourself. But I don't see why you would bring that up in my thread

sage this dumbass thread

He told you, read the next sentence you fag. Your actions can be derived form your genes and also form your environment, hence no free will.

lol IDK that's weird!

I genuinely don't understand this. If basic income happened, money would be pointless. We would rely on the government so much they would control us. It's not an argument of what is right or wrong. Of course it would be nice to give everyone free money, but if everyone got enough money to live well without work, humanities progress would literally grind to a halt.

muuuh Bill Gates, fucker just got an genius iq for existing. Wooow give me an iq of 160, a nice upbringing and I will give you the same things he did.
oh no really worked hard for that intelligence.

How could there be a free will. You don't even need to do much studies, even they are doing them. Just observe yourself, see how ideas, thoughts and everything just pop up in your head, how much your environment has influenced you and how many similarities you have with your parents. And last but not least, remember all those times you had to decide something, that feeling that just comes and you know you have already taken a decision

I think that is a plausible possibility, Op you really have nice cognitive skills. If I would have to find a solution for that riddle, it would have taken me ages. thanks op

>Look at it from this point: There is no free will, the world is somehow deterministic or coincidence. You are a product of your genes and enviro
Appeal to nature

>So every successfull person was lucky, maybe they have got good genes, maybe a good environment, or a lucky moment. You see, no one is really responsible for anything
Gamblers fallacy, I believe

>Why do you think it is okay to make laws to protect lucky people but poor people can't use their capacites
You shouldn't assume your opposition's stance if it has not been provided by them

>So if you make laws to protect lucky people and on the other hand even make laws to hinder the unlucky poor (not stealing, not killing, or even things like not being able to hunt or to just go out and build a house) you have to give them atleast shelter and enough to eat as bare minimum.
No you don't.

>If you don't want to do that, than be atleast fair and make everything legal, also killing and stealing, because who are you to say your talents are worth more.
No thanks, I'm not an anarchist.

>It's surviving of the fittest and now shut up give me some money or I will come and take everything.
Gibsmedat

>Of course, important people should get more money like doctors, engineers etc but everything needs limits. Because you either make limits for everyone or for no one.
That last part makes sense, so why not just limit everyone? I know a dude who's got no arms and legs, it's not fair he has none. Let's make it so no one does, for the sake of fairness!

4/10, made me take the bait

>Market controls
No, the welfare system we have now is much, much worse as far as market controls go. In the current system the government not only redistributes wealth, they have strict rules regarding how the recipient can spend that wealth. UBI allows for the removal of other more invasive methods of state control, and a total removal of the welfare state is politically infeasible. If you're seeking a reduction in government control of the market, UBI is a much more viable alternative.

dude what are you doing?

I concur. And bombing the middle east and taking out every muslim is the first step

That's not proof of no free will. In sorry but it's not. It may be a good way to predict what someone will do, but until I see two people with the exact same genes, raised in the exact same way, respond to stimulus in the EXACT same way, I will believe that some kind of freedom exist. No one has proven otherwise.

Not an argument.
Why not start your own business and make your own fortune instead of wasting your time shitposting on an anonymous Atlantean basket weaving forum?

Why don't you?

iff UBI replaces the entire wealth redistribution functions of the government. i think controls would be inevitable in that context?

Holy fuck op you made my day.
Kanpai lads

commenting your last part. Why we shouldn't make it like him, because he is an exeption. he is not the norm.
We should create a society that favours the average person and those 1% are not the norm.

Because I have lazy genetics. look it up there are genes that make you lazy. I just want an decent life but society has created a wageslave vicious cycle.

Nowadays it should be possible to work just 4 hours a day to have a roof and enough to eat and some extras.

I concur OP, why are you so intelligent? I one day wish to be just like you, and fall in love with you, and have all your children with basic income for you

England 2016
Free education online and at School
Some choose to not learn - become unemployed and no qualifications
Some choose to learn - good job and grades

A: There is a limit on 99% stuff on this world and its the same one for everyone.

Now tell me where they were unlucky and where they choose to be idle and not try.

*Do note that there is a fair argument for minimum wage, but that one is flawed.

You could just implement it as a negative income tax credit. Anyone below an inflationary tethered income level receives a tax refund to bring them up to a universal income level. Repeal all other methods of government assistance. Voila, a social safety net with no government controls beyond redistribution.

Basic income is way better than minimum wage.

Where does the money for basic income come from? Is it magic?

why am I sol intelligent? Pure luck, I have just had lucky to be born with good genes.

You see how this world view would lead to worldpeace? If no one is accountable, how could anyone develop the feeling of being superior.

You see you, me, Bill Gates are all equals, just a product of life.

Because I dont need to be a billionaire to be happy. I make 80K a year and I live comfortably within my means. Im on track to make over 100K in the next 5 years and with the rate I save, I'll be on track to retire by 55.
I make not because I'm a genius or life dealt me a good hand (neither of which are true), but because I busted my ass in college and worked hard at the crap jobs that lead me to my current one.
>Because I have lazy genetics.
What a pathetic excuse. Good things dont come to the lazy.
>Nowadays it should be possible to work just 4 hours a day to have a roof and enough to eat and some extras.
It is, you just have to bust your ass for a few years to get to that position.

You're a fucking retard, if you want to advocate a basic income just assert the Georgist position of common land ownership and free market capitalism. Faggot.

Fuck off I had enough of fucking communism for 1000 millenia.

You're soooooooo smart OP! One day, we can fuck while discussing the basic principles of free college ok?

I concur, Op really seems like an intelligent person. I've looked up where he comes from, Luxembourg, maybe it is because they all grow up learning multiple languages so their brain gets better stimualted. Thank you Op without you I would have never seen the causality of your intelligence, now I just know you are born smart

>Pure luck, I have just had lucky to be born with good genes.
So you're saying black people are genetically dumber and more violent?

IDK if real newfag or good joke.

>implying "money to spend" still wouldn't be the biggest factor

>It's Forward

the fuck are you doing OP?

k i don't think i'm going to change my mind on this BUT i want to know when you think in a person's life the federal government should start supporting them? if this was a successful plan it would probably skew wealth away from young people, right?

First of all, we now entered a stage where machines help us producing a lot. So priority would be to direct these technological advances in a direction to satisfy the basic needs, like shelter, food. I bet we could create a world where people just have to work 2 hours a WEEK just to provide everyone with food and shelter.

Now everyone has enough to eat and shelter people can use their freetime to do whatever you want. And because many people are highly intelligent they need to get stimulated so they further technology and what ever and in a few hundred years we can have a nearly completely automated world where everyone can get everything

i hate this image survival is FUN and NECESSARY

It's not a matter of deserving, but of promoting a stable and prosperous society. Does basic income do that? No, then dump it.

Why are these things always made by people who have never had a shit job, or usually a job at all?

>enjoyment
Most jobs aren't enjoyable.
>Self improvement
Most jobs don't offer that either.
>Meet people and help community
Most jobs are not good for those either, and many people don't care for them.

If they replaced "money to live" with "more money to buy cool shit too expensive for basic income" it'd make more sense.

yes
It is not their fault, are mad at apes throwing shit at you? no you put them in cages kek

wtf I m a newfag now

Age of 18, with the threshold calculated on total household income. There's no reason to assume the plan would skew wealth away from the young, given that they're more likely to have a lower income than other age groups.

see

We already kind of do that with Social Security.

The best argument against this is what is currently happening in the West. Don't you think that people joining bullshit courses in university, not knowing how to cook or drive and being in general passive consumers of everything somebody else has made and worthless and skilless cunts are the result of survival being easier and easier? You didn't even need basic income to achieve that.

The result:
- Young people are unhappier than ever;
- Young people are more individualistic than ever;
- Young people are more anti-social than ever;
- Young people don't care about their communities.

We all know its you op you fucking nigger

Dont know whos more retarded. OP with le ebin bait thread or the retards indulging him and replying.

Wtf I love niggers now

>Look at it from this point: There is no free will, the world is somehow deterministic or coincidence. You are a product of your genes and environment.
This is irrelevant. Government treats individuals as self willed actors to have law be applicable. If you were to completely separate actions from consequences, you would be creating a system that fails to reward logical restraint, and fails to punish poor decision making thus making it inherently unsustainable.

>Why do you think it is okay to make laws to protect lucky people but poor people can't use their capacites
Because government under social contract acts as a game rule setter. To have any effective economy, people must be free to specialize and secure resources to survive and prosper. Therefore rules must be in place to protect life and property.

>If you don't want to do that, than be atleast fair and make everything legal, also killing and stealing, because who are you to say your talents are worth more.
If you were to make everything legal, or simply do away with law, you would eventually create defacto governments because rule setting is extremely productive, while anarchy begets chaos and uncertainty which are unproductive.


>It's surviving of the fittest and now shut up give me some money or I will come and take everything.
What is money? Why would force be on the side of the poor?

>

>Of course, important people should get more money like doctors, engineers etc but everything needs limits. Because you either make limits for everyone or for no one.
But you just claimed that others are not responsible for their productivity. Why should they?


Also, how exactly is this an argument for universal income? I don't see the connection.

Life's not a strategy videogame. Food and shelter are not nearly enough and you know that. Also, food and shelter are broad categories, not an homogeneous good. When people have free time to do whatever they want, they will mostly entertain themselves (what is happening atm the young people actually), which will include pursuing intellectual and artistic activities, sure, but in a complete unsystematic way (they will achieve nothing, in other words). Those who have a tendency, talent and passion to produce great works are either already working on them atm or will work on them regardless of financial circumstances. The greatest Portuguese poet of all time starved while he was writing his epic and this was almost 500 years ago. Will you tell me it's harder to survive now?

Oh shit nigger, what are you doing?

kek

But why do they do these stupid courses? because our society has told us that you have to.

Imaging if these people dont feel the need to do some stupid, then only smart people will go to university. And the others? Most people want to do something. So even if they enough money to survive, most people will at least work a few hours, either to get a bit more money or because they need to occupy their shitbrain. And other people will do what they love and blossom.

I agree with it in theory as a replacement for all government assistance including healthcare provisions but it would require an ethnically and culturally homogeneous society with incredibly tight immigration rules.

>no one is really responsible for anything
This should be the universal leftist motto

They'll die out and the problem solves itself.

Op i think you just persuaded me to get a bull for my wife's daughter. I love niggers too now thanks op

Under basic income, you don't need a job anymore. You can be a creator instead.

Another boring Sunday in Lux, eh OP?

What's the end goal of civilization? Is it best to have everyone going to a job they hate every week, just checking into a prison for 40 hours just because that's the way we've always done it?

>First of all, we now entered a stage where machines help us producing a lot. So priority would be to direct these technological advances in a direction to satisfy the basic needs, like shelter, food. I bet we could create a world where people just have to work 2 hours a WEEK just to provide everyone with food and shelter.

Your system is shit. I guess you can "pay" the machines and tax their income from labor 100% so there would be an "automation tax" from industries.

further, your world would consist of non-skilled, over "educated" people being "assistant co-directing managing associate substitute vice supervisors" an other middle-management derivative shit. The only labor would be people policing one another, belittling and micromanaging each other and otherwise making life a living hell- even for 2 hours a week.

There is also no point for having income when there is no work and no gains. Might as well close the automated factories and open luxury suicide resorts.

>Truth is irrelevant because muh government
Who said we can't get a paradigm change?

They should get more money because they are more important for the whole society.
Even if everyone is equal, in the way that no one is responsible for his situation, it doesn't mean everyone is equally important.

Doctors are people, which everyone profits from, therefor they should get more money, but it needs to have limits.

Look at youtube stars who make millions money, are you kidding me?

No, it hasn't. Society ranks individuals and those who are at the top tend to be college graduates. People just want to join the lot, which is different from being told to do it.
Also, by bullshit courses, I meant mostly those on social sciences, which are exactly the people who usually spout the same bullshit you are spouting.

Again, most people would not blossom. They would spend all day consuming entertainment.

That's actually one of the main reasons I'm for it. Because the poor want it, and by wanting it they have to also vote to throw out pedro and vote for a white ethnostate. It is an easy way to sneak nationalism and racial homogeneity in under the radar.

>And because many people are highly intelligent they need to get stimulated so they further technology, blah, blah, blah
no. Most people are NOT intelligent. Further, some intelligent people have mental illness and drug problems. The world if being run on very little mental capital. The rest consists of poor bottom feeders who cannot do better.

You're not going to find some intelligence goldmine in Sub-Saharan Africa or Central America. They won't be able to do much and your "basic income" scheme would kill the last of their efforts to at least have cultural ritual and significance.

In your world, everyone would stay home, drink a refreshing Coke™, get fat and shitpost online all day.

We all don't want to be you.

This would be an interesting conversation for night Sup Forums. It would also be mildly interesting right now if the toothpaste poster didn't turn his own thread into a shitposting thread.

There is a whole book about it, Tittytainment.
If we direct our technology in providing the bare minimum, most people don't need to blossom.
20 % of society can sustain 80% of society. So even if most people dont blossom, there still will be many people who will blossom and further our wolrd

The shitposts between are just for the the subhumans, so that they too have some stimulation. You see I know they cant for their intellectual inferiority so I have empathy

So you are agreeing with me. You would create a society of worthless parasites. Tell me how that is stable and prosperous. Start by telling me how happy the 20% would feel.

Retard toothpaste, for any larger organization to function standards must be adhered to allow action to occur and information to be exchanged.

If I decided to invent my own system of measures and currency, it would have no useful value if others did not accept the measures or currency I define.

In legal context, if you were to have laws that lack definition or interpretation, you would have an unworkable system.

>They should get more money because they are more important for the whole society.
Says who and why?

>it doesn't mean everyone is equally important.
They why do they deserve anything?


>Doctors are people, which everyone profits from
This could apply to virtually any profession at any time for any reason. For instance, the bus driver that gets the doctor to the hospital could arguably be more important than the doctor.


But seriously, what is your point?

Oh shut the fuck up. You're the retard that shitted up your own thread responding to yourself.

inb4 I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED

So you want to tell me that there is no objective measurement of value.

Value is proportional to the number of people who benefit from it and the importance ( surviving)

A doctor who saves lives has definitely more worth for society than for example theamazingatheist who puts bananas in his ass and gets paid for going on rants kek (he is funny though no front)

so a doctor should get more money but it cant be too exaggerated. Look at justin bieber he gets fucking billions, we should kill hiim

Did someone say FORWARD?

Since there is no free will it's not my fault for being a greedy fuck and not letting you have any of my money for your basic income.

you didn't get the point of what I have written in the beginning.

I shitted up my own thread because I could not not do it, I am a retard. But I know that you are also a retard because you didnt get my point so I cant be mad at you goy.
And thats the way of thinking we need to achieve. Find the causation of everything and then find solution instead of just saying muuuuhhh retard I m murican guns boom boom

No country on the face of the planet is prosperous enough to even consider allocating such a large portion of their budget to this.

I don't know about relertarian country like united states, but In general of the first world, social welfare system is complex because it spontaneously (historically) evolved that way.
Human is imperfect. Planning of human is also imperfect.
Basic income is the exact case of artificial social planning, or should I say revolutionary constructivism.
when you find the system fail to rescue someone supposed to be helped by social welfare, just patch the system.
History is nature and not artificial.

I know but if the majority who has to suffer under your greediness will realize that life is a fucking shitgame, they will also not have a free will when they will come and hang you.

Sooner or later, science will bring the evidence and then you have to change your way of thing for your own safety.

Yeah, I WAS PRETENDING TO BE A RETARD is not a defense. If the premise of your thread is so boring or retarded no one wants to partake in it, don't start being retarded to get attention. Fuck off, try again tomorrow. Don't respond to your own posts.

if we bomb the middle east and whole africa I would say it is possible. kek

This doesn't make sense, my toothpaste friend.

Work on fixing all of the other problems in your country before looking to do handouts.

Why would anyone want to be part of the 20%?

Like I already said, I am a retard and the way this thread started could not have altered from my point of view. Maybe now, because you have pointed out that starting a thread with being retarted my brain will stop being retardted the next time. I m sorry for no being responsible

Giving lazy people stuff for free would only give them a greater sense of entitlement.

If we created a technological world where more and more gets automated it's the people with high iqs like OP kek. Smart people like to do things, like to learn, look at all the autism in sci and if they dont have the pressure like nowadays many will engage because it is fun to them. And if we have reached a percentage where only 20% has to work it still a long way.