Lex >No one should have that much power, especially and alien. He could wipe out our whole race if we're bot carful, we have to kill it before it kills us.
Zemo
>DUDE MY FAMILY DIED SO I'LL AVENGE THEM BY KILLING THE AVENGERS, WHO TRIED TO SAVE MY FAMILY. THIS RETARDED CONVOLUTED PLAN WILL SURELY WORK. Hail hydra.
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NO ONE CARES
GO BACK TO Sup Forums
Fuck off cuck
Zemo was great, his reasons to hate the avengers were really weak, but the great thing was that he knew how shitty the avengers were and how easy was to mess with them. He was also a lucky bastard, one of the very few good things in that movie along side Antman and black panther.
Lex was a brillian villian, i know you are fishing for BvS hate, but Lex was just great.
His prometheus delutions and Frankenstein arc really made him work.
What kind of convoluted plan would they both make so the avengers and the justice league fight each other?
kys
>>No one should have that much power, especially and alien. He could wipe out our whole race if we're bot carful, we have to kill it before it kills us
This here is a quintessential Lex if i heard one
I don't like the fact that he became so unhinged in the end. Lex Luthor is obsessed not insane.
It's not the motivation, it's how well it's presented/written.
That said, I kinda liked Lex.
>Psht, Batman. There is even a 2% chance that the Avengers go crazy. Go get em.
Send a mail to the League:
The NY invasion was Thor's, Fury's and Stark's fault.
Cap, natasha, bucky and hawkeye are all international killers in some way or another
Ultron was Wanda's, Tony's and Banner's Fault
Antman is a inexperienced thieft
War machine and falcon are black
The avengers got into a little fight and destroyed an international airport in a country half of them entered illegally
There you go. You don't need a convoluted plan. The avengers are either incompetent idiots that put the world at risk, part of a interventionist death squad, or black.
>I don't like the fact that he became so unhinged in the end. Lex Luthor is obsessed not insane.
Sure, but contacting the new gods is a good reason to get into a mental crisis. But Lex is Insane, he isnt mad or crazy, but he is insane.
Eisenberg
>A meme actor with limited range for plebs of slavic/jewish origin
Bruhl
>A thespian with range for connoisseurs of german/spanish origin
Sorry, this isn't even a contest.
I kinda wish they switched roles, because Bruhl as Lex would have been amazing.
>Lex
>Duh, uh I g-I-I got autism bro, uh, uh, uh, I forgot my question, sorry
>Zemo
>I'm also autistic
Both of their plans sucked desu senpai.
Every plan failed, one after the other, and his attempt to prove that Superman was just as morally corrupt than everyone else blew in his face. Plus his creation turned against him.
Lex during the end was with his ego really hurt and that got him angry and desperate.
marvel can literally not write villains. Why do you think their heroes always fight each other?
...
Did people really not understand why Luthor hated Superman?
>dorkly
also the avengers literally tried to save his family, so Zemo's motivations make no sense, and luthor outright explained his motivations
People genuinely are too stupid for DC movies.
Nah, he literally explains it and half of it is DADDY ISSUES. The best motivation.
You forgot that the Avengers are literally the cause of Ultron to begin with. The only point you could make is that his anger should be more focused on Tony. But then again, everyone else has been enabling his faggotry for so long, everyone shares in the blame.
To be honest, most people also fail to understand what just the fuck happened in the last arc of Civil War.
They don't know if Zemo planned for the Cap and Tony confrontation or if he just lucked out, despite the movie showing you what happens.
You've no idea how many times i had to explain this shit to people. They get really confused about this part of the movie. People nowadays just lack attention span.
none.
there's a high chance some avenger's relative is named Martha.
>implying seen her piss isnt hot
>implying it was really piss in the movie
>DADDY ISSUES
Why people take what a VILLIAN says as the truth?
It barely had anything to do with his daddy issues, that's Lex's bullshit, that's how he justify himself.
>also the avengers literally tried to save his family
From the murder robot created by Tony and Banner.
And Wanda was the sidekick of the murder robot
>Zemo, military background with a singular goal
Succeeded
>Lex, one of the smartest men on the planet who knew the identities of both Superman and Batman
Failed
Lmao nice """"villain""""
Just because you can figure it out doesn't mean it was relayed well in the film itself.
BvS fans like to argue that intent and execution are the same thing, that just because a concept is there it automatically means that it was relayed well and therefore anyone who dares question it is wrong by dentition.
You can recognise the intent of a scene and still think it was executed poorly.
>that's how he justify himself.
To whose benefit?
Superman doesn't give a shit, in fact Lex rants and rants and rants and all he comes up with is that Epicurus quote that everyone in the world knows and "my dad beat me, I guess that's why I'm so fucked up."
How deep.
Zemo praises them and shares that it saves him the time having to find them (or something to that effect) which implies he was always going to show the tape the question was just when and where, gay love triangle walking up saved him the trouble
If only lex did enough research to know about MARTHAAAAAAA
He had daddy issues clearly.
I like it when even BvS defenders don't know what they are defending
If that was truly Lex's goal, then why did he end up becoming a pawn for Steppenwolf/Darkseid? Why would he make Doomsday, an alien even stronger the Superman? Also wouldn't a person who has the ability to kill the strongest being have more power than the strongest being? That's hypocritical in itself. Lex had the power to wipe out the entire race.
Which is funny because Wanda was a sidekick of evil because of what Stark did indirectly
It seems every MCU character created a major catastrophe
Its funny how Snyder never likes the idea of heroes having speaking parts yet what stops the fight between the big two is a conversation.
He also has this shitty speech at the dinner party where he basically spergs out and says he has an inferiority complex.
How a guy with such a lack of self-control or oratory skills can be a master manipulator, you'll have to ask Terio.
In my opinion it was relayed really well. It wasn't also one scene, but several.
>Lex >No one should have that much power, especially and alien. He could wipe out our whole race if we're bot carful, we have to kill it before it kills us.
and to do this i'm gonna create uncontrollable monster that's even more powerful than superman
>Why would he make Doomsday, an alien even stronger the Superman?
I didn't hate BvS, but this always bugged me, what would he do if Doomsday killed superman and batman? Hope he could recruit the rest of the meta humans and make a Justice League?
I know it might not be him, but is that Toby Mcguire on the right?
>to whose benefit?
To his own benefit, Lex "i could save the world if superman wasnt here" or that superman slows humanity shit is always bullshit. Lex lies and deludes himself.
Lex does give you his reasons, what he REALLY believes during the party. his entire prometheus speech is about himself. He just like Victor Frankenstein see himself as a modern prometheus, lex is pure ego. His "daddy" issues were bullshit, god wasnt there to stop his daddy's fist, but when superman is there to stop doomsday that doesnt change anything, lex keeps hating superman and will always hate anyone who is above himself.
How is that not like in the comics? how many times Lex plans backfired? He thought he could get rid of doomsday later and probably be a hero. He doesnt care if half of the country has to die for that.
Mostly just Tony.
It makes sense though. When having your two characters talk like civilized human beings immediately vaporizes any reasonable conflict, you're going to be reticent to let them have that conversation.
If Thor would had taken care off Loki, Avengers 1wouldnt had happened.
>How is that not like in the comics?
Lex usually as better plans in the comics and is generally smart enough to not get caught.
fpbp
You almost had me but then I remembered that Loki used Tony's tower to open the portal.
Lex grew up believing, mostly because of his father, that people aren't genuinely nice. Specially people with power.
We know this because Lex say to the senators that his father liked to play to the media this image of a great father, what with naming the company with his son's name, and because Lex does the same acting as a "let's save the world" Google-type of Silicon Valley tycon.
That's what pissed him off about Superman. Because here it was someone with a power that Lex doesn't have, acting as a great benevolent hero and being adored by the masses as either a savior or a god.
So Lex wanted to show to Superman and everybody else that Superman was a big phony. That he was just a selfish bastard that knew how to play people as everyone else.
But he doesn't and he can't, because Superman doesn't play ball, and that drives him crazy.
The God parallels and Daddy's speech were just Lex trying to make a point by using the world's perception of Superman against himself.
>in the comics
President Luthor, God of Apokolips and Champion of Humanity
>in the movie
Sperg Lex who doesn't cover his tracks and gets put in a fucking regular jail cell
>Lex usually as better plans in the comics
No he doesnt. Also, this Lex got Superman killed, and Lex gets caught all the time.
It's all in the execution.
>this Lex got Superman killed
...???
Do you not know of the Death of Superman? Am I talking with people who read comics or not?
Explain Bizarro.
>How is that not like in the comics? how many times Lex plans backfired?
Because the movie wants Lex to be both a master manipulator who can intricately plan out a revenge scheme years in advance so perfectly it would make Jigsaw cum in his pants, and also write him as a reckless egoistical lunatic with a god complex the size of a small planet.
What they should have done is move the "Communion" scene with Steppenwolf to right when Luthor first gets into Zod's ship. That would justify he gibbering lunacy and explain why he would be so reckless as to create Doomsday, as well as solidify his hate against Superman.
Yes he did, and Fury weaponazing stuff it's what brought attention of aliens.
Doomsday is hardly a person to be a god. He had no intellect.
>No he doesnt.
Yes he does.
>Also, this Lex got Superman killed,
Crappy writing did that. Lex was just adjacent.
>Lex gets caught all the time
With all his resources, he can't cover his tracks and doesn't have a few million dollar attorneys to get him off and he ends up in jail? That's dumb.
Now's the part where you post the page of All Star Lex in jail, as if that's not just a one shot that DCEU fags insist is shit in every other context.
>He could wipe out our whole race if we're bot carful, we have to kill it before it kills us
>Creates Doomsday who would kill the entire human race
or if you want to say that Batman/WW could have killed him with the Kryptonite spear then... Superman didn't need to die
Which one?
Or superboy. >Because the movie wants Lex to be both a master manipulator who can intricately plan out a revenge scheme years in advance so perfectly it would make Jigsaw cum in his pants, and also write him as a reckless egoistical lunatic with a god complex the size of a small planet.
So lex luthor.
>It doesnt count if he comesback
Fucking idiot.
>President Luthor, God of Apokolips and Champion of Humanity
President luthor ended with everything backfiring. From killing bruce girl to trying to mess with both SUPERMAN and BATMAN at the same time. One thing that he should had known it was a terrible idea, specially when some heroes were already willing to work with him.
As for Johns bullshit? Using that as an argument sounds pretty dumb, it was a terrible story and continues to be a bad idea.
user, it's okay, because he's CRAZY. that means his reasoning doesn't have to make sense.
>Or superboy.
Superboy being half Lex was a retcon that Johns did, injecting his fanfic where it wasn't wanted, and was emblematic of DC shitting the bed with every one of that generation of teen heroes in the mid 00s.
And this was literally fanfic. There's a letter floating around from before he was even a professional writer, he mailed in the idea to D and like a decade and change later made it canon.
Why are you pretending Lex doesnt go to jail all the time?
>Or superboy.
>As for Johns bullshit? Using that as an argument sounds pretty dumb, it was a terrible story and continues to be a bad idea.
So...you're dumb?
>And this was literally fanfic.
I know, and that can be said about god of apokolips.
But is important to name it, after all some people ONLY likes DCAU and Johns Lex and refuse to accept any lex that isnt sexy.
>What they should have done is move the "Communion" scene with Steppenwolf to right when Luthor first gets into Zod's ship. That would justify he gibbering lunacy and explain why he would be so reckless as to create Doomsday, as well as solidify his hate against Superman.
Holy fuck, don't you understand that the "Communion" scene was Lex trying to bargain anything for just a little bit more of power?
Lex made all his plans banking on the fact that Superman's morally corrupt and that people would eventually see this truth, but he was wrong, because people are nice. The actress he hired to falsely accuse Superman went back and told the truth. The senator lady wanted an actual honest hearing to her Superman's side of the story and not a witch hunt. Wallace Keefer was shown to not be a bomber and Lois a good enough reporter to find this. The US Secretary liked Superman and Lois enough to go behind his governments orders and nudge Lois to the right path. Batman still had a bit of humanity left.
People might stumble and fall, but they're nice and thus all his plans failed one after the other and he became desperate, because he just couldn't prove that Superman and, pretty much everyone, was as morally corrupt and selfish as he was. That's when he became fucking mad and desperate as hell. He didn't cared enough. He thought that Doomsday, as his creation, would see things as he does, or follow his cue, but in a bit of irony it didn't. The creature was as mad and selfish as him. After Doomsday, without any other place to go or look for help, he ended up turning to Steppeworlf. He didn't cared enough. If they could give him power, so be it.
I have no problem with him going.
I have a problem with him staying in jail and not getting off on a technicality.
I have a problem with him not hiring Deathstroke to kill Martha out of sheer spite, buying Kent Farm and building a strip mall in its place, because nobody can stop him and he's supposed to be that petty.
Or Waid Lex.
Or Morrison Lex.
Or hell even Landis Lex was better than what we got. I'm actually kind of shocked by that.
Some weird bastard child of daddy issues, militant atheism, and implicitly assuming that Superman is literally Jesus.
Its a pretty convoluted motivation to hate someone, especially tot eh degree that lex does.
>I have a problem with him staying in jail and not getting off on a technicality.
President Luthor spent months in jail and in that time Lexcorp was liquidated and most of its assets bought by Wayner Enterprises. Then after getting out he went right back in despite blaming his actions of a kryptonian vessel and its mind control powers.
Nu52 Lex spent years in jail inside a super-prison of his own design and did his time.
Funny how literally every time I ask why Superman has to be so dour it's because humanity in this universe is so shitty, but now they're suddenly dandy and nice.
>The God parallels and Daddy's speech were just Lex trying to make a point by using the world's perception of Superman against himself.
Too bad that's whats in the movie, and the rest of your explanation isn't.
There's also the fact that Zemo never bit off more than he could chew or made shitty snap decisions with too many variables.
Meanwhile Lex almost died the second he created Doomsday.
BvS Lex WISHED he was good as DCAU Lex.
Also, you should probably read some comics instead of shitpost about bad movies Sup Forumsreddit.
I could understand the Doomsday if Lex had a personal beef with Superman, like Superman foiled a scheme of his or something, and he wanted to kill him specifically. But there wasn't anything like that in the movie.
The Lex we got was great.
Except that's not his motivation. The PARTY prometheus shit? That's his motivation.
I have read more comics than you, that's why i don't use cartoons and the most modern interpretation of a character as an argument to go "not muh".
Synder has such a hardon for grand sweeping mythological ideas and visuals that they get in the way of each other and he doesn't properly convey any of them well.
The plot of the movie is predicated on the audience buying into Superman being literally jesus, and the Synder goes and tries to slap authurian mythology on top of the Jesus mythology too, muddling everything, because he can't fucking stop himself.
>The Lex we got was great.
You're entitled to your opinion.
I think he was terrible.
That prometheus stuff? Kevin Spacey did it first, and better.
>I have read more comics than you,
I'm not that guy but I gotta ask how come you DCEU guys never post any? You've read every comic ever apparently but can never cite a damn thing.
Don't forget the Greek mythology stuffed in there too.
And all the iconography stolen straight from Dark Knight Returns without context.
Luthor isn't an atheist and he doesn't see Superman as a literal God.
You can't be this thick-headed, user.
Luthor's speech about gods and Superman was him taking the world's views about Superman, how people see and think of Superman, you know as either a savior or god be it either in a religious or philosophical way, and twisting those views to deconstruct how how the gods of myth and theology really is technicality, as n that those gods and the very concept of God itself being a tribal kind of shit, thus showing to Superman that EVERYTHING is seen or treated in a selfish. ME, MINE, US, OUR. That because the whole fucking point was that Lex wanted to show that Superman was selfish. He wasn't a benevolent and altruist figure. He was selfish and a liar.
That's why Lex used Lois as a bait to set up Superman. Because that proved that Superman cared for his Lois. HIS. Not everyone. But his woman. That's why Lex kidnapped Martha. Because Superman would do anything to save his own mother, even kill someone else.
That's it. Lex wasn't a fucking atheist.
And the best part is Snyderfags are going to leap on your post and deny it when the man couldn't even stop himself from sticking crucifixes all over Clark's grave after we're supposed to be seeing him as a fallible human.
Lex has a personal beef with Superman.
>The plot of the movie is predicated on the audience buying into Superman being literally jesus
The whole movie was about how he isnt a god. That was Clark's whole deal, Superman is a sun god on a conceptual idea, but clark isnt, it's spell in the movie, they literally say "what if he is only a guy trying to do some good?".
> The PARTY prometheus shit? That's his motivation.
God I hope not, because that was a rambling mess of mythology references that he couldn't even finish before sperging out so hard he had to abandon the stage. We don't even hear most of that speech, because the rest of the characters and the camera move on away from Lex, because that speech isn't fucking important.
If that speech was supposed to be a defining moment of his motivation, then the movie 100% failed to give it anything approaching the weight it deserved or convey its importance to the viewer. Especially in light of other scenes talking about his backstory and motivation front and center, which are apparently an elaborate ruse to confuse the viewer that only you, in your super special wisdom, have managed to see through.
You actually made a better case for Lex being an atheist than the guy you're arguing with.
>talking about his backstory
Bad guys are not usually honest.
But you seem to be used to have in your face exposition so you can't get that Lex was quite literally Victor Frankenstein and Doomsday was Adam.
youtube.com
Better version of the prometheus speech/philosophy.
And yeah, half of why it's better is presentation.
SUPERMAN ISN'T A GOD. LEX WASN'T TALKING ABOUT SUPERMAN BEING A GOD AND HOW HE NEEDED TO PROVE THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST.
Jeez. I... i give up.
Sure, but then he literally dies on a hill of crosses after suffering a spear wound in the side and wrapped in his shawl with the presumption that he will rise.
After a movie where everyone treats him as a messianic figure, after MoS that treats him like a messianic figure, and Lex's whole plan is wrapped around the axle of disproving that Superman is god which fails.
If Lex didn't see Superman as a divine standin, the fact that his daddy beating him made him turn militant atheist WOUDLN'T MATTER. He even says 'if man can't kill god, then the devil will do it' when making Doomsday.
The movie is fucking full of 'superman=jesus' motifs and dialog and imagery. If that wasn't supposed to be the message I was supposed to take away from the movie, maybe they shouldnt have shoved it in my face so hard.
You don't understand the end at all.
>"what if he is only a guy trying to do some good?"
Well then maybe the Kino Lord shouldn't have larded up the rest of the film with religious iconography whenever Superman shows up, up to and including his death.
Here's an idea, how about we give Clark a scene where he gets to talk about how he feels and how the story about him is affecting his character.
Oh he's just going to fly away again and whine about Batman? Thanks Snyder, clearly we need another scene of Batman whining about Superman, it's not like the other 12 scenes of this weren't enough to get your point across.
Heaven forbid we cut a single frame of Batman out of your precious kinography.
Adam has characterization. Doomsday does not.
Frankenstein's goal was to create life. Lex's was to end it. Doomsday was a means to an end, not the actual goal, as Frankenstein's monster was.
Maybe actually read the novel instead of going by what Sup Forums tells you.
>I have read more comics than you
Show your proof.
>i don't use cartoons and the most modern interpretation of a character as an argument to go "not muh".
Fucking kek, I was actually defending a new interpretation of Lex some months ago before I have seem it. Turns out that it was still shitty characterization and motivations in a poorly made movie. Why are you defending trash? Are your taste really that bad?
I think the problem is that this version of Luther is a merger of Lex and the Joker. Literally.
The original script way back when had the Joker in it.
And seemingly Terrio just put the two together including Joker's vague multiple choice motivation, which always boils down to "because I can".
It's kinda like the thing they did in the Dark Knight where he has a different story for how he got the scars, hinting at a different motivation for his deeds, every time he tells it.
They wanted to do something similar with Lex, although it doesn't play well with the entire concept of cold calculating genius and head of a technology firm.
>Luthor isn't an atheist
He always is.
Read some comics.
>SUPERMAN ISN'T A GOD.
We know that, but to the people in the story, he is. You guys have spent the last six months telling us that Clark was bummed because everyone was treating him like a god, remember?
And Lex is a person in the story too.
You can't be this dense, the crosses are there to evoque an idea, not to say he is jesus, Lex literally call him APOLLO, he is a SOLAR DEITY to us, the viewer, the people watching the movie and the people that made his stories the modern equivalent of Hercules or folk tales.
But in universe he isnt a god, he is just a normal guy, why is so hard to understand the duality of a character? the role they have in a story, how people in universe see him and what he means to the audience are not the same, and being confused about that means you are an idiot.
So predictable. It's almost sad.
>how about we give Clark a scene where he gets to talk about how he feels and how the story about him is affecting his character.
We got that when he calls his mom, once second after the montage.
But if we assume that Lex is lying there (lying to who, even? the only other person in that scene doesn't want to hear this shit and is trying to get Lex to talk about something else) we open up a gap in the narrative with nothing to fill it (because the movie never supplies an alternative, even if your fanfiction does THE MOVIE does not) and we wasted time on showing it.
So either that is what we are supposed to be taking away as his actual motivations, or the movie wasted time to tell us nothing in the hopes that it would trick people into believing the wrong thing that doesn't matter because its context instead of action. In the former case, the writing is bad. In the latter case the writing, the film making AND the direction is bad.
He is saying his role and character is not being an atheist, Lex liking burgers and basketball play a role as important in the movie as him being atheist