How come no one talks about the fact that Jon and Daenarys brought a bunch of savages to a civilization that is much...

How come no one talks about the fact that Jon and Daenarys brought a bunch of savages to a civilization that is much more culturally advanced?

Assuming they win, what about all those dothraki and wildlings roaming free in westeros in the times of peace? Are they simply abandoning their old culture? no more raping, pillaging, being easily proned to violence, accepting the use of currency and laws?

That sounds highly irrealistic. In reality it not only would halt the progress of westeros as a society, but make it go backwards.

Why is no one talking about this?

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I only see maesters and alchemists there

explain the cultural differences between Northmen and wildlings

Literally everyone brings it up. Do you watch the show?

I'm talking about the normies that sheer for Jon and Dany.

One can follow a set of laws, the other only follow the law of force.

>One can follow a set of laws
oh really, those guys seem to break those laws more than follow them, howbowdah

its like using an army of muslims to conquer europe and not expect them to enact sharia law.

Dany and Jon are extremely short sighted.

They don't though. The Northerners are the most honourable people in the show.

You mean the high born in times of war?
OK, sure.

but in times of peace the small folk and highborn can coexist in a system of law.

Meanwhile savages are always savages.

Is this a joke? There's a huge difference

>irrealistic

the mongols integrated themselves into the more advanced cultures they conquered
the mongols were smart as fuck though while the dothraki are retarded

>irrealistic

today's episode is just more proof that Daenarys is a barbarian dictator trying to pass as a humanitarian.

Hypocrite cunt.

People do talk about it. Insufferable cunts like you on this board. Constantly

Tell me how I'm wrong, then.

>mfw ive hated daenerys from the start for her unceasing tyranny, and inadequate ruling capability, and now everyone else is catching on

Her character development is laughable, if not inexistent.

She goes from a scared little girl that only wants to live peacefully and for her brother to love her, to YES KILL MY BROTHER IN THE MOST GRUESOME WAY POSSIBLE I AM THE QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNN GIVE ME MY KINGDOM IS MY RIGHT ITS MINE THE MOTHER OF DRAGONS

Bravo Martin.

They are going back to essos.
The have no reason to have slaves or steal gods anymore, they only exist for war.


Pay attention you absolute dumbass. Remember, Dany destroyed their sacred city so their culture went to shit and how they must live in eternal war. They won't stay in westeros once is conquered, they will and need to chimp out in braavos and the rest of essos until everything has surrended and then continue east.


I know /r9k/ are just crying betas, but being a brainlet doesn't mean you shouldn't understand a shitty TV show

i think anybody that read the books hated her just for how much her parts would break the pacing

You don't care. You want to pretend this is something about Arabs and other retarded shit about liberals, you will ignore any answer.

Kek

No, I won't.

I'm actually pretty invested in the books despite knowing the show went to shit 3 seasons ago.

This subject is much more acknowledged in the books, so it gives me hope.

Go on, if you think you have a half decent answer to this...

Sure.

And destrying the vatican would make all catholics stop being catholics.

You dumb retarded fuck...

She didnt destroy vaes dothrak, she burned one house down and killed the other major khals. There are still plenty of dothraki in essos, but she has most of them in westeros raping children for her.

They wouldn't go back, they hate sailing, they would most likely pillage and raid Westeros after deserting dany until they get put down, the majority of them will die fighting the Night King, Jon and Jaime wouldn't throw away westerosi men fighting wights when they can kill off dothraki savages.

I literally dont know a single reader who doesnt skip her parts entirely when rereading.

dude your thinking way too much influenced by the refugee stuff happening lately, chill your balls, its a tv show, such problems dont exist in got and no1 cares or should care about that shit

The same thing they do with the Iron Born. Basically tolerate their pillaging bullshit provided they show up to fight when an external threat shows up.

nobody cares because the wildlings are white

Dothraki will get absolutely buttfucked by the white walkers, then ressurected, and zombie dothraki flood the south handily solving the "Tolkien orc problem."

Two possible things will happen:

>They will return to Essos after their purpose has been fulfilled
>They will stay, but will be forced to adhere to the laws of Westeros

why does art imitate life?

Lannisters are the biggest niggers in Westeros.

He should have stuck with the original 5 year time skip.

Seriously no amount of "Why did side character plot line also take 5 years to happen" or "Why was this event only alluded as flashback" or "Quite a coincidence it also took 5 years" could be that bad.

historically they either get assimilated to the more advanced civilization or fuck off back to where they came from

Send them over the wall. They become the new wildlings.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is not a single line in book or show that suggests that the dorhraki will be sent back, in their totality, to Essos.

Savages don't simply get UNsavage like that, its engrained in their brain, its all they know. Maybe after many generations...

The likely answer for the show is a thrid option, like that user suggested: they will all die in battle so the writters don't have to deal with this conundrum.

its the easy way out.
they don't want to offend liberals with such an inconvenient reality...

you talk about this every day

They are sand niggers, not ice niggers.
They would die.

The northerners have assimilated into Andal culture, the wildlings will not.

FPBP

Build a wall and make the dothraki pay for it.

>showfags

Did Dany actually buy the Unsullied's freedom? I can't remember anymore.

she gave them a dragon then had it set them on fire

>they will all die in battle so the writters don't have to deal with this conundrum.
You are retarded, and not paying attention if you think this is true.

The writers will write that once YAASSS QUEEN takes over, she'll implement some africa... i mean dothraki culture into Westerosi laws, and they'll peacefully assimilate.

Remember this is hollywood we're talking about, and nobody will really question it, and it will get 100% on Rotten Tomatoes so it must be good.

Legit question. Why would Jaime say that the Dothraki would destroy any army he has ever seen?
How do light mounted archers with poor cold insulation exactly fight the heavy infatry / spearmen levies of the north?
I know Robert said the same thing about them being the literal best thing in an open field, but why? I am not attacking the in-universe logic of Jaime saying that but the logic that light cavalry > Tight Infantry Formations.
Specially when your army is literally just light cavalry and phalanxes.
Why would the unsullied also be worthy in the field in westeros? I understand they would dominate in Essos but they seem completely useless in Westeros if they do formation fighting.

It's all nonsense.

There will probably be some scene where dothraki marry westerosi wimmins en masse end vice versa.

I don't remember who says it, but in the books some knight says that dothraki would be absolutely obliterated if they fought against traditional westerosi armies.

They lack discipline, battle formation, tactics and technology. Those sythes would do nothing against full plate armor.

its just a show thing that they are some super warriors. Its dumb as shit...

>Why would Jaime say that the Dothraki would destroy any army he has ever seen?

Plot convenience.

I was expecting him to make a hell of a lot more noise about the dragon that burned half his army to ashes, because that would make sense. Dragons are the ace she's got, and that's as established by the previous lore.

But no, for no fucking reason the Dothraki savages are now unbeatable. D&D forgot that they already established they're only dangerous because of their numbers and can't beat unsullied or the slave cities in the east.

Somehow superior trained and outfitted troops can't beat some sand people. Because why bother being consistent when you're getting ready to write Bronn & Jamies Awesome Adventure followed by The Epik Journey to the Nurrth.

>I am not attacking the in-universe logic of Jaime saying that but the logic that light cavalry > Tight Infantry Formations.
youtube.com/watch?v=j_QSZkoSosk

Jorah already explained that the Dothraki fighting style and weaponry would fail in battle against heavy infantry in Westeros.
This obviously doesn't matter 6 seasons later, the writers have written themselves into a hole with bad writing and pacing, so there's no time to write better strategy for Dany's armies, so they just ignore logic.

Kinda sucks, things like this are why this show won't hold up to multiple re-watchings, there are too many discontinuities like this.

Take a class of tactical warefare from the rough period portrayed in the books. Also for most of history horse archers were OP as fuck.

t. idiot

ranged cavalry have been the best for all of history, for obvious reasons.
>much faster
>can kill you from farther away

Holds true even in modern warfare. That's why air superiority is the most important factor in warfare today. Pic related.

This isn't a bad thing.

something something open field.

You are going to have to elaborate on that, senpai. What I said has nothing to do with the show.

you're wrong

user steppe horse archers' arrows can't penetrate the armor of the westerosi infantry, and they don't even fight legit horse archer tactics as you would expect them to. Horse archers have an advantage because of their higher mobility and the capability to turn into light cavalry in a blink.
You can taunt and skirmish, but the dothraki arrows wouldn't do jackshit against most westerosi armies. If they did in the ambush of the blackwater caravan it's because the show decided they would have to win, I have a hard time believing their charge would do anything to the 2 ranks of lannister spearmen as you can see the horses just get skewered on the spears and the charge just stops in the choreography, yet we are led to believe they did indeed break through? The show sends mixed messages.

You talk about real life warfare, but do you realize how heavy cavalry is so you can survive a charge? Knights worse the heaviest armor through history. And no, armor doesn't weigh you down, with heavy I mean ammount of protection. Light cavalry is used for intercepting and well, skirmishing. Light cavalry mounted archers is the best setup for light cavalry because it maximizes their potential, but it would be hopeless to do what they did in the blackwater ambush if the lannisters weren't so thinned out. How would you think a light cavalry charge would do against a formation of spears and heavily armored men?

A longbow warbow seems to be the most powerful bow before composites, and the ranged cavalry just doesn't support that kind of weaponry. Their advantage to kill from farther away and use skirmish tactics is nullified by the Westerosi armor, it would work wonders is Essos because everyone is wearing much lighter armor.

He did, but Robert said the opposite thing, and so did Jaime this episode. It's a discontinuity, like you say.

pt. 1

>He did, but Robert said the opposite thing, and so did Jaime this episode. It's a discontinuity, like you say.
I'd trust Jorah, who fought with and against the Dothraki, more than Robert or Jaime who have never even seen them in person before.

Jon did it out of pragmatism. As he said, if the wildlings die beyond the wall it will just add to the Night King's army.

pt.2
They could circle around the westerosi formations for ages if they wanted to, but the Dothraki would have the hardest time charging against them and their ranged weaponry wouldn't do much.

I agree it is completely plot convenience, but it isn't even about organization and discipline. Light cavalry just doesn't work against heavy infantry, that's why there's a thing called Heavy Cavalry, and it is hopeless to use it in a frontal charge against spears anyway. You use light cavalry to pin down enemy units.

See above. It is true, they would be hopeless.

If anyone were to look at mongol tactics it is obviously that they exploit their ranged advantage as much as they can then engage against their comparatively lightly armored foes that are on equal terms. I don't think you could put a mongols 15th century armament and hope them to penetrate half-plate and charge obliviuously against a spearmen levy.

>The leaks were real

oh boi, see this is what you get for hiring pajeets, they leaked a whole season

You sir, i like

Does anyone else in the show, or her fans like from that bar, realize her only authority lies in the dragons? I hope one dies and one gets taken by the Night King soon.

Not him but fine, Even if Dany goes through this whole thing like friggin Gandhi there will be tons of dead enemies and empty castles. She will like every other conqueror reward her followers with the aforementioned lordless fiefs. The fact is feudal societies are basically warlord protection rackets and the peasants will merely find the violent warmongering lord in the Castle now has a funny language a really likes horses. Much like the mongols or the Franks Dany will most likely use her Dothraki as the same kind of military caste that similar cultures always become once they get a taste of the good life.

>robert says dothraki can beat them
>jorah says dothraki can beat them
>jaime says dothraki can beat them
>Sup Forums: n-no they can't beat /ourguys/. something something muh trained soldiers/armor

So they are refugees then? Jon lets in refugees well Daenerys brings in the invaders.

Jon didn't do anything. He's not commanding these troops or even pledging fealty. He just needs something Daenerys has and he doesn't really have to power to challenge her right now so he has to be diplomatic.

I said I was not taking on the in character reasoning. I am talking about the logic behind it in the series. It is poor writing. The dothraki are very lightly armored compared to the real life mongols and they completely ignore skirmishing as they just charge directly. Mongols abused their ranged ability by staying out of reach of the enemy heavy cavalry. If the medieval knights of the time got a grip on the mounted archers they would be completely obliterated.
But whatever you just ignore what I and everyone else is saying, so:

>t. showfag

She used to be smart, that ship sailed after she took Mereen

Finally someone that knows what he is talking about.

It was painfull to listen ''you people don't know how to fight'' and Jaime praising the dothraki' battle power...

Most of them would die of hunger and cold before that, but even if that was not the case, at that time it would be hard to make the case that the white walkers could get past the wall.

Of course they eventually will, from a readers perspective its a cherkovs gun, but from the perspective of the nights watch members it makes not sense, except maybe for humanitarian reasons.

But in the way the stakes were much higher and the nights watch had such few men, they were not in position to accept humanitarian causes, they had to think in the bigger picture.

It made no sense in the book or show and Jon deserved to get stabbed.

>Westerosi
>civilized

ah yes, the civilization of incest and murder as a problem-solving mechanism

They can barely speak the language of the land and you expect them to become lords? just like that? come on man...

incest is not looked with good eyes by any house, except the Targaryans.

murder is a crime, its also only accepted as capital punishment for the worse crimes, after a sentence.

owning slaves is also forbidden.

Stop talking out of your ass, dumb showfag.

It's exactly what happened with the Mongols in China (They spoke Mongolian) the Normans under William (They spoke French not English) and a thousand other invaders. If Dany wins you'll have in a thousand years a bunch of pale-skinned Westerosi speaking lords bragging about their "Proud Dothraki Heritage" when they don't know a word of Dothraki or even want to fuck their horse.

Oh no, I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about but I just run through what I think I know and try to use logic as much as I can. It's just that the dothraki are retarded mongols. As in, they are mongols but completely dumbed down. Mongol tactics worked because they did it right. They didn't charge using their mounted archers because they had their own heavy cavalry to deal up close. You want your archers to be quick and be able to skirmish around, and you don't want them fighting heavily armored knights. They could penetrate their armor because they were using bodkin points and compound bows. I don't think dothraki are using compound bows. Last time I cheched they were just "cool designed" "eastern looking" kind of bows with a slight curvature.
Not mentioning that the dothraki have overall lighter armor than the Mongols and the Westerosi have armor fitting for 14-15th century.

I agree it was painful to listen to that dothraki with the your people can't fight meme.

A full frontal dothraki charge against a poorly trained spearmen levy wouldn't last a round.

GoT is now a Disney movie. The showrunners completely changed the point of the show starting with Season 5. Maybe sooner idk I'd have to rewatch the series. Probably never will since the well is poisoned.

If the same thing happened it would take several generations to recover from that culture shock that would halt progress for years.

Why people sheer for Dany again?

>ah yes, the civilization of incest and murder as a problem-solving mechanism
Incest is forbidden by Andal culture, but it was brought over by the Targaryens who wanted to keep their bloodlines pure. They also brought with them Targaryen madness.

I don't know. Because she's a woman? Like, maybe?

People keep saying that everyone is muhsoginistic for not liking dany but if she were a man I would hate him so fucking much. Like, literally Aegon 2.0. A random cunt who shows up late at the party with like three flamethrowers and burns the house down.

>Jon
wut

hey we can drop the pretense if you want but i promise you would lose

Of all the possible candidates, this is what women chose as an icon for women empowerment?

It boggles the mind...

>fiction
who the hell cares

Hated her since book one.

mercy is fictional as well, user

>A random cunt who shows up late at the party
So, I'm assuming you hate Jon too then?

I mean they follow orders pretty well in the show and Dany seems like she has them locked down. So they'll probably integrate and it won't be a plot point really. Sorry about your autism.

>He's not commanding these troops or even pledging fealty.
yet

Catelyn is a much better written character.
Her complexity made her real, her mistakes made her tragic. Daenarys is a mary sue since book 2.

It doesn't help that the actress that plays cat in the show makes Emilia Clarke look like a cosplayer trying to act...

I don't mind Jon, he isn't burning the local lords alive because they don't kneel.

The Dothraki are idiots in universe as well. The entire backstory of the Unsullied is that only a dozen or so Unsullied protected a city because the Dothraki just kept trying to charge right into their shield wall.

It's not even correct to compare them to Mongols since the Mongols were absolutely evil about siege tactics (catapulting corpses of men who died of the black plague over city walls). Even Huns would gleefully take the armor off dead Roman soldiers for themselves. I feel like Dany is supposed to be a subverted Honoria in some way, because she married a man who was a lot like Attila with the promise of using her claim to take the throne with the horde army.

She can control them in war times while they have the prospect of fighting and maybe looting castles and shit.

Lets see when the war is over. But you can't see 10 feet in front of you, right? not the clever type huh?

They are kind of based on the mongols but completely stereotyped.

They don't use proper mounted ranged tactics and they wear extremely light armor and all kinds of "super cool eastern weaponry" stuff.
The mongols were good at sieging, but they just adopted a bunch of tactics from everyone else and adapted them for their own needs.

not just that. people severely underestimate mongolian STRATEGY and think that it was all their superior tactics and superior steeds.

in reality, the mongols who invaded middle east were extremely careful leaders. they would send thousands of spies, get maps, get lists of where each army is stationed, learn how strong each fort is, send spies in major cities and get them to see if they could bribe the gate captains. they won because of their smarts, not because of their savagery (but people get confused because of the looting).

the dothraki are the complete opposite of that. the only thing they militarily have in common with mongols is having a cavalry based army. they are turkic caricatures based on stereotypes.

This. They're completely useless during winter and the North.

I have some good news for you user...

So what are you trying to get at here? I mean your point is valid but if you think the show is going to take time to address this sort of thing you're pretty dumb. There is no room for your autistic sense of realism in this fantasy show anymore.

dothraki are more like cartoon barbarians than any real culture really