Is Angelus the best tv villain?

Is Angelus the best tv villain?

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>dude i killed hundreds of people but im friendly now so its ok lmao

It's two different people

It's become so difficult to remember but whedon used to be not completely garbage. Feels like a lifetime ago.

Angel isn't responsible for the acts the demon that took over his body committed. They're two separate entities. Although Spike was basically the same person with or without a soul, which I always found weird

Yes,he really loved his job and done it to the best of his abilities.

I dunno but what he did to Giles teacher gf is top tier fucking with people

Not sure, but he is certainly right here at the top. Too lazy to try remember a better one right now

He was ok on buffy. But on angel his comeback was so lame and boring.

>It's two different people
>They're two separate entities
Are they really though? Angel is just Angelus + Soul, it's still the same demon.

And I prefer Spoike to Angelus.

The seeds of garbage were there though.
The way he ended buffy for example with all the female slayers, the dark willow half assed season.

The day he started to believe what Feminists Bloggers wrote about him, it was over for him as a writer.

Unironically this but Whedon pussied himself out of it with the whole with vs without soul BS.

Vampire diaries is a 1000 times worse in this respect.

>Just killed some innocent people but it's totally okay I don't feel like being evil anymore. Come here you silly high school girl who's more than a 100 years younger than I, let's kiss and cuddle! Oh isn't love great?

>dark willow

Don't you dare criticize this!!!

MFW watching this as a kid. MFW I have no face.

First three seasons of TVD are better than any buffy or angel season.

Yes.. Angel was also a way better show than Buffy and really is up there with Breaking Bad, imo.

Really great character development, high stakes.

Uh
No sweetie

>First three seasons of TVD are better than any buffy or angel season.

Why?

Also it's implied he raped countless children.

Greenwalt is what made Angel good.

Not by a long shot.

>Greenwalt is what made Angel good.
has he done anything noteable since?

to be fair people like steven de knight worked on angel too

>The way he ended buffy for example with all the female slayers
i liked that. i like shows/movies that put in potential for more but leave it open. it was a good ending.

>The way he ended buffy for example with all the female slayers
How else do you have them win? They would have got kurbstomped without that.

>i liked that
Me too

The soul contains the ego, when Angel's soul inhabits his body he shares it with the demon, but when his soul is gone the demon is free to be as depraved as it likes.

If you were a kid when this aired you don't belong here.

Never ended actually. It's still going on in comic form. Honestly it isn't half bad either. Gets a little wonky here and there, but hey it's Buffy.

Back to the OP, Angelus was a damn good TV villain. I agree that Angelus and Angel are indeed two different beings technically.

>decided to watch Buffy alongside another Angel rewatch
season 4 is so fucking bad, jesus christ

Hate to break it too you, but this place isn't for 30-40 year old losers.

i think once anybody hears or reads about themselves as a creator of something, it's difficult to come back from that. Everyone has their own interpretation, that's the reality and the best thing you can do is to separate yourself from that dissonance, in my opinion.

dawn is way too harshly criticized. she's a good egg she's just a stroppy so and so like most teens. which as a teenager is annoying to watch, you like to think your drama is more important than another teen's drama.

The shows didn't age super well. They can get cringey as fuck, but overall they weren't half bad for the most part.

Greenwalt was shit.

>Never ended actually. It's still going on in comic form. Honestly it isn't half bad either. Gets a little wonky here and there, but hey it's Buffy.

The comics are fucking awful.

Angel's still great, i love the show, but Buffy is for grills and there's really no way around that. 70% of it is Buffy fretting about boys, 25% is quippy adventures with friends and 5% of it is worldbuilding.
God, the first four episodes of Buffy in college is Buffy getting played and Willow becoming a feminist dyke because Oz left. Last episode had Willow refusing to kill an Aztec demon because smallpox blankets were fucked up.

There isn't a single word of that that's true.

I am literally watching it happen right now.

dailymotion.com/video/x4jqko9
34:48

''Would you like me to lie to you now?''

Why did people watch this tripe? It's like some generic One Tree Hill shit with supernatural stuff. It's literally teenage girl with weight issues and weird friends-tier.

Then why lie? People in this thread have seen the shows and know you're lying.

...

mfw

What happens later? She's made out to look like a hypocritical dumbass.

you're not wrong, but I remember what happens later in this season, not to mention the episode before this was about beer that turns frat guys into cavemen, and it's literally just an excuse for Buffy and Willow to vent about boys.
if you're some kind of girl or gay trying to argue with me that Buffy isn't for girls you're kind of missing the point

thats the beautiful thing about spike, he always felt human emotions, even when he had no soul, to the point that he actually went through gruelling trials to get his soul back (the only vampire to ever do so i believe) whereas angel was just cursed with his soul.

angel is my favourite neck snapper

True fact willow was turned into a lesbian because whedon had no fucking idea what to do with her character.

It was a glimpse of the forced diversity we have today.
Really? Shouldn't made more sense to introduce a new gay character Joss?.

Imo season 5 should have been the true ending.

Girls vent about boys. Boys vent about girls. That's hardly the point of the series. You might as well say all Angel is about is him whining about Buffy/Darla/Cordy, Wes and Gunn moping about Fred and Connor.

you're legitimately retarded and I've watched all series. TVD got better later on after they let twilight shit die.

Which is essentially The Originals. Klaus/Elijah are reason those early seasons are like and TVD ripped off Angel.

Never speak this opinion again.

Back then there wasnt much fantasy to watch.

Remember This was pre LOTR 90s.

>whedon had no idea what to do with his favorite character

Where do people get this shit?

Greenwalt also made Grimm which had flavors of Angel in it but it pulled its punches unlike Angel.

Greenwalt knows how to make likable male protagonists.

Whedon drones are insufferable. All three of those shows are shit btw. Also, kill yourself.

That episode was garbage. It was just a ploy to get federal funding, since any show with an anti drinking/drugs message got some money back then. And they didn't even get the funding.

...

>Posting a cheating whore as your retort

Retarded.

That's all season 4 has been about though. The first three episodes are about Buffy getting fucked by some dude and regretting it, then like 5 minutes where the government anti-demon task force is introduced. Meanwhile, Angel is actual building out the universe and introducing demon societies and other shit. It's great.

>it's literally just an excuse for Buffy and Willow to vent about boys.
Buffy drinks the beer and becomes a cave girl.
>buffy's just for girls.
That's very sexist of you user I take it you are to young to have watched this on tv.
And this pissed angle off completely,a lot more then him actually banging the buffstir.

I was 7 years old when it aired I think? I watched it all after Angel went off the air.
You guys need to stop acting like being a gen xer on Sup Forums on is some point of pride. It really isn't.
Also, Buffy is for girls. It's fine, there can be a genre show for girls, still fucking hilarious how assblasted you get about that fact though.

Beer Bad is the worst episode of any Whedon show by a significant length. The comics are absolutely worth reading, the writing keeps the feel super well and it's nice seeing what they coulda done without budgetary and technological constraints.

That's because they were making fun of it. They were pretty much forced by the WB to do it.

How ca n the first 2 episodes be about something that didn't happen until the 3rd?

The soul in the Buffyverse is a restraining collar filled with sense of right and wrong.

The reason why Spike didn't necessarily need a soul was because he loved Buffy and he was a romantic as a human. When he was with Dru he was a killer because Dru was also a killer and they had been doing that for hundreds of years.

Angel/Liam was an unloved drunk before Darla changed him into a sadistic killer. He never knew true love until Buffy which is why the curse broke. The curse was to make Angel suffer with guilt (agony) because vampires in the Buffyverse are supposed to be literal monsters who inhabit human bodies with human memories but not be restrained with morals.

I don't think that's right, I was hardly paying attention though. Let's just say included the 2 episode courting process in "getting fucked by some dude"

>The comics are absolutely worth reading

>dawn is a giant then a horse then a doll
>willow is banging a snake monster
>angel ends the world because of a dog
>buffy is an amoral sociopath
>xander is a stud

>same as the show

That's not even counting the horrible shit that came after s8.

You probably don't remember but whedon had a huge following on early Sup Forums when the board was first created during the Lost days.

They're still buttblasted that whedon's behavior destroyed that.

me too user

It's absolutely right. Just because you can't focus on anything but 5% of the screentime doesn't mean that's what an episode is about.

So much out of context cherry picking. Do you even remember the show? You can easily do the same thing with Angel and Buffy.

Not saying the comics are perfection, but they are worth reading if you like the source material and they are certainly in the same vein as the show the way they are written.

I wasn't paying attention because every time I do Buffy is having an awkward conversation with some handsome lad or Willow is moping about Oz. That's all it's been aside from the writers struggling to find anything for Xander to do

>so far off the show it lost 100K readers and Whedon apologized over it

>certainly in the same vein

Sup Forums is more your board, dark horse shill.

I'll just reiterate that it's not the writers fault you're retarded.

>Angel assuring him in the hospital that his soul is still intact shortly before trying to suffocate him

Jesus, poor Wes. Fred is top waifu but I found his chemistry with Laila more fascinating

isn't this whole season about Buffy getting with Riley and Willow becoming an evil with lesbian?
why are you flat out denying the nature of this season?

So yes a kid ,but that's cool user. I really don't remember a lot of grills being in to it more horny boys to be honest. The girl didn't start stuff like that till twilight. The point off buffy was to give a different slant on the hero. As for genxer shit I have now idea what that is I'm part of the lost generation my man.

So you're one of those aging betas that get off to women doing martial arts? cool, dude.

Hi josh thanks for clearing that up how's JL coming.

But really this guy gets it spike was a lover and passionate always no matters how much he pretended to be billy idol/sid vicious. Angel was always a demon alive or dead.

>tips fadora ,whips out katana and teleports behind you , good day m'lady.
No mate that's definitely not me,but I'm sure that your collection off katana's looks nice next to your Reddit poster.

>isn't this whole season about Buffy getting with Riley and Willow becoming an evil with lesbian?
>why are you flat out denying the nature of this season?

You mean this season?

dude you are literally not allowed to do this after that last post

oh, well if there's a meme episode in the season, I guess that nullifies the overarching plot of the season, point conceded

>the overarching plot of the season

It was pretty dope tbqh famalam

oh right, i was trying to remember the villain for the season and I could only remember Willow.
but this whole argument is just some old nerds not liking my review of the first 7 or so episodes of season 4

Agreed. Angel's redemption is also Liam's redemption. It's his path to humanity, which he already lacked as a human (being a slacker, drunken manwhore). He was simply very flawed as a human from the get go. It's a pretty good redemption story.

oh fuck off you retarded nigger. that user was right in his original post and you're splitting hairs like a little prissy bitch on her period. i don't know why you're doing it but give it a rest already you cancerous fuck

Sorry moot I will stop my postings as of now. because your Reddit is showing. Times were different back then kiddy

what are you even trying to prove with that? how much of a faggot you are? i've totally lost the plot here
shouldn't you be making a "body of work" thread right now?

True wasn't the best guy to turn in to a vampire was he, he really loved it maybe a bit to much, Darla picked a good one. Then he goes and turns a poet like spike to play with.

Why do every Buffy/Angel thread turns into a bar fight?

I'm sorry I'm not allowed to post anymore. A humungous faggot said I was to bata. What's it like to be a millennial does mommy still feed you?
You get faggots like this guy.

ask the guys who think saying "Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a show for girls" is some sort of wild and controversial statement

seriously what are you trying to prove by posting pictures of Beauty and the Beast?
did you watch that as well as championing Buffy the Vampire Slayer all the while calling me the faggot?

I did matey was a great show good family entertainment is that ok with you, I'm sorry it effects your masculinity so much. Before you millennial grow up and fuck everything tv was different, I'm sorry for sounding like an absolute faggot but that was it. Is pic related more masculine for you.

>he admits to watching Beauty and the Best
you don't have to be so upset that I correctly called your desire to have Eliza Dushku step on your balls with high heels, fag

>you don't have to be so upset that I correctly called your desire to have Eliza Dushku step on your balls with high heels, fag

Who wouldnt desire this?

Hahahaha
Please child I told you I'm sorry I hurt your masculinity, it's really ok mommy will take you to your safe space.
I'm take it you only watch GOT ,the walking dead and blacked.co.m manly shows.

dude, go to twitter if you want to talk to these millenials you hate so much
it's like i'm talking to someone from 2012

On Buffy they could truly treat him like the villian. On Angel it would feel pretty retroactive for the hero who had been fighting for redemption for the past 3 years to build up a body count like he had on Buffy.

>a body count like he had on Buffy.

Like, 2 people and some fish. One of them was fair game as she was trying to essentially kill him.

It's a bit like Wire/Sopranos fights way back. Sopranos gets all the media attention, so wirefags would spam the threads will bullshit.

Same thing here, worsened because they are in the same universe. Buffy gets all the accolades, no one remembers Angel. This leads Sup Forums anons with inferiority issues to start shit.

buffy gets accolades for being a feminist show and an ally to the lbgt community, it is however, not a show for girls

It got critical attention from S1. Before gay Willow and all that. It got accolades because of genre bending, the dialogue and acting, not just because muh feminism.

But whatever the reason, the fact that no one cares about Angel the Series is the cause for all the bullshit in the threads.

Sure thing matey ,will do I only came here to talk about buffy and it feels like I'm talking to a child making silly generalisation about how girly a show Is I watched before he was born.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

the last actual Buffy thread I was in was nothing but people talking about Angel, particularly Wesley
let's not forget this spun out because I mentioned that Buffy season 4 isn't as good as Angel season 1 in so many words, and then a bunch of "Angel" fans jumped down my throat because of their inferiority

I honestly prefer the constant Fredposting that always happens in these threads to this dumb bickering about stupid shit. At least when its about waifus every body gets along