Atheists are such immature posters that they immediately turn every rational discussion into shit flinging. They're thin skinned and puerile. They can't even explain a comic made for children and yet I'm supposed to listen to them about the meaning of existence, or lack thereof.
There is not one (1) single atheist alive who can solve the mind body problem to even begin to make atheism a valid position.
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You are overthinking it man. Just post the fedora memes and watch the butthurt flow. Don't pay them anymore attention than they are worth.
I'll bump you brother
this is the war that needs to be fought
That Jesus is stealing both her teddy bears and she will have nothing, sad!
Good analogy for religion, they will take from you for and you receive nothing
Religion isn't politics
a rejection of a single claim compared to an almost infinite amount of claims anyone could make about anything isn't really a position
Personally i dont believe in god but i think faith has its place in society and i dont think we would be where we are now without believing in some higher power.
To all you people who do keep on doing what you do
Also the small bear might have been passed down from her grand mother or grandfather to her mother to her. It might have immense sentimental value-- but jesus wants to throw that away for something shiny fake and manufactured, something people without any concept of the true value of things would think "objectively better." Even though she says, outright, "I love it, God," he still wants to take it away.
>Let's have a sensible discussion about religion for once
>Atheists are such immature posters
SO all you proved is not having a rational discussion and shouting names, fallacies, and old memes. So glad we can have a one sided conversation. P.S. Fuck Religion
the mind is a product of the body user, an illusion if you will
i keep posting but you wont listen :(
you have an opportunity to save yourself and your loved ones so much pain and horror. i cannot escape it all i can do is tell you
please when they come back it will be too late
THERE ARE MULTIPLE CLICKBAIT RELIGION THREADS
IGNORE THEM
While im not so sure about my own actual religious beliefs, I've only seen Christianity promote good beliefs and values. Honestly these atheists are logically sound within the very narrow borders of trying to solve religion through the scientific method, but fail to really think it through.
>Lets have a sensible discussion
>Atheists are so immature *AD Hominem intensifies*
Kek. Sure showed me.
>lets have a sensible discussion
>Atheists are such immature posters
>they immediately turn every rational discussion into shit flinging.
>They're thin skinned and puerile.
>they immediately turn every rational discussion into shit flinging.
>They can't even explain a comic made for children
>they immediately turn every rational discussion into shit flinging.
Nice sensible discussion you started off there.
You'll grow out of your imaginary friend sooner or later.
Damn. He stole one girl's teddy and is now going after another, even though it's much smaller.
>GOSH DARNIT CHRISTIANS SURE DO SUCK
>*fails to solve mind body problem*
>WHY CANT THEY ARGUE IN GOOD FAITH
>*launches ad hominem
OK guys I guess I'm a #atheistmissile now
>Projecting this hard
>Can't even formulate a proper response after his hypocrisy was pointed out
You even trying?
...
>good beliefs and values
there is a lot of good in christianity. but the contradictory messages of subservience are dangerous. too many christians take it to mean that they need a hierarchy of middlemen between themselves and their god.
the bible keeps telling you that salvation is free and the only way is through jesus
yet you insist on buying fancy buildings in which to gather and paying charlatans whose only consist message is, as Sup Forums so eloquently puts it, "need mo money fo dem programs"
these things prepare you only for servitude
there will be more than enough of that to go around
>for once
>posted every day
No, fuck off.
>There is not one (1) single atheist alive who can solve the mind body problem to even begin to make atheism a valid position
How do you persuade someone in any way regarding an inherently incorrigible belief like the reality of one's own consciousness?
As for my own belief-- I think that we are information. Patterns. The fact that our memories seem to stretch into the past, and that our concept of the laws and tendencies of our universe give us the ability to see, in a limited sense, into the future, doesn't mean that any of that is real.
It's just that in order for our subjective experience to exist, all that's required is a structure that gives us the *belief* that our reality is contiguous. This both devalues subjectivity and promotes it to the only thing that can be imagined to possibly matter.
I don't believe that we are necessarily deluded Boltzmann Brains, it seems simpler to assume that there's a reality behind the projected shadows that make up our perceptions, but the fact that we would be incapable of knowing if it weren't the case should be illuminating.
Also, who's to say that the substrate of our reality isn't constantly changing? It's imaginable, isn't it, that the same pattern can play out on any medium. In infinite time, the same scenario will play out an infinite number of times. If the same pattern existed inside a simulated universe inside of a giant computer as existed at some other place at some other time in the "real" world, IMO they *are* the same pattern, the same people, the same "souls," as long as the information that could tell them apart has no way of reaching their reality. When someone dies, you don't really lose them-- you're only separated until such a time as you meet again.
This also has implications in quantum theory, the reasons behind information being limited to the speed of light, quantum entanglement etc. I won't be going into that here.
You know who else is religious? Muslims.
You aren't a fucking muslim are you?
REKT
I'm an atheist because there is no proof in God and I'd feel like a hypocrite if I believed in God when I always believe that you need evidence before you state something as fact. That being said I think that religious values, especially Christianity and the ten commandments, are the reason why we have civilised societies in the first place. Also while there's no proof god exists, there's also no proof that he definitely doesn't exist, which allows me to hope that he is real because I'm afraid of death being the end. What is this mind body problem, I've never heard of it
Also, identity is a "spectrum." You aren't a discrete individual, not even from one moment to the next, but a configuration of "you"s that share a common thread and causal history.
In this view, you wouldn't want to be "immortal" anyway, because it would necessarily entail never changing, never seeing other perspectives, never becoming anything different from what you are at the current instant.
RARE
>refuses to address the substance of the post by solving the mind body problem
>keeps dodging and staying off topic
Even if your ad hominem were valid, nothing will make atheism valid until you solve the mind body problem. I'll wait. I expect you to keep shit flinging though because you know you're too stupid to know what you're talking about.
I am an atheist, but I think a move back to Christian values would probably do the west a favour.
I can tell you've actually thought about this issue, but none of what you're saying is anything more than conjecture. Hell, it's borderline Marxism in the way it's subversive contrarianism disguised as something "scientific".
That's not a solution to the problem. It's simply an arbitrary belief. That's worse than most religious ideas.
>none of what you're saying is anything more than conjecture
Nah, it'd be better described as a "theory." It's one of those logical theories based on (semi) a-priori knowledge, but in this particular sphere that's all we have.
I hate this exact kind of super-abstract argument usually, but I honestly think it has a nice symmetry to it. It explains a lot to me-- from the fact that anything exists at all, to our own subjective experience. Appallingly large (maybe infinite) amounts of space and matter in infinite time allows infinite possibilities, which explains how, even in an undirected, unintentional universe a group of beings can come into existence to try and ascribe higher meaning to it all.
Arise my brothers! Let us hijack this thread in the name of the Old Ones! ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
So uh, yeah, did I win the thread? It kind of seems like I won the thread.
>Based leaf
!
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0000D
00()
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I think you're entitled to think what you think, but it's still unfalsifiable conjecture even if you choose to call it a theory. Certainly from the atheist point of view of reductive empiricism it falls flat completely.
atheism is not based on the mind body problem
/thread
N E W
>being this uneducated
Haha you sure showed me that only dumb people are atheists??
???
How?
>inb4 newfag
Is anybody actually discussing anything here? How about this:
I'm a fundamentalist Christian who believes the Bible is the Word of God, sufficient for salvation, spiritual growth, right living, and understanding God as far as we are able while still in this fallen world. I think the Catholic Church is a cult and has served since its inception as a tool of Satan to keep people from salvation. I'm not a protestant, and most mainline protestant churches are no better than Catholicism. I'm generally ignorant of orthodoxy, but I'm suspicious of it.
Atheism is a foolish position, just like the Bible says it is, and all other religions are either direct worship of Satan, or indirect via the worship of the created thing rather than the Creator.
what the fuck is the mind body problem
Is it true that atheists vanish/cease to exist forever after theyre dead?
>reductive empiricism
Not really. It's more a conclusion drawn from the empiricism we've been able to glean from reality.
This is where quantum theory, entanglement, and information theory comes into play. The speed of light dictates that most of reality is forever beyond our event-horizon.
Information-- and by this I mean every kind of information, anything that refers to the state of our system-- can't travel faster than the speed of light. It can't move outside of its own event horizon.
To know about something, you must have had an effect on it, no matter how small, and it must have had an effect on you. The speed of light imposes (an absurdly high) natural limit on the number of other atoms and that you could have a causal link
(or entanglement) with. It's possible to define all the states that can be occupied by a single information system.
Now, if we believe that either the universe or time is infinite, then everything I've said naturally follows from that. Everything that is, will necessarily play out over and over again. You will exist again. I will exist again. We will have this argument over and over again-- furthermore, there's probably no calculable difference between all the instances of us having this very argument. It is the PATTERN, the INFORMATION that matters, not the physical instance.
This theory is falsifiable if we could find some proof that the universe isn't infinite. I'm sure there are other ways as well.
By this point you're just being a contrarian faggot.
>The mind–body problem is the problem of explaining how mental states, events and processes—like beliefs, actions and thinking—are related to the physical states, events and processes, given that the human body is a physical entity and the mind is non-physical.[1]
Not sure where you heard this,
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
These are the words of Jesus to Nicodemus. It's worth checking the whole chapter, great conversation they have there, clarifies many questions you may have.
Why is this a problem? Isn't this just explained by sensory input and neurotransmitters?
Yeah, it is, but for religionfags, who probably don't really even understand neurotransmitters etc, this isn't enough. They think there needs to be some deeper reality (that usually takes the form of a transcendent father figure) for our current reality to have any meaning.
How that transcendent reality derives its meaning apparently never crosses their minds.
personally i find it hard to justify some upper being which we cannot even comprehend. worship to me is something which has always been a part of my life due to my upbringing and fundamentally i think that i do believe in a higher power yet perhaps it is the limitations of human intellegence that plague me and all of us, but i cannot justify how worshipping something weekly out of routine in order to try and get on the upper being's 'good side' to be a productive use of my time. Perhaps some day when i have the ability to use my brain correctly due to the advancement of technology which could improve brain-power and overall brain usage, i could be able to see through my clouded human intellegence and be able to understand why it is that i must worship a higher power.
what i am saying is: i think deep down i know, or i feel, like there is a higher power, its just that RIGHT NOW i cant perceive or understand why or how there could be.
>This theory is falsifiable if we could find some proof that the universe isn't infinite
Couple of points:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but most of the latest work in astrophysics points towards a universe with a beginning.
Multiverse theory, which solves all the problems of probability that atheism presents is as unfalsifiable a theory as you can name.
Infinity is a tricky bugger. One thing that a lot of people assume about it is that the monkeys and typewriters will produce Shakespear thing is right. This misses the point of course, monkeys wouldn't hit the keys in such a way as to be able to produce anything intelligible much longer than a word or three, no matter how much time they had. That's not how they operate. Let me know if you don't take my meaning here.
Sounds like you've been raised on works religion.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
well the speed of light dictates that we can never ever understand or find out what is in the total darkness that is countless unfathomable-illions of light years away from what has just come into the light. as such, it surely isnt unreasonable to think that the death of the universe entirely would occur before everything in the darkness comes into the light. therefore, the higher power or the afterlife or whatever comes next could be in this blackness and be completely undiscoverable by any living or dead being. in this way, surely if there is an afterlife it either is a real, physical place, or one that, due to its unreachable location, not exist at all?
all of what i said is incredibly wishy-washy rubbish but these hypothetical ramblings somehow make some small shred of sense to me....
so the meaning of this excerpt is to say that, even though you cannot understand it, by living a just and fair life god may appear to you?
perhaps what you speak of could even be a by-product of death, and that god and life everlasting is created by the mind at death in order to justify and reward yourself for living a good life??
God is real and if you cant accept that fact, or wish to deny it, you just have hatred for your creator for subjective reasons, because you will NEVER disprove him, nor can you prove him, thus rendering any attempt to reject his "existence" futile, and irrelevant.
To the agnostics...keep searching...god is waiting for you, its not a game, its not a joke its not a fairy tale, its more real than our "reality" will ever be.
Um, no.
If you want to get this, start with John. Quick read, gets to the heart of faith quickly.
Briefly, there is no way to make yourself righteous enough for a place with God in Heaven. Christ's sacrifice was sufficient, and He has paid your debt, but you must accept the gift that is offered by placing your faith in Him not in your own righteousness.
Also cf Hebrews 11.
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sage
Wrong thread?
>universe with a beginning
Yes and no.
There might have been some even in our distant past that lead to the current relatively low level of entropy we observe, but that doesn't mean it's the default state of the universe.
In our current understanding, most of the time the universe exists it'll be in a persistent state of heat death. Our current reality could just a blip on a seemingly infinite timeline of darkness. It seems that quantum effects every once in a while cause enough particles/energy/substrate to come together to create another big bang, with enough non-entropy that life becomes possible again.
The main objection to this possibility that I've read is that this destroys information-- apparently, some people believe that if matter can't be created or destroyed, neither can information. That argument seems like a desperate attempt to avoid having to abandon a cherished theory-- especially considering that the existence of hawking radiation basically annihilates it.
I don't know about atits
But Protties are wrong
Another consequence of this theory is that it's utterly impossible to get any information about the universe's previous iterations. It's unfalsifiable whether there were other big bangs before our own or that there will be more afterward.
All we can say is that the mechanics allow it.
If the universe is infinite (timewise at least) but periodically begins and ends, there is essentially an infinite amount of time between endings and beginnings, no? Makes it impossible to add enough [units of time] to get from beginning to end to beginning. Infinity is hard to grasp to say the least.
Hey Atheists-
Solve the visual binding problem.
Explain why consciousness affects the results of RNG machines.
Explain quantum mechanics, because it literally does not make sense without consciousness.
Are you smarter than nobel prize winning physicists?
Explain hydrocephalus. How do people still have normal lives and high IQs while 95% of their skull is fluid instead of brain?
Electrical signals from our brain can cause physical actions of the body, but what gives rise to the signal? We can place electrodes on a person's brain and induce an involuntary action, but so far those actions are never went paired with the will of the person of making the involuntary action nor have we ever altered someone's will through an external stimulus. The soul is what gives rise to the electrical signal that moves the body.
Explain out of body experiences, where entire medical settings are relayed by the patient while that patient has no brain activity.
>After suffering a cardiac arrest, the patient revealed he was able to recall what was taking place around him with eerie accuracy after temporarily dying.
>Dr Parnia said: “This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted,
>but not an experience corresponding with ‘real’ events when the heart isn’t beating.
>“In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat.
>“This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn’t resume again until the heart has been restarted.
>“Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events.”
Explain all the reincarnation cases. Look them up on youtube. I'm not even Christian and I know the soul is real. Gtfo.
>essentially an infinite amount of time between endings and beginnings, no?
Unmeasurable, and not meaningful. If you built a probe with a battery big enough to last until the the next big bang, it won't work. All the particles in that probe would have randomly jumped somewhere else in the universe, dismantling it long before it had a chance to observe anything. In fact, it's probably more likely for a probe to spontaneously form from random particles just in time to observe the big bang than it is for one discrete object to survive over that amount of time. All matter, no matter how solid, behaves like a gas in that kind of time. These possibilities make that kind of ridiculously huge time scale utterly irrelevant. Interesting things can only happen on the order of seconds to trillions of years. Around a 10^10^100 years, time loses its meaning.
Quantum mechanics. It's a bitch.
Time time time, I really need to start proofreading.
I dont want to get too deep in the weeds on this, im just saying that basically infinity minus infinity is infinity. Infinity divided by or multiplied by infinity is infinity. It makes it impossible to get from one period of 'time' to another.
Regardless, I'm persuaded by the Bible for other reasons, and im persuaded that the universe isn't infinite in the first place by the strong evidence for a beginning. So I'm not real tied to defending this infinity thing.
>Explain why consciousness affects the results of RNG machines.
That effect hasn't been conclusively demonstrated.
>Explain quantum mechanics, because it literally does not make sense without consciousness.
No. That's a canard that's been thrown around a lot recently. Consciousness has no effect on quantum mechanical systems that the instruments measuring them wouldn't also do, whether or not any consciousness observed them.
QM has big implications for information theory, and consciousness is a huge subject in information theory, but you're assigning too much meaning to it.
You don't need to invoke this shit to feel like your existence is special.
>Explain all the reincarnation cases. Look them up on youtube. I'm not even Christian and I know the soul is real. Gtfo.
All that shit is more easily explained by other things.
If there's such a thing as a soul it's almost certainly beyond measurement.
>Consciousness has no effect on quantum mechanical systems that the instruments measuring them wouldn't also do, whether or not any consciousness observed them.
wrong. ever hear of dean radin?youtube.com
>Let's have a sensible discussion about religion for once
>Atheists are such immature poster
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand hidden.
>It makes it impossible to get from one period of 'time' to another.
Well it's not infinity, just effectively infinity compared to time scales we comprehend.
> strong evidence for a beginning
When you start on that, you have to ask "what came before" etc. This is a really common atheist argument, but it's exactly true. If you're invoking God as the unmoved mover, why not skip a step and say the big bang caused itself?
I'm not insulting your intelligence or anything. And I don't think what I'm talking about "disproves" God. In fact everything that I've talked about isn't any more incompatible with your interpretation of the bible than the big bang on its own is. My only reason for posting it is to disprove the OP saying the mind-body problem was intractable without religion.
If you're married to this point of view there's not much I can say to change your mind. I don't really want to either-- there are other good reasons to be Christian than trying to understand the beginnings of the world.
And I really don't think you need a god to feel special, but if Yahweh is the only thing that does it for you that's fine by me.
It's going to take a LOT more proof than that. We're going to need these results replicated, and studied in more depth than people have been doing.
Extraordinary claims etc... This single result isn't extraordinary, and it's too easy to attribute the result to shenanigans.
You don't need to ask what came before. God is outside of space/time. You don't need to assume that He is subject to the rules of this universe since He is outside of it and the Creator and Lord of it.
As Paul said, if Christ be not raised, we are of all men most to be pitied. I'm not a Christian because I like the life it produces, I'm a Christian because it's true.
Lol dude watch the whole video. There is so much proof. Experiments that go back decades. IONS publishing a peer review paper about it soon soon.
...
>Also the small bear might have been passed down from her grand mother or grandfather to her mother to her. It might have immense sentimental value-- but jesus wants to throw that away for something shiny fake and manufactured, something people without any concept of the true value of things would think "objectively better." Even though she says, outright, "I love it, God," he still wants to take it away.
I'm not going to pick a side here. I'm just going to say some things. This reply (a common one to this image) is autistic and you know why. It's because it lacks common sense, and digs far too deeply into a simple ass picture. It's not meant to invoke any deeper thought than "Jesus is nice" It isn't a useful image for starting a discussion like this either because everyone just turns into fools arguing about a picture instead of actually discussing the topic.
You're being dumb and you know it, and OP is using a picture that really doesn't have anything to do with the actual discussion besides making people respond idiotically.
That whole line of conversation had been over for an hour until you resurrected it.
Don't care. I already know how this argument is going to go five posts out.
I didn't say I was dismissing it. I was saying it would require a lot more proof than we have now. Scientific history is rife with bizarre shit that turned out to be true-- it'd certainly be extremely interesting if it was.
And even if it IS true that a human observer can affect the outcome of this kind of thing, it might not be because of consciousness per-se-- it might be because of the number of entanglements. In a circuit, an individual value result will only move across a few places in the computer's memory, basically a direct line from where it comes in to the RAM, in a human brain, in order to process information at all each value must cross millions of neurons. We know quantum cause and effect can be reversed, it's possible that the more widely information gets distributed in the future, the greater an effect you'll see in the past.
Don't get ahead of yourself. If the effect is real it does not prove the existence of the "soul".
Nah, the image just represented more than the original author intended. They could have chosen a better way to illustrate their point.
The only place for the weak and degenerate is under the heel of the strong and divine. Christianity, properly taught, prepares the cattle for their true place as the property of REAL humans. Missionaries had the right idea.
>the 21st century
>not being an agnostic
bump
apparently I opened it an hour before I looked at it
whoops
I suppose I'm the dumbass now
There's no proof of a God. Maybe there is one or more than one, but I have no proof and until there's proof it makes little sense to claim there is. I don't claim that there isn't one, just that there's no proof of one.
>21st century
>being Protesturd
either Jesus Christ was sufficient for your sins or he wasn't. Either he forgives you of all sins forever. Or you are partially forgivin like some sort of fancy golf club where the first month of membership is free but every month after you have to pay.Forgiveness will always show it's fruits.
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen." - 1 Clement 32-33
for Church father fags out there.
Basil of Caesarea
: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is justified solely by faith in Christ.”
Basil, Homily on Humility, 20.3.
Jerome “We are saved by grace rather than works, for we can give God nothing in return for what he has bestowed on us.”
Jerome, Epistle to the Ephesians, 1.2.1.
John Chrysostom “God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.”
John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 11.5.
Humans have consciousness to survive. We don't have claws, we don't have thick fur, we are weak compared to many animals and have basic, unenhanced senses. We need to think to survive and secure the survival of the next generation and our own generation. We're conscious so we can think outside the box and use nature for our benefit. We can't just use instinct and our basic skills to stay the same forever, we killed animals to wear as clothes, we find new ways to kill animals to eat, we create weapons to defend ourselves from predators, we create systems so we can live with other humans, we develop religion and philosophy to better society and much, much more.
Consciousness is imperative to our survival as we must take what little we have and use nature to our advantage. It's in our nature to invent more, because we're both smart and lazy. Consciousness gives us a mental room to think deeply on everything.
By lazy, I mean that we use our intelligence to ease tasks and continue to find easier ways to complete them. That's in our nature.
“God justifies by faith alone.”
The Latin says: “Deus ex sola fide justificat”
Jerome – In Epistolam Ad Romanos, Caput X, v. 3 (on Rom. 10:3)
“He who with all his spirit has placed his faith in Christ, even if he die in sin, shall by his faith live forever.”
The Latin says: “fide sua vivit in perpetuum”.
Jerome – Epistola CXIX, Ad Minervium et Alexandrum Monachos
“That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor. Upon this head accordingly Paul has discoursed at length in his Epistle to the Romans, and here again at length. ‘This is a faithful saying,’ he says, ‘and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.’ As the Jews were chiefly attracted by this, he persuades them not to give heed to the law, since they could not attain salvation by it without faith. Against this he contends; for it seemed to them incredible, that a man who had mis-spent all his former life in vain and wicked actions, should afterwards be saved by his faith alone. On this account he says, ‘It is a saying to be believed.’ But some not only disbelieved but even objected, as the Greeks do now. ‘Let us then do evil, that good may come.’ This was the consequence they drew in derision of our faith, from his words, ‘Where sin abounded grace did much more abound’.”
John Chrysostom (Golden Mouthed)– Homilies on First Timothy, Homily 4, 1 Timothy 1:15, 16
Didymus the Blind (c. 313-398) “A person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith. There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether.”[31]
Didymus the Blind. Commentary on James, 2:26b.
For what he saith is this, "Your salvation is not our work alone, but your own as well;for both we in preaching to you the word endure affliction, and ye in receiving it endure the very same; we to impart to you that which we received, ye to receive what is imparted and not to let it go." Now what humility can compare with this, seeing that those who fell so far short of him he raiseth to the same dignity of endurance? for he saith, "Which worked in the enduring of the same sufferings;" for not through believing only cometh your salvation, but also through the suffering and enduring the same things with us. NPNF1: Vol. XII, p. 27
Grace is really important faggots. Eternal reward is a free of charge. Fathers save their sons freely of no price required. How much more with the Lord Jesus Chrst, who absolved us of our sins and gave us victory over our sins and the devil's ransom
Consider the time in which thou didst draw near and set forth a material table, raise thy mind to that Table, to the Supper of the Lord, to the vigil of the disciples, in that night, that holy night.... It is the season of prayers, not of drunkenness; ever indeed, but especially during a festival. For a festival is therefore appointed, not that we may behave ourselves unseemly, not that we may accumulate sins, but rather that we may blot out those which exist.NPNF1: Vol. XII, p. 162
For, "think not," saith he, "because ye have believed, that this is sufficient for your salvation: since if to me neither preaching nor teaching nor bringing over innumerable persons, is enough for salvation unless I exhibit my own conduct also unblameable, much less to you,." NPNF1: Vol. XII, p. 133
Again, if we do all things ever so rightly, and yet do our neighbor no service, neither in that case shall we enter into the kingdom. Whence is this evident? From the parable of the servants entrusted with the talents. For, in that instance, the man's virtue was in every point unimpaired, and there had been nothing lacking, but forasmuch as he was slothful in his business, he was rightly cast out. Nay, it is possible, even by railing only, to fall into Hell. "For whosoever" saith Christ, "shall say to his brother, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire." (Matt. v: 22.) And if a man be ever so right in all things, and yet be injurious, he shall not enter. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 68.
You must be the most high functioning autistic person on this board
I'm not even joking
Holy shit man
Let us not then vainly flatter our own souls with speeches like these; no, let us take heed, let us have a regard for our own salvation, let us make virtue our care, let us rouse ourselves to the practice of good works, that we may be counted worthy to attain to this exceeding glory, in Jesus Christ our Lord with whom to the Father, together with the Holy Spirit be glory, might, honor, now and ever, and for ages of ages. Amen. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 68
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Inever said I wanted to give up good works. Read the quotes. and thre bible verse.
christians are not theistic about shiva
atheists are not theistic about only one more god than a monotheist.
really makes you think.
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