I saw some user in a BvS thread ask why people like the movie. So I'm gunna say why I like the movie...

I saw some user in a BvS thread ask why people like the movie. So I'm gunna say why I like the movie. Yes this is my personal blog post, and yes I'm a giant dckek, kike, fgt, pretentious etc. whatever. However, don't call me a fucking Sup Forums fag because I've been posting on Sup Forums since fucking Hope Corgi and story times of Civil War.

First off I really enjoy seeing Superman grow. Him growing into the ultimate hero is rarely explored, and is some of the best parts of Birthright and Secret Identity. I like that through MoS and BvS, Superman's arc has followed the heroes journey almost to a t. To the point where the metaphorical death and rebirth becomes literal. One of the key elements of the heroes journey is that at the end the hero brings back the "boon" or "elixir" making the world a better place. I believe that exactly this will happen, that the plan from the beginning, at least once they started conceptualizing or entertaining the idea of a larger shared universe, was to have Superman bring the world, one that intentionally tries to reflect our own, to a better place, one that more reflects a more classic heroic setting.

1/??

For example, Superman is put in a no win situation by Zod in MoS. Zod tells Superman he is going to have to kill him or else people die. Flat out forcing Superman to choose between humans and kryptonians. Superman killed Zod of course, mirroring a moment from Byrne's Man of Steel run, but not without it coming back to haunt him in the form of Doomsday. In BvS Superman is presented with yet another ultimatum, kill Batman or Martha dies. This time Superman chooses the third way, learning from the first time with Zod, and instead decides to be honest with Batman and ask him for help. They even illustrate this arc within Superman further by having him first just trounce Batman's Batmobile and order him to stop (since with Zod all the at worked was overpowering him). That doesn't work, so next time he sees Batman he tries to talk to him, but suffers for making the mistake of once again just using force. But he again makes the mistake of fighting back, and again pays for it. But once he finally stops trying to fight and just asks for help "to save Martha" he starts winning Batman over. And its not until Lois, Superman's loving anchor, is even more honest, revealing Martha to be his mother, does Batman finally help him. Superman, then, ultimately has to sacrifice himself because of the mistake he made in MoS. This does another thing I really adore about the movies, it takes iconic parts from the comics and synthesizes them into one narrative without making them just empty shoutouts, it instead uses these moments to add to the narrative and themes. And its not just moments like what I mentioned above from Byrne.

2/??

One of the best examples of such integration of the comics is how it uses key scenes from Dark Knight Returns (even doing a 1:1 remake of the death scene) as way to deconstruct it. I know for a lot of people deconstruction is a trigger word, so if you want you can instead say an inversion. While DKR had Batman very much in the right, BVS puts Batman on the wrong side. BvS turns Batman into the reactionary stooge that upholds the status quo, which was Superman's role in the comic. They also have the same dead Robin plot point, but this Batman never gets a new one. Batman fights Superman, but this time he goes in with the purpose of killing Superman instead of faking his own death. When Superman is nuked, it is from America instead of the commies, and he willing takes a blast to defeat a monster instead of trying to defend the earth. He also rejuvenates from the sun in space instead of sucking solar energy from Earth (as he does in the comic). And last but not least, in BvS Superman dies with a hint of him coming back instead of Batman. This kind of engagement with the past and with the stories that came before, the homages and commentaries on past comics, that is one of the aspects that makes the long 75+ years of Batman and Superman so fantastic to me, and BvS carries on in that tradition.

3??

I always like that these threads begin with an image that show a callback to another scene, as if that wasn't the most basic form of film making that even Disney Channel original movies do.

I'm sure you're all sick of reading this, but now that I've typed so much I figure I'll continue with a few other bits I enjoy. To go back to Superman redeeming Batman, there is an intended meta element to it too I feel. Batman is an old character in BvS, and he is an old character in the movies. He has had many more movies than Superman has, and it all these movies (except for the Adam West one and the black and white serials) has has killed people. And we have been fine with this. In the movies, we the public and our inherent jadedness have turned Batman into a killer, much in the same way the universe Superman enters in BvS has turned Batman into a killer. Its not until he shares a screen with Superman does the public question why he kills and start asking for the no kill code back. And at the end of the movie he gets it back, after Superman sacrifices himself and proves to Batman, and the world, that he is indeed just a force of a good, or as Batman says it "men can still be good". Its illustrated when Batman corners Lex in his prison cell and does't brand him (instead opting for more classic Batman scare tactics). Even in the comics Batman started out killing, but once he became more integrated into the larger superhero universe they started telling stories where had a no kill rule. And this brings me to, you guessed it (sorry if my pattern is getting predictable) another thing I loved about these movies. They find ways to look at the big picture of a character, like Batman, see how the character has changed over its entire history, and make it part of the story.

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In fact they do the same thing with Lex Luthor. Lex always started off having a full head of hair and being a crazy mad scientist. like he was in BvS There are examples of this throughout the golden age, and a few times in the silver age. Its also re-tread by Birthright and Gene Hackman in the Reeves movies. We see the beginning of Lex's passionate hate for Superman, to the point where he lets it derail his speech at the library fund raiser. We also get to the classic Lex move of him dominating and controlling every conversation he is in. And those he can't control he gets rid of. By the end of the movie we see Lex much more stone faced and cold (sans the scene chewing bell speech, though I don't mean that in a bad way) and finally with a shaved head. A transition into the modern age Lex who keeps a more precise and calculated public persona.

I don't have much to say about this last point, other than I thought it was neat that Wonder Woman regains faith in humanity parallel to Batman, and humanity, (re)gaining faith in Superman, and by extension the superhero.


I guess really I love that the movie gives me so much to chew on, and that every time I watch it I see a new little thing. Like last time I saw it, I noticed that after Batman's nightmare about dictator Superman, his worst fear about what Superman can become, its followed by Superman looking at the photos of Batman's dead victims in jail. Which is Superman's worst fear about how bad Batman can become. Or how the movie gets progressively more saturated with color as it goes on, the world literally becoming a more colorful and bright place. I love all these layers it intertwines almost effortlessly.

(oops, forgot the 4/?? for the last one)

5/??

Anyway, thanks for whoever read. I apologize if this sounds pretentious in anyway. I would like to believe this thread can not devolve into company wars, I enjoy the marvel movies just fine so please don't start shitting on something just because someone likes it.

6/6

if its so basic why isn't it any of the Marvel movies


also source on that Disney Channel Original Movie referencing a past movie? that would be pretty neat desu

>I like that through MoS and BvS, Superman's arc has followed the heroes journey almost to a t

Nearly every story in existence does this. That's literally why it's called the monomyth. That you even think this is worth mentioning is ridiculous.

idk man, it didn't happen in Jurassic Park or World, or any of the fast and the furious movies, or the spongebob movie, or the princess diaries, or a bunch of other movies I could list you fetus.

It doesn't happen in The Great Gatsby or Catcher In The Rye.

>if its so basic why isn't it any of the Marvel movies

Because they are hacks that make pig-chow for normal-fags

there is no hero's journey in Sex In The City, Huckleberry Finn, or Pride & Prejudice.

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>Zod plus Faggot Jessie Eisenberg's blood = Cave troll from LOTR

its actually just the genetic failsafe that happens when anyone tries to tamper with or mix kryptonian blood. The ship AI tells him so.

Why would their failsafe be "giant unstoppable monster" rather than, you know, the body just disintegrates to prevent tampering? Seems it would just create more problems.

You can't expect an advanced alien race to be reasonable, user.

because Kryptonians are assholes and want to punish anyone who would fuck with their precious "genetically perfect" people

Makes perfect sense.

see

The women are the hero's in sex in the city for standing up to the patriarchy and it's views of how women should act past a certain age

but the patriarchy told me they want women to sleep around and drink lots of booze

Not OP.

But Lex saw himself as PROMETHEUS, him marking his creation with his blood, making him the father of the monster it's just part of his arc as VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN, Doomsday it's his Adam.

It's simple, it's a no-no situation and Lex with his giant ege thought he could control it...
Lex plans backfiring are a rule.

Yeah, punish the guys who tried to tamper, I get that, but Doomsday was incredibly powerful. Surely that would create more collateral damage to other people and structures in the area than it was worth, just for genetic DRM software.

The entire Fast and the Furious franchise followed the hero's journey

You straight up just don't understand what it is.

well think of it this way, Kryptonians dont have super powers on krypton, so neither would Doomsday. Doomsday would just be a normal malformed fuck.

how, where is the boon, where is the reckoning with the father, where is the death and rebirth. But even if ONE of the examples listed has it, it doesn't appear EVERYWHERE you pretentious fetus.

>I can do this all day

no where in OP's post does it talk about repeating scenes, its just an image he posted for fucks sake

First Avenger, Civil War
Iron Man, Avengers
Thor, Avengers
Avengers, Avengers AoU

and more Im sure

BvSfags are the most autistic bunch I've ever seen.

Why would you let the people who are actively studying how to fuck with your super race live to continue their trial and error? Kill the fucks

>people who like man of steel
This is mostly just due to not carring about pa kent or thinking supes should make a shitload of fuckups that put people in danger in his first major fight.
>people who like batman vs superman
They fell for synders empty symbolism.
>people who like suicide squad
Everybody recognises the film has major flaws but many people enjoy it in spite of its flaws.

Not everybody fits into this but the majority does.

I thought the ai was talking about how illegal cloning is on krypton.

>no heros journy in the spongebob movie
Did we watch the same fucking film.

I was thinking more about potential bystanders and damage to the surrounding area.

It has been a while since i watched the film but it largly follows most interpretations of the heros journy.
Especialy this one

>implying that makes it bad

>thinking supes should make a shitload of fuckups that put people in danger in his first major fight.
Except he didn't make a single fuck up except for not seeing the 711 in time to avoid it.
>He activated the scout ship which led Zod to earth...
If I buy a new car & a jelous person sees me do so, follows me home & murders my neighbors, is it my fault?
>He didn't stop the oil truck
He was focused on Zod, had he taken the time to do so Zod could have started Blitz attacking civilians just like he sneak attacked Clark the instant his back was turned to look up at the explosion.

Huh, i never got that Zod/Doomsday killed Jor-El and Superman in the same way. Neat.

>ordinary world
The pleasing familiarity of hanging another employee of the month award on the wall

I can't auctualy remember what the call to adventure was

>Refusal of the call
It does play with this one a bit as the refusal comes after the first setback of the scene in the bar

>meeting the mentor
The princess shows up and makes them men

>crossing the threshold
The always a bigger fish scene

My memory starts to break down a down a bit here

>ordeal death and rebirth
Im not sure if there was something for this before the sunlamp scene.

Im going to find the time to rewatch this film and look at just how closely it sticks to the journy.

He pushed his enemy into town.

He had plenty of fucking time to correct his course.

I'm with you OP, I get the same enjoyment from both films. Superman learning how to be a nice guy will always be my favorite kind of Superman story. I didn't even make the connection that BvS reverses TDK's story around, pretty fucking rad.

Really all of the DCEU movies really nail the DC 'feel'. Not necessarily 'darker' than Marvel shit, but kinda fucked up while still being happy superhero funtimes.

>This is mostly just due to not carring about pa kent
Or we want a Pa Kent who is a more fully developed and has more to teach Clark then "You are the best most perfect thing ever"
>Liking BVS = symbolism
No I love BVS & the symbolism has fucking jack shit to do with it.

I didn't follow the hype so I didn't have any real expectations. As a result I found all the buildup to be quite enjoyable. There was a sense of genuine dread and the conversations were really interesting. I thought Lex's actor did a great job too. However, it definitely started to drag on a bit too long. The actual fight between Batman and Superman wasn't particularly exciting, and despite the majority of the writing being fine, the fight turned out to be one of those stupid "could have been avoided if you let Superman talk for two seconds" fights. And then it feels like they shoehorned Doomsday in just to have a big monster for the gang to fight in an "epic final battle."

Also I didn't watch the director's cut because the library gave me the wrong DVD so I don't know how much that improves things. But I doubt it helps much with the length problem.

No he was looking straight down at Zod's face in a blind rage.

>But once he finally stops trying to fight and just asks for help "to save Martha" he starts winning Batman over.
I don't think that's true. Batman is still angry when he mentions Martha but perplexed, thus he holds the spear to his face and asks "what does that mean?" If Superman had answered improperly, Batman would definitely had gone ballistic. Saying Martha only temporarily stunned Batman, Lois saying that it's his mother's name is what stopped him completely.

>However, it definitely started to drag on a bit too long.

Is there really a problem with length of every scene is interesting? What scenes do you think made it drag on? I personally enjoyed all of them.

Well, I didn't actually have an issue with it until Doomsday showed up. The actual plot was interesting, but I was bored out of my skull throughout this fight, which was weird because it was supposed to be some sort of epic showdown. I don't know if I just have weird taste or if Hollywood sucks at directing action scenes. For example I also enjoyed Spectre even though a lot of people hated it, but thought it had really boring action.

That's fair. It wasn't as grandiose as Superman vs. Zod, but I enjoyed Wonder Woman as well as the combination attacks she had with Superman despite this fact. I also liked how Batman was kind of just watching, imitating the audience.

You know in starting to think maybe user is thinking of a difrent film to me because i cant concive that somebody could look at that film and say it does not follow the heros journy.

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Neat analysis, user, I appreciate it. I always love to discuss these movies, there are a lot of layers to explore.

The whole plan of Luthor is much more developed in the Extended Cut, which is very interesting to see how much he has control over everything surrounding him. There are also small scenes and details that are appreciated, like Clark Kent doing journalism, Lois investigating or Superman helping people.

You should check it out, it's an improvement over the Theatrical Cut, and if you liked it you'll enjoy this one a lot.

>Batman was kind of just watching, imitating the audience.

Intimidating? I didn't get that impression. I wish they could've let him fight Doomsday in any form instead of just watching. There is a piece of concept art of the trinity fighting Doomsday in which Batman is punching his head with some sort of knuckles.

Imagine how hype it'd have been if there was a scene in which he put the knuckles on and Superman asks about them and Batman just answers: "Nth metal knuckles". And Wonder Woman then says "Nothing beats amazonian steel".

...Intimidating?

FUCK ME, IMITATING, I CAN'T READ ANYMORE.

>Superman's arc
Stopped reading here.

Don't use words you don't understand.

You've spent a lot of time finding patterns that don't exist in movies made by a screenwriter who admits he's a hack and a directir with the mind of a young teenager.

All of those movies followed the monomyth

>where is *single element*???
It doesn't need to hit every possible part to conform to the monomyth

You can have a hero's journey without the refusal of the call

I didn't see World, but in Park definitely follows "the hero's journey".

I feel like it's a call back to the older comics though. There were threats too big for Batman. I don't know if this was intentional, but it reminded me of For the Man Who Has Everything, in which Batman stays back while Wonder Woman and Superman fight Mongul. Batman has since evolved from that point to get stronger, so I think this might have been the last chance they had to show him in that state (in this universe). He's the Everyman in this situation, which is really clever considering usually Batman is portrayed as above the Everyman and putting Robin in that situation.

Superman doesn't grow shit. He barely fucking talks.

>in a visual media all develompement has to be shown through words

Do you realize that Superman's reactions to the tests he goes through doesn't have to be explained to you by the character?

No! It doesn't count unless it's specifically in dialogue! Preferably in the form of a quip!

I like this one especially. It shows that Snyder does respect Superman a great deal, but still wishes to give Batman some of the spotlight. So while people will claim that Batman is "cooler," Snyder assures us that Superman is in fact better and correct. I like both equally, but sometimes you do need someone to pick you back up, and who better to do that than Superman?

Sometimes I do feel like Batman, thinking force is the only way and thinking poorly of other people, but it is important to see the good in others.

El-Lel

Is there any proof of this in the film? I don't remember any of that except it being an ancient abomination.

What a hero

sure but is misses like a bunch of steps, and OP specifically was commenting on how MoS and BvS follow EVERY step of the hero's journey.

it mentioned by the AI to Lex in the ship. Its also in the dvd extras of MoS (not that im saying that counts or should be required viewing).

Thanks!