Nationalism and Patriotism

I have always been proud of my country (inb4 muh debts muh poverty) but logicaly, being proud of something you did not choose or work for has no basis. Why do we feel a sense of pride for our nation when we haven't contributed anything to be part of it?

Your ancestors contributed to it, and you continue to do so.

>your ancestors contributed to it
Exactly, my ancestors

It's also being proud of your forefathers and what they've accomplished to get you where you are, while at the same time working to keep what they've done there. If you're not nationalist, then you simply allow invaders to walk in and regress it back with their values. Nationalism is about standing up for your country and it's values, whom you may not have fought for, but enjoy. Good cultures shouldn't die with the people who made it.

That's shallow you're right. Nevertheless you inherit a certain culture and patriotism can work as a motivator to improve your country

wtf i hate my country now.

>If you're not nationalist, then you simply allow invaders to walk in and regress it back with their values.
No. You don't have to love your country in order to not let in millions of unskilled worthless immigrants. You just don't want YOUR standard of living to get worse.

You get a few skilled muslim immigrants in, they petition for sharia law, nobody gives a shit because your standard of living don't get worse, you now have sharia. Congratulations you now live with sharia law. Selfishness is not a good way to govern a country. Tyrants have made things better before they made things worse after all.

> your standard of living don't get worse, you now have sharia
So forcing all women to wear burkas at all time, not allowing girls to go to school and many more doesn't worsen my standard of living?

Nope, not at all. Infact it may better your standard of living as we have less students to teach which may be sold to you as less tax dollars being spent on teachers.

That's because you haven't yet been explained the difference between pride for one's actions, and pride for one's nation/nationality/whatever. Taking pride for something you had no part in is, of course, dumb, but that's not what this is in this case.

National pride is equal parts responsibility and gratitude. You can be proud of an accomplishment of your father, not because you had a hand in it, but because you come from the same place. That piece of greatness is in you, and it's your responsibility to live up to it. It's not about lording over others arrogantly, it's about living up to those who came before you and trying to meet or surpass their accomplishments. You can feel the same way about your home town, sports team or even country.

That's what having pride in one's nation is, and it is purely a healthy, natural thing.

Unless you're Serbian.

So what if I'm a girl or have a daughter or I'm not completely misogynistic like 90% of the population of a western country? My standard of living isn't worsened?

wtf I'm a patriot now

Because you need to belong somewhere to feel at home.

Patriotism isn't the same as nationalism, mind. It's more what people call 'civic-nationalism' these days.

This. The two can intertwine aswell; I'm proud of my girlfriend when she achieves something in part because my support aided her in her goals and in part because she is bettering her half of our unit. The same can be seen on a macro level when a town wins a flower show (dumb example but w/e) that you participated in; not only is your small contribution recognised but the community that you belong to is being elevated to a higher level.

One of the worst things the ((((((media)))))) has done is stigmatize pride; it's a beautiful emotion when it's pure.

>You don't have to love your country

If you don't love your country, what reason do you have to live in it?

The pride and love for your country is needed to create a positive community. This positivity would spread to nearly all aspects of your everyday life. Instead today, we get people/work slaves filled with apathy and nihilism... You often become like the people surrounding you if you don't cut them off. Imagine living in a highly nationalistic society where everybody would be encouraging to their fellow citizens. It would be a complete different life experience.

Instead most people don't even know the name of their neighbor.

So you're now caring about the values your forefathers have fought for? the rights of women, the freedom of your daughters? Sounds nationalist to me m8.
No your standard of living won't be worsened unless you're a women, infact some women may even choose to agree, as wasting money on clothes and the like will no longer be a issue.
Without nationalism you're a majority of men away from sharia, or a change in culture that is regressive but good in the short term. Given that the wast majority of refugees are men and that only nationalistic MEN are fighting against it, you, living under sharia is not unlikely at all. In-fact it is almost guaranteed. Look at European women and what they are doing, welcome refugees and who is against it? Nationalistic men.

... And you continue to do so. Maybe you are one of the layabouts, but there are others contributing to it that are apart of your generation, too. Our forefathers struggled to make the country wealthy, functioning, and easier to live in. The easier life is a product of their labour. And saying that because you don't have to work as hard as they are makes you somehow non contributing and therefore you have no reason to be proud of your country is pretty fucking autistic, unreasonable, and self destructive, son.

If you had worked hard producing something to profit and paid taxes for it, you are contributing something into it.

A sense of pride for a country is not derived from whether or not you contributed anything, but it is a pride in the virtues the country is supposed to represents. The more closely a country represents its virtues, the more pride one should feel. When a country is in decline, going against its virtues, because we want it to represent its virtues, those who are at least subconsciously aware of what's going on, who feel even the smallest bit of pride seek to see their country in the greatest of its virtue so that others may see how great one's country's virtues are and feel pride for it by living according to those virtues.

And why are they against it? They have everything to gain from a Muslim society, as it favors men. It is the irrational, yet the ideals my forefathers fought for is the best way to rule a country long term, but not short term. And egoism favors short term. way to many women vote against their own best interest you see this with the refugee crises, voting for socialist things, praising the welcome of refugees. If you didn't have people who cares about what our forefathers fought for and would rather fight for a new system that is better short term, what incentive would there be to keep it the way it are?
You as a Greek person should know about short term and long term consequences with all your debt.

I am against it but I do not view myself as a nationalist. Going back to my first argument, not letting in millions of undocumented (possibly terrorists), primitive sandniggers is purely for egoistical reasons. Of course a nationalist is opposed to the "refuge" welcoming for the reasons you stated but an "egoist" such myself is opposed to that for different reasons(standard of living etc)

Patriotism is being attached to your country and defend what your ancestors built and transmitted to you, it is about defending their honors too, if you don't do it nobody will.

All of us are just a moment in the history of our countries, I would feel deeply ashamed if France fell in my lifetime or regressed, that's why I hate "citizens of the world" and other rootless fuckers, they are ungrateful, they think the country they live in is an happy accident and don't understand that millions of people died to bring them their secure and prospere little lifes in which they can enjoy comforts, rights and cutting edge technological progress.

You seem to think there are only unskilled Muslims. They're not. If you have a nation that wants to change their culture every generation under the irrational reason of "meh I didn't fight for this" what the minority of skilled Muslim population will sell, is bound to come. unless a dictatorship comes first. Being a nationalist is completely logical if you think your culture is better than their culture.

Being free, and not having a dictatorship is not a once but never again issue, it is a battle that is fought every generation, and it's thanks to nationalism we're able to keep dictators or islamofacists from dictating our policies.

Americans are pledging alliance to the constitution. if someone came along and said "lets add an exception to the first amendment saying you can't insult religion" without nationalism people who think "I am not negatively affected by this and I don't care why my forefathers put this here, yay I fought for something" And these small things will start to add up.

Oh and why would they not care? because they're selfish and they once dealt with a guy saying bad things about religion on the street and it was slightly annoying for them.

Islam is an ideology with no virtues. It is one based purely upon mysticism and will lead to a country where one is stoned for reading books that aren't the Quran, libraries burned, and the destruction of all the fundamental values of the west. They have everything to lose from Islam. It appeals to the worst of human nature. It removes the philosophical work one has to do with other religions, such as Christianity, and replaces it with kill the infidel, kill the apostate, and die in the process, else Allah may decide to throw you in hell on a whim.

Egoism can contain distinctions between rational and irrational egoism. Rational Egoism is what one considers best for themselves in the long term. Often this is consistent with a good society. Irrational egoism is doing what is fun on a whim or voting for free shit with no thought.

This could be compared to Master and Slave morality.
Rational Egoism is the Master Morality and Irrational Egoism is the Slave Morality. Unfortunately, whether collectivistic or individualistic, most people are characteristically slaves and will ultimately be a destructive force on societies regardless of what are the fundamental values of a society.

Guess you can never be proud of your father or mother, brother or sister, or even your dog for learning a new trick.

Islam also brings a kind of nationalism and belonging. And as such, a world without nationalism will easily be taken over for a culture with it.

>Rational Egoism is the Master Morality and Irrational Egoism is the Slave Morality. Unfortunately, whether collectivistic or individualistic, most people are characteristically slaves and will ultimately be a destructive force on societies regardless of what are the fundamental values of a society.

Which is why certain empires fall after X number of generations, people forget what their forefathers fought for and simply want change for changes sake.

Third way feminism perhaps is the best way to illustrate this point.
"what do we want? equal pay! you already have it. no we don't!"

They're making up issues to be outraged about, while welcoming a shitty religion for no other reason to be oppressed or to bring change

>we haven't contributed anything to be part of it?

that's the key, patriotic people actually do

this is only a conundrum for the kind of useless NEETS on here who have never contributed anything to society before but still want the ego boost of patriotism anyway

You share the genes and the culture with your countrymen. If you respect yourself, and are proud of yourself, you should also respect and be proud of your nation.

1. If you think you are good enough to make children, you obviously value your genes. The very genes shared by those around you. If you don't value your genes, you should never have children.

2. If you respect your thoughts, values and habits, you respect your culture. And that culture is shared by those around you as well. If you don't value your thoughts, why should anyone listen to you, and why do you even open your mouth?

Logic and nationalism go hand in hand.

There are no Greeks left anymore, you're all just Turkish rape babies. You're a conquered people, to compare ancient Greeks with modern Greece would be like comparing the Romans with modern Italians.

Nationalism is not pride for the accident of your life but rather love for the conditions under which you live. A country isn't just a set of arbitrary lines on a map, an artificial identity foisted upon you at birth, but is rather the power of an entity -- perhaps a people, perhaps a nation -- to enforce it's laws over a territory, laws which are the result of a particular historical line of development unique among all the people of the earth. In this sense, a country is a way of life maintained by and for a people in a certain geographic location at a point in time.

Nationalism is the understanding that this way of life, this sovereignty over a territory, the result of this particular unique historical development, is both fragile, precious, and something to be protected and loved.

Nationalism is also the recognition that there are other such people, such lines of development throughout the world, and that those can and should be respected as well. Nationalism isn't only for one people but for all kinds of people and it is what creates the diversity of this earth, which we seem to be hell bent on destroying.