Hypercrisis Thread

Why do you think Grant Morrison never had a run on Hellblazer beyond two issues? It's not like he didn't have the sway to get himself back onto the title, especially later on.

It's just surprising given his interest in esoteric matters, the openness of the Hellblazer readership to trippy shit, and so on.

Do you think maybe Grant just didn't want anything to do with the bastard? Maybe he doesn't want to fuck with guys who can magic him back?

Oh, and, Hypercrisis thread.

I'm in the middle of reading Final Crisis for the first time. What in the absolute fuck am I reading. I like it, but I'm sure as hell gonna have to reread it a few times to really "get it".

Would reading Kirby's Fourth World and Simonson's Orion help?

It'd help a bit, yeah. I don't know if it'd make it all clear or anything.

I thought it was because alan moore threatened him, or am I confusing it with swamp thing?

I'd imagine he was busy writing Animal Man or Doom Patrol at the time. But the 2 issues he wrote were just great.

There's any character Morrison truly dislikes? aside from Hulk?

Why does he hate hulk?

A bit, but reading Morrison's earlier works will help better.
You are reading the collection with Superman: Beyond 3D, right? Otherwise you're going to be all sorts of lost.
Personally, I hope you're reading it with 3D glasses on too, so you can get the full effect.

>Morrison dislikes Hulk

Explain?

He doesnt hate hulk, he just find him boring, a baby throwing a constant tantrum.

It's like someone that doesnt like hot dogs, it doesnt mean he hates hot dogs or that he will waste his time shitting on hot dogs.

Every collection of FC has the beyond and submit issues in it.

The only thing added to the newest edition were the redrawn and added pages for the absolute edition and the Batman last rights issues.

He threatened him when he asked about taking over some title Moore had created (I forget which), and then Morrison didn't go anywhere near that title. He wrote two issues of Hellblazer, so that wasn't it.

I doubt he hates any character, but he must think some characters are just boring, it's not like Waid and Johns with captain atom.

any works in particular? I've got Animal Man and Doom Patrol on my list, but so far the only stuff of his I've read is All Star Superman, Batman and Son/Black Glove, those two issues of Resurrection of Ra's he did, Batman RIP, and 52.

Yes, but more directly you should look at Morrison's own take on the Fourth World stuff by reading his JLA run.

Since this is a hypercrisis thread can we talk about the cosmonology? Who is the most powerfull being in the entire multiverse?

Seven Soldiers proves he's interested in and can handle the supernatural corners of the DCU; I suspect that it's the same reason he wouldn't tackle a Sandman spin-off. Since about 2003 or so, he's pretty much been able to tackle anything he wants in the DCU (unless someone like The Cereal King cock-blocks him over it, aka Captain Marvel). So if he WANTED to do John, he probably would.

JLA/DC One Million is a must

Me.

What says, read his JLA run, specifically the Rock of Ages arc, if I remember correctly.

Final Crisis is weird because it's a superhero story that's one part murder mystery and two parts Apocalyptic literature, and purposefully has its entire story structure and sense of pacing break down towards the end to mirror the time dilation of a black hole's event horizon.

The Overvoid, there would be nothing without it.

Technically the readers themselves. After all, the universe exists basically to reflect what they want from stories.

Which is why the Gentry and the Empty Hand are so dangerous, because sometimes what readers want from stories are stupid and they can keep toxic ideas alive in the market without realizing it.

Not even the presence?

Sounds like I'll be grabbing his JLA run then. Probably grab em after I grab Cereal King's Green Lantern omnis.

I actually have a number of friends and I do pretty well socially, but when I'm by myself, I have a bad habit of beating myself up over the slightest little things I'm convinced made me look like an idiot or a jerk, or I become convinced everyone secretly hates me or is just sick of putting up with me.

I know I can do a sigil (or maybe even a hypersigil) for this. And I intend to. But in the meantime, I'd like to do some preparation by invoking a Justice League member G-Mo style.

Who do you think would be best for something like this? Healing emotional damage and insecurity, and building confidence.

Newsflash buddy, that's typical of most of humanity.

Sigils don't fix human nature, just know that you aren't alone and that we're all faking it too.

Holy Jeez, that pacing timewarp thing was a complete fail the first read through.
Unless you're going into the story knowing what to expect it just looks like bad writing.
Sure, it made sense on the third or fourth readthrough (I'm slow) but until then it's just a waste of time.

Superman, read all star superman then get a sigil

Yeah I knew what to expect going in and it still wasn't that fun to read through. Just feels like Morrison threw a bunch of shit on the page to see what stuck. I don't care if it's on purpose or not, it just doesn't really work on its own merits.

yes

add Flex Mentallo: Man of Muscle Mystery to the list

No, I know we all have our insecurities. Think of the difference between "I get bad gas when I eat certain foods" and "I have IBS."
Thanks.

It typically goes the following levels:

Meta-entities > Conceptual Beings > Gods/Deities > Reality Warping Powers > Superheroes

There is some overlap and the more powerful people in one level may be stronger than the lesser ones of a higher level. There is also mobility being able to move through the ranks.

>I actually have a number of friends and I do pretty well socially, but when I'm by myself, I have a bad habit of beating myself up over the slightest little things I'm convinced made me look like an idiot or a jerk, or I become convinced everyone secretly hates me or is just sick of putting up with me.
Are you me?

Well it's the same damned thing with my fave Morrison run: New X-Men. What fails, fails epic hard, but what makes it worth it are those bits of pure luminescent win.
It's hard to even tell what makes it all worth it in the end, all I know was that it was inspired.

bump

That's about right, but then you have Superheroes beating Gods fairly often, and heroes that have become conceptual beings, namely Superman and Batman.\

You're not wrong, it's just a lot more wobbly than you're stating.

I think that was Miracleman

It was Marvelman/Miracleman iirc

>heroes that have become conceptual beings, namely Superman and Batman

You could probably make an excuse for the entire JLA as an entity, if you push far enough.

I'm interested, where would you place Yahweh/the Presence/Whatever he's going by this week on that scale? Meta or Conceptual?

I was leaning toward high end conceptual, but it's difficult to judge as the only thing that should honestly rank higher than He would be the Overvoid/Mind of the Monitor.

Unless you'd count the Thought Robot and Mandrakk? I could see someone making a case for them being somewhere around His level too. As He is just a story, perhaps one of the best, but still a story..and the Thought Robot is THE best story and Mandrakk is the Story Vampire.

Though again this stuff is, as always open to personal interpretation.

I'd say The Presence is at the high end of Gods/Deities. He has a lot of power (Gods seem to exist on a multiversal level according to the Multiverse map), but he is still part of the Multiverse (the story), rather than existing outside the Orrery (meta-story)

That's interesting, yeah. Though He's so far ahead of anything else in that tier.

It depends mainly on who's writing Him.

>That dialogue

Is that why The Presence is a horrible monster in the sequel?

I heard in an interview he would never want to write Spider-Man

The novelisation is a little clearer. Also, the main storyline only makes sense with the Superman tie-in.

>The novelisation
How is that, by the way? I've been meaning to read it and am looking for another book to get into right this moment.

We need to go more in depth with the Hypercrisis, in 2012 (end of the world) Grant was 52, what major comic events happened at that time?

Hypercrisis is bottomless, friendo. It has no limits.

I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning. As far as 2012 comics go? AvX and New52 being in full swing is basically the extent of what I can recall. That and it being the year I stopped buying DC.

Rebirth you've been a god send.

because he's a fucking shitlord

Hmm... N52 in full swing, it became the beginning of the end for DC, the 2012 prophecy was true.

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Nice screencap faggot

Thank you.

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When Disney inevitably buys Warner Bros., do you think they'll tap Morrison to write the merging or would they bring someone else? I'm not really happy with Hickman's last effort.

What is this gay shit?

So, Futures End was, to me at least, a vision of where DC was headed between Flashpoint and Rebirth.
Some of these possibilities were nice, most weren't.

And since the return of Superman and his family, there have been at least one significant change. In the future of 35 years from now, where Batman Beyond takes place, Jon Kent is Superman.

What other changes do you think would happen? Damian was dead during Futures End, so maybe Batman of Bethlehem happened at some point in the new future.

Managed to convince two of my buddies to read some GraMo comics through a mild synopsis of Pax Americana and general Hypercrisis shenanigans.

I've tried this with a friend once. Failed miserably when I realized I understood even less than I thought I did.

How do you even begin?

Make sure they don't start off with something heavy like Final Crisis or The Filth.
Tell them to get JLA, Animal Man, or The Invisibles first.

Not necessarily, if you understand new gods. But do read his Rock of ages, JLA ultramarine corps and seven soldiers(especially Mr miracle)

Being shit on purpose means it is still shit.

Talk about the stuff you do know about. I didn't bring up stuff like Animal Man and Doom Patrol because I haven't read those in a long time and I don't remember a lot of what happened in them. Multiversity was still fresh, so I focused on that. Also know your audience. I was talking to a film major and an art education major so they were both pretty open to "trippy" narrative ideas that might shock the normies.

Which issues did Morrison write?

I recommended Doom Patrol and Arkham Asylum

I always got the impression the Overvoid was less of an entity and more of a thing, like a metaphore for what is outside of creation (or isn't in this case). There should be someone more powerful than the Presence tho, since it states that something shaped it.

>more powerful

When you get to the level that beings such as the Presence and Overmonitor sit at, you can't really compare them on terms of 'who is the most powerful'. Like if you told them to both hit each other as hard as they can, it's just not gonna work like that.

Presence, Overmonitor, Thought Robot, Mandrakk etc etc are more ideas, concepts and the Meta itself then they are actual beings with measurable quantities.

They just don't work the same way, for example, getting the Anti-Monitor to give Galactus a beatdown would.

As an user said earlier, you could honestly apply it to Superman and Batman, plus probably a few others at this point. Supermans whole 'strong as he needs to be' thing is part of it.

The idea that Superman will be just powerful enough to beat the big bad/move the planet/whatever is so ingrained into comics and even our culture as a whole, that it supersedes any attempt to measure it or work out just what his limits are.

It's exactly the same thing that the presence (and others) has going for Him.

>TLDR: 'more powerful' is the wrong question

Is Hyper crises or multiverse or any crises the true religion?

Believing in superman's 'there's always a way' message is about the closest thing in my life to a true religion.

So kinda, sure I guess. Why not.

>Believing in Superman is the closest to religion
But that is dumb, it is the same shit as believeing in Jesus

>believing that an explosion out if nothing created something

>believing creation at all

There is no such thing as creation for things exist before and forehand. Therefore hyper crisis exist.

From my reading I've seen DC likes to use math equations for their universe. Here are a few I've noticed.
>Anti-Life Equation
It is the math equation used by Darkseid to control people.
>Life Equation
Is connected to the White Light Entity and thus the lanterns as a whole.
>Anti-Death Equation
Is used by the Gentry to ruin worlds.
>The Will Power Equation
There is also a math equation that is the equation for willpower that got a ring. I don't know how it connects to the Life Equation.

Anyone know of any other uses of math DC uses for their setting?

I didn't say the character exists, numbnuts.

Just that the message it conveys is one worth remembering.

Half the reason why any religion lasts as long as they do.

However this means nothing to you, as I can smell the doritos stains in your fedora from here.

Not just equations, but the numbers that make them up are very important, too.

Seven being the biggest one, with 52 being the most well known. Speaking of, someone needs to find a way to incorporate the 7 members of the Justice League into this picture.

One of the reasons why I love Final Crisis so much is that I've rad it 5 times and every time I liked it even more. Be sure to read the tie ins Superman Beyond and Submit.

>Superman Beyond

Gotta be in my top 10, maybe 5, comics ever. That shit is so fucking good.

Knight =Batman
Survivor = Superman
Escape Artist = Green Lantern ( escape fear)
Witch= Wonder Woman
Monster = Martian Manhunter/ Cyborg
Reporter = AQuaman ( because of Love)

Mahnke needs to work with Morrison mroe often, Superman beyond, Frankenstein and even Ultra look so much better than the sit he phones in when working on Superman/Wonder Woman or with Tomasi. Though it's mostly the fault of the inkers, not his.

The final Page is imho one of the best in Comic History.

I disagree.
Reporter is totally Superman.

Those roles are already filled by others. But that's a pretty good job though. My interpretation would be a fair bit different though.

Supes should be reporter, batman survivor, GL the knight and aquaman the escape artist - loosest connection, but its the only place I can put him. In regards to him escaping ties that bind him to either land and sea. Would work better to swap him with WW, but witch doesn't fit a male very well.

>Mahnke

Severely underrated. Tends to get overshadowed by big names, but he's just as good as the best.

Doesn't get any better.

When he's good he's amazing, but in the last couple of years his artwork hasn't looked that great and he's been very slow. Last time his art was great(not counting Ultra) was in the beginning of Johns' New52 Green Lantern. The problem with Mahnke is that often times an issue drawn by hm will have multiple inkers and some are better than others.

>will have multiple inkers and some are better than others.

yeah I've noticed this too.

>filename

nice

Can someone post the Multiversity page that mentions the Anti-Death Equation?

Is this the one? I can't recall if it gets brought up another time in the book.

I'm probably due for a read again sometime.

Thanks. Doesn't say what the equation is like the life and anti-life does, just what it does it seems.

>Doesn't say what the equation is

No, but I've always thought they're basically the exact same things, just in reverse. Perhaps the positives become negatives etc etc

I'm only realising it now, but the anti-death equation seems very similar to Darkseids Omega Sanction, in that it prevents you from ever dying permanently, just making you live through hell over and over again.

loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding x guilt x shame x failure x judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side

This proves life is meaningless.

The summation and the combination of the lights of the Emotional Electromagnetic Spectrum, especially the White Light of Life

This proves life is worth living.


I can just assume the anti-death equation whatever it is, makes death meaningless.

And even further into the realm of assumptions, I can assume there is a death equation that proves death is meaningful.

Fear is part of both the life and anti-life equation.

>Morrison writing Miracleman
Have you guys ever listened to that interview where Alejandro Jodorowski talks about how he was "raping Frank Herbert"in the making of his Dune movie, but "with Love"?
I think that's how a Morrison Miracleman would look like, his beliefs are absolutly contrary to the ones found in Miracleman.

>his beliefs are absolutly contrary to the ones found in Miracleman
because ultimate power doesn't equal tragedy but instead oportunity

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That's a weird image. Also, doesn't Morrison really like Way's work? Pretty sure he said he did during an interview after he took over Heavy Metal.

Is Way's stuff worth reading? I know he did Umbrella Academy, though I haven't read it. Has he done anything else? Does his shit get all esoteric?

Way did that SP//DR issue of Edge of Spider-Verse that was a mech anime parody/homage. Wasn't the greatest thing ever but it was decent.

Does anyone have a complete list of Morrison's core seven Justice League members and the correspondences to the seven Gods of Olympus?

In addition, what other correspondences are there?

Who can I turn to if I want a more charming personality and/or luck in romance?

(Oops. Left the trip on from another thread. Sorry about that.)

I dunno, I believe in elements of the Hypercrisis because it reflects certain truths about my Catholic faith I hold.