Whats the worst Batman comic, and why is it The Long Halloween

Whats the worst Batman comic, and why is it The Long Halloween

All of them, Batman is a shit character for plebs and all his stories are bad

DKR, ruined the character for forever, and considering ASBAR, even Miller agrees.

...

this

Long Halloween is great OP

ODYSSEY

Long Halloween is GOAT, get your shit taste outta here.

Given the absolutely STAGGERING amount of Batman comics, saying TLH is the worst is just irresponsible.

/thread

That was good though

my vote goes to Hush Returns
I still shamefully have it on my shelf...

Fuck outta here. Hush is complete garbage but LH is based.

If you don't think the concept of a noir detective story showing how Gotham transitioned from a corrupt mob city to a supervillain freak show is amazing then you have no hope.

>Widening Gyre
>Cacophony
>War Games

Even if TLH was as bad as this board likes to meme, the art alone makes it an amazing book.

people only started to hate on TLH when Nolan uses it as a base for his second movie

I just finished The Long Halloween, too. And while it's definitely not the worst, it's also...not that great.

It's pretty as fuck, due to Sale. But Loeb's writing was pretty weak (I've actually never been a fan of Loeb, with the few things I've read from him). It definitely felt more like a cinematic thing, rather than a comic -- a large reason why it worked so well adapting the Dent storyline to The Dark Knight.

Seems like the right thread to remind everyone that The Cult is absolutely garbage.

Neal Adams is the gift that keeps on giving, Odyssey is an extremely entertaining comic and that's more than enough.

>Widening Gyre

Ding ding ding we have a winner. Book was so bad DC stealth cancelled it after 6 issues.

>Seems like the right thread to remind everyone that The Cult is absolutely garbage.

But that was the only good multipart story of Starlin's Batman run.

>Seems like the right thread to remind everyone that The Cult is absolutely garbage.
What is with all the shit taste in this thread?

It's a shame so much of TLH was used for TDK, because I'd love to see a straight adaptation of it in the DCEU

ITT: People have have never read Widening Gyre

Cacophany was fine. Not great but I enjoyed it. Widening Gyre was irredeemable shit.

What's so good about it then?

The art, the maturity of the story, the original villain and direction for a Batman story.

What's wrong with it other than the obvious inspiration from DKR which I'll give you?

Long Halloween was a book that actually probably worked better in the monthly format rather than a single large volume that most of us have read it in.

Yeah this.

...

Haven't read it, but I can't imagine anything being worse than Hush

...

Any story that isn't the one where Batman teamed up with the man who killed his parents is automatically not the worst by process of elimination.

You might be right

Why is Kevin Smith even allowed to breathe oxygen anymore

That's not TDKR user, LH actually had Batman doing street level detective work, call me crazy, but I'm annoyed by Batgod and prefer Detectiveman

Thats every Loeb story ever. Thats how he managed to be such a huckster.

Sayign that LH and Hush are on the same level is just ridiculous. LH may be a BIT overrated and a has a few problems but Hush is complete garbage all the way through.

>Nobody in this thread read Batman: fortunate son.

Fuck off pleb. Odyssey was great.

Because it made all the villains into jokes. He kicked their asses when they were in a room together, it's impossible to take them seriously after that.

I mean the monthly format of Loeb's books. It's like a cycle

Anything by Scott Snyder is absolute fucking trash

YOU WERE NEVER MARRIED VICTOR
THERE IS NO NORA FRIES

LOL I'M PUTTING MY OWN STAMP ON IT!!!

It was one of the good parts from Snyder's Batman.

Grow up. Even the Arkham games weren't juvenile and edgy enough to fuck with Freeze

Dialogue plagiarized from the Godfather and a twist that doesn't make any sense.
He doesn't actually solve anything though. He just looks at clues while providing exposition and saying "What does it all mean???"

Taking away the one thing that had made Mr. Freeze something other than a joke was good?

Snyder correctly identified a problem (making Freeze all about Nora makes/made him a one-note character) and then "solved" it in a terribly stupid way.

What the fuck? It's not even Loeb's worst Batman story.

I never understood why people got so triggered by the Holiday revelation at the end of TLH.

Holiday's identity was irrelevant, the point was he was becoming an urban legend just like Batman and various people were using that to their advantage to "play" as Holiday. Some were doing it for personal gain and some were doing it because they were desperately unhappy people and were transposing themselves onto this fake identity to fill a hole in themselves just like Bruce does with Batman.

It's one of the only "dark mirror of Batman" stories that actually works because it actually delves a little bit into the psychology of Bats without just coming out and saying it bluntly instead of just making it a palette-swap of Bruce with an even edgier backstory.

Arguably Loeb's bigger sin was writing a fucking sequel which added nothing. Dark Victory is trash outside of the art.

Loeb would never be that subtle. Nothing he's written has ever been.

Except Long Halloween is. Pre-dead son Loeb is not the same writer as post-dead son Loeb.

Freeze was always shit, and just hyped by casuals because of a cartoon they once watched. Snyder didn't change anything.

Anything by Judd Winick qualifies.

Be that as it may, that's what I got out of the story.

And plenty of people have one great story in them along with a bunch of mediocre ones after.

To a degree Hush felt like Loeb chasing that juicy Long Halloween prestige and failing horribly. I enjoy Hush for what it is(a dumb popcorn action story) but the entire mystery is a complete wash, Lob's obsession with an "epic twist" robs the ending of any meaning.

>OH MY GOD IT WAS MY OLD CHILDHOOD FRIEND THE WHOLE TIME

>who had like four pages of screentime beforehand

>why should I care?

At least if it was Jason that would have gone into "so retarded it's entertaining" territory.

The plot, the plot holes, the characterisation, the art (the number of repeated panels was disgusting), the fact that it's a poor man's Dark Knight Returns with none of the style etc...

Also Deacon Blackfire is a boring villain, his backstory is left deliberately vague because Starlin has no clue what to do with it.

And trying to be a "badass" Batman story with guns, explosion and violence doesn't equal maturity.

Hush
Under The Red Hood
RIP
Anything Snyder
Joker's Last Laugh

I've avoided it like the plague. After Smith's Daredevil story, I have refused to read any comic he's written.

How soon they forget

Everything else except for this is the wrong answer.

>Joker's Last Laugh
>Pointless: The Event Comic

As entertaining as it was, it was a fucking trainwreck: Just horrible, but you can't look away.
The appeal that the art had to me didn't make up for the general sillyness of the whole thing and the total lack of coherence. Pacing was also broken. I remember being unable to finish it the first time I tried.
I'll try to be conciliatory and admit that, while it's definitely not a good batman story, it also may not be the worst.

>RIP
>Bad

It's so awful that I cannot hate it. Batman stories have been bland and poorly written for so long that something that apeshit was welcoming. RIP was far worse because it was so bad and messy, yet someone still bland as fuck.

>Morrisonfags defending that piece of utter shit

When Morrison is good he's incredible, but when he's bad he's one of the worst.

Something more straightforward like Squirrel girl will be more to your taste then.

But RIP is outstanding.

Boy, you sure got me user.

>Seems like the right thread to remind everyone that The Cult is absolutely garbage.
I came here for that exact same reason.
>The art,
Subjective, but I'll give you that. Wrightson & Wray come correct.
>the maturity of the story
I have to call bullshit on this though. "A super-eeeeeevil crazy corrupt religious preacherman, like, turns all of Gotham's homeless into a kill-crazy army!" is NOT a "mature" plot, no matter how much everyone in the book tries to sell it as such. It's ridiculous exploitation pap.

>the original
villain
See above. I really, REALLY didn't care for Deacon Blackfire. Any sufficiently edgy teenager who just turned atheist could've written a one-dimensional Eeeeeevil Relijus Mayun like him. And I'm agnostic, so don't try to make this a "lol triggered Christfag" thing

>and direction for a Batman story.
If by "direction" you mean "a story where Batman gets the shit kicked out of him, gets drugged so that the writer can do trippy hallucinatory bullshit with no plot or purpose, then feels sorry for himself, then decides 'YES, I WILL KICK *THEIR* SHIT IN- BECAUSE ONLY THE FIRE CAN QUENCH MY COOL GOTHAM HEART - THE FIRE OF BATTLE!!!11'", then, no, I really, really don't care for those kind of stories. Knights Saga was an exception because Bruce was FUCKIN' PARALYZED, but I really have no time or candy for the self-indugent, self-pitying Batman that was popular in the late 80s/early 90s by hacks trying to copy TDKR.

>What's wrong with it other than the obvious inspiration from DKR which I'll give you?
I mean, look at Batman's arc:
>Investigates Blackfire
>gets immediately fucked over by drugs
>is turned into a drugged murderer for Blackfire
>spends 2 issues tripping and being useless while an army of bums murders the mayor, the deputy mayor and the governor over several days
>is tied up and left for dead, only rescued by Robin
>once freed, bitches about how Blackfire broke him and completely capitulates to his demands
>decides to go back into the city and just shoot everybody full of tranq darts from a monster truck because fuck you
>exposes Blackfire and sits by helplessly while his followers EAT HIM ALIVE as a mob of cannibals because OF COURSE they do, homeless people are just 1 hunger pang away from eating your flesh!

I know I'll be dogpiled with "NOT MUH BATGOD" replies, but fuck, I think there's a fine line between uber-competent BatGod and a fucking goober who spends practically the entire story with hardly any agency, just reactively monologuing to all the bullshit that's going on, and most of that monologuing serving to oversell how Blackfire is just the raddest, baddest, meanest dude in town ever, and there's no way nope none that Batman could just kick his shit in like every other fucking psycho because HE'S ANCIEEEENT AND MYSTICAAAAL OOOOH~ that's NEVER been done for a Batman villain before! Fuck all of that noise. Blackfire brings NOTHING new to the table - even his psychic-vampire-cult-leader schtick was taken from Brother Blood. The only unique trait he has is that his followers are all homeless, which again, is this stupid-ass assertion that not having a roof over your head means you'll easily turn into a post-apocalyptic marauder right out of every 80s movie.

And I know you gave me this point, but the shameless TDKR copying is still the absolute WORST.

Pre-dead son Loeb wrote Commando. The idea that he was ever a good writer was a nostalgia-tinged myth.

Fucking hell, I forgot about that.

>he also wrote Teen Wolf and Burglar

Dark Victory is a nice follow-up that touches on the origin of Robin as well as answering some (but not all) of the questions that weren't resolved by the end of Long Halloween. It's a good way to cap off the post-crisis origin arc that started with Year One, but that's about it.

And, as fun as it is, Loeb's Superman/Batman run isn't exactly a work of genius, neither were his runs on Superman, X-man, etc.

Loeb also put out a few decent books after his son's death. I think the Fallen Son miniseries is the best thing Loeb's ever done in comics.

All Star is the worst.

In addition to letting Deacon Blackfire get killed by the homeless, Batman also doesn't save the woman that runs to him for help.

There's also the valid question of where are all the other superheroes who could've easily stopped the homeless army?

>There's also the valid question of where are all the other superheroes who could've easily stopped the homeless army?

That is not a valid question

Actually, iirc, the twist was that it was Riddler who was manipulating everyone since the beginning. That was explained in the last two pages because I guess Hush's identity was too obvious.
That whole comic was so dumb. I'm glad Paul Dini did Heart of Hush afterwards to redeem the character, somewhat.

Get a load of this casual

>What is Ten Nights of the Beast

Morrison's 'Epic'

By 'Epic' I trust people mean 'shit' because fucking hell was that a cancerous few years for Batman.

>Dick Grayson as Batman
>Damien

Fuck me I am so glad Morrison doesn't write shit anymore. The best thing he's ever done is Animal Man and that was fucking years ago.

Fucking retards eat shit because Grant Morrison is on the fucking label, kill yourselves.

Snyder's run was 100x the run that the 'Bat Epic' was

>I started reading comics after 2011: The post
Try reading Batman Conspiracy, you'll know what's shit then.

>Retard: the post

It's an amazing concept that Loeb utterly fails to do justice. As usual.

Morrison's run wasn't a Batman run anyway

It was the "I don't know how to write this character so I will (((kill))) him off and replace him with Dick while inverting the Batman/Robin dynamic"

But this place is full of casuals that only care about Dick and perpetuate the meme that Batman should be a legacy and stuff like that.

Every writer tries to leave his mark on a character when writing him but only Morrison had the arrogance to try and change Batman's by forcing him out of Gotham and giving him a fucking son

Exactly. It made no fucking sense for Dick to wear Bruce's costume when he had his own. It's fucking stupid

>only Morrison had the arrogance to give him a fucking son
>only Morrison and Mike W. Barr

plebs

shit taste retard pls go and stay go

>Morrison's run wasn't a Batman run anyway

>

It is when Robin raises the possibility of calling in "outside help" in the very story:
Shit, even if we forget the Justice League, why the fuck was the NATIONAL GUARD not sent in?! I'm pretty fucking sure that even in the 80s they had enough APCs and automatic weapons to take back the city from a hundred or so hobos with shotguns.

Dude, in what way was Morrison's run good?
In what way was his run Batman?

That's right, it was neither

>Morrison faggots try to defend his run
>Can't actually defend his run but instead just insult other people

His run was a mess. It was incoherent, filled with cliche plot twists, poorly written, and filled with either forgettable or awful characters.

utterly plebian

>Immediately prove my point

Thank you user.

praying for you

>I love this woman so much, she seems perfect for me
>TOO perfect
>SHE MUST BE A ROBOT

Wasn't Mike W. Barr's story written as an elseworld? Or did they retcon it afterwards?

Your a fucking idiot.

*You're
FTFY, user.

>It was the "I don't know how to write this character so I will (((kill))) him off and replace him with Dick while inverting the Batman/Robin dynamic"
But he DID know how to write Batman. Sup Forums has a weird fixation on B&R specifically, but Morrison bookended his runs with WAY more BruceBats stuff, and I loved how he wrote him. Totally earnest, completely heroic, the DadBats that existed in my mind from growing up with early BTAS.
>But this place is full of casuals that only care about Dick and perpetuate the meme that Batman should be a legacy and stuff like that.
I'm not gonna deny there seem to be a lot more Nightwingfags than Batfags on Sup Forums, but I for one consider myself the latter and not the former. I got into Batman in the 90s as mentioned above, so I always thought of Nightwing as a whiner, and didn't care about Dick Grayson at all... until Morrison wrote him as Batman

As for whether Batman "should" be a legacy character... I DON'T think Batman "should" be a legacy in the sense that I'm not one of those fans who thinks DickBats should've been forever, and that Bruce should've stayed "dead". I find those fanboys extremely annoying too; if you don't like Batman, don't read Batman. That said, the the idea that Batman could or should pass on his mantle at some point is fairly obvious; it reinforces both that Batman is a mere mortal, and that he inspires others.

It was being riffed on by writers ever since the fucking 50s, all Morrison did was modernize it. And he wasn't even the first to do it in the modern era, read Batman Prodigal for fuck's sake! Or does DENNY O'NEIL not know shit about Batman either?

>Every writer tries to leave his mark on a character when writing him but only Morrison had the arrogance to try and change Batman's by forcing him out of Gotham and giving him a fucking son
...except for Son of the Demon.... and all those 70s stories where he had globe-trotting adventures... which were what Morrison was deliberately invoking.