Why is Argentina so horribly run even by the standards of many Latin American countries?

Why is Argentina so horribly run even by the standards of many Latin American countries?

I just read through a 62 page PDF file about the overall health of their economy, and it’s a fucking clownshow of atrocious decisions.

Other urls found in this thread:

oecd.org/eco/surveys/Argentina-2017-OECD-economic-survey-overview.pdf?TSPD_101_R0=abfb2cf17cba957c889a53bb8bfed9b0mA300000000000000002e7cc34affff00000000000000000000000000005a983c490099f8602e
hacer.org/pdf/Aguinis07.pdf
eldinamo.cl/blog/maduro-y-la-ignorante-pseudo-izquierda-que-lo-defiende-en-chile/
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/analysis/47496.stm
mobile.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/world/asia/07seoul.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

socialist/populist mentality of a huge portion of the population.

Socialism runs deep in SA, the only reason we are not communist is because we are next to USA.

>even by the standards of many Latin American countries
what countries are you talking about?

I will explain to you. In Latin America average people don't like to work. They just work because the money. Also, we don't value education unlike east Asians and western europeans.

This is why so many of latin americans believe in populists and muh welfare. So we don't have economic freedom and they spend lot of money in public companies and welfare, also corruption.

Mexico is left wing as fuck too, otherwise you weren't dominated by narcos

>Mexico is left wing as fuck
And proudly so, I don't know where the fuck we get these meme idiots roleplaying as edgy South American right wingers

Chile, Brazil, Colombia and even Mexico seem to have a better sense of direction in how to improve their countries. Argentina looks like it’s headed down the road of Venezuela.

This is why you and the rest of latin america is fucked. If you were right wing, you could have even death penalty for drug dealers just like Malaysia or Singapore

>improve their countries
Sauce? What do you mean about "improve"?

Their last presidential administration was a fucking mafia, they did awful things with the economy just to maintain power, also, their population is too brainwashed by statism and populism

c o r r u p t i o n

Leftist mentality too. People believe too easy in socialists because of this

>you could have even death penalty
Yes, this is why we're fucked, we don't give the corrupt elites in power the ability to legally murder us. You sound like the kind of idiot that unironically looks at the age of south American dictatorships and death squads with yearning.

Nah, it's the other way around, we've allowed too many people to wield power who are only out to profit themselves. Do what you will in your country, we've got a very different history we need to get back on track.

It's actually a shame, in 1930 Argentina was even better than Australia and the 8th economy in the world, in 1950 Buenos Aires used to compete with New York. Then Perón came and they closed their markets and improved public deficit a lot

>in 1950 Buenos Aires used to compete with New York

Enjou being a new Venezuela with failed ideologies then.

Argentina’s corporate tax rate is laughably high to the point where I doubt any of their corporations actually pay it and very likely just dodge taxes. Inflation is through the roof, their economy over the last several decades has stagnated/gone backwards at a rate that only surpassed in Latin America by Venezuela. They rely heavily on upper earning taxes whilst being a country that really doesn’t offer any reasons for upper earners to actually live or operate there. Upper level Education is shit, and the people who actually pursue higher education in most cases do so with the intention of leaving for better pastures after getting a degree.

Argentina is an example of how to run a country in to the fucking ground.

Don't worry bro, just try and effectively seperate governmental powers, lower taxes gradually, simplify your tax code, reduce regulations, and lastly invest on education and infrastructure

post the PDF nigga

>he reads a 62 page PDF file about argentina
nobody in argentina read that file.

We're not Venezuela dumb fuck, the Mexican revolution took care of we will never have re-elections. You really are just an idiot talking shit about a country you know nothing about.

This will never happen because communists are too strong there.

Average Latin American is so dumb, but so dumb, Venezuela is collapsing, but there are still plenty of communists in all latin american countries supporting Venezuelan regime

Yeah and even after all of that its still better than a lot of lat american countries...

We will be different commies, I swear!

>tfw immune to socialist brainwashing and corruption

Thank you based Milton

oecd.org/eco/surveys/Argentina-2017-OECD-economic-survey-overview.pdf?TSPD_101_R0=abfb2cf17cba957c889a53bb8bfed9b0mA300000000000000002e7cc34affff00000000000000000000000000005a983c490099f8602e

Lmao what are you even talking about? The majority here is neoliberal while thinking we are a first world country that's why we are fucked up

>plenty of communists in all latin american countries supporting Venezuelan regime
Talk for your country, commies here don't support Maduro

What? Their last elections were full of commies and they almost winned.

Nice to know I'm not the only autist who reads shit like this

Yes, democratic socialism is the same as communism, haven't you seen all those Swedes languishing in gulags?

Yeah, nice strawman, guess actually doing honest arguments is over your head.

El atroz encanto de ser argentinos
hacer.org/pdf/Aguinis07.pdf

You cannot be that big of an idiot. How old are you kid?

Most of the corruption here is done by right-wingers and we are just coming out of a leftist government

They were getting infected too, fortunately, Bachelet got btfo

Sure

eldinamo.cl/blog/maduro-y-la-ignorante-pseudo-izquierda-que-lo-defiende-en-chile/

Venezuela had the 4th highest GDP per Capita in the entire WORLD in 1950.

The fact that you can’t be convinced of the economic problems of your country until experiencing an actual collapse is literally the biggest problem of your country. Chile has long since left you in the dust despite having a much worse starting point.

>almost winned
>almost

So I think we can all agree that beaners do not deserve democracy, all they ever do with it is put the commies in charge

>brainwashed leftie Mexican defending his country being one of the most violent shitholes on the planet by saying he'd rather have cartels run wild than the government be able to control them

Truly, liberalism is a violent mental disorder. And we think it's bad in America

>macri
>commie
sure thing

Old enough not to be an edgy kid glorifying trickle down economics and murderous fascist dictators

And the French love peronism.

Macri’s 50% and counting devaluation + 25% inflation is sure helping!

Basically this. Almost all Latin American countries need a Singaporean tier fascist dictatorship. Probably all, because in the last Chilean elections they almost elected a commie.

>Some people in twitter says blablabla
Ah yes, that shows that they are chileans, after all no one outside of Chile can use twitter, right?

>1950
??? So?
Yeah, I know this country is terrible in actual economics, but like I said after all of that still a great latam country

>they almost elected a commie
Guillier lost with 45%, that's not "almost"

>defending his country being one of the most violent shitholes
Mind quoting that?

There's a reason civilized countries have abolished the death penalty, want me to post a map?

Do people that think "le based chile is anti communist" know that since 1990 we've had only ONE right-wing president?

a lot of people here, think that we are europeans and that we can afford an european life.
having huge states, but they forget that europeans are well skilled people. while in this country most of us are uneducated amerindians. so we can't sustiant such state.

You literally don't know nothing about the history of trains of my country

>Argentina is neoliberal

It is objectively fucking not. Places like Sweden and Australia have half the tax rate that Argentina does.

Argentina tries to have all the benefits of being a developed country with a cushy welfare system, while not actually wanting to work for it.

No, they and the ones that say "commies are going to make chile worse" don't know who were our presidents

>Yeah and even after all of that its still better than a lot of lat american countries...

that is gonna change soon if we don't do something friend.

Son yankis que leyeron un artículo de wikipedia sobre pinochet, no les des bola

The previous government was protectionist, the one before it was neoliberal, and the current one is neoliberal
>Argentina tries to have all the benefits of being a developed country with a cushy welfare system, while not actually wanting to work for it.
That's what I said "while thinking we are a first world country that's"

The only thing proping Argentina up is working immigrants moving there as a step up to get in to better countries. Argentina relative to other countries keeps getting passed.

>Perón

Argentina was declining since 1913. And that was solely a temporary commodity boom.

>here's how Bernie might still win

this.

a lot of people here don't get this.

The right is the most corrupt in Chile tbqh

Due to WW1
We can´t have a good economy because we rely on external factors, but when we close our imports it gets fucked up real quick too
>guessilldie.png

wrong country fr --- oh fugg

>The people who actually pursue higher education in most cases do so with the intention of leaving for better pastures after getting a degree.
Objectively wrong.

>The only thing proping Argentina up is working immigrants moving there as a step up to get in to better countries.
I wish you were right, but youre wrong.

>Trujillo
>not the greatest south american that has ever lived

It might be edgy to believe in order and hierachy and ethnicity, sure, but it's so much more edgy to believe in the good will of the people. It's edgy because you know it's naive and you're only doing it either ironically because it goes well with your horrible music taste or for the hipster pussy.

You are the worst Brazilian on this board

You are here 24/7

You are another kid glorifying economical disasters of murderous communist dictators, stop lying.

Evita was pseudofascist though, she's nice

Macri doesn't do reforms because that would touch a lot of interests of syndicates, rich men, etc.

For example, they need to fire about 1 million people from state jobs, but he won't do it, and no one will do it because, if he does it, Argentina's streets will become a fucking war zone between commies and police, also, investment doesn't come due high taxes, so their central bank always has to get debt or print money, which causes inflation, he does both.

Did someone say trains in Argentina?

No congressional or senate majority though

Oh yes, those brilliant alt right tactics, just repeat the lies long enough huh?

>Read a 42 pages PDF (you won't trick me, 20 pages are wasted )
>Expert in Argentine economy.

Basically, there is not “cheatcode” for development.

In the global economy, you are going to pay one way or another.

Let’s look at South Korea as an example.
In 1954 South Korea was a destroyed nation with a lower GDP per capita than sub-Saharan Africa.
In 1954 Argentina was an industrialized nation with a GDP per capita similar to Italy or Asspaña.
In 2017 South Korea’s GDP per capita hit $30,000 while Argentina’s fell to $11,000.

Why the difference?
1. South Korea dedicates 70 hrs to work each week.
2. South Korea focused on education, brutal but efficient education.
3. One state-led union (although Argentina had corporatism).
4. South Korea picked the right industry to pursue, high-tech. Argentina picked basic capital goods like tractors and engines.
5. South Korea always stuck to its small budget deficit law. Argentina does not have one.
6. South Korea forces its people to put their money in a bank giving out negative real yields. Argentinina does not, and most people do not save because of inflation.
7. High inflation. Argentina has hilariously high inflation, and their government always bullies the Central Bank (as seen with Macri recently). No one is willing to save.
8. USA gave South Korea economic aid, preferential trade status, and free military defence. Can’t beat that. Argentina is not significant to us, so they get nothing but tariffs.

Argentinians are not mindless drones though with a desire for abusive dictators, so I don’t see how they could have developed as fast as South Korea. Sometimes the way it is, is the way it should be.

Your “neoliberals” are much different than Chile’s. Most of Chile’s leaders after Pinochet were considered left leaning but there is a fucking mile between the actual current economic policies of Argentina and Chile. Chile has one of the most free economies in the world, while Argentina “Neoliberals” have taken absolutely no actions in changing the fundamental policies of the country.

Argentina appears as a recurring joke on the list of OCED countries in several measurements.

Basically he is a neo-Perónist as he always stated. Just like 98% of Argentina. You simply cannot be elected if you make the reforms that are necessary.

The USA is lucky because we have so many natural resources that even crazy leaders making bad choices won’t stop the economy. Not so much for other nations though. They have to make the right choices, and in a democracy that is difficult.

>1. South Korea dedicates 70 hrs to work each week.
Yeah that wouldn't work here, there would be literal riots if that law is passed
>4. South Korea picked the right industry to pursue, high-tech. Argentina picked basic capital goods like tractors and engines.
Yeah our mentality is fucked
>6. South Korea forces its people to put their money in a bank giving out negative real yields. Argentinina does not, and most people do not save because of inflation.
Well, nowadays poeople don't trust banks as much as they did due to the 2001 crisis (for example what happened at the end of Nueve Reinas)
>8. USA gave South Korea economic aid, preferential trade status, and free military defence. Can’t beat that. Argentina is not significant to us, so they get nothing but tariffs.
This
>Argentinians are not mindless drones though with a desire for abusive dictators
Wel, you say that but...

Overall I agree with you burgerbro

>"alt-right"
The typical faggot tactics, parroting made-up buzzwords.

Chile’s “free” economy is supposedly a fake World Bank shill story now.

>Argentina “Neoliberals” have taken absolutely no actions in changing the fundamental policies of the country.
Said that to the trais, fucker

I like to call a spade a spade, you're unironically a /poltard aren't you?

I think the only way Argentina is going to be able to fix things is hitting rock bottom. The country is just too entitled and not willing to sacrifice their current level of comfort to make things better for future generations.

Nigga we've been hitting rock bottom since 1810 what are you even talking about?

In 1998 during the Asian Financial Criss, South Korea’s economy collapsed and housewives in the millions donated their wedding rings/necklaces/family savings to the Central Bank just to keep their economy afloat.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/analysis/47496.stm

That would never ever happen here or in Argentina.

People don’t get that East Asians have a completely different mentality from more Western individualistic societies.

This is why hopelessly comparing your nation’s economy to another nation’s is pretty idiotic. Either you sacrifice your livelihoods and happiness (and birthrate) or you stay relatively poor.
Argentina should make more minor reforms. But it will never catch up because its people are not de-facto corporate slaves. And that’s okay.

The meek will inherit the Earth. When all the childless people die out.

You spout whatever other morons regurgitate.

>I think the only way Argentina is going to be able to fix things is hitting rock bottom. The country is just too entitled and not willing to sacrifice their current level of comfort to make things better for future generations.

i agree 100% with you.

are you an argie living abroad? otherwise i don't know how you get such a wise opinion.

another 2001.

If you had any experience actually reading through pages and pages of statistical country comparisons, you’d know how ridiculous it is to say the economic improvement of Chile is some crazy conspiracy.

We've consistently fucked up our economy while they've been improving theirs for 30 years. The only reason we're fairly good in terms of gdp per capita is because we started decaying at a high point and they've been rising from really down low, so while we might appear richer now, give it a couple more decades and we'll be left behind.
We used to hold the "highest gdp per capita in the region" crown, but nowadays 2 out of 5 of our neighbors already surpassed us in that.

Srlsy, why do you guys elect so many commies and shit-tier politicians like Mujica? I'm not trying to offend you or something, I just want to understand.

Yes, Argentina is like a hamster running the wheel thinking they are getting progress, and it doesn't seems like it's going to change..

Argentina is FAR from rock bottom. Go take a trip to Venezuela.

Argentina is set to become a major political player whenever they want to. They have one of the most fertile agricultural regions on the planet,in a world where the population is growing disprortionally faster in lands with barely any good arable land that rely on agricultural imports.
Their population core is in the basin of a navigable river in which you can transport stuff at the cheapest of costs.
They own part of the biggest lithium reserves in the world in the age of electronics.
They own with Brazil and Paraguay of the biggest renewable energy sources in the planet
Their demographics are excellent with a sizeable old working population to increase capital flow and lower interests,mixed up with a sizeable young population to consume.
If they play their cards right they might surprassed Australia and Canada economically.
The most likely scenario is that they will screw it up and remain a joke but the possibility is there

mas argentinos se tendrian que dar cuenta de esto. y tomar un baño de humildad.
es increible como tanta gente se sigue comparando con chile, pensando que no estamos tan mal, cuando ellos vienen de lo mas bajo y nosotros de lo mas alto.

Yeah. Mostly.

A few points though:

The development of South Korean can't be reproduced, the new rules of the WTO forbids Argentina of using the same tactics used by South Korea in the past.

South Korea had lower wages than Argentina back then, which allowed to have competitive advantages in most sectors. And they kept their wages low for 25 years or so. This is impossible to do in a country like Argentina. Freeze the wages and you will have your head rolling down the Plaza de Mayo.

>6. South Korea forces its people to put their money in a bank giving out negative real yields. Argentinina does not, and most people do not save because of inflation.

This is somewhat false. The commoner wants to save, but it can because of inflation as you said. But the Argentine normally uses one of three saving metods:

1. Real State
2. Foreing Currency
3. Fixed income instruments.

From these, only number one offered some kind of long term protection.

Notice how I didn't say Bonds or Equities. The local capital market is really small.

That last one was Peron's fault. Which is a long story, but he basically destroyed the most advanced Capital Market in Latin America even though he had a "good" intention.

Cozy lies being far more popular than harsh truths, the population not realizing the importance of building atop true and real statements, instead choosing the feel good politician

mobile.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/world/asia/07seoul.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

>SEOUL, South Korea — When the global financial crisis struck more than two years ago, customers disappeared from the Dongdaemun market, a cramped maze of clothing and fabric shops in the shadow of a medieval city gate. But in contrast to the economic conditions in the United States and Europe, business quickly rebounded here and in the rest of this vibrant, technology-driven nation, a resilience that many South Koreans attribute to their bitter experience of having survived an even worse downturn, the currency crisis of 1997.

>“This time didn’t feel so much like a real crisis,” Kim Soon-nam, 70, said as she surveyed customers from her small stall, which is filled with running pants and brightly colored dress shirts. “It was hard back then, but that hardship made me stronger.”

>The Asian currency crisis is known popularly here as the I.M.F. crisis because the danger of economic collapse forced South Korea to swallow a tough bailout package from the International Monetary Fund that closed big banks and industrial companies, led legions of workers to be laid off and prompted citizens to donate their gold to the national treasury. It was a collective trauma that is remembered here on the scale of the Great Depression in the United States.

>But South Korea was able to bounce back and resume the soaring growth rates that have enabled its gross domestic product to double since 1998, catapulting South Korea into the ranks of the world’s wealthiest nations. The latest surge began within months of the financial panic of late 2008 and has continued in every quarter since, according to the Bank of Korea, with the South Korean economy now ranking as the 15th largest in the word. The nation’s capacity to emerge from not one but two debilitating financial crises without prolonged stagnation is drawing attention in a world that suddenly needs economic role models.