All of these countries are culturally and ethnically extremely close. Apart from Libya, all of them possess functioning governments.
Morocco has an extremely appealing geographical position, great relations with most of the west (including free trade agreements with the US and the EU) along with the biggest phosphate reserves in the world (which explains its position of #1 exporter). It was also the first country to have recognised the United States as an independent nation. Despite that, it is plagued by corruption, terrible education, and rising insecurity. Brain drain is also a huge problem. Life isn't bad, but it isn't great either, and that isn't gonna change for a long time. There is a huge difference in life quality between the poor and the middle class.
Algeria is much better off economically, having the fourth highest GDP in Africa behind Nigeria, Egypt, and South Africa. However, most of that money doesn't go to its people, who live similarly to Moroccans. It has one of the largest oil and gas reserves in the world, and uses that as the main backbone of its economy. The forgotten regions of Kabylie lack even the most basic necessities despite constituting 1/5th of the country's population. Relations between Algeria and Morocco are nonexistent due to various conflicts, the biggest of which is Western Sahara (although there are other reasons, like the Sand War). The country's closest ally (and one of its only true allies) is Russia, which provides most of Algeria's military equipment (the country has the largest defence budget on the continent).
Mauritania is a failed country with huge mineral reserves and extremely poor people. 90% of its territory is completely desertic, and it is the only country in the world to still (unofficially) practice slavery. Most cities are dangerous to live in.
Libya used to have the continent's highest GDP before it got "liberated" by the UN. Its HDI was the highest in Africa: life was as great as in Europe or the US. It is now a failed state with two governments fighting for power, along with various cities and regions controlled by islamist militias imposing sharia law on the people. Its citizens are constantly in danger and completely demotivated by the absolute destruction of their country by the very occidental forces that claim to spread peace through the world. The most likely reason for the destruction of Libya by the UN is Gaddafi's plans to create a gold-backed panafrican currency in which the continent's resources would be sold that would truly make africans kangz again.
Tunisia is a small country compared to Morocco and Algeria, but sends the most islamists to ISIS out of all of those. After various bombings and the events of the Arab Spring, tourism is completely dead, and unemployment is at an all-time high. The country honestly isn't that bad politically and socially, and its citizens can be considered relatively free, but it is stuck between two major regional powers that hate each other (Morocco, Algeria) and thus has trouble standing out or holding its own in the region.
Matthew Morris
let them join the eurasian union w russia iran syria and serbia must convert to shia/orthodox christian first
Samuel Morales
>eurasian union >nowhere near eurasia >98% sunni muslim majority
Serbia pls
Isaiah Wright
bump
Levi Gomez
Introduce Sharia
Hunter King
That wouldn't fix it, just ruin the region for another 50 years
Adrian Ward
Morocco was nice. Haven't been to Algeria or Libya. It shouldn't be fixed, they should just stay away from our culture, because they don't mix well.
Henry Martinez
I used to be best friends with a Moroccan, back in Canada... One of the few people I ever met with a similar mindset. However we ended up going our separate ways over disagreements over Islam and immigration...
I miss you, Hicham. :(
Cooper Russell
Well there was a Maghreb Union but that shit about West Sahara kind of ruined it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Maghreb_Union >he Union has been unable to achieve tangible progress on its goals due to deep economic and political disagreements between Morocco and Algeria regarding, among others, the issue of Western Sahara. No high level meetings have taken place since 3 July 2008[3] and commentators regard the Union as stagnant and largely moribund.
How about yall come to an agreement about that?
Evan Watson
>Morocco was nice. Yep, it's an extremely beautiful country... as long as you don't live here or decide to even glance at cities other than Marrakech.
>It shouldn't be fixed, they should just stay away from our culture, because they don't mix well. The maghreb has always had a very mediterranean culture, including great relations with countries like Spain, Italy, and France.
I'm not talking about westernizing these countries. That obviously wouldn't work.
Damn, nip. Must've been hard. >we ended up going our separate ways over disagreements over Islam and immigration... You have to remember islamic and arab/maghrebi culture are basically the same thing to a LOT of maghrebis. It's the equivalent of attacking their own country's culture and habits.
>How about yall come to an agreement about that? Sahara conflict isn't about to end anytime soon, unfortunately. Do you want a rundown of the conflict's history?
William Richardson
Well that's because they all were western countries and were invaded and killed by shitskins, some of our values carry on. There's only one way to fix it..
Nathan Bailey
Yeah that sucks, why can't they just be their own country instead?
Carter Reed
How to fix....ummm....
Maybe genocide? Would they fix themselves if everyone but the berbers were killed?
Nathaniel Fisher
The Maghreb had a Mediterranean culture until Islam came along. Since then you are not considered cultured or sophisticated (Science itself was declared unislamic in 900AD). You abandoned Science and culture for the sake of a single book. Until you change that, I doubt Spain, France or any of the rest of the enlightened world want anything to do with you.
Jeremiah Young
How about a gold backed currency? :^)
Ryan Nguyen
>Lybia Oy vey, those black goyim should have never have gotten off the Petrodollar.
Tyler Clark
Bring King Mohammed V and Qaddafi back from the dead.
Brody Hall
That's what Algeria and the Polisario are asking for.
basically, in the early 19th century, before France started conquering every single fucking country in northwest africa, Morocco looked roughly like pic related in light grey (borders weren't strictly defined at the time because the whole area didn't really have a lot of inhabitants)
Basically, "the great Morocco" extended from Mauritania to part of Mali to part of Algeria
Easton Taylor
Then, France annexed Algeria, and towards the end of the 19th century, Spain annexed the Western Sahara
Then France annexed Mali and Mauritania while placing the light green part of Morocco under a protectorate (North of Morocco was a spanish protectorate with a small international territory in orange consisting of the city of Tanger)
This basically went on until Moroccan independence (1956), when Morocco and Mauritania (after their independence in 1960) asked Spain to get the fuck out of Western Sahara (which they did in 1975, leaving it as a joint administration between the two countries)
Thus began a war between Mauritania/Morocco and the Sahrawi liberation movement (Polisario), which proclaimed the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic with a government-in-exile in Tindouf (Algeria)
Mauritania backed out in 1979 (understandable since their economic and political development was, at best, embryonic) with Morocco de facto securing most of the territory, including all the major cities and natural resources
Christopher Howard
A ceasefire was declared in 1991, and one third of the territory is occupied by Polisario now (strongly backed by Algeria, hence the tensions between the two countries and why Moroccans and Algerians hate each other)
Algeria and the Polisario are in support of a referendum (with the former wanting to include Tindouf (Algeria)'s refugee camps in the participants), but Morocco has always strongly refused, claiming it won't give up the Western Sahara
Morocco has repeatedly tried to get into bilateral relations with Algeria in order to delimit Moroccan territory but only after they agreed to the unalienable right of Morocco on that territory, which Algeria refused (since they "can't talk on behalf of the Polisario")
At the moment, armed conflict between Morocco and polisario is highly unlikely without the green light of Algeria, which would cause a political disaster
Recently, every UN employee in Western Sahara (working on the MINURSO UN mission, which wants to solve the sahara conflict) has been kicked out of the country because of Ban Ki-Moon talking about the "Moroccan occupation of the Western Sahara", which caused a lot of outrage
Basically, the conflict is in a stalemate right now and won't be solved for a long time (although it's noteworthy that Morocco is getting back into the African Union with the support of several countries, which they left after most nations denied Morocco's right on the Western Sahara at the time)
You also have to keep in mind Morocco dumped a FUCKLOAD of money into the Western Sahara's infrastructure, so it's understandable that we wouldn't give even part of it away
Well, that's basically it I guess, might be biased since I'm moroccan but yeah
Jason Lewis
??? Maghreb has been islamic since the 6th or 7th century Rest of your post is just generalizations without any source Al-Andalus was controlled by berber maghrebi dynasties and was a haven of cultural and scientific progress >Until you change that, I doubt Spain, France or any of the rest of the enlightened world want anything to do with you. ??? I don't get what your post is trying to say, bud, do you think the Maghreb is a caliphate or something?
desu Hassan II was a better leader and would gloriously rule Morocco with an iron fist in this time and age He wouldn't have survived the Arab Spring, though
Eli Martin
Ah.
Samuel Hall
That's the problem you don't know anything.
Easton Lee
What do you mean by that?
William Richardson
>So how do we fix the Maghreb, Sup Forums? Make it Christian again
Dominic Carter
dem quads dont lie doe
Austin Ross
Morocco, I...
want to conquer the region and let you in charge
Tell us more about who is exploiting the oil and gas reserves in the region ? Maybe I have an idea.
Jacob Edwards
Moroccan diaspora here. WOuld like to go back but I don't speak darrija. Also, I really would want to be a muwatin. It would be nice if the rif would get some attention from the government and the media. There is almost zero coverage of rif and other berber areas in the news. Hospitals and social services are almost non existent as well.
Owen Nelson
Fuck off Lyautey, you were a great leader but you were the ones who put in place laws like the imprisonment of people eating/drinking/smoking during ramadan or the inability for non-muslims to enter mosques
>Moroccan diaspora here. >WOuld like to go back but I don't speak darrija. >It would be nice if the rif would get some attention from the government and the media
lel, this is completely stereotypical for some reason
You can get your moroccan nationality if you have your birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate
Keep in mind that most of the Moroccan diaspora in Netherlands is badly viewed here because most of your youth acts like complete chimps and are incredibly arrogant
Levi Cox
>laws like the imprisonment of people eating/drinking/smoking during ramadan or the inability for non-muslims to enter mosques wait what?
W H A T
You haven't disposed of them already ?
I was serious about oil and gas reserve tho, is it an open market or a chasse gardée of Total ?
Camden Gonzalez
Get rid of niggers
Owen Hernandez
At this point, the population has embraced the former for some reason
The latter isn't applied, though
Libya and Algeria are heavily exploiting their oil and gas reserves.
There's been a lot of drama regarding forages from Total due to the polisario whining about illegal use of the territory (western sahara not recognised officially as part of Morocco by the UN), and Total recently stopped trying to find oil in the sahara due to disappointing results (bladi.net/total-prospection-petrole-sahara-marocain,43969.html)
There are very few nigs in the Maghreb, though
Joseph Bailey
bump
Thomas Garcia
>Libya and Algeria are heavily exploiting their oil and gas reserves. Maybe they should develop their plastic industry...
But I'm not going to lie, Europe outsourcing technological advanced jobs in Maghreb may be the only chance for the population and the economy. Or you could find an alternative market for manufactured goods, just like China who relies on its interior market too. Maybe modernizing sub-saharan would help.
Jack Flores
Corruption and education are honestly one of the biggest things holding us back. You dont realize how huge corruption is in the maghreb: most of the money gone into our development plans (maroc vert and maroc azur) have disappeared. It is impossible to find a high-ranking job if you're the son of a nobody.
Economic and political cooperation between Algeria and Morocco, to start off, would be absolutely huge. Defusing the sahara situation, which costs billions to both countries (Morocco has to deal with the constant deployment of soldiers to the mur des sables while algeria has to deal with the Tindour refugee camps), would be a great start.
Maybe we should start by apologizing for accusing Algeria of having caused the 1997 Marrakech bombing? It was the final straw that broke the relations between Morocco and Algeria. Cheap oil and gas would be a great thing from Morocco, while Algeria could benefit from free trade from and to the atlantic ocean, one of the main reasons it is supporting Polisario.
Joint projects could be made: for example, heavily investing in Mauritania's infrastructure in order to exploit the country's various resources and improve the lives of the persons living there. Maybe even work towards a resolution in the current libyan conflict?
Fuck man, if only the Arab Maghreb Union actually worked...
Jack Price
IT can't be fixed, just nuke the sandniggers
Austin Bailey
>latin america >any different from niggers
aha
ahaha
ahahahahaaha
Brody Richardson
Kill the jews
Colton Gray
We actually collaborated with Mossad in order to deport nearly all of our 250k jews to Israel. There are only about 2000 jews left in Morocco.
Most of them were pretty well integrated, though, and regularly come back on holidays. It was mostly done because of rising antisemitic sentiment in the country following the creation of Israel.
Caleb Young
>Arab Maghreb Union actually worked... this
The more you talk, the more it seems you just lack resolve. I thought EU was involved in something with the Maghreb (5+5).
So you think that the first step should be stability. I think a radical change in Algerian political environment could do some good. A chance to restart from zero the relationships with Morocco. How likely is it ?
However, for Lybia, the only solution I see is a dictatorship to restaure order.
I really like the idea of free trade within Maghreb and the focus on Atlantic exports via a Shengen-type agreement. At first I was hyped for sub-saharan trade, but I realised Maghreb lacks transport infrastructures for that. Even if sub-saharan Africa was stable and modernized you would still have to build faster transportation. And as you said, every big material project is destroyed by corruption.
Isaac Scott
Yeah. They're christian. That's the difference.
Benjamin Hill
>Al-Andalus was controlled by berber maghrebi dynasties It was controlled by Arabs/Syrians/Egyptians, berbers were their niggers.
Justin Gomez
the berbers at the time were conquered really recently by the arab/syrian/egyptian federation.
Anthony Young
>So you think that the first step should be stability. I think a radical change in Algerian political environment could do some good. A chance to restart from zero the relationships with Morocco. How likely is it ? Really unlikely. Corruption unfortunately stabilizes a political environment into the same circle of politicians. Abdelaziz Bouteflika has been the president since '99, but Algeria's attitude towards the maghreb has been the same for a long time.
They have also always sponsored and helped revolutionary movements everywhere in the world, which explains their stance towards Morocco. There are opposition movements, but just like in Morocco, they will always be a minority.
>However, for Lybia, the only solution I see is a dictatorship to restaure order. There's no bringing back Gaddafi, unfortunately.
>Even if sub-saharan Africa was stable and modernized you would still have to build faster transportation. And as you said, every big material project is destroyed by corruption. Yeah, I'm not too hopeful when it comes to sub-saharan trade. The sahara is a powerful natural barrier, unfortunately.
>5+5 looking at their website, it hasn't been updated since 2013, so I'm not too sure it was something important. Yet another discussion forum with nothing actually happening, I guess.
??? Almohads and Almoravids were berber dynasties. The arabs/syrians/egyptians were overthrown a few centuries before that.
Adam Anderson
12th century.
Logan Reyes
>Yeah, I'm not too hopeful when it comes to sub-saharan trade. The sahara is a powerful natural barrier, unfortunately. Same as China : desert and mountain barriers, but they manage to get it done. How ? Maritime trade, priviledged contract to import natural ressources. There was an article in the Courrier Internationale saying that China has risen and fell many time before, struggling against its natural barriers and explaining how things are changing now. May be a source of inspiration.
Also, I think that Carthago had a similar approach. Weren't they a huge maritime power ? Trading with colonies as far as equatorial Africa ?
>There's no bringing back Gaddafi, unfortunately. >Abdelaziz Bouteflika has been the president since '9 Just wait till Algeria goes full Lybia. Military dictatorship when ? Not jokking, I honestly asking myself if Algerian and Lybian are ready for such regime.
Henry Davis
berbers can't lead themselves, they need a foreign power to do so this has been the case throughout history
Levi Roberts
>Despite that, it is plagued by corruption, terrible education, and rising insecurity. Brain drain is also a huge problem. Life isn't bad, but it isn't great either, and that isn't gonna change for a long time. There is a huge difference in life quality between the poor and the middle class
I'm afraid you can't fix the genetics. Tatu Vanhanen et al have done a lot of research in implications of average IQ of nations on how they progress. Maghrebs fall 12 points behind Europeans. You are never going to reach level of European nations.
Logan Phillips
>Just wait till Algeria goes full Lybia. Military dictatorship when ? Not jokking, I honestly asking myself if Algerian and Lybian are ready for such regime.
You do know about the Algeria civil war, right? Went on from 1991 to 2002 between the government and islamists. and the country was under military dictatorship for a few years at that time.
Quite honestly, the army is the one leading the country right now. A military coup would change nothing: Bouteflika is merely a puppet, and can barely talk on TV or during press conferences.
>Jordan >relevant
Which is why Mongolia is doing vastly better than the US, Portugal, and Israel, right? Are you really trying to dumb down a complicated geopolitical situation to shit like IQ?
Nolan Jackson
it's true, there are lots of examples, carthage, umayyad caliphate, ottoman empire, and even today tunisia's president is italian
Hudson Howard
They are mostly ethnic Berbers. They are only culturally Arabic in the same sense Latin America is culturally Spanish/Portuguese. The clear answer is to de-Islamize the region or promote more agreeable sects like Sufism.
Leo Ward
fixed
Carter Hill
Tatu Vanhanen unironically used retarded data from 50's for Croatia. Also: >Some criticisms have focused on the limited number of studies upon which the book is based. The IQ figure is based on 3 different studies, one study in 34 nations, and two studies in 30 nations. There were actual tests for IQ in 81 nations. For 104 nations there were no IQ studies at all and IQ was estimated based on IQ in surrounding nations.[2] The limited number of participants in some studies has also been criticized. A test of 108 9- to 15-year-olds in Barbados, of 50 13- to 16-year-olds in Colombia, of 104 5- to 17-year-olds in Ecuador, of 129 6- to 12-year-olds in Egypt, and of 48 10- to 14-year-olds in Equatorial Guinea, all were taken as measures of national IQ.[3]
Don't be a fucking idiot and believe everything that's written somewhere.
Lincoln Sullivan
>1200 AD >brown people have better culture, scientific development, and civilization than Europe >IQ must have been higher than Europe, then lesser in the modern era
or
>genetics are only one factor in civilization
Occam's razor says you're wrong
Christian Lopez
He might not be wrong, but all those IQ lists you see are total fucking bullshit with shady methodology. As you can see from my above post, they literally used 50 kids from Colombia as a sample. That's appallingly low, it's a fucking joke. And Asia totally shits on correlation between IQ and success of society, because Mongolia has something like average IQ of 105 according to them yet is a corrupt shithole, just like many of Asian nations.
Xavier Young
The only way to fix them consists out of two point: Complete disintegration and loss of power of all 3 biggest world empires: China, Russia and USA, which wouldn't leave any world powers and only reagional one's and massively increase independence of all countries. Second is adopt true natonalism and end conflicts by NEGOTIATING giving away land, creating aovereign countries, autonomies by national standards, for individual nations, because it is fair and people like to work and improve situation for their own kind it would make everything work better and more effective.
Tyler Rodriguez
>Complete disintegration and loss of power of all 3 biggest world empires: China, Russia and USA That would be nice but someone else would replace them. Not to mention there's no way you'll disintegrate country like Russia, where ethnic Russians sharing same culture and even dialect are majority on 90% of territory.
Tyler Long
As far as i know in russia, the russians themselves try to stay away from other native nation's territories, especially further from cities. And national pride is strong in many nations of caucasus, ural, and karelia. I'm personally an idealist, i'm just shooting fro what i see best, though I realise it's a long, and maybe not an impossible road. If people were to feel that freedom from the big powers and also realise, that the fair, rightious and logical separation by nation is the great way to live, all wold be fine, but omce again we get the bad people who always try to get best for themselves, while shitting on others. A reminder, that modern nationalism is anti imperialism with no compromise, every nation is free to govern itself.
Jordan Morales
Brain drain is the problem țbh >muh frança >muh belgica I hate these egotistical scums that only see their individual interest. Wa fak io
Cameron Wood
Algerians and Tunisians are all going to France. Nothing to fix. France will be Northern Africa.
Zachary Thomas
in less than 20 years they will be part of the european union.
Asher Phillips
->stay in Morocco >no opportunities as an engineer >forced to face corruption constantly >treated like shit >can't get a job if my father isn't well-known >can't say anything bad about the establishment or else I lose my job >get stabbed by one of the 500 delinquents released during every holiday by the king When a country does as much as it can to prevent you from improving it, there's no choice other than leaving and living a better life elsewhere, especially when you know what you're doing will often do nothing to make life better in your country.
Morocco actually tried to join the EU in the 80's.
Ayden Walker
That's nice, but then you go into another country an want it to become like where you came from and shitting on the natives.
Stay In Your shithole
Joshua Fisher
Engineers and people with actual qualifications aren't the ones shitting on the natives, senpai.
Leo Barnes
>So how do we fix the Maghreb, Sup Forums? With nukes!
Andrew Campbell
Nuke israel
Jaxon Smith
Sharia will always fix everything. When the maghrib had Sharia it was a world superpower. At one point the zakah (a tax muslims pay to the poor) was too much, there was nobody in north Africa who felt poor enough to accept the Zakah so they had to transport the money all the way to Asia.
That would not happen today due to lack of sharia, just kill anyone who don't think God knows better than idiot north africans.
Don't like sharia? --> Dump the murtadeen in a grave.
Evan King
Promote Berber culture so they reject arabic/islamic influence.
Parker Green
By nuking them
Kayden Martinez
>Science itself was declared unislamic in 900AD
Science have never been decleared unislamic. And most of the Islamic scientific achievements (like the invention of the scientific method by al hazen (the whole "formulating hypothesis, experiment, measure, observe and modify hypothesis), optics, chemistry and so on) happened after 900AD with the blessings of the scholars and often by scholars themselves.
Jacob Young
Bring back Gaddafi's regime
Joseph Ross
...
Nolan Gomez
Thank god my father fled that shithole and race mixed with a white woman.
Ethan Allen
Go to Morocco and fix it NOW
Carson Wilson
I miss Gaddafi. He was an absolute madman.
Logan Edwards
How to fix it? Unite it, unite the whole Arab world. Get rid of the puppets (goverments), get rid of all these barriers (nationalities) and get back that land which is occupied by Israel.
Dylan Perez
...
Angel Richardson
>my version of shlomo's fairy tail is better than yours
ahahahahahahaAHAAHAHAHAHHAHahahhaa
Angel Morris
I can't even speak arabic, that won't be of much help.
Mason Miller
Not the WHOLE Arab world but more like pic related
Kevin Lewis
Nearly the whole world is learning English m8
Samuel Rodriguez
HEARTY KEK M8
Ian Rodriguez
>maghreb >arab DELETE THIS
Gabriel Rogers
Muslims want to take over Europe and the world. It's their religion to do so. And they're succeeding.
Kevin Green
I don't know about that other one, but THIS DESU on Qaddafi. The man was so based it's actually really sad to see what happened.
Don't get me wrong. he's a muslim and a socialist, and a ruthless dictator: I guess that's what the muslim world needs to calm down for a bit.
Blake Cruz
...
Asher Foster
He also supported the IRA and Mandela
Cooper Perry
The biggest problem of Morocco is old people.
I've worked 4 months there and saw how your dumb illiterate "boomers" make it impossible to change things.
I saw young educated people forced to do dumb things because their superiors didn't understood basic math.
Also welding should be banned. It's the only solution they have.
>Merlich ! On vas le souder !
Juan Brooks
Again, not quite the Hitler/Churchill we would hope for.
Saddam Hussein was just like him too, and not having him around has just proven to be a net negative at this point (and I actually hate saddam, specially with the whole muh "gas the kurds" bullshit)
Face it user, what the 3rd world needs is a "benevolent dictator" but with far less corruption, less leftism, and more rational thinking. A Caesaristic for of government, if you will.
D-delet this ;____;
Brayden Clark
Are you a Berber or one of those 'Arab' pansies?
Jose Parker
He actually wanted to create a gold-backed gold dinar, a panafrican currency in which the continent's resources would be sold. With Africa's huge gold reserves, it would have made them literally kangz again.
Guess what happened to Libya after they announced that?
Yep, they're everywhere and are only looking to get more money in order to secure themselves a decent retirement, even if it means fucking over everything else
I'm a proud berber and I absolutely hate the arabization of the maghreb
Leo Gonzalez
30% of French youth are north Africans.
Ryan Cox
Except they aren't? There's no ethnic census in France.
Easton Sanchez
While we're at it we should fix other parts of Africa
Josiah Wood
>the Sand War kek you sandniggers are fucking dumb
