DJT - Daily Japanese Thread #1978.5

HEY, WEEB! Why haven't you learned Japanese yet?

Read the guide before asking questions:
djtguide.neocities.org/
All resources you need are in the Cornucopia of Resources:
djtguide.neocities.org/cor.html

Older threads: desuarchive.org/int/search/subject/Daily Japanese Thread/

Previous thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

sporcle.com/games/zherry/top-100-kanji-by-meaning
kotobank.jp/word/鸊鷉-458033
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/カイツブリ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_grebe
hiro.asks.jp/100252.html
youtube.com/watch?v=kq7O6eR12oM
jisho.org/search/牽 #kanji
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epenthesis
youtube.com/watch?v=xuBFwq-7W-w
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

...

Come user, it's fun.

what vns are good for a begginer?

Nanairo Reincarnation.

This
It's simple and clean.

ty im going to try it, is using interactive-text-hooker to translate words I don't know is a good idea?

Use the ITHVNR set-up in the guide resource list to look up words with Yomichan. Don't use machine translation

彼女の許可を得ていないけど、僕は下半身へ手を伸ばした。
彼女「やぁんっ……! くっついているだけじゃなかったの……?」
彼「くっついているだけで、たまたま」
What does たまたま refer to here?
Context is eroplay.

>sporcle.com/games/zherry/top-100-kanji-by-meaning

95/100 up to the 4:00 minute mark, then I was only able to get 発 for that whole duration.
Got wrong: 相対氏党

620 cards today. Fucking hell lads. What is everyone else doing to learn? There has to be a better way than this

>cards for learning
Cards are for review friendo. Go read.

>Go read.
I've been trying to, but couldn't find the book I wanted to read, so I've been doing cards for now

Haven't started reps for today.
A few weeks ago I deleted my mixed premade and mined vocab deck after missing months of reps and being in a slump, with the idea to start anew with a pure mining deck. A couple of days ago I found myself digging through backups and found my old vocab deck, filtered out all the mined words and added them to a clone version of my current mining deck. Since adding it back into the mix I've been chipping down the reviews and plan to eventually bulk move all the cards to the main mining deck.

Since those words were mined from things I enjoyed reading, it was a little too much to simply forget them all so easily.
The premade cards aren't as huge of a deal to forget and I'm sure over time a few thousand of them will find their way into my mining deck simply due to how aggressive I am with adding words I felt the need to double check the meaning or reading of while reading.

It actually feels a lot better this way, even if the reviews are higher at the moment. Can't really say it is a better way than what you are doing because I don't really have an idea of your general passive vocabulary. My current approach may not work without already having a beginner base passive vocab of I don't know, 5~7 thousand words or "facts" mature in Anki.

Getting back into daily Anki reviews has been vital, though. Just last week I came across a word in scrawled handwriting in a manga page that I would have been fucked to make out if not for having forgotten and subsequently reviewed it a few times in Anki since starting back up. It was a bird name in kanji which is usually in kana - 鸊鷉 - but really hard to make out. The general shape was enough.

Daily reading plus mining and reviewing is much better than one or the other. At least if your memory is attrocious like mine.

So you want to learn the language to read a total of one (1) book?

I hope you're not the straya guy who was making frequency based decks more than a year ago with over 3000 kanji, because that reads like a huge setback from where you should be by now.

But in a way having a purely mined deck seems like a good thing in order to add as many words as needed for kanji with multiple readings. I'm at 12k and still find lots of basic kanji with new readings because Core didn't include them.
Example: 抗う 普く
Whereas with kanji that weren't on Core and I manually added, I did it with both on and kun'yomi, so the coverage is broader.

My listening is so shit and isn't improving

I can read most things with no issues but cant understand half of what people are saying in TV shows and poscasts

Feels bad man

try watching tanami galaxy user, its a breeze

Start small. gdgd fairies, then shounen, then doramas, then TV.

And you can add subs to doramas in the beginning, pausing things to understand them better, since more "real" Japanese has a different hue to it. TV is nice because it's partially subbed, so you get some hints, but ultimately have to fill in the blanks.

I have more than 3k kanji from mining alone.

you're probably just overthinking shit and actively trying to translate the sentences in your head instead of just "getting" them

熟女バンプ

Can we just keep those threads dying all the time again?

Are you sure it was 鸊鷉? Hard to imagine that being handwritten without furigana.

たまたま means "as it happens" or "just happen to"

日本語でも英語でも、そんな言葉聞いて事ない

>It was a bird name in kanji which is usually in kana - 鸊鷉 -

kotobank.jp/word/鸊鷉-458033
鸊鷉 カイツブリ

ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/カイツブリ
カイツブリ

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_grebe
Little grebe

desu :3

奥さん、パンツ見えてますよ?(´･ω･`)

More familiar with flowers, fish and trees in Japanese than English by this point. 鸊鷉:ugly little brown 水鳥。In English? Don't know.
>聞いて事ない
The appropriate form is past tense, not progressive. 聞いたことない。

nope

>鸊鷉
Doesn't appear at all in the DJT Library or Aozora.

>tanami galaxy
Did you typo? Google isn't helping here

seriously?

tatami galaxy :-)

まだ

まだまだ

どうして疑問文でそれを言った?説明教えてください。

Read more manga.

What's the general consensus on imabi?
Not sure if it's just me but I think he has a weird ass way of explaining things.

Ok.

If you trust people who claim to have authority on a subject more easily, it's a good go-to resource.
If Tae Kim doesn't click for you, it's also a good resource.

Whichever beginner material you pick, it'll just be a stepping stone so you can reach more advanced guides in the future, so don't worry too much about it.

I bet the dignity of the Canadian flag that those kanji have never appeared in a manga.

>retention rate suddenly dropped from the usual ~85% (which I've had consistently for months) to ~80%

なに the fuck?

My >80 retention on matures dropped to 73 yesterday, despite overall retention being almost 90%. Shit happens, yo.

Aniki might be gone, but Anki will outlive you.

Do your reps, even in grief. He believed in you.

if you want to "learn" japanese the autismo way then that's your kind of thing

Here's some reading practice, by the way, written by Hiroshima Gookmoot:
hiro.asks.jp/100252.html

Why do you guys follow retention rate? Even if you only retain 50%, at least every day if you see 20 new cards you will still gain 10 new vocab in the long run. That's still a gain in my book

The reasoning is not so simple. Missing 50 out of 100 reviews doesn't mean you learned 50 words, it just means you remember them for now. You can still fail them when they show up 3, 6 months from now. I've been getting a lot of 1y+ cards wrong lately, although seeing them with my current accumulated knowledge makes it way more easy to relearn and probably to retain - lots of new patterns to recognize the words.

All in all I just look at my retention as a means to measure my daily performance, I don't let it discourage me.

japanese people sure like to throw around the word ブス like rice at a wedding
very rude culture

How do I register for the JLPT in July?
The jlpt site is so confusing

Wtf anki has to be the shittiest way to learn this language
>go to anki deck
>"hmm, let's see what my new cards are for today"
>come across this card:
>タイプライター (typewriter)
>somehow, this is more important to know than the word "floor"
Whoever assembled this deck is a massive retard

ankitards absolutely devastated
this is why i only use scientifically proven methods like duolingo

Where are you trying to take it? If I recall correctly, America doesn't offer July tests.

youtube.com/watch?v=kq7O6eR12oM
Probably the fastest speaking anime I've ever heard

Sounds like a bad deck and not bad software. Is this the deck recommended in the thread guide?
>duolingo
Stop trolling

Thank you for your input. Don't forget to jump off a bridge.

Oh it doesn't?
So just japan has it in july?

ワタシはワラウした。

I have a problem I can't hook the text with ITH or ithvnr

ITHVNR works fine.

I downloaded another version and now it works fine, thank you for the recommendation, it looks fun.

first month done lads, will i make it?

「パンツ見えてますよ、
あなたはそれでいいんですか?」

という意味です
後半を省略してかわりに?をつけたのです

>more than 600
Yes.
>1 suspended
Undo that, fiddle with your leeches so they just get tagged and nothing else.

>plsnobully
Post that leech, then I'll decide.

not people but men
japanese men often like to say ブス
because they are 野蛮人

didnt even see, thanks lads

この場合

「笑いました」「笑った」

のほうがいいですね

それとも皮肉をこめて

「笑わせるなよxD」
「笑わせてもらったxD」

でもいいですね

>それとも皮肉をこめて
>「笑わせるなよxD」
>「笑わせてもらったxD」
勉強になった、ありがとう。

jisho.org/search/牽 #kanji
>dat stroke order

冗談だよ、デゥオリンゴはクソ下手だからな。
でも気は心、ありがとう。

>Is this the deck recommended in the thread guide?
Yes. What a surprise, listening to Sup Forums was a mistake once again

Very good. Meanwhile I'm over here with 1300 done, 50 leeches and I have been studying for like 6 months now

どういたしまして
you're welcome

>throw around the word ブス like rice at a wedding
Are you Asian (or of Asian descent)?

>needing anki for katakana transcriptions
brainlet

Pretty common in the West, afaik as I know.

Just saw the japanese borrowed a german word "arbeit" for アルバイト. Is it common with loanwords that do not have english roots?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms
My favorite is ランドセル. Sounds like a fucking Pokemon

トランセル is Metapod I think.

What about 音読み? Are those not technically all loan words?

I had this OP fuck in mind but yeah トランセル is close as well

>ロンパリ
Lon(don) + Paris
slang for Strabismus (crosseyed, wandering eye), derived from the image of one eye looking toward London, and the other eye looking toward Paris

M I N E D

On that subject, why did some Pokemon localize word for word and others don't?
Like why wasn't a Pidgey just called ポッポ, it's not like the name doesn't suit it. If they were consistent with it I woudn't care but it's all over the place.

Can't say for sure but Pidgeotto is ピジョン and Pidgeot is ピジョット so I guess they wanted ポッポ to rhyme.

I guess so. I don't really want to dissect all Pokemon but I'm really not satisfied with the answer.

I got adopting Pokemon instead of Pocket Monsters though.

You probably won't ever get a satisfactory answer. My assumption is that localization was done by a team and the work was partitioned so some people chose to keep things as they were, some chose to go with rhyming, some decided that names like Okorizaru would've sounded too foreign for children, etc.

It extends really to a lot of different media that I used to watch/play
Whoever was in charge thought we were dumb I guess

>Will never get to witness the concerns of teachers watching the kids at school walk around talking about Okorizaru and Poppo's

imo we cant really consider chinese loanwords together with the western ones. It would be like comparing the germanic roots of the norwegian language with the english loanwords we adopted in modern times. Without 音読み the language would not work

ランドセル
yes, it comes from Dutch "ransel", it's common to add a "t" or "d" between an "n" and an "s", see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epenthesis
The Japanese names are originally created with a Japanese name (in katakana) and a Trademarked name (in the Latin alphabet and most of the time is just a transliteration of the Japanese name). If a Pokemon name is not the same as those two it's basically because the localization team (in the case for English by Nintendo of America) didn't think it was good for the audience.

>>Will never get to witness the concerns of teachers watching the kids at school walk around talking about Okorizaru and Poppo's
I'm extending into an area where I can't make claims with any verifiable certainty but it was probably just to make it as accessible as possible. Sure there people who would've latched onto the exoticism of a less liberal localization but it's not something they (evidently) couldn't live without. On the other hand, Nintendo of America wouldn't want to repel normalfags with the stench of something too unfamiliar. Like how Youkai Watch wasn't big here at all despite being (from what I've heard) very popular in Japan.

The only reason Pikachu isn't called Boltrat is the voice actress for it is too protagonistic to just ditch and replace with some shitty American redub.

Dunno. I inferred that rice-related cultural stuff must've come from Asia (or at most southern Mediterranean) because of commonality and the range on where it is farmed pre-modern times.

and also, almost all Pokemons have different names in the French language and German language editions respectively, meanwhile the Italian language and Spanish language (Mexico and Spain) just use the names in the English language versions, and also for the English releases in Europe Nintendo of Europe just decided to use the names already by Nintendo of America.

>ポッポ
in this specific case I think Nintendo of America though that ポッポ sounded too much like "poop" perhaps? or maybe because ポポ was already used in DB and they sounds exactly the same when uttered in English and other languages without reduplication? I don't know, again those decisions in the end devlove upon Nintendo of America and the other localization teams.

Glad I asked, I wonder how many long meetings and money devoted to naming ポッポ to Pidgey now. I imagine they must have some streamlined process

Can't answer for other countries, but in Brazil it's a pretty common crop because of plain places with abundant water.
youtube.com/watch?v=xuBFwq-7W-w

I'm pretty sure there is some executive overview as to what sounds cute enough, but in terms of deepness, I don't think it goes too far. Most names are just painfully obvious on their meanings, sometimes even lazy.
As a Portuguese speaker it was no problem, everything sounded foreigner and cool, but as an English speaker I would probably have sperged out at these shitty names.

>I wonder how many long meetings and money devoted to naming ポッポ to Pidgey now
Probably didn't take long for someone to say "Hey, lets take the common sound from the other two names (Pidge) and stick a 'y' at the end so it sounds cutesy like diminutives usually do"

>we cant really consider chinese loanwords together with the western ones
why not? loanwords are loanwords no matter the language
>It would be like comparing the germanic roots of the norwegian language with the english loanwords we adopted in modern times
It wouldn't be the same because Japanese and Chinese are not even part of the same language family
>Without 音読み the language would not work
why not I mean as you said you can always rely on your language roots to create new words or equivalents, that's what Icelandic, Korean and other eastern European languages did, even Japanese has done this before for example "electricity" used to be " エレキシテイト" but since the Meiji restoration is called now "電気"

icelandic was already a "complete" language before it got seperated from the rest of scandinavia, but the japanese did not have a written language so they borrowed characters and meanings from china iirc.
A nations language is always gonna be effected by the cultural powerhouse of the time and since japanese was such a young language i would say the chinese infulence is the groundwork for the language, not an addon like the english words are today. sry if my thinking is dumb

>loanwords are loanwords no matter the language
But that's not right in Japanese. Words of old or middle Chinese origin are 漢語 and are viewed as fully assimilated parts of the language, unlike words from elsewhere which are considered 外来語 and seen as describing foreign concepts. Old and middle Chinese have a special relationship with Japanese that no other language has.

Your thinking is not wrong nor dumb and I actually agreed with it, it makes sense for Japanese (just like Korean and Vietnamese as well for instance, none of which are not Sino-Tibetan languages) to have a lot of loanwords from Chinese because of the constant and intensive contact with it, but maybe a better analogy would have been how languages such as Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian have a lot of loanwords and coined terms coming from Latin and Ancient Greek.
What I disagree with is with things like this
>not an addon like the english words are today
The situation of modern borrowing in Japanese coming from Western languages is not really sociolinguistically different than from other languages in other times, they are not just addons, sometimes they can take foreign words and adapt it to mean something different to what the original word meant, or sometimes the same, or sometimes for an object that didn't really exists where the language was spoken.
Yes, but the 漢語-外来語 distinction is a distinction made in the Japanese language, not in general Linguistics, for example some literal loanwords in Japanese (like "南瓜") are seen as 漢語 even though they are loanwords, meanwhile some Chinese words like "ラーメン" are seen as 外来語 even though they are Chinese and even sometimes words like "ガードマン" are seen also as 外来語 even though they are Japanese coinages.